breeding for terpenes

[Sam_Skunkman]

I understood him in a way that the F1 between two stable lines will be homogeneous in appearance. That means there will be (hypothetically) only one pheno-/chemotype. What you, Sam, mean is heterozygous (genotype), no?

Yes, I did mean genotype. I thought it was used both ways?

heterogeneous condition is one where the same disease or condition can be caused, or contributed to, by several factors. In the case of genetics, varying different genes or alleles.

I do use the wrong words all the time, I am a bit Dyslectic, what can I say? I do know what I mean!
-SamS

 

[FLAgreenthumb]

Well, glad we got all that straightened out...lol

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I was nit-picking. You were correct also the F1 would be more "homogenous" meaning looking all the same, not genetically.
Yes, you are correct about the Lao/Afghani.
-SamS


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_heterogenous_and_homogenous_chromosomes

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14652818

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0046817703004817

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homogeneity_and_heterogeneity

It was...lol I thought homogenous meant the characteristics of the parents would be evenly distributed and the plants would all be similar..lol I feel dumb! hahaha thanks for the education Sam..
I understand that the more different the parents are, ie a laos mother and an afghani or pakastani father, the more similar the F1's will be as well as exhibiting more hybrid vigour. Is that correct? also would you be kind enough to explain to me the actual meaning of the terms homogenous and heterogenous? Thanks bro

 

[FLAgreenthumb]

Its cool brother.... its all in good fun

 

[FLAgreenthumb]

Hey, I have a question for you Sam.... I read this article that was an interview w/ DJ Short...
and he said it was best to use a sativa female x male Indica.... I know the cross would come out differently by reversing the momma x poppa... but can you explain why one would be better than the other? or would it?

 

[Betterhaff]

I said to self the F1's on a population level (to make f2's) not a plant level which would make the F1's, selfed S1's.
Understand? You could also do it by taking the F1's and selfing one and making S1 seeds from a F1 seed.
-SamS

Understood, thanks for the clarification. I read it as selfing an F1 individual.

 

[FLAgreenthumb]

sorry if im pestering you, I have been growing for awhile, not nearly as long as a lot of people here but like 22 or so years, but I have never attempted any type of breeding project till now, and Im excited...lol I really want to create something special, and the chance to pick your brain a little is a hell of an opportunity... anyway thanks for taking the time to answer my questions bro...

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Hey, I have a question for you Sam.... I read this article that was an interview w/ DJ Short...
and he said it was best to use a sativa female x male Indica.... I know the cross would come out differently by reversing the momma x poppa... but can you explain why one would be better than the other? or would it?

Ask him, if he has a reason or not.
If the Sativas (NLD) were all real consistant, and the Indicas (WLD) were all very consistant, I am not sure if there is a difference if you use the Male or Female of either.
Normally I use the males I know very well, I can put him on any female I see and I like. I first transform my new males to female via ethephon so I have a real good idea of their potential with Cannabinoids and terpene profile. Then I might breed with them if I liked them. Or use them to make hundreds of crosses and grow out all the progeny, that is the best of course. But it takes years....
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

FYI

FYI

FYI,
#1
? I will find

#2
http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/60/13/3715.full
Identification of candidate genes affecting {Delta}9-tetrahydrocannabinol biosynthesis in Cannabis sativa -- Marks et al. Journal of experimental Botany Vol. 60, No. 13, pp 3715-3726, 2009

#3
http://www.gwpharm.com/cultivation.aspx


Also interesting
Secondary metabolism in cannabis
Isvett Josefina Flores-Sanchez Æ Robert Verpoorte
Published online: 8 April 2008Phytochem Rev (2008) 7:615–639
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11101-008-9094-4

 

[BagAppeal]

Dear Sam

When you say you transform the males to female via ethephon. could you include the specifics on how this is done. Have you used ethephon for females as well?

All the best

BagAppeal

 

[Mate Dave]

^^ Sam has a thread on how to transform males to females. Read it.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Dear Sam

When you say you transform the males to female via ethephon. could you include the specifics on how this is done. Have you used ethephon for females as well?

All the best

BagAppeal

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597&highlight=transforming+males+female

It only works to make females from males.
-SamS

 

[MJPassion]

I was nit-picking. You were correct also the F1 would be more "homogenous" meaning looking all the same, not genetically.
Yes, you are correct about the Lao/Afghani.
-SamS


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_heterogenous_and_homogenous_chromosomes

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14652818

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0046817703004817

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homogeneity_and_heterogeneity

I believe the correct term would be "uniform" because, as you mentioned previously, there are no "homozygous" F1s.

Terminology realy is important when trying to distinguish between characteristics being spoken of.
Uniformity is, as far as I can tell, dominant genes expressing themselves & masking the recessives.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Sorry for my hijacking... LoL
'Homogeneous' (syn. homogenous) is absolutely correct and has nothing to do with homozygous. If I'm not mistaken, it means the same as 'uniform', just that the linguistic roots are different (Latin v.s. Greek).
Uniformity refers to phenotypical characteristics whereas terms like 'dominant' are expressions from genetics. Besides, homogeneity or a single phenotype (regarding one expression) can result from several possible 'mixtures' of dominant, co-dominant/intermediate, and recessive traits. Therefore, I wouldn't mix up the different terminologies...

 

[bambi]

using plants with very few terpene's.

using plants with very few terpene's.

Been meaning to share my own experience with regards to bringing out the terpenes/aroma's from one parent plant into the other or first f/1 cross seed, how to best express one parents terpenes/flavors/aroma's)

In 2006 I was still in the experimental stage of breeding finding out whats works best or what doesn't work well,

I was working with a light green 2004 afghanni/num1 that had very few Aroma's etc coming off of the flowers through its whole flowering stage and dried the flavour was quite bland or pretty much flavour'less, a slight hash taste was about it really,
other terpene smells coming off the stalks and leaves were desirable though and had the makings or traits I wanted from it,

My farther plant was a Lavender skunk male from breeder Refferman,
my male didn't have a overpowering smell of lavender but it was apparent in flower, how could I best express this lavender smell was a concern I had no real clues for at the time and went with my gut instinct hoping the cross resulted in a lavender smell or both flavour to,
Thinking my Afghan num/1 might be a good choice as it may carry over more of the terpene profile off its dad since the mum Affie had very little aroma's etc etc,

The end result was quite a good one yes, the cross result with most seeds tested was a very strong over powering lavender perfume stink, and the dried buds were of lavender flavour with skunk, I kept this in mind up till the next time id try the same or similar thing again in 2011 making a new hybrid with the same goal in mind,

To cut the story short the end result ive had this time round is fantastic also, my mother plant was a old super skunk mother with the classic strong perfume smell in the flowers, my farther plant was a very bland skunk with virtualy no flavours but a deep skunk really,

The results were many different aroma's and flavours, fruity/coconut/nice cleanser smells/perfumes/ yet not all plants had this carry into the end result for flavours, they do now after the selection process of new generation seed,

please remember these examples are Just my findings and not in any way a claim of that's how it works for all marijuana varietys, simply results of my own with 2 different varietys to date.

buds speed - b

 

[Johnnyseed]

the breeding information on this thread is phenomenal. Great read.

 

[MiMedicineMan]

Hey hijack away I missed the party obviously

 

[Dropped Cat]

Three tomatoes are walking down the street pappa tomato, mamma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooshes him... and says, "Catch up"

 

[Matt8800]

I don't believe cannabinoids and terpenes are an either/or. LED lighting brings out the terpenes better according to side by side comparisons (and has been my experience). I believe LEDs are great for pheno selection when it comes to smell and taste.

 

[Nirrity]

THC and terpenes.

THC and terpenes.

Hi Sam.
I understand it is rather extensive topic but could you please explain shortly how do major terpenes modulate/modify the THC to create “high”?
There are so many articles on how this terpene is anti-inflammatory and that terpene is anxyolitic etc., but I have yet to see any solid scientific insight into how things really are. I understand that
*plain thc is flat and boring
*each strain has its own unique terpene profile which contributes to the effect of a said strain
but I have no idea which terpene do what and how do they possibly interact with each other. Do I need high myrcene variety? Or high terpinolene variety? Which terpenes contribute to thought-provoking introspective character of many NLDs? Yet why some other NLDs are social and extravert without anxiety/paranoia?
Specifically, if I am looking for euphoric relaxing anxiety-free variety without heavy comedown/burnout and slow tolerance build up what the terpenes profile would look like based of your findings? Or at least which terpenes are better be avoided and which are right for that type of high?