Breeding for beginners

[Londinium]

Maybe I will review the whole thread again and make comments, but it is a lot of work and I don't want to get shit for it. Anyone interested?-SamS

I also wish you would Sam as there is a lot of half truth being thrown around(not just here!) and simple stuff like 'Steer clear of Hermaphrodites','How to pick a good male? and 'What happens in F1,F2,F3etc?' should be sorted out for Keen beginners b4 they are confused further with complex info....And if the info comes from you and other experienced breeder's Sam,then It's more readily accepted as fact!
'Good crosser's/Intermediates' as I would class myself,could be of much use to beginners..but only with help and editing from the most experienced amongst us, or half-truths and 'I think so's' get furthered as gospel.
Crossers of today could be Great breeders of tomorrow!(But won't be if steered off course repeatedly b4 they get to F2 of thier first project).When I started growing at 18 I was taken under the wing of 3 older growers /Project breeders who put me in good stead with all the basics b4 I attempted any further Breeding research myself.
I also value the feel for plants (male and female) that helping in their Room's and Glasshouse gave me in addition to just working my own little room(even carrying buckets of water and endless labelling and checking).Probably more so than any knowledge I've read since from Learned individual's. I think the point I'm trying to make is You can't beat 1st hand experience crossing plant's and if you are lucky enough to have wise guidance and experience of a breeding community big or small as well then that's even better IMHO.
Treated properly a forum like this can make 'newbies' feel part of a community that nurtures and guides them positively towards being better crossers/breeders without the need for future 'PollenChucker's' at all........And wouldn't that be a better world for the future of our Dearest Plant?
Great passion in this thread but not enough co-hesion.
May the Sun shine on all your garden's and May All your crosses be Gold! JBo

 

[Bumble Buddy]

Maybe I will review the whole thread again and make comments, but it is a lot of work and I don't want to get shit for it. Anyone interested?

-SamS

This thread is sort of crapped up IMO and it shouldn't be a sticky. Maybe it'd be better to start a new breeding for newbies thread? Heck yea though, legitimate scraps of info in any form or thread are appreciated.

(As an aside, I've spent the past month reading many of your posts and I'd suggest you try and ignore the shit flingers whenever possible, it's pretty amazing what some of those monkies can come up with but that stuff can take up a lot of time it seems. Correcting misinformation and revisionist history are sometimes necessary I guess, but its easy to get dragged into that trough of negativity, there are many more searching for and asking about pertinent/legitimate info.)

 

[Londinium]

(As an aside, I've spent the past month reading many of your posts and I'd suggest you try and ignore the shit flingers whenever possible, it's pretty amazing what some of those monkies can come up with but that stuff can take up a lot of time it seems. Correcting misinformation and revisionist history are sometimes necessary I guess, but its easy to get dragged into that trough of negativity, there are many more searching for and asking about pertinent/legitimate info.)

Well said BumbleBuddy It will be Beyond a shame if we lose all the benefits we gain from having Sam S and all the other experienced Breeder's and grower's here to guide us bcos of the few Idiots who don't realise what they owe these Innovator's in the first place. If someone wishes to become an expert at 'Anything' it is usually wise to understand it's history first b4 auto-discrediting everything said by Wiser Breeder's than One's self.
Too many useful teacher's scared away from otherwise excellent threads by the 'Oneupmanship' of Jealous 'I wish I was there' fool's! JBo

 

[crawdad]

dude...never mind my question...I will sit back..shut up...and learn...dumb question anyway..

sorry to barge in...

crawdad

 

[glasspackedbowl]

Question I had a female go threw a bad drought period when I checked it at the spot it popped some male flowers. Would the seeds from this plant be all female or would there be male seeds.It was a deep chunk cross so the strian was well bread before.

female

 

[glasspackedbowl]

Question:MENDEL's first law is the principle of uniformity. It says that, if two plants that differ in just one trait are crossed, then the resulting hybrids will be uniform in the chosen trait.
How does the plant know what the chosen trait is?
If I have a fem (A) Skunk #1 that has Pinnate leaves and is kind of lanky....and I have a (B)skunk#1 that has webbed leaves and is branchy
if I cross the (A) with a (C) Haleys Comet that is tall and bushy (male) will I get some pure (C), some pure (A), some pure (B) and some with (A)X(b)X(C) and on and on and on?
I read the begininng of the post and missed the part about "Selecting for a trait"....I am not trying to be a smart aXX just cant understand that part of the statement..
No plant has just one trait.
thanksCrawdad

Sorry dude, its been a while since i have been in here. Let me address ur issues.
Yeah if your looking for some medium plants from the a. and c. and u cross them, you will have a few a.'s a few c.'s and some a-c's and c-a's.

 

[glasspackedbowl]

what do you say...?

i like ur idea. Maybe make a second thread to me pinned and start with ur
homozygous points

 

[crawdad]

Hi,
Thanks for the reply GPB...I appreciate your help...i figured that is what the rule was saying and that is good to know and here is why...

I got some females from some strains I have....and I got some males from the same strains...the problem is...i got only males from some strains...(go figure)...anyway...I was thinking that if I could cross the males of the strain where I only got males...I could somehow preserve the strain (that may not make sense) in other words...If I got 20 beans from A X C, then out of that batch I should get a TRUE C?

I know I may be getting ahead of my expertise here but I figured I could cheat a little by piggy backing off some other folks experience...

I bought some good strains from SENSI SEEDS and NIRVANA and am trying to figure out how to use the all the pollen I have and Skunk #1 and Big Bud IBL to do some experimenting...I like to have a nice stash of good seeds...I can always go buy more and I will but I like to experiment and see the results..

It looks as if Sam is going to give us some of his expert advice on this great the you started...

thank you again and hope to see you around...

crawdad

 

[BROKENFINGERS]

Thanks Glasspackedbowl thats what I thought the seeds would be. The plants from those seeds popped some pre flowers and will be used as mothers for this year.Someday I'll take the time to sit down and read this thread so I understand better but my mental lazyness and lack of time has got the best of me. heres a picture of a male from the strian.

 

[texsativa]

Sorry dude, its been a while since i have been in here. Let me address ur issues.
Yeah if your looking for some medium plants from the a. and c. and u cross them, you will have a few a.'s a few c.'s and some a-c's and c-a's.

If you cross plant A with plant B, the chance of finding seeds that are pure A is slim to none, emphasis more towards none. You might see some F1s that have traits plant A has though...

 

[Full Melt Bob]

Maybe I will review the whole thread again and make comments, but it is a lot of work and I don't want to get shit for it.

That pisses me off when people like you that know about breeding and that are respected in the community don't voice their opinion while all these hyped up hacks that come out with a new strain every other month do irreversible damage to the gene pool.

 

[Possum]

i think a beginning breeders thread should be about the physical mechanics of the process...

sexing plants.

when to polinate females?

how do U collect male pollen?

how to store pollen?

how to pollinate females?

how long to go to produce viable seed?

good seed care info?

______________

then stuff like

Selection and Inherited traits (EXAMPLES of dominance/recession - like articles on inherited potency).

examples in the current market for certain traits (e.g. blue color, flower time, glandular resin coating, potency, etc.)

fixing traits and breeding strategy.

_______________________

all female seeds/silver thione

auto flowers (ruderalis strains)

______________________


then threads on Real Life EXAMPLES of breeding showing the parents and the offspring and the tracing of phenotypes.

the theorhetical info is great, but really only for academics and only boggs down a true how to thread geared at helping out the home grower make the most of his/her purchases.

2 cents,

P

 

[glasspackedbowl]

If you cross plant A with plant B, the chance of finding seeds that are pure A is slim to none, emphasis more towards none. You might see some F1s that have traits plant A has though...

actually laws of numbers means you will get about 50% hybrid(if these are IBL's) 25%a and 25%b. But they wont be clones of a and b, so to find that b you want you would need to back cross the 2 closest b plants with the most traits of the plant/strain your preserving, together.

 

[texsativa]

If you cross plant A with plant B, the chance of finding seeds that are pure A is slim to none, emphasis more towards none. You might see some F1s that have traits plant A has though...

actually laws of numbers means you will get about 50% hybrid(if these are IBL's) 25%a and 25%b. But they wont be clones of a and b.

That's exactly what I said.

EDIT: What I meant saying slim to none, don't ever count out mother nature...but probable, no, not at all.

 

[Full Melt Bob]

actually laws of numbers means you will get about 50% hybrid(if these are IBL's) 25%a and 25%b. But they wont be clones of a and b, so to find that b you want you would need to back cross the 2 closest b plants with the most traits of the plant/strain your preserving, together.

No you will get 100% hybrids regaurdless if outward expressions lean to one side or the other.

 

[texsativa]

No you will get 100% hybrids regaurdless if outward expressions lean to one side or the other.

100% of F1s will be hybrid, consisting of 50%A, 50%B.

 

[Full Melt Bob]

consisting of 50%A, 50%B.

Not true
A true F1 hybrid can have many different phenotypes, maybe there will be a percentage around 50% where they lean towards one or the other parent and maybe there will will be a percentage around 50% that a particular trait shows but there will be much diversity in a F1, to much to lump into A and B

 

[texsativa]

Not true
A true F1 hybrid can have many different phenotypes, maybe there will be a percentage around 50% where they lean towards one or the other parent and maybe there will will be a percentage around 50% that a particular trait shows but there will be much diversity in a F1, to much to lump into A and B

I was referring to genotype, not phenotype.

 

[Full Melt Bob]

Still you would be wrong, you can't group the entire complex of traits into two groups in and F1 hybrid....you can only do that for individual traits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genotype
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenotype

 

[texsativa]

Still you would be wrong, you can't group the entire complex of traits into two groups in and F1 hybrid....you can only do that for individual traits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genotype
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenotype

I'm not grouping an entire complex of traits into two groups. I was referring to genotype. Half of the male's chromosomes combining with half of the mother's chromosomes to form a complete set of chromosomes.