Boron: The secret to getting more flowers

[Guest]

^^^your beating a dead horse sproutco. We've already established that Boron might be the secret to more flowers for field grown crops in boron depleted fields, or in boron sensitive fruit tree crops or pansies, but boron is not beneficial (in increased amounts as suggested by YOU) to indoor cannabis that is already being fed high quality complete fertilizers.

The only thing 'we' have firmly established, is that you're a scientifically incompetent high school graduate. Or high school dropout. And that you're too stupid to be embarrasseed after a reputation meltdown like the one we witnessed from your 'science' ''experiment''.

And, we've established it will well documented digital photos: from you, yourself.

Poser Central.

========================
The OTHER thing 'we' have ESTABLISHED, is that verite is the scientific equivalent of you: utterly devoid of even the sensibilities to be involved in science.

No discipline, no talent, no nothing: but a long and painful expose that he's chemistry illiterate.

=========================================
So what we know is
(1)You're too stupid to pour water out of ONE bucket, into TWO, and not fuck that up. We saw you in embarrassing detail in your 'pictures'.

(2)We know you're too stupid to be in a thread where there AREN'T a lot of pictures.

And, we know that even after a very close run for the 'asshole of the month' trolling expedition, you are still so stupid you don't realize the gravity of the gaff you made to the REAL scientists: like me, sproutco and others i AM SURE.

(3)We know that verite is as pathetic as any other undisciplined shit-in-a-bucket farmer.

that IS his nutrient regimen: a bucket of dirt with a little shit put into it: I saw the buckets, on his signature: he's a shit-farmer you can tell.

How? How stupid he is. Nobody's as stupid as an organic farmer.

Nobody.

There are, competent Organic farmers: growing in dirt means not having to manage nutrition, and slower growth so they can attend to their breeding activities. however, of the Organic Farmers, there aren't many who have the science to understand horticultural chemistry.

Not fuckin many. Organic farmers - particulary DIRT organic farmers- are the 'beverly hillbillies' of the growing world. Everbody knows it; everybody laughs their asses off at em, all the time.


Scientific incompetence is what they're known for,in forums: and you're no exception.

An utter dumbass; without an education; without a field of respectable expertise, without a fucking clue..

verite,

Let me show EVERYONE, the situation you have fallen into, by not going to school:

I seriously doubt that trying to derive elemental boron from borax is something a plant is even capable of. Borax itself is just a term to describe many different complex boron compounds, of which none of the uses for any borax compound is plant food.

And if there were a use for borax in plant food there surely would be some sort of notation on wikipedia or any other source on the internet besides the lone opinion of sproutco.

having seen some of the insipid drivel this little schmoozita has tried to pass as 'science talk' before, i knew right away he was a lying, stupid, sack of worm shit posing as an expert.)

So i decided to take her up on her challenge: i'd better go look up what she said.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
So i googled, 'Borax Fertilizer.'

Here's the VERY FIRST RETURN: roll to the bottom.

HERES RETURN #2 in the middle

Return # 4: yet more embarrasement; more crow to eat: middle for this one, and the next.

And, Result number 5

==============================================
Bam,
Bam,
Bam:

VERY, FIRST SEARCH:

Utter credibility meltdown: one documented by his own photos, the other by his bombastic bullshit lies about - in this case, Boron, but verite is a well practiced liar, about MANY aspects of horticultural chemistry. Which in the next few days i expect to have to document in long, hilarious, detail. You guys are gonna bust a gut when i show you some excerpts of what this twit has tried to pawn off as 'science'.

I guess you said it earlier when you said:

[ A pose by any other name is still a pose.]

And, you've definitely proven that. You're both posing as botanical peers.

==============================================
i don't know what your 'fields of expertise' supposedly are;(well, yes i do; we all do. You have none.) but i know the scientific method, (and you clowns aren't cuttin the mustard)

and i know the scientific mind. (dramatic letdown on that front, too: Nothing either of you say can be taken at face value. Every word: no matter how 'dramatic' (there's that ''Drama" thing again) must be checked up on. Skewed "tests" that would be laughable, even in China; bombastic, utterly uneducated proclamations like the ones we see highlighted above;

no credentials of any kind :

no agricultural schooling; no scientific discipline of at ANY level. Utterly ludicrous statements, made OVER and OVER:

against the things sproutco says?


Sproutco: his words i know, because they're the same words of horticulturalists all over the world. Identical: in scope, in depth; the measured, careful tone: all that speaks:

Professional.

Or you two shit-in-a bucket posers:

POSING, as 'scientific research' staff.

'Volunteer', no doubt.

Having seen what i put up here: would YOU pay for these two to run a greenhouse for you?

Being a lying, bombastic idiot isn't something you want on a resume.

Scientific FRAUDS are what Kokua and verite are:

frauds.
Lying through their teeth about the current state of hortucultural science; industry; LIES, about what consitutes decent - even HALF ASSED - scientific methods

Fraudulently BLITZING a scientific chemistry thread with simply more LIES, BULLSHIT, AND FAKE TESTING than most people care to wade through.

the botched and ludicrous experiment depriving the test plant of Phosphorus and Potassium: the two VERY substances that the Boron is supposed to aid, in the metabolism of;

The bombast and sheer stupidity of the things you've seen them BOTH say.

==============================================
PERFECTLY PLAINLY REFUTED
==============================================
proclaimations that make a snake oil peddler proud:

It's hilarious, just like it was when i did it to Radium and Babie Hughie: another pair of P.O.S.E.R.s who scattered like roaches, when the light came on. Those posts were getting deleted, re-edited, and just plain hidden, like it was a Tom DeLay staffers' party.

[ A pose by any other name is still a pose. ]

Yea: This, we can see.

FRAUDS:
whose every word is subject to being checked up on.

Just like i just did: and am going to do, again probably very soon:

and Shazzam! instant exposure as what they are:

POSERS claiming horticulture comprehension-

P.O.S.E.U.R. CENTRAL.

That's the 'dirt & shit in a bucket' ''nutritional expertise" we have here, trolling to their equally stupid gang of thugs' delight.

Yes, a poser by any other name, is STILL a poser.

Pose for the camera Kokua.

Pose for the quote and paste illumination of what YOU say:
compared to what the REAL experts say verite.

Credibility meltdown.


Credibility? you never HAD credibility.

You think it was easy to bend you over and rape you in front of this whole forum this time? This is only one thread. Just like this time: candy from an infant.

Just like next time: Rape, on a hilarious scale.


That a poser- by any other name- is just a fucking poser.

This, verite, Kokua: is demonstrably true.

 

[Guest]

HOLY CRAP Overgrow is Back!!!!!

HOLY CRAP Overgrow is Back!!!!!

This thread is starting to read like Overgrow!

I have to wander how long the bullsit will continue??

Chill out boys!

 

[sproutco]

I got a pm just today where this guy had figured his ferts in ppms. He wondered if his micros were low. I noticed that boron was .08 ppm in his fert plan. You need about .3 ppm for good plant growth. I suggested the hydro rate at 1.5x or about .225 ppm boron to boost his level up to this. Fert companies are scared of adding boron so you may end up with less than optimal levels especially if your ph is high or there is alot of calcium including use of dolomite lime a little too much.

 

[powdergreen]

if using borax handle with care....Risks Associated with Borax

Borax is natural, but that does not mean it is automatically safer for you or for 'the environment' than man-made chemicals. Although plants need boron, too much of it will kill them, so borax can be used as an herbicide. Borax may also be used to kill roaches, ants, and fleas. In fact, it is also toxic to people. Signs of chronic toxic exposure include red and peeling skin, seizures, and kidney failure. The estimated lethal dose (ingested) for adults is 15-20 grams; less than 5 grams can kill a child or pet. For this reason, borax should not be used around food. More commonly, borax is associated with skin, eye, or respiratory irritation. It is also important to point out that exposure to borax may impair fertility or cause damage to an unborn child.

Now, none of these risks mean that you shouldn't use borax. If you do a bit of research, you will find risks associated with all cleaning products, natural or man-made. However, you do need to be aware of product risks so that you can use those products properly. Don't use borax around food, keep it out of reach of children and pets, and make sure you rinse borax out of clothes and off of surfaces before use.

 

[mrwags]

The only thing 'we' have firmly established, is that you're a scientifically incompetent high school graduate. Or high school dropout. And that you're too stupid to be embarrasseed after a reputation meltdown like the one we witnessed from your 'science' ''experiment''.

And, we've established it will well documented digital photos: from you, yourself.

Poser Central.

========================
The OTHER thing 'we' have ESTABLISHED, is that verite is the scientific equivalent of you: utterly devoid of even the sensibilities to be involved in science.

No discipline, no talent, no nothing: but a long and painful expose that he's chemistry illiterate.

=========================================
So what we know is
(1)You're too stupid to pour water out of ONE bucket, into TWO, and not fuck that up. We saw you in embarrassing detail in your 'pictures'.

(2)We know you're too stupid to be in a thread where there AREN'T a lot of pictures.

And, we know that even after a very close run for the 'asshole of the month' trolling expedition, you are still so stupid you don't realize the gravity of the gaff you made to the REAL scientists: like me, sproutco and others i AM SURE.

(3)We know that verite is as pathetic as any other undisciplined shit-in-a-bucket farmer.

that IS his nutrient regimen: a bucket of dirt with a little shit put into it: I saw the buckets, on his signature: he's a shit-farmer you can tell.

How? How stupid he is. Nobody's as stupid as an organic farmer.

Nobody.

There are, competent Organic farmers: growing in dirt means not having to manage nutrition, and slower growth so they can attend to their breeding activities. however, of the Organic Farmers, there aren't many who have the science to understand horticultural chemistry.

Not fuckin many. Organic farmers - particulary DIRT organic farmers- are the 'beverly hillbillies' of the growing world. Everbody knows it; everybody laughs their asses off at em, all the time.


Scientific incompetence is what they're known for,in forums: and you're no exception.

An utter dumbass; without an education; without a field of respectable expertise, without a fucking clue..

verite,

Let me show EVERYONE, the situation you have fallen into, by not going to school:






having seen some of the insipid drivel this little schmoozita has tried to pass as 'science talk' before, i knew right away he was a lying, stupid, sack of worm shit posing as an expert.)

So i decided to take her up on her challenge: i'd better go look up what she said.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
So i googled, 'Borax Fertilizer.'

Here's the VERY FIRST RETURN: roll to the bottom.

HERES RETURN #2 in the middle

Return # 4: yet more embarrasement; more crow to eat: middle for this one, and the next.

And, Result number 5

==============================================
Bam,
Bam,
Bam:

VERY, FIRST SEARCH:

Utter credibility meltdown: one documented by his own photos, the other by his bombastic bullshit lies about - in this case, Boron, but verite is a well practiced liar, about MANY aspects of horticultural chemistry. Which in the next few days i expect to have to document in long, hilarious, detail. You guys are gonna bust a gut when i show you some excerpts of what this twit has tried to pawn off as 'science'.

I guess you said it earlier when you said:

And, you've definitely proven that. You're both posing as botanical peers.

==============================================
i don't know what your 'fields of expertise' supposedly are;(well, yes i do; we all do. You have none.) but i know the scientific method, (and you clowns aren't cuttin the mustard)

and i know the scientific mind. (dramatic letdown on that front, too: Nothing either of you say can be taken at face value. Every word: no matter how 'dramatic' (there's that ''Drama" thing again) must be checked up on. Skewed "tests" that would be laughable, even in China; bombastic, utterly uneducated proclamations like the ones we see highlighted above;

no credentials of any kind :

no agricultural schooling; no scientific discipline of at ANY level. Utterly ludicrous statements, made OVER and OVER:

against the things sproutco says?


Sproutco: his words i know, because they're the same words of horticulturalists all over the world. Identical: in scope, in depth; the measured, careful tone: all that speaks:

Professional.

Or you two shit-in-a bucket posers:

POSING, as 'scientific research' staff.

'Volunteer', no doubt.

Having seen what i put up here: would YOU pay for these two to run a greenhouse for you?

Being a lying, bombastic idiot isn't something you want on a resume.

Scientific FRAUDS are what Kokua and verite are:

frauds.
Lying through their teeth about the current state of hortucultural science; industry; LIES, about what consitutes decent - even HALF ASSED - scientific methods

Fraudulently BLITZING a scientific chemistry thread with simply more LIES, BULLSHIT, AND FAKE TESTING than most people care to wade through.

the botched and ludicrous experiment depriving the test plant of Phosphorus and Potassium: the two VERY substances that the Boron is supposed to aid, in the metabolism of;

The bombast and sheer stupidity of the things you've seen them BOTH say.

==============================================
PERFECTLY PLAINLY REFUTED
==============================================
proclaimations that make a snake oil peddler proud:

It's hilarious, just like it was when i did it to Radium and Babie Hughie: another pair of P.O.S.E.R.s who scattered like roaches, when the light came on. Those posts were getting deleted, re-edited, and just plain hidden, like it was a Tom DeLay staffers' party.

[ A pose by any other name is still a pose. ]

Yea: This, we can see.

FRAUDS:
whose every word is subject to being checked up on.

Just like i just did: and am going to do, again probably very soon:

and Shazzam! instant exposure as what they are:

POSERS claiming horticulture comprehension-

P.O.S.E.U.R. CENTRAL.

That's the 'dirt & shit in a bucket' ''nutritional expertise" we have here, trolling to their equally stupid gang of thugs' delight.

Yes, a poser by any other name, is STILL a poser.

Pose for the camera Kokua.

Pose for the quote and paste illumination of what YOU say:
compared to what the REAL experts say verite.

Credibility meltdown.


Credibility? you never HAD credibility.

You think it was easy to bend you over and rape you in front of this whole forum this time? This is only one thread. Just like this time: candy from an infant.

Just like next time: Rape, on a hilarious scale.


That a poser- by any other name- is just a fucking poser.

This, verite, Kokua: is demonstrably true.

Well it looks like you want to bring crediability into this thread which should have been done a long time ago but my friend like myself has no freakin ego and simply wants to share the love but WTF man and I quote


The only thing 'we' have firmly established, is that you're a scientifically incompetent high school graduate. Or high school dropout. And that you're too stupid to be embarrasseed after a reputation meltdown like the one we witnessed from your 'science' ''experiment''.

It wasn't truly his experiment SIR. He followed the instructions to prove a point some of the advice such as using battery acid for ph adjust is SHIT and for you to come in here and post jibberish and question the integrity of a man that has this on his resume,












I'm gonna go out on a limb as say Kokua aka Sunnyside might have a freakin clue about what he talking about. This was an article not a nice bud shot AN ARTICLE regarding YEARS of learning in the garden not in a fuggin BOOK. The man never posted and i have never out or respect for it but this shit gonna stop or I assure you I'm gonna get a few buddy's to join up and dissect (at last count 3240 post) and point out EVERY SINGLE BAD ADVICE POST and that does need to happen. An idea was tested IT FAILED if he did it wrong then for god sake SHOW US how to do it then. If not quit giving bad advice that's gonna screw up a lot of grows.


Oh and before ya wanna slam me for speaking up


naw it's not worth it. The proof is in my gallery and understand as far as knowledge I walk in Sunnyside's shadow and proud of it and your not gonna slam my brother without a fight.


DG you better lock this puppy before it gets ugly I feel.


Sorry Gypsy but we both know that quoted post was total bullshit and I had to say something.



Have A Nice Day
Mr.Wags


I just read again your eloquent post and notice that ya brought Verite into the conversation well then Verite if you could get a hold of Pink and see if by chance sproutco and -KingMaker- are coming from the same IP address? Now it might not entirely be the same person (Jekyll and Hyde come to mind) but inquiring minds wanna know?

 

[CaptJamesTKirk]

Thank you Mr Wags.


K+ and carry on.

3240+ posts in a few months - summtins wrong

 

[Ganja_Dragon]

Mrwags, I doubt you will acknowledge a post from a newbie with no images in my gallery, but I expect you to consider my words with as little bias as possible given the circumstances. I will, however, be brutally honest. Understand that I do not expect anyone to like me for it, but I do expect people to respect that fact.

I only just started growing the plant of our common interest, and I will freely admit I have had less than spectacular results. Everything ranging from root rot to nute burn to things as stupid and simple as keeping the rockwool way too wet. But that is not my credibility point, here. My credibility point is in my pursuit of knowledge and the proper methods to acquire it.

Understand that I do not know anyone here, but what I do know is proper research procedure. I was the first to point out the error in Kokua's methods, and in that post, I specifically stated why it was incorrect and what to do to correct it. I doubt he would have gotten as much flak as he did if he did not both argue against the theory introduced by sproutco, perform the experiment incorrectly, and then continue to stand by his own statement without providing concrete evidence to support it. Other people have introduced critical facets of proper research study, and you can find it throughout the thread after the failed experiment. I must reiterate that the study performed was hardly legitimate enough to warrant Kokua's continued defiance of sproutco's statement, and in a manner that almost seems flippant.

This forces me to question the remainder of Kokua's findings. It leads to questions such as "is it really [X] or the by-product of [X] that produces better results?" "is it really [Nutrient Y] or an incidental compound included in [Nutrient Y]?" The questions can continue forever.

Further, articles mean little, other than the person happened to be chosen. You have scanned six pages of articles, four of which are completely irrelevant to your argument, considering the fact that they are not written by Sunnyside, leaving four rather lackluster paragraphs that, while concise, tell me very little. I have to admit, though, the big splash page of the potted plant does catch your attention. Big photos and basic information just does not do very much to support your end.

Kingmaker's belligerence was uncalled for, but a hot-blooded response is not going to help you or your friend. I expect such from another member, but not from a moderator.

Further, if the growers in the forums are smart, they will perform small tests to consider the ideas introduced by other members. It is a process that is already going on with the many many propagation ideas being disseminated, for example. Sproutco is just another person offering ideas. Some of which I just might plan on using, or at least experimenting with in the off-chance that he might be on to something. Thus far, I have not seen any of sproutco's ideas legitimately refuted in even a vaguely proper research study.

There has already been an explanation as to why Verite was dragged into the issue, but I will proceed to explain it again, anyway. You probably will not read past this, but for the record:

Verite cited wikipedia, a site that employs uncontrolled, user-defined data that is freely editable. That description alone should probably alarm you. Uncontrolled. User-defined. Freely editable. This is an unstable and unreliable source of information that should not be used to support any argument whatsoever, let alone attempt to refute a theory or idea requiring further research. If I wanted to, I could personally go wikipedia and type in somewhere "Borax can also be used as an enema solution".

Given that, Verite's insistence upon the validity of wikipedia's information is best described as narrow-minded. Again, it does not warrant Kingmaker's outburst, but I cannot say I do not relate to his frustration regarding Verite.

I do not, however, support his generalized stab at organic growers. Considering the growing popularity of organically-grown products, this may be totally untrue. In the situation of this community, it is a matter of preference, and thus should not have been said.

In closing, I have this to say:

In some cases, the quote you have in your signature may be words of wisdom:

"Never Argue With The Ignorant Because They Will Simply Pull You Down To Their Level And Beat You With Experience."

But in a situation where such ignorance is detrimental to the success of a given community, it should be solidly condemned. This place is not about the dissemination of ignorance and "housewives' tales", but the offering of methods both tried-and-true and off the beaten path. In my experience, the best things are found off the beaten path, though you may not be the one to find them.

Simultaneously, if you feel you are berating an ignorant person, perhaps you should pause to reconsider the quote which you so love. While I do not believe you are not ignorant, you seem to be beating Kingmaker and sproutco with your own experience.

If you read through all that, you have my congratulations. If you considered my words carefully before arriving at a conclusion, you have my respect.

 

[The Bling]

Hey Im a high school drop out. really this is getting very stupid if you feel the need to put borax on your plants do so if not don't (personally id rather stick to washing my clothes with it)

other notes

i thing sproutco is DEA (personal opinion dont say shit)
HIGH TIMES is full of crap dirty stinky shit
Borax should be used........ instead of bleach
If you typed more than this you should check your plants because your not giving them enough attention
PANSYS REALLY FUCKING PANSYS HERES SOME THING ABOUT PANSIES YOU ARE ONE SPROUT FEED YOUR SELF SOME BORAX AND SEE HOW IT MAKES YOU FEEL

sorry im high lol

 

[mrwags]

Mrwags, I doubt you will acknowledge a post from a newbie with no images in my gallery, but I expect you to consider my words with as little bias as possible given the circumstances. I will, however, be brutally honest. Understand that I do not expect anyone to like me for it, but I do expect people to respect that fact.

I only just started growing the plant of our common interest, and I will freely admit I have had less than spectacular results. Everything ranging from root rot to nute burn to things as stupid and simple as keeping the rockwool way too wet. But that is not my credibility point, here. My credibility point is in my pursuit of knowledge and the proper methods to acquire it.

Understand that I do not know anyone here, but what I do know is proper research procedure. I was the first to point out the error in Kokua's methods, and in that post, I specifically stated why it was incorrect and what to do to correct it. I doubt he would have gotten as much flak as he did if he did not both argue against the theory introduced by sproutco, perform the experiment incorrectly, and then continue to stand by his own statement without providing concrete evidence to support it. Other people have introduced critical facets of proper research study, and you can find it throughout the thread after the failed experiment. I must reiterate that the study performed was hardly legitimate enough to warrant Kokua's continued defiance of sproutco's statement, and in a manner that almost seems flippant.

This forces me to question the remainder of Kokua's findings. It leads to questions such as "is it really [X] or the by-product of [X] that produces better results?" "is it really [Nutrient Y] or an incidental compound included in [Nutrient Y]?" The questions can continue forever.

Further, articles mean little, other than the person happened to be chosen. You have scanned six pages of articles, four of which are completely irrelevant to your argument, considering the fact that they are not written by Sunnyside, leaving four rather lackluster paragraphs that, while concise, tell me very little. I have to admit, though, the big splash page of the potted plant does catch your attention. Big photos and basic information just does not do very much to support your end.

Kingmaker's belligerence was uncalled for, but a hot-blooded response is not going to help you or your friend. I expect such from another member, but not from a moderator.

Further, if the growers in the forums are smart, they will perform small tests to consider the ideas introduced by other members. It is a process that is already going on with the many many propagation ideas being disseminated, for example. Sproutco is just another person offering ideas. Some of which I just might plan on using, or at least experimenting with in the off-chance that he might be on to something. Thus far, I have not seen any of sproutco's ideas legitimately refuted in even a vaguely proper research study.

There has already been an explanation as to why Verite was dragged into the issue, but I will proceed to explain it again, anyway. You probably will not read past this, but for the record:

Verite cited wikipedia, a site that employs uncontrolled, user-defined data that is freely editable. That description alone should probably alarm you. Uncontrolled. User-defined. Freely editable. This is an unstable and unreliable source of information that should not be used to support any argument whatsoever, let alone attempt to refute a theory or idea requiring further research. If I wanted to, I could personally go wikipedia and type in somewhere "Borax can also be used as an enema solution".

Given that, Verite's insistence upon the validity of wikipedia's information is best described as narrow-minded. Again, it does not warrant Kingmaker's outburst, but I cannot say I do not relate to his frustration regarding Verite.

I do not, however, support his generalized stab at organic growers. Considering the growing popularity of organically-grown products, this may be totally untrue. In the situation of this community, it is a matter of preference, and thus should not have been said.

In closing, I have this to say:

In some cases, the quote you have in your signature may be words of wisdom:

But in a situation where such ignorance is detrimental to the success of a given community, it should be solidly condemned. This place is not about the dissemination of ignorance and "housewives' tales", but the offering of methods both tried-and-true and off the beaten path. In my experience, the best things are found off the beaten path, though you may not be the one to find them.

Simultaneously, if you feel you are berating an ignorant person, perhaps you should pause to reconsider the quote which you so love. While I do not believe you are not ignorant, you seem to be beating Kingmaker and sproutco with your own experience.

If you read through all that, you have my congratulations. If you considered my words carefully before arriving at a conclusion, you have my respect.

\

My good man I respond to as you called newbie post every day. The article you question are in fact the pages of the article published by High Times and WRITTEN by sunnyside chosen yes his name is on this paticular page as the author:





It was infact his article and the pages were simply a continuance of it. Posting random pics would be silly I would think.

We are not arguing here at least I'm not. My friend (a gifted and published grower) was assaulted and felt someone needed to say hey get a grip he knows what he is talking about. Kokua followed their instructions to the letter so as I stated if he did do something wrong let the self-proclaimed ones show us then. Make us wrong because one of the gifted tried and it failed so lets not make bold claims that the new kids take to heart and waste weeks of work and say screw this and find another hobby. This is not the only thread that is in question.

And please do understand a gallery is insignificant unless one is spouting off advice that seems a bit off the wall and if it is that lets see some of the results is that to much to ask? We all are here to learn and grow and share words are cheap and beans are not I'm sure even you can understand that.

Your response is appreciated.

Thanks For Sharing
Mr.Wags

 

[Ganja_Dragon]

I understand you want to defend the credibility of your friend, but it does not seem like there is anything to defend. This noise did not start because he was simply following instructions, it started because he made baseless statements-- statements that have no supporting evidence-- an act that does not produce a very positive response.

While adding borax can sound like an idea that would be "off the wall", like you say, there were agricultural sources cited that offer very convincing data. Additional personal research, which should always be done, can yield you specific chemistry information that could help you make the judgement as to whether or not to use it. I haven't balanced the equation, but disodium tetraborate Na(2)B(4)O(7) + 10H(2)O breaks down into sodium ions, borate ions, and hydroxide ions, plus hydrogen peroxide. By the time the plant absorbs and synthesizes these nutrients, there is nothing left of the original borax compound for humans to consume.

But as I mentioned before, these are the smart growers, who are willing and able to conduct research as they should. In my opinion, if you cannot isolate independent pieces of information to process in an orderly fashion, you probably should not be doing experiments, which require you to do just that many many times over.

It is logical to assume that, given the information regarding other plant species, borax applied as a nutrient would work in a similar fashion. However, the lack of personal experience statements and photographic evidence by sproutco does leave me to wonder, hence my desire to venture into experimenting with the borax, myself.

Caution is the better part of valor, in this case, and care should be taken whenever something new is being undertaken. If you cannot understand that, then you probably should not spend much money in that venture. If you do it anyway, then I can't help you. I refer you to the classic quote "A fool and his money are soon to par."

There is a great deal of free information on these forums for everyone to read and come to their own conclusions about. I lurked for a very long time since I found this place and OG because my questions were usually asked by someone else and answered. The information is free, but it can help you save money. If you insist on blindly pursuing a given piece of information or set thereof, then I refer you back to the quote in the previous paragraph.

For the record, I must say that I hold the word of fellow growers in this forum (very selectively, mind you) in much higher regard than anything that is printed in a periodical that is not a reputable newspaper or specialized research journal. In my experience, High Times is a magazine that is not intended for growers, but for the everyday pothead who is only just a hair away from completely clueless about how their bud gets from a seed to the stone they feel. Essentially, I think High Times, like most other magazines, is full of "airhead info". In this scenario, my personal opinion is: big names mean little more than big personal networks and big wallets.

As you said, we are all here to learn, but that means the inclusion of all possibilities except those that have been proven wrong or at least far less efficient than another possibility. The surest sign of success is not the acquisition of knowledge and power, but the expansion of it, which is one of many reasons why I neither understand nor support Kokua in this thread. On a similar note, I do not understand or support your presence here if your only purpose is to eagerly enforce the baseless statements he has made here.

While I give Kokua credit for trying, it was abolutely not his place to make conclusive statements without conclusive evidence. After his failed experiment and refusal to drop his argument, he has not contributed anything to the learning you hold in such high standing. Likewise, neither have you. Before you say anything about me, My contributions here include an attempt at assisting your friend, which also failed miserably, and repeatedly pointing out, for lack of a better term, bullshit.

As you probably know, actions speak louder than words. I may not have an article in a magazine and my personal experience in this particular arena may be questionable at best, my experience with people and education is significant and far-flung.

I responded to you, Mr. Wags, out of respect, but I doubt there is much more I can say without repeating myself or making any more statements that should be common sense, as things stand now.

So once again, if you read through all that, congratulations. If you considered it, respect.

 

[kokua]

While I give Kokua credit for trying, it was abolutely not his place to make conclusive statements without conclusive evidence. After his failed experiment and refusal to drop his argument, he has not contributed anything to the learning you hold in such high standing.
respect.

Absolutely right...nothing else to say. If I never see another fucking box of borax in my life it will be too soon.

 

[Babbabud]

I can say this. I used to answer lots of questions for new growers on this site. Now it seems there is a group that answers every question. I quit answering very many because i can see our methods are so different and I dont want arguments. But the methods ive seen of using borax and some other things on here may be a way to get where they are going but from my experience there is much easier and simpler advice. Too bad there so many authorities on here these days that some of the ppl that have learned the simple ways dont seem to want to post them up anymore.

 

[mrwags]

It just seems a lot of the advice being given is for ADVANCED growers not the newbies and the like. Imagine a 18 year old kid in the basement with a box of battery acid and a gallon of water, I have no doubt that it would work but most of our members I feel would do more harm than good. maybe we need an ADVANCED forum for the guys that want to break it down one molecule at a time so that they may exchange their concoctions with each other.

But Dragon in your words I can feel your integrity and please understand I meant no disrespect to YOU sir. I do understand what you are saying but if it can be done and will work how about the guys who post's it shows it thats all.




Have A Nice Day
Mr.Wags

 

[Raque]

I can say this. I used to answer lots of questions for new growers on this site. . .
Too bad there so many authorities on here these days that some of the ppl that have learned the simple ways dont seem to want to post them up anymore.

I'm with ya there - I don't post much at all either, let the know it alls... think they know it all

I'm totally fine with not knowing shit

 

[Mr GreenJeans]

I'm with ya there - I don't post much at all either, let the know it alls... think they know it all I'm totally fine with not knowing shit

Uh oh - I must be approaching my more experienced years - I not only understand but am starting to feel the same way

Slightly off topic - this seems to be a population size type of problem - it happened here when the membership increased in a big way, have seen it happen elsewhere when the user base grew large.

Very few small cozy places on the internet anymore

Happy Holidays one and all :friends: -MGJ

 

[Babbabud]

Yea Raque with prolly the finest collection of kushes around and he doesnt give advice much anymore... bummer!
All im saying is if the newgrowers have to be chemist to figure this out they wont be working at it or hanging around long. When someone has a problem lets give them the simplest method first. I can tell you this ... i have very proven results and ive never used battery acid or borax or most the other advice i hear from this group I dont use because there are much easier methods. Why teach our newbies all this stuph and fill there heads with so many distractions when the best way is to go get some PH up or down and correct it? Move on and get the job done. Grow some pot and stay high. Im sorry if im offending anyone but I just think its time we got back to simple methods for the newbies and stop all the complicated methods. Lets take them there the easy way and if they want to get more into later fine. KISS
sorry if im offending anyone.

 

[CaptJamesTKirk]

If I never see another fucking box of borax in my life it will be too soon.

Awwww bubba - it was fun while it lasted.



seems sprout still wants to debate, but I'm convinced.

Hey, does this mean your an advanced grower?????

wwwwwwwwuuuuuuuuuuu!!

shine on!

 

[WAMEN]

THANKS FOR THE SHOW GUYS


PS: I think its about time to put an end to this thing.. theres a load of "missunderstandable" shit that could make somebody stop using nutes and start using hand-washing products or stuff for dishes..lol

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Yea Raque with prolly the finest collection of kushes around and he doesnt give advice much anymore... bummer!
All im saying is if the newgrowers have to be chemist to figure this out they wont be working at it or hanging around long. When someone has a problem lets give them the simplest method first. I can tell you this ... i have very proven results and ive never used battery acid or borax or most the other advice i hear from this group I dont use because there are much easier methods. Why teach our newbies all this stuph and fill there heads with so many distractions when the best way is to go get some PH up or down and correct it? Move on and get the job done. Grow some pot and stay high. Im sorry if im offending anyone but I just think its time we got back to simple methods for the newbies and stop all the complicated methods. Lets take them there the easy way and if they want to get more into later fine. KISS
sorry if im offending anyone.

No offense here Babba... I agree with you whole heartedly...
I also agree that this kind of thread is dangerous for the newb grower... Boron is not some secret elixer that will double your harvest, but the thread title reads like it is...
Boron deficiencies imho would be a very rare problem in a properly run hydro setup... from everything I have read, it's really more of a problem in soil where crops are repeatedly grown, and it has become depleted...
Boron is used as an Herbicide... 'Nuff said... Newbs should stay away from advanced techniques involving potential herbicides, IMHO...
Growing is a science and an art, and anyone who can't see both sides is 1/2 blind...

 

[Guest]

^^^^^I agree....I've said the same thing in another thread to only get neg rep from sproutco and others on his side for saying I thought he was going to confuse a member that admited he knew nothing about growing...basics first...I give up as i'm not here to argue with anyone...I know what works for me and I'm still learning after 15 yrs...I just worry about the new members that think they are getting proven advice for marijuana...not other house plants like sproutco refers to...I wish everyone luck with their grows and hate to see someone fail when we all are taking the same risks...with that i'mn off to try my hand at some bubble making..stay safe andthis post wasnt to offend or start anything...just an opinion