familystone
New member
Will all of the negativity about DE I decided to email Blumat. They seem to think there should be no prob so I guess I'll be the guinea pig. Anyway, just thought I'd let you all know.
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Blumat auto watering
- Thread starter sunnydog
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- blumat drippers irrigation watering
Am I missing something here? Just set it up and do a trial run before adding your plants. You'll have your answer in a day or two and you won't risk any plants. Simple and done.
Family, make sure to increase your P fertilization when using DE, or better yet treat the DE with a P fertilizer before placing plants in it. DE is known to 'rob' plants of P.
I think you would be better off using it as an amendment instead of the complete medium, but best of luck with it either way.
You may like this read. Its long though, but right up your alley.
Hey I've experimented alot with the napa stuff. It stays way too wet for me. it has its place good for big plants in small pots, or plants with lots of roots that you want to water a little less. Mixed with coco it keeps the coco very wet, by itself it stays super wet. Perlite vs de, I pick perlite. workin good in my wick bucket tho(mixed with other stuff), so blumats might work, who knows. I say try one or 2 before you commit.
familystone
New member
Thanks Dave, yea I'll have to get back to some of the pertinent parts later. I did read the Results and was a little surprised, didn't know that about the P.
Thanks Cyat, hmm I will have to keep that in mind. Years ago I used a FoxFarm product was Ocean soilless or something along those lines, anyway I figured it was mostly DE. Plus I didn't want to order too much off the webz.
Dave, after reading that I've come to the conclusion its just a pissing match, The DE actually retains less P in the medium than different clay composite. We're talking 65% with clays to 58% with DE. DE might rob a little P from the plant but that is really only if the you are giving it inadequate ratio of nutes and in that case all of the clay mediums did that too.
The paper itself doesn't seem too credible because Exp 1 has DE in every test subject, they measured cell thickness of stem and compared it to research done on cell thickness of leaf, they watered the controls 3 more times than the subjects giving the control 30% or more nutes than the test (No wonder the controls were generally more healthy and bigger than the test subjects despite the large amount of nutrients that were simply washing away in the runoff.
Anyway, just wanted to let anyone know if they are interested in the above link whats up. As an aside, I should've left bread crumbs on this one. A more interesting story is the one unfolding with the lawsuit of USA vs. Engelhard and Floridan Corp (makers of lots clay products). It appears that these clays are located in a small geographic area in the south making competition cutthroat (ie seed companies, or nute companies marketing practices). Engelhard wants to create a monopoly and push business/people out. Sounds like some robber-baron stuff of old. Feudin and all...
Thanks Cyat, hmm I will have to keep that in mind. Years ago I used a FoxFarm product was Ocean soilless or something along those lines, anyway I figured it was mostly DE. Plus I didn't want to order too much off the webz.
Dave, after reading that I've come to the conclusion its just a pissing match, The DE actually retains less P in the medium than different clay composite. We're talking 65% with clays to 58% with DE. DE might rob a little P from the plant but that is really only if the you are giving it inadequate ratio of nutes and in that case all of the clay mediums did that too.
The paper itself doesn't seem too credible because Exp 1 has DE in every test subject, they measured cell thickness of stem and compared it to research done on cell thickness of leaf, they watered the controls 3 more times than the subjects giving the control 30% or more nutes than the test (No wonder the controls were generally more healthy and bigger than the test subjects despite the large amount of nutrients that were simply washing away in the runoff.
Anyway, just wanted to let anyone know if they are interested in the above link whats up. As an aside, I should've left bread crumbs on this one. A more interesting story is the one unfolding with the lawsuit of USA vs. Engelhard and Floridan Corp (makers of lots clay products). It appears that these clays are located in a small geographic area in the south making competition cutthroat (ie seed companies, or nute companies marketing practices). Engelhard wants to create a monopoly and push business/people out. Sounds like some robber-baron stuff of old. Feudin and all...
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A
ak-51
Here we are! I got my carrots a few days ago and I have everything tentatively set up right now.
Check stuff out, and if I did something feel free to point it out! Thanks
Picture of my temporary* Blumat reservoir.
The bottom of the bucket is only about a foot above the blumats right now. That's an air pump on the top that's acting as a stirrer. I have it on a timer and it only turns on 15 minutes every hour. I think it'll probably increase the occurrence of bubbles forming in the line, but it's the only way to stir the nutes right now. The bulkhead is in the center of that bucket on the bottom. It comes out of the bottom and goes into a 90 immediately, then out the side of that bucket through a hole and to the blumats. I tried to highlight the path of the line in red. There is a DWC-style water level indicator hooked onto the side, I'd like to wrap most of that in black tubing to cut down on light getting in there.
*Temporary. I'd like to rig this bucket up higher. I'd also like to have it auto-fed and circulated by a ground level, larger, reservoir. This will work for now though until I figure out how exactly I'd like to move forward with the upgrades.
Long view of the feed line running around the buckets (3-gallon, coco, with a little bit of hydroton on top) and ending in front of the front right bucket. The hydroton is just on the top, and I made sure that there is none touching the ceramic of the cone. I had the idea that a layer of hydroton on top would limit the light evaporating water and drying out the coco, but I don't think it matters much now that the canopy is sufficiently thick.
Close up of one of the units. I poked little holes in the buckets and zip-tied the line to them.
This is my "drain-valve" for purging the line of air bubbles. I just used one of the 8mm to 3mm 90s and some of the hose that the 10mm line was wrapped with (is that the same as the 3mm?), tying two knots in it to. It works, and it's not extra money, and it's here right now. It does drain pretty slow.
Check stuff out, and if I did something feel free to point it out! Thanks
Picture of my temporary* Blumat reservoir.
The bottom of the bucket is only about a foot above the blumats right now. That's an air pump on the top that's acting as a stirrer. I have it on a timer and it only turns on 15 minutes every hour. I think it'll probably increase the occurrence of bubbles forming in the line, but it's the only way to stir the nutes right now. The bulkhead is in the center of that bucket on the bottom. It comes out of the bottom and goes into a 90 immediately, then out the side of that bucket through a hole and to the blumats. I tried to highlight the path of the line in red. There is a DWC-style water level indicator hooked onto the side, I'd like to wrap most of that in black tubing to cut down on light getting in there.
*Temporary. I'd like to rig this bucket up higher. I'd also like to have it auto-fed and circulated by a ground level, larger, reservoir. This will work for now though until I figure out how exactly I'd like to move forward with the upgrades.
Long view of the feed line running around the buckets (3-gallon, coco, with a little bit of hydroton on top) and ending in front of the front right bucket. The hydroton is just on the top, and I made sure that there is none touching the ceramic of the cone. I had the idea that a layer of hydroton on top would limit the light evaporating water and drying out the coco, but I don't think it matters much now that the canopy is sufficiently thick.
Close up of one of the units. I poked little holes in the buckets and zip-tied the line to them.
This is my "drain-valve" for purging the line of air bubbles. I just used one of the 8mm to 3mm 90s and some of the hose that the 10mm line was wrapped with (is that the same as the 3mm?), tying two knots in it to. It works, and it's not extra money, and it's here right now. It does drain pretty slow.
familystone
New member
no pics.
Awesome fella's, thanks for the responses.
I've got (6) Manadala 8 Mile High clones I put into flower and the adjustment seems to be working a lot better than the "clinging drip + turn 2 arrows" adjustment the manufacture recommends.
So here's another thing I noticed. I remember the pics a while back in this thread showing the roots reaching for the drip tube. I didn't get this per se, but what I did get was roots just below the surface so heavily clumped together it almost felt like a buried rock.
I doubt this would affect the saturation of the coco, but being a bit of an "over engineer type" would a top layer of perlite help the running Blumats cover a little wider area?
Yeah .. was Rives idea, but worked great for me first time... after playing with the manufacturers method for over 2 weeks .
I've got under the drip on just 1 plant ,,what looks like a 3/4's burried golf ball right under the drip hose . its pretty wild isn't it ?
i can't wait to pull the root balls to see what they look like by harvest . not sure about the perilite top ... but maybe an experiment is in order ..... its your idea ... go for it & lets us know how it goes .
growem green & stay safe ...Dans
Pompey_Monkey
Member
I've got under the drip on just 1 plant ,,what looks like a 3/4's burried golf ball right under the drip hose . its pretty wild isn't it ?
I can relate to that too! Just be careful not to let the hose rest on the soil as the roots will try to grow right up the tube...
Just got back from a 3 day weekend camping & the blumats worked flawlessly !!!! thank god for whoever invented these .
out of 9 buckets ..... 1 overwatered & 1 under watered ....pretty great in my book .
growem green & stay safe ...Dans
out of 9 buckets ..... 1 overwatered & 1 under watered ....pretty great in my book .
growem green & stay safe ...Dans
C
Chris1
Is having a pump on timer a safer bet for flooding issues?
A
ak-51
What kind of timers do you have failing Lazy, and in what way?
For my blumat setup I have an elevated 5 gallon bucket that directly feeds the blumats, then I have a lower, larger res that feeds the bucket.
The pump between the two is overpowered. I made overflow drain hoses for the bucket and still the amount that the pump can pump up there is more than those two drains can handle. I have only ever used one kind of timer for every other application: a Brinks branded mechanical timer with 15 minute intervals. The problem is that really even 1 minute is too much.
I bought a C.A.P. cycle timer to run that pump at certain intervals. Right now it turns on for 30 seconds every 20 minutes. This is more than enough to keep the bucket topped off, and it helps keep the nutrients stirred up.
My only worry is the cycle timer somehow getting stuck on. That would overflow the bucket and flood my room. It getting stuck off is not a huge issue, since I check the bucket level daily and realize that it was below where it should be. The bucket holds enough to feed the plants for at least 2 days anyway.
For my blumat setup I have an elevated 5 gallon bucket that directly feeds the blumats, then I have a lower, larger res that feeds the bucket.
The pump between the two is overpowered. I made overflow drain hoses for the bucket and still the amount that the pump can pump up there is more than those two drains can handle. I have only ever used one kind of timer for every other application: a Brinks branded mechanical timer with 15 minute intervals. The problem is that really even 1 minute is too much.
I bought a C.A.P. cycle timer to run that pump at certain intervals. Right now it turns on for 30 seconds every 20 minutes. This is more than enough to keep the bucket topped off, and it helps keep the nutrients stirred up.
My only worry is the cycle timer somehow getting stuck on. That would overflow the bucket and flood my room. It getting stuck off is not a huge issue, since I check the bucket level daily and realize that it was below where it should be. The bucket holds enough to feed the plants for at least 2 days anyway.
Flow don't stru
New member
blumats - a cut and paste summary from icmag thread
[This is what I found most useful from a great thread, (as of June 2011). It may help others. I would still advise anyone to put a side an afternoon and read through the whole thing though - it's a good humoured voyage of discovery for all concerned. There has been very slight editing, mainly for coherence, but not much for grammar, style etc. Note that what follows is a product of several authors, not all of whom agree on every detail. So the "I" is plural, as in the Caribbean "I and I". I've added elipses where changes of author might otherwise confuse. Authors are not credited (and they really ought to be), and pictures not included - if someone fancies doing that, please be my guest. Flow don't struggle.]
setting up
1) Take the Blumat carrot and unscrew the bottom, fill with water, and soak in water for at least 1 hr. When filling the valves with water, do this very carefully to avoid getting an air-bubble in the top part of the valve controller. What I do is submerge both parts in a bucket of water, tap them gently to make sure there are no air bubbles and then join them together underwater to ensure that no air gets in. You need to check them regularly to make sure that no air has got in there.
Don't under any circumstances allow the dripper reservoir to run dry....if it does, your plants will start drying out and this will rob the the ceramic valve of the water. You will get an air bubble in the valve or lose the water from them totally.......you then will have to remove every valve to reset it and getting them back in to the pots is a difficult job, particularly if there are lots of roots.
2) Water the pot its going into heavily, should have a full saucer underneath when done. Make certain your growing medium is absolutely saturated. Insert the cone midway between container and trunk. Press the cone in to where the plastic cap meets the cone. If the ceramic is exposed, it can cause erratic drip control due to evaporation. Extend the silicone drip hose to center of container. If you are using 10 gal or larger, you can use two TB's or purchase their drip extenders which allows you to drip in multiple locations using one TB.
3) Insert blumat valve into medium, close to one side of the pot
4) Pull 3mm dripline so it extends across to far side of pot
5) Open brown knob (counter-clockwise) until water runs through freely;
Loosen the adjuster cap until you have a steady flow. Slowly and patiently turn the adj. cap clockwise until a drop is suspended at the end of the drip hose (important!). Again be patient and watch for 15 seconds. Now turn the cap clockwise and additional notch or two depending the level of saturation you are seeking, (this will take some attention over a few days). Once you have found what works, in the future it will be an absoulte set and forget.
6) Now close the valve until water just stops dripping.
This [ie points one to six above] is the initial dial-in.
7) 2-3 days later, go and check all of the pots. If the pot is light, pull the end of the 3mm dripline through the Blumat a bit, to make sure it's not clogged. Often water will start to flow with this step alone. Don't adjust the valve until you do this! If you pull and nothing happens, open the valve until water flows freely, then close until a drop of water hangs on the end of the dripline. if a brown clog came out, then that was your problem. If not, the valve just needed adjustment. Check on it again in a few hours to make sure it's not flooding. Usually a 1/8" rotation of the knob makes a significant difference in the moisture in the pot. It can take a while to get the dripper settings right......lots of variables - size of plant/roots, temps etc. Persevere though; as once they are dialled in it is just a matter of refilling the reservoir every few days.
9) If the pot is too heavy (or flooding) ALSO pull on the dripline a bit to clear any possible clogs. Sometimes the water will flow even faster! Now you can dial back the brown valve cap (clockwise) to close it until it stops dripping again. Check it again in a couple hours to make sure it's not flooding still.
That should about do it, most of the time I have a Blumat problem its
avoiding flooding
If you are experiencing flooding after you perfectly adjusted the TB's, it will be the result of:
if you lose pressure
If you run out of pressure for even 5 thirsty minutes, you must resoak, refill, readjust. No way around it. OH! And just in case for some reason you should accidentally let things get too dry and lose water from the probes, DON'T go pulling them out to sort it out! Just try to stop the probe body turning in the dirt with a little pressure from a finger in the dirt right near the top, and then unscrew the cap! Ya can top it back up enough like this (again in my exp. anyway) - just be sure the tube is level and fill with a measuring syringe until there's a good meniscus-bubble of water raised above the edge, then carefully put and screw the cap back into place.
Did this variously with about 3 of mine each time, when they'd missed a watering due to me accidentally putting summink hard and lumpen on top of soft sub-feeder tubes, and re-filling them like this, *IN OVER WET COMPOST* (important, that bit!), then dialling them back in - left a little bubble in there but it no worries saw them work fine again for pretty much the duration.
dripline
...I pack the soil a bit AND I SHORTEN the dripline a bit, ( about 2cm) makes the cone more responsive. Use the black garden trays, I do. If you dial them down TOO much, the soil will dry and cake,when the water flows it finds a channel to the bottom, therby bypassing the cone. Also, try making a small collection depression under the drip hose this helps it soak in and not run off.
...Shorten the dripper hose from 8cm to 6 cm. Seems to make them more responsive in the smaller pots.
If you extend your 3mm tubing across the pot try to have to propped up by a lower node or something to prevent it from laying directly on the medium surface.
cleaning
After each grow i clean the ceramic cones with a brush and let them soak for several hours in fresh water. I clean the hoses by filling the tank with hot water and some soap and let this run through the hoses 3 - 4 times. This way i never had to replace a single unit.
using two valves per pot and/or satellites
I've found that any pot above 6-7 litres in size works better with 2 valves. Or you can set the valve to control a ring dripper that lies around the pot with 2 or 3 dripper per pot. I use my valves in 6.5 litre pots filled with coco.
There is an argument for two drippers per pot regardless of size, especially if you are leaving your setup unattended for days at a time. If one fails, you've always got a second dripper to make sure the plant doesn't die whilst you are absent.
My clogging problem has only been since I started using the distrubution drippers - they were getting clogged. Easily sorted, just give the end of the dripper lines a 'tweek' once a week or so.
...Contrary to another fellow earlier in the thread, I can highly recommend using the small satelite outlets as you only need one blumat and then use 4 or 5 outlets around the stem for perfect distribution of water.
maxi size
I use the blumat maxi for all pots over 10 liters, or 2½ gal. Blumats recommends you use them for larger pots and plants with more than 25-30 centimeter of depth. I use a drip splitter on 11 liter pots so that there are 2 dripoutlets, not one.
The reason I would personally recommend you use the maxi, is that it allows more of the medium to dry out, easing the oxygen to the roots, as watering becomes less frequent as with the short ones "blumat tropf". Thats is as stated in pots with a depth of 25-30 at least.
coco
I have Blumats and Coco down to a science. Coco holds water well, but still gives the roots a ton of oxygen. That and the Smart Pots hold moisture and air prune the roots so you can grow a monster plant in a small container. I can attest that coco/perlite (Botanicare ReadyGro aeration mix) works very well! My plants are about 30% larger in the same amount of time with coco/perlite over FFOF.
Dialing in blumats in coco is a little different than what the manual says. If you hand water to runoff before setting up the blumat (which you should) you will have a very wet and heavy pot. If you put your blumat in the coco at that point and tighten 2.5 arrows from the stop of dripping, your coco will completely dry out before the blumat triggers. I assume this has something to do with coco's wicking ability that keeps the moisture evenly distributed in the pot but I haven't given it that much thought. I just know that I always end up loosening and tweaking the blumats a lot more if the coco dries out completely.
What works for me is letting the saturated coco go for a day before I try to dial in the blumats to let some of the excess moisture get out of the pot. And then at most I only tighten one arrow from the stop of the drip. I use Smart Pots and I am typically only installing blumats in pots with freshly transplanted and/or young plants - the same scenario might not work out with mature plants or hard pots. My goal is for the blumats to maintain the moisture level about halfway between completely saturated and dried out. If it dries out completely it is almost eaiser to hand water to runoff again and start the process over again, only not tightening so much the next time around.
...Thank you! That is what I found works as well. I soak the pots in the morning, at night I dial to stop drip +1. They work well enough that I just ordered 36 more.
...Having run them in both organic, peat-based mixes, and most recently in pure coco with canna nutes, I can see why you would think this. Really dialling them in using coco is much more involved, there is a much much finer line between too wet and too dry. My experience with coco and the blumats would probably have been better if I was set up for run-to-waste.. I was constantly fighting to find the limit, when really they could've worked well if set constantly "over-wet".
...I did a coco chip grow [N.B. chip, NOT the usual coco], they basically suck. Too porous for small plants, they have a hard time growing roots in it. You can think of coco chips like perlite, good to mix with other things, but not ideal alone. They won't work with blumats either as they don't wick well enough.
...Over the past week I've been dialing it all in as this is my first time with blumats. Some want more water than others I am finding. Also, my coco is cut with a bit of perlite so it tends to dry a bit quicker. But I have found that a 4 sec drip rate, once the moisture level is where I want it, is working wonders for me. Were it me, I open wide until runoff, then shut them down. Wait a day at most, then up the drip rate to ~7 sec. Seems like your coco wants to dry fast, so 7 sec might be too long. My coco hasn't been dry at all this whole time..with the exception of the very top. I have found that even though they're dry on top, the very bottoms are still nice and moist (I can feel it through the smart pots) and still have roots growing out of the bottom.
mediums other than coco
a peat/perlite/ewc/lime/bonemeal/blood/kelp/greensand mix works great with Blumats too. Benefit with a mix like that is you really don't need to add anything to the reservoir except water.
Perhaps Sunnydog has it right (for soil at least.) Amended organic soil and water with plain water.
Just my thoughts - the single point drip of either the regular or maxi will cause an inverted cone of "watered" media. Media porosity effects this to a great degree in my experience. Wicking comes into play and if you get it just right you can keep the whole pot moist while eliminating any "perched water table". (The glory of Blumats! )
nutes
I read on their web-site that they recommend not using fertilizers in the reservoir that feeds the ceramic waterers. However, from what I can glean, people on here have very few problems, if the drippers are cleaned on a scehduled basis, with using Gen Hydro's Grow, Bloom and Flora.
I think that you can use most synthetics just fine.
GH Floranova nutes are not a good idea for a low-maintenance reservoir. I should have realized this when I saw how sludgy the nutes were but at the time I was intent on simplicity and a one part nute program is as simple as it gets. The pH was going up a full point overnight and there was lots of floaties in the lines.
...no organic nutes through Blumats, that's just asking for a clog. Salts only, and preferably run a dead res (DM Zone, peroxide, Florakleen, whatever) and I still use drip clean to prevent buildup.
Or if you wanted to run coco or RW, have the Blumats on plain water only, but have a separate res for feeding with hand watering. Not too bad for most guys, that's once a week or so to feed?
setting up the res
alot of the problems people have with the blumats are due to not enough pressure in the lines, from not having enough height for the reservoir.
... I think the best way to maintain a steady pressure on the simple/cheap would be an elevated rez with a constant water level. Keep in mind the rez can be the size of a tea cup if you setup a float/auto topoff for it from a lower water source.
If you are running straight water, I would NOT use an airstone, as the "fizzy" water would be more likely to cause inline bubbles.
... never had any problems with bubbles or air in any of my lines, I have 200 Blumats on 4 barrels, all heavily aerated and no problems. my lines run across the ground and then up to the pots, so I guess that makes all the air bleed out of the drippers right away?
The difficulty with flushing properly (which I consider to be handwatering plain water through the top at best) is about the biggest downside I've seen with the Blumats. Though the drippers will drip plain water, yes, it's not the same as saturating the medium and running volumes of water through it. No way to automate it, and with 100 plants it's a pain to do a proper flush by hand. It will be worse when I start up-potting to 5g pots in flower, so I'm hoping Drip Clean is the answer.
...If you were bucks-up and had a smaller grow I suppose you could run 2 blumats per pot (1 food, 1 water only) off separate manifolds and reservoirs (or 1 straight off the tap with a pressure reducer.) Then you can simply switch them back and forth as needed, wouldn't that be handy?
irrigation lines
First, feed the system water from BOTH ENDS i.e. a loop. At the res, the proper set up is with both ends of the loop plugged into the res separately (you need an extra thru-hull fitting), rather than plugged into a T coming from a single exit on your reservoir. [see picture thumbnail] Now you have a water supply loop. This is important.
Second, I put a "T" with a bit of hose and shut off valve somewhere around the middle of the loop,and use this to purge a gallon or two from the line about once a week.
You can see/feel the bubbles leaving.Just connect both ends of the water hose to the reservoir, instead of using the end piece. At the res, put a "t" fitting. Connect both ends of your water distribution line to the T. Now you have a water supply loop. The loop is routine maintenance to flush out air bubbles which can cause problems in the system - it's like bleeding your brakes.
2 other maintenance tasks mentioned were to loosen your valves from time to time to flush out any nute chunks, and move the hose slightly to be sure you're not crimping it.
I would recommend (if you're running more than one blumat per pot) that you DONT put them both on one tee, if the bottom of that particular tee clogged, that plant would be hurting. I cross them up so it gets one Blumat off one tee, and another Blumat off the neighboring tee. If one clogs, the other will probably still function. Better to have slightly underwatered plants than dead ones right?
When a line clogs just pull the house out of the blumat and suck on it, and then spit!
the bleeder valve is necessary for the looped feeder line set up. GDbud suggested using a open line to vent, and that's been working problem free for me for a few months now, no bleeder valve. basically you put a T right after your thru-hull, one side faces down, and your feed line is run off that, and the other faces up, and you put 6-12" of line on that and leave the end open. that way any bubbles in your line can float up and out.
Insulate (cover) any lines exposed to bright light, and do a good purge at least once a week.
tube sizing
A summary of tubing diameters: The 3mm silicone line that drips is 3mm OD (outside diameter). This is very close to 3/32 inch ID (inside diameter). Blumat supply line is 8mm OD which equates to 1/4 inch ID. It is stiff and wants to stay in a curled shape. A hot water soak will help it unwind.
the MM tubing you need is NOT universal or found anywhere, it's 2mm ID/3MM OD silicone tubing and you MUST use the stuff from Tropf Blumat or it won't work right (the material has to be very soft for the valve to pinch it shut.) Past that, you CAN use 3/32" barbed nylon plastic tees from kentsystems.com to connect them into any hose or manifold you want.
The extra 3mm tubing just allows you to run the 8mm on the floor - and then have enough 3mm tubing to run up to your pot with a bit of slack for movement. the deal with the 3mm hosing is that it's MUCH MORE CONVENIENT to have long drip lines, which allows you to move your plants around. the feeder hose (8mm) is difficult to work with, and not very flexible.
....If I were starting over I'd just get the sensers, lots of the 3mm tubing, the little barbs from kent systems.com , 1/2' tubing from your hydro store and that's it.
[This is what I found most useful from a great thread, (as of June 2011). It may help others. I would still advise anyone to put a side an afternoon and read through the whole thing though - it's a good humoured voyage of discovery for all concerned. There has been very slight editing, mainly for coherence, but not much for grammar, style etc. Note that what follows is a product of several authors, not all of whom agree on every detail. So the "I" is plural, as in the Caribbean "I and I".
I've added elipses where changes of author might otherwise confuse. Authors are not credited (and they really ought to be), and pictures not included - if someone fancies doing that, please be my guest. Flow don't struggle.]setting up
1) Take the Blumat carrot and unscrew the bottom, fill with water, and soak in water for at least 1 hr. When filling the valves with water, do this very carefully to avoid getting an air-bubble in the top part of the valve controller. What I do is submerge both parts in a bucket of water, tap them gently to make sure there are no air bubbles and then join them together underwater to ensure that no air gets in. You need to check them regularly to make sure that no air has got in there.
Don't under any circumstances allow the dripper reservoir to run dry....if it does, your plants will start drying out and this will rob the the ceramic valve of the water. You will get an air bubble in the valve or lose the water from them totally.......you then will have to remove every valve to reset it and getting them back in to the pots is a difficult job, particularly if there are lots of roots.
2) Water the pot its going into heavily, should have a full saucer underneath when done. Make certain your growing medium is absolutely saturated. Insert the cone midway between container and trunk. Press the cone in to where the plastic cap meets the cone. If the ceramic is exposed, it can cause erratic drip control due to evaporation. Extend the silicone drip hose to center of container. If you are using 10 gal or larger, you can use two TB's or purchase their drip extenders which allows you to drip in multiple locations using one TB.
3) Insert blumat valve into medium, close to one side of the pot
4) Pull 3mm dripline so it extends across to far side of pot
5) Open brown knob (counter-clockwise) until water runs through freely;
Loosen the adjuster cap until you have a steady flow. Slowly and patiently turn the adj. cap clockwise until a drop is suspended at the end of the drip hose (important!). Again be patient and watch for 15 seconds. Now turn the cap clockwise and additional notch or two depending the level of saturation you are seeking, (this will take some attention over a few days). Once you have found what works, in the future it will be an absoulte set and forget.
6) Now close the valve until water just stops dripping.
This [ie points one to six above] is the initial dial-in.
7) 2-3 days later, go and check all of the pots. If the pot is light, pull the end of the 3mm dripline through the Blumat a bit, to make sure it's not clogged. Often water will start to flow with this step alone. Don't adjust the valve until you do this! If you pull and nothing happens, open the valve until water flows freely, then close until a drop of water hangs on the end of the dripline. if a brown clog came out, then that was your problem. If not, the valve just needed adjustment. Check on it again in a few hours to make sure it's not flooding. Usually a 1/8" rotation of the knob makes a significant difference in the moisture in the pot. It can take a while to get the dripper settings right......lots of variables - size of plant/roots, temps etc. Persevere though; as once they are dialled in it is just a matter of refilling the reservoir every few days.
9) If the pot is too heavy (or flooding) ALSO pull on the dripline a bit to clear any possible clogs. Sometimes the water will flow even faster! Now you can dial back the brown valve cap (clockwise) to close it until it stops dripping again. Check it again in a couple hours to make sure it's not flooding still.
That should about do it, most of the time I have a Blumat problem its
- A: Too dry A small clog at the blumat, cleared by pulling the tubing
- B: Too wet: A clog cleared or I opened the valve too much
avoiding flooding
If you are experiencing flooding after you perfectly adjusted the TB's, it will be the result of:
- a pinched drip line. To prevent this, before setting, completely loosen adjuster, pull the silicone hose to it's intended location and proceed with adjustment. Once adjusted, never pull on the hose!
- a improperly soaked/filled/sealed TB. You must soak the cermaics in preferably r/o water for several hours. When filling (preferably r/o water), you must place the top on the cone under water making sure there are no air bubbles inside the cap. When sealing the unit (under water), make sure you tighten securely without going too far. You can strip them, thus no negative pressure, thus cone dries out, thus wfo!
- supply and demand. The elevated reservoir is limited in scope when dealing with agressive thirstly babes. If you have a dozen little girls, this method works fine with the distribution hose supplied in the kit. If you are looking for fool proof delivery for thirteen to infinity, you must pressurize your system. I won't go into technical details as there are so many options, but the end result needs to be an endless supply of 6 psi. Ironically, you will eliminate many sensitivites with the higher pressure.
- a vapor lock issue in the line. Bubbles accumulate in the hose, no more water gets past, just like in a car. Then, cause the medium is drying out, drippers open up fully. If water ultimately gets past the bubbles, the sensor carrot cannot react fast enough to stop over watering.
if you lose pressure
If you run out of pressure for even 5 thirsty minutes, you must resoak, refill, readjust. No way around it. OH! And just in case for some reason you should accidentally let things get too dry and lose water from the probes, DON'T go pulling them out to sort it out! Just try to stop the probe body turning in the dirt with a little pressure from a finger in the dirt right near the top, and then unscrew the cap! Ya can top it back up enough like this (again in my exp. anyway) - just be sure the tube is level and fill with a measuring syringe until there's a good meniscus-bubble of water raised above the edge, then carefully put and screw the cap back into place.
Did this variously with about 3 of mine each time, when they'd missed a watering due to me accidentally putting summink hard and lumpen on top of soft sub-feeder tubes, and re-filling them like this, *IN OVER WET COMPOST* (important, that bit!), then dialling them back in - left a little bubble in there but it no worries saw them work fine again for pretty much the duration.
dripline
...I pack the soil a bit AND I SHORTEN the dripline a bit, ( about 2cm) makes the cone more responsive. Use the black garden trays, I do. If you dial them down TOO much, the soil will dry and cake,when the water flows it finds a channel to the bottom, therby bypassing the cone. Also, try making a small collection depression under the drip hose this helps it soak in and not run off.
...Shorten the dripper hose from 8cm to 6 cm. Seems to make them more responsive in the smaller pots.
If you extend your 3mm tubing across the pot try to have to propped up by a lower node or something to prevent it from laying directly on the medium surface.
cleaning
After each grow i clean the ceramic cones with a brush and let them soak for several hours in fresh water. I clean the hoses by filling the tank with hot water and some soap and let this run through the hoses 3 - 4 times. This way i never had to replace a single unit.
using two valves per pot and/or satellites
I've found that any pot above 6-7 litres in size works better with 2 valves. Or you can set the valve to control a ring dripper that lies around the pot with 2 or 3 dripper per pot. I use my valves in 6.5 litre pots filled with coco.
There is an argument for two drippers per pot regardless of size, especially if you are leaving your setup unattended for days at a time. If one fails, you've always got a second dripper to make sure the plant doesn't die whilst you are absent.
My clogging problem has only been since I started using the distrubution drippers - they were getting clogged. Easily sorted, just give the end of the dripper lines a 'tweek' once a week or so.
...Contrary to another fellow earlier in the thread, I can highly recommend using the small satelite outlets as you only need one blumat and then use 4 or 5 outlets around the stem for perfect distribution of water.
maxi size
I use the blumat maxi for all pots over 10 liters, or 2½ gal. Blumats recommends you use them for larger pots and plants with more than 25-30 centimeter of depth. I use a drip splitter on 11 liter pots so that there are 2 dripoutlets, not one.
The reason I would personally recommend you use the maxi, is that it allows more of the medium to dry out, easing the oxygen to the roots, as watering becomes less frequent as with the short ones "blumat tropf". Thats is as stated in pots with a depth of 25-30 at least.
coco
I have Blumats and Coco down to a science. Coco holds water well, but still gives the roots a ton of oxygen. That and the Smart Pots hold moisture and air prune the roots so you can grow a monster plant in a small container. I can attest that coco/perlite (Botanicare ReadyGro aeration mix) works very well! My plants are about 30% larger in the same amount of time with coco/perlite over FFOF.
Dialing in blumats in coco is a little different than what the manual says. If you hand water to runoff before setting up the blumat (which you should) you will have a very wet and heavy pot. If you put your blumat in the coco at that point and tighten 2.5 arrows from the stop of dripping, your coco will completely dry out before the blumat triggers. I assume this has something to do with coco's wicking ability that keeps the moisture evenly distributed in the pot but I haven't given it that much thought. I just know that I always end up loosening and tweaking the blumats a lot more if the coco dries out completely.
What works for me is letting the saturated coco go for a day before I try to dial in the blumats to let some of the excess moisture get out of the pot. And then at most I only tighten one arrow from the stop of the drip. I use Smart Pots and I am typically only installing blumats in pots with freshly transplanted and/or young plants - the same scenario might not work out with mature plants or hard pots. My goal is for the blumats to maintain the moisture level about halfway between completely saturated and dried out. If it dries out completely it is almost eaiser to hand water to runoff again and start the process over again, only not tightening so much the next time around.
...Thank you! That is what I found works as well. I soak the pots in the morning, at night I dial to stop drip +1. They work well enough that I just ordered 36 more.
...Having run them in both organic, peat-based mixes, and most recently in pure coco with canna nutes, I can see why you would think this. Really dialling them in using coco is much more involved, there is a much much finer line between too wet and too dry. My experience with coco and the blumats would probably have been better if I was set up for run-to-waste.. I was constantly fighting to find the limit, when really they could've worked well if set constantly "over-wet".
...I did a coco chip grow [N.B. chip, NOT the usual coco], they basically suck. Too porous for small plants, they have a hard time growing roots in it. You can think of coco chips like perlite, good to mix with other things, but not ideal alone. They won't work with blumats either as they don't wick well enough.
...Over the past week I've been dialing it all in as this is my first time with blumats. Some want more water than others I am finding. Also, my coco is cut with a bit of perlite so it tends to dry a bit quicker. But I have found that a 4 sec drip rate, once the moisture level is where I want it, is working wonders for me. Were it me, I open wide until runoff, then shut them down. Wait a day at most, then up the drip rate to ~7 sec. Seems like your coco wants to dry fast, so 7 sec might be too long. My coco hasn't been dry at all this whole time..with the exception of the very top. I have found that even though they're dry on top, the very bottoms are still nice and moist (I can feel it through the smart pots) and still have roots growing out of the bottom.
mediums other than coco
a peat/perlite/ewc/lime/bonemeal/blood/kelp/greensand mix works great with Blumats too. Benefit with a mix like that is you really don't need to add anything to the reservoir except water.
Perhaps Sunnydog has it right (for soil at least.) Amended organic soil and water with plain water.
Just my thoughts - the single point drip of either the regular or maxi will cause an inverted cone of "watered" media. Media porosity effects this to a great degree in my experience. Wicking comes into play and if you get it just right you can keep the whole pot moist while eliminating any "perched water table". (The glory of Blumats! )
nutes
I read on their web-site that they recommend not using fertilizers in the reservoir that feeds the ceramic waterers. However, from what I can glean, people on here have very few problems, if the drippers are cleaned on a scehduled basis, with using Gen Hydro's Grow, Bloom and Flora.
I think that you can use most synthetics just fine.
GH Floranova nutes are not a good idea for a low-maintenance reservoir. I should have realized this when I saw how sludgy the nutes were but at the time I was intent on simplicity and a one part nute program is as simple as it gets. The pH was going up a full point overnight and there was lots of floaties in the lines.
...no organic nutes through Blumats, that's just asking for a clog. Salts only, and preferably run a dead res (DM Zone, peroxide, Florakleen, whatever) and I still use drip clean to prevent buildup.
Or if you wanted to run coco or RW, have the Blumats on plain water only, but have a separate res for feeding with hand watering. Not too bad for most guys, that's once a week or so to feed?
setting up the res
alot of the problems people have with the blumats are due to not enough pressure in the lines, from not having enough height for the reservoir.
... I think the best way to maintain a steady pressure on the simple/cheap would be an elevated rez with a constant water level. Keep in mind the rez can be the size of a tea cup if you setup a float/auto topoff for it from a lower water source.
If you are running straight water, I would NOT use an airstone, as the "fizzy" water would be more likely to cause inline bubbles.
... never had any problems with bubbles or air in any of my lines, I have 200 Blumats on 4 barrels, all heavily aerated and no problems. my lines run across the ground and then up to the pots, so I guess that makes all the air bleed out of the drippers right away?
The difficulty with flushing properly (which I consider to be handwatering plain water through the top at best) is about the biggest downside I've seen with the Blumats. Though the drippers will drip plain water, yes, it's not the same as saturating the medium and running volumes of water through it. No way to automate it, and with 100 plants it's a pain to do a proper flush by hand. It will be worse when I start up-potting to 5g pots in flower, so I'm hoping Drip Clean is the answer.
...If you were bucks-up and had a smaller grow I suppose you could run 2 blumats per pot (1 food, 1 water only) off separate manifolds and reservoirs (or 1 straight off the tap with a pressure reducer.) Then you can simply switch them back and forth as needed, wouldn't that be handy?
irrigation lines
First, feed the system water from BOTH ENDS i.e. a loop. At the res, the proper set up is with both ends of the loop plugged into the res separately (you need an extra thru-hull fitting), rather than plugged into a T coming from a single exit on your reservoir. [see picture thumbnail] Now you have a water supply loop. This is important.
Second, I put a "T" with a bit of hose and shut off valve somewhere around the middle of the loop,and use this to purge a gallon or two from the line about once a week.
You can see/feel the bubbles leaving.Just connect both ends of the water hose to the reservoir, instead of using the end piece. At the res, put a "t" fitting. Connect both ends of your water distribution line to the T. Now you have a water supply loop. The loop is routine maintenance to flush out air bubbles which can cause problems in the system - it's like bleeding your brakes.
2 other maintenance tasks mentioned were to loosen your valves from time to time to flush out any nute chunks, and move the hose slightly to be sure you're not crimping it.
I would recommend (if you're running more than one blumat per pot) that you DONT put them both on one tee, if the bottom of that particular tee clogged, that plant would be hurting. I cross them up so it gets one Blumat off one tee, and another Blumat off the neighboring tee. If one clogs, the other will probably still function. Better to have slightly underwatered plants than dead ones right?
When a line clogs just pull the house out of the blumat and suck on it, and then spit!
the bleeder valve is necessary for the looped feeder line set up. GDbud suggested using a open line to vent, and that's been working problem free for me for a few months now, no bleeder valve. basically you put a T right after your thru-hull, one side faces down, and your feed line is run off that, and the other faces up, and you put 6-12" of line on that and leave the end open. that way any bubbles in your line can float up and out.
Insulate (cover) any lines exposed to bright light, and do a good purge at least once a week.
tube sizing
A summary of tubing diameters: The 3mm silicone line that drips is 3mm OD (outside diameter). This is very close to 3/32 inch ID (inside diameter). Blumat supply line is 8mm OD which equates to 1/4 inch ID. It is stiff and wants to stay in a curled shape. A hot water soak will help it unwind.
the MM tubing you need is NOT universal or found anywhere, it's 2mm ID/3MM OD silicone tubing and you MUST use the stuff from Tropf Blumat or it won't work right (the material has to be very soft for the valve to pinch it shut.) Past that, you CAN use 3/32" barbed nylon plastic tees from kentsystems.com to connect them into any hose or manifold you want.
The extra 3mm tubing just allows you to run the 8mm on the floor - and then have enough 3mm tubing to run up to your pot with a bit of slack for movement. the deal with the 3mm hosing is that it's MUCH MORE CONVENIENT to have long drip lines, which allows you to move your plants around. the feeder hose (8mm) is difficult to work with, and not very flexible.
....If I were starting over I'd just get the sensers, lots of the 3mm tubing, the little barbs from kent systems.com , 1/2' tubing from your hydro store and that's it.
Attachments
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flow-
awesome summary! that's a great service to the community.
the one thing i noticed that might be changed is when you talk about the looped system. the proper set up is with both ends of the loop plugged into the res separately (you need an extra thru-hull fitting), rather than plugged into a T coming from a single exit on your reservoir.
awesome summary! that's a great service to the community.
the one thing i noticed that might be changed is when you talk about the looped system. the proper set up is with both ends of the loop plugged into the res separately (you need an extra thru-hull fitting), rather than plugged into a T coming from a single exit on your reservoir.
N
NextUp
I love the Blu! I'm thinking about them in my system.
But i ask ( so i can put "my" idea to rest and buy the set!)
Why not just run a small water pump in res. with a distribution baffle,
to break up one line into multi hose's. You attach each hose to a drip ring on the surface of each plant. You run the pump off a digi timer and run the pump about 10-30 seconds (time as needed to water the pots)?????
This way you CAN USE nutes, larger diameter hose (cheaper) Less clog. No way to flood the system, as your using head pressure up too the pots, check valve on water line so when pumps off water cant free flow out of the res....
But i ask ( so i can put "my" idea to rest and buy the set!
)Why not just run a small water pump in res. with a distribution baffle,
to break up one line into multi hose's. You attach each hose to a drip ring on the surface of each plant. You run the pump off a digi timer and run the pump about 10-30 seconds (time as needed to water the pots)?????
This way you CAN USE nutes, larger diameter hose (cheaper) Less clog. No way to flood the system, as your using head pressure up too the pots, check valve on water line so when pumps off water cant free flow out of the res....
With the blumats, the plant controls the moisture level. As the plant grows and uses more water or the conditions change, the blumats compensate to keep the moisture level the same. The method that you are describing requires you to determine the moisture level (same as you would with the blumats), but as the plant and environment changes, you need to change your settings to accommodate the changes. Pumping out a feed line with paralleled lines breaking off of it is never going to give you matched outputs - the water is going to flow heaviest on the path of least resistance.
