Blumat auto watering

[Jhhnn]

I posted a commentary of my first blumat grow here-

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7066856&postcount=53

With more pics in my albums. Blumats are pure freaking dynamite.

 

[dr-dank]

Mulling this salt build up thing. Seems to me we have physics at work and I have a theory.

In short, a continuous feed can work assuming the below is true:

transpiration rate (tr) == salt/nute uptake (su).

When tr == su then you can go long term w/o salt build up. When tr > su then you will get a salt build up, but its a function of how mismatched the two are as to how long any such buildup may take to exceed acceptable levels.

The general goal is to make it 8 weeks, which does permit some mismatch. IOW, its likely not drip clean but well matched (or lucky) tr to su ratios.

As for me, I believe I have a high tr compared to most. This because:

1. Live in so-cal, has been hot.
2. Passive cooling, lots of air.
3. 600 watt hps ~ 30" above a 2x3' closet grow.
4. switched to roots/smart pots (1g) for the plant in question;I believe these promote transpiration over the plastic ones.

As noted, BMs have the unique ability to turn off when wet. For those that have a DTW setup this means its repetitively easy to do periodic flushing while also dripping low strength (now about 300 ppm .5 scale) to allow for a few days of auto-run.

Sort of a best of both. Saves water, eases burden, guarantees no salt build up (or deficiencies due to low strength) via a period reset via the flush w/full strength solution.

This is my plan, anyway...

FWIW, also switched to jacks/cal-nit. Started new feed last night.

Regards

 

[ChasingGreen]

Do you only use the Tropf ones or do the regular ones work as well? The ones where it doesn't have to be hooked up to drip line, the ceramic thing just connects directly to a pot of water via the tube?

 

[rives]

Do you only use the Tropf ones or do the regular ones work as well? The ones where it doesn't have to be hooked up to drip line, the ceramic thing just connects directly to a pot of water via the tube?

The Tropf Blumats are the only ones that work for our purposes long term. The "Jr's" are ok for a houseplant, but are a constant siphon design rather than maintaining a given moisture level. Also, they flow through the ceramic rather than a hose, so they would have a hard time with both high flows and nutrients in the solution.

 

[LostInEthereal]

Definitely the Tropf version. The other feeds through the cone which doesn't allow for nutes, and isn't nearly as effective. Also uses siphoning to draw water instead of gravity or pressure like some are using.

 

[ChasingGreen]

Thank you guys for the info! Good to know, as I was going to start with the simple one, looked too easy! So with the tropf version, I have to have a tank of water suspended somehow (set on a TV tray for example) to give the pressure if this is to be used in a tent, correct? For the tank of water, do I need to have an airstone in there? Obviously it needs to be completely light proof, but anything else to know?

 

[LostInEthereal]

I think the consensus is no to the air stone, just creates bubbles in the mixture which could result in vapor lock in the 3mm line and possibly a run-away. Now you can have a dual res setup with lower either constantly pumping to the top or topping with a float valve or simply on a timer. I think the current theory is enough oxygenation occurs at the point of the drip, negating the need for an aerated res? IDK for sure, kind of a stoner over here.

I just have a 5-gal bucket on a small drawer next to the tent, only nets about 3' of head, but has been enough for my small garden so far. Planning on setting up a pressurized system for the flowering tent and moving the 5-gal res over by the veg tent.

Welcome aboard! I think you'll find plenty of friendly knowledgeable people in this thread, and an immense amount of free-time back if you follow through with it.

 

[Jhhnn]

Thank you guys for the info! Good to know, as I was going to start with the simple one, looked too easy! So with the tropf version, I have to have a tank of water suspended somehow (set on a TV tray for example) to give the pressure if this is to be used in a tent, correct? For the tank of water, do I need to have an airstone in there? Obviously it needs to be completely light proof, but anything else to know?

Aeration is unnecessary, at least when using plain water & soil, which is what blumats are actually for. With plain water, the res doesn't really need to be light proof. The blumat instructions say that the bottom of the reservoir should be at least 1M, 39" above the drippers.

Their kits work OK, but if you like 'em & want to optimize them you'll want more stuff, more bits & pieces to do it really well.

 

[marmarb]

When setting up the top Rez. What size drill tip is needed for the tank connector

 

[LeeROI]

People say Drip Clean is a solution of PeKacid. From the ICL ferts site: "PeKacid™ is an acidic PK fertilizer for fertigation with formula 0-60-20 (60% P2O5 and 20% K2O). Pekacid is a crystalline product, nitrogen free as well as sodium and chlorine free.

PeKacid™ is intended for soil-less as well as open-field horticulture fertigation applications, and is well-suited for use in blends of fully-soluble fertilizers as a tool for incorporating calcium, magnesium and micronutrients into the mixed fertilizers. Due to its acidic nature, PeKacid has an anticlogging action and enhances nutrients’ uptake."

From Drip Clean MSDS: "Cleaning agent guaranteed analysis
Available Phosphate (P205) 24,0%; Soluble Potash (K20) 8%.
Derived from:
Phosphoric acid anhydride, Potassium oxide."

 

[dr-dank]

When setting up the top Rez. What size drill tip is needed for the tank connector

IIRC, 1/2". I used a unibit and stopped at the notch before 1/2" so as to have a tight, almost threaded connection. The manual specs 12mm. 12mm is .47".

 

[dr-dank]

People say Drip Clean is a solution of PeKacid. From the ICL ferts site: "PeKacid™ is an acidic PK fertilizer for fertigation with formula 0-60-20 (60% P2O5 and 20% K2O). Pekacid is a crystalline product, nitrogen free as well as sodium and chlorine free.

PeKacid™ is intended for soil-less as well as open-field horticulture fertigation applications, and is well-suited for use in blends of fully-soluble fertilizers as a tool for incorporating calcium, magnesium and micronutrients into the mixed fertilizers. Due to its acidic nature, PeKacid has an anticlogging action and enhances nutrients’ uptake."

From Drip Clean MSDS: "Cleaning agent guaranteed analysis
Available Phosphate (P205) 24,0%; Soluble Potash (K20) 8%.
Derived from:
Phosphoric acid anhydride, Potassium oxide."

Thanks for engaging on drip clean efficacy debate.

While my current fert lists both P205 and K20, the derived from is different. Mono-potassium phosphate and potassium nitrate.

So, am I to believe that while the final molecule is the same (K205) the different source has some acidity factor that actually makes it different then what is in the feed solution already.

Hmm. Seems like the final ph adjust would negate all this added acidity.

Edit: Giving benefit of the doubt, I can see this working to scour salts from a drip line. There is flow past a given point... I'm still hung up on how this can work in a constant feed no-runoff long-term grow. There is no where for all the scoured salt to go...

 

[LeeROI]

I've never wrapped my head around the Drip Clean mechanism. Works great with Blumats, though. The only salts I've ever seen were on the outside of fabric pots that had been sitting with oversaturated coco. I've cut open solid root masses after harvest--where did the chemicals go?

Edit: there are often small, white salt crystals grown inside the cone when I let a pot dry out with the carrot in place. At first, I thought the salt threads were roots.

 

[Kozmo]

I plan on setting up my blumats in a 72"x16"x14" geo pot bed. Going to do a SCROG with six plants total. Already have the Patio set which comes with 5 carrots, so ill just put one in between each plant. It'll be a fresh mix of soil which will be living and no till. Ill use foliar and top feeding as well as a watering regiment. Just going to run airated water through the blumats. No ferts.

 

[Lapides]

I plan on setting up my blumats in a 72"x16"x14" geo pot bed. Going to do a SCROG with six plants total. Already have the Patio set which comes with 5 carrots, so ill just put one in between each plant. It'll be a fresh mix of soil which will be living and no till. Ill use foliar and top feeding as well as a watering regiment. Just going to run airated water through the blumats. No ferts.

I'm doing almost exactly the same as this, only with 4 - 48"x48"x12" geoplanters under 4kW. No scrog tho either, I just prefer to use stakes.

This is a VERY easy way to grow.

 

[Kozmo]

.

 

[Goldrush509]

was wondering if I could get away with 2 carrots in a 10gal container?

 

[Jhhnn]

was wondering if I could get away with 2 carrots in a 10gal container?

Dunno why not. Single carrots in 5 gal fabric pots work well for me.

 

[Genes]

I have a couple of questions for the seasoned pros over here. Thanks for all the info amassed thus far! I could not have wrapped my head around this and gotten this far to go ahead without the essay of information and everyone's contributions. I am pretty much ready to pull the trigger and buy everything I need. I just want to get a confirmation to a couple design ideas and overall plan from some people who have been in a similar mindset and applications. I have a limited budget for the planned upgrades, and a couple ideas where to spend it, and even more upgrade possibilities then I like to admit. However.. here is what we can/will work with.


For starters, the garden to be watered will be situated on a 4x8 ebb and flo table. Currently lit with 3x600w cooltube fixtures. An upgrade idea here would be to add a 3x3 table beside the 4x8, and buy two light rails, two trolleys, two push-bars, and 3 parabolic 4' fixtures with mogul extensions to travel across the room and back. (around summer time a scale down would probably be in order)

Anyways.. imagining ~60plants on the 4x8.. They will be planted into coco with an undetermined amount of perlite added. My understanding is that 30% seems to give greater results with a moister setting on the sensors (closer to DTW or small runoff), than straight coco with the same moisture settings. Pot size for the 60 plants is between [2ltr 5.5" square pots] or [1 or 2 gallon smartpot/root pouch]. Talk is in the air of canopy management stress and labor, so maybe 40 on the 4x8 with [2 or 3 gallon smartpot/rootpouch]


For clarification, the fabric root pruning pots are leagues above traditional pots in terms of root manipulation/pruning help with the constant root level moisture controlled by sensors vs. wet/dry cycles in a traditional closed wall structured pot if I am not mistaken?


Now this is where my confusions/concerns/hesitations come in: reservoir/supply line sizing pressure requirements. There is a 40gal low-pro available under the table, to be plumbed to a top-up-timed 5gal bucket at 4.5' above the ground, with the pots/sensors 1.5-2' above the ground. I was leaning towards two 1/2" through-hills at the bottom of the bucket to connect a "U" shaped loop of 1/2" tube around the table back up to the res with petcocks to allow for disconnect when full of water and not draining the supply line. Can't forget the "T" in the middle of the loop for purging, going to petcock and plumb it back to 40gal. How many plants can this idea support when plumbed directly from 1/2"poly to the 3mm drip line.


Off my 1/2" hydrostore poly tube, I was interested in the kentsystems quick connect couplings (QC). I believe this is the simplest and most flexible option with a lot of plants: tubing connections are as follows.


[1/2"polytube]-> [3mm shut-off female QC]x[3mm open-flow triggering male QC] ->[3mm drip line attached to sensor]. approx 3$ per QC coupling pair if I am not mistaken.
Otherwise, to save some dollars for another upgrade.... I imagine 3mm->3mm hose union barbs in the 1/2" and the barb caps as goof plugs instead of QCs. Cost is now ~50cents a pair. Is this groovy?


Anyways, I think that is is for now. I hope this is not too far off from a ready to go concept. I am pretty ansy to buy the parts and set it up to get some life back! If anyone here notices any thing flawed or to be improved, please do not hesitate to critique and insult, or praise. (doubtfull)


Genes.

 

[Genes]

My understanding is that you could indeed do that, or go with a maxi. Though I have only read one or two hundred pages on these though, no first hand experience knowledge.