Bitcoin cracks US$100

[unspoken]

I saw a professor of finance at some university saying that regulators will have jurisdiction over the point of exchange. This is where the problem will come from in the future. The problem right now is coming from a lack of regulation. No problem if you want to ddos or hack the exchanges. No problem to collude to manipulate/insider trading. Do we think the same people are going to do the same thing with ltc? Make millions, rinse, repeat? Maybe time to grab some lite coins just in case

 

[SpasticGramps]

No problem to collude to manipulate/insider trading.

Sounds like Bernanke's Market. Only the so called "regulators" are the manipulators.

Is that that morally justifiable?

 

[unspoken]

Yes, because they are manipulating it for a different reason. You understand that they don't really "want" to be manipulating the market, but they do it because they feel a moral obligation to, right? That is why those people are selected for long terms and not voted in. Their job is designed for them to catch all of the shit and backlash from people like you when the economy goes bad. It's also their job to put on the breaks when things are going too well, which they have failed to do a couple times (dot com, housing bubbles). I give them partial blame for those events, but it's a tough call to make (are we in a bubble or is this the new normal?). It's easy for guys like bass to be negative all of the time during a depression and win. He is going to be right for a while, but eventually he will have to change his view. To Bass, the best I can tell, negative is the new normal, things will just get worse and worse. He and you are making the same(type 2) error that they did by letting the bubbles get out of control.

What is the consequence of not manipulating money supply? You will say nothing, the market will work on its own, it's natural, leave it alone....I understand your point, I just completely disagree with it. We could be a hell of a lot worse off than we are now for a longer period of time without adjustments. Yes, definitely they are using blunt tools to work on the economy, no one is trying to argue that everything is perfectly controlled, but it's better than not doing anything. The best I can tell you subscribe to classical theory(complete crowding out, govt can not increase gdp output via spending), and we just have difference of opinion on this issue: When the economy is bad you feel it is more moral to let the market operate naturally via self-correcting mechanisms, I feel it is a moral imperative that we must work to correct it to the best of our ability. That is our disagreement, and I have no problem agreeing to disagree.

 

[bombadil.360]

It's a fascinating subject friend, and I could discuss it for hours, preferably with some good philosophical weed to hand!

It is interesting though, that until it's recent electronic applications, apart from some use in dentistry, it had absolutely no practical value, aside from bling, that is.

Why should a useless finite resource turn out more valuable than a useful one?
Come to think of it why should scarcity be a criterion for money? Just the messed up way we humans think...
Why not, say, wheat, or water, or iron or bricks or seeds or stuff we really need to live?

the answer is quite simple actually:

it is because we have arbitrarily created this thing called 'value' out of our imagination.

and we want to find this arbitrary thing we called 'value' represented in some material element that we can hold with our hands and look at with our eyes.

but the problem is that there is no relation between the natural world (the one we perceive with our senses) and our imaginary arbitrary world that puts forth this 'value' thing.

we cannot really find this one thing that can represent this imaginary value we have summed up.

we have also defined the meaning of 'value' in a ridiculous manner; exactly as the one used to assign arbitrary 'value' to gold.

if we had defined 'value' in an actual realistic way, we'd be assigning 'value' to much more important things, some even, that do not posses a material form that can be beheld with the crude senses; things such as honesty and logic come to mind.

and things that we do find in the natural world, like you mentioned, water, ecosystems as a whole for example (already discussed this in a similar thread or this one), make for greater reasonable 'objects of value'.

the problem is that we have an intelligence crisis world-wide, and the ability of the regular joe to understand this is beyond his capabilities; so the gold watch wins.

 

[wantaknow]

bc mainframe has been hacked ,its not as secure as the the hacker who designed it thought it was ,it will crash soon

 

[dagnabit]

ill give you an honesty and two logics for a sack of potatoes and a loaf of bread?

nah gold is easier to spend..

 

[FlowerFarmer]

bc mainframe has been hacked ,its not as secure as the the hacker who designed it thought it was ,it will crash soon

?? Source?


None of these issues are with bitcoin itself. The problems bitcoin has been experiencing are related to the exchanges themselves. Many are getting DDOS attacks on their servers. Others are getting shut down by their banks.

It is rather obvious that banks do not want this to make anymore ground then it already has.


Bitcoin is not the problem, but rather the rapidly growing infrascture being built around the community paired with the resistance banks are putting up to dissuade this alternative currency.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

ill give you an honesty and two logics for a sack of potatoes and a loaf of bread?

nah gold is easier to spend..

How do you spend gold over the web?


They both have their place. That is why bitcoin is so exciting. It is similar to gold in many ways only digital. A potentially great alternative to currency once it gets past it's inherent growing pains.

Keep your physical gold (real money) safe and secure, while transacting all over the globe with minimal restrictions and fees using bitcoin. Rather then converting in an out of bitcoin for USD, buy gold using your bitcoins to secure your wealth. All of this outside of the current corrupt banking systems. Sounds good to me.



Western Union and MoneyGram are looking at the possibility of transacting in bit-coins. <-- that is huge news. Even if bitcoin only takes a fraction of marketplace in terms of peer to peer transactions and online payments.. the potential of bit-coin is staggering.

 

[bombadil.360]

ill give you an honesty and two logics for a sack of potatoes and a loaf of bread?

nah gold is easier to spend..

assignation of value to something truly valuable, does not translate as currency used to represent said value in exchanges.

not betting on you understanding that either my 'lil grasshopper.

 

[TripleDraw27]

lol

 

[skullznroses]

you just made $240000 off of bitcoins??

don't spend it all and forget your $120000 in taxes... lol

 

[chefboy6969]

yea that's called capital gains....you must pay taxes on it...

 

[SpasticGramps]

Ron Paul On Bitcoin: "If I Can't Put It In My Pocket, I Have Reservations"

I share his sentiment about BitCoin.

I'm excited about it, but at the moment, if I can't physically see, touch, or control my investment, I'm not game to put my money in it.

Fizzy anything or bust.

Like I said I may allocate part of my portfolio in the future, but not until the mania subsides.

Until then I'm all about waterfront (fresh water) property and cap ex investments in private entities that I hold voting rights in.

 

[devilgoob]

spastic cramps. compound word for you; paypal.

BTW, I'm a genius like that kid Grandma's Boy!!111111 lol

 

[opiumo]

Ron Paul On Bitcoin: "If I Can't Put It In My Pocket, I Have Reservations"

I share his sentiment about BitCoin.

I'm excited about it, but at the moment, if I can't physically see, touch, or control my investment, I'm not game to put my money in it.

Excuse me sir but you i would like to post link on the subject in matter, mind if i do?

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/03/bitcoin-ring/

Copy pasted from the article:Around the time that Allinvain got hacked two years ago, a Salt Lake City, Utah Bitcoin enthusiast named Mike Caldwell started thinking about ways of creating physical Bitcoins — metal coins engraved with hidden, tamper-protected private keys that could be exchanged much like money. He calls them Casascius coins. Casascius is a word he made up. It’s derived, he says, from an acronym for “call a spade a spade.”

At first, Caldwell thought he’d be making a quirky collectable that would only interest a fringe audience, but since he started minting his Bitcoins, he’s produced about 15,000 physical coins and (for serious collectors) gold-plated bars, ranging in denomination from 0.5BTC to 1,000BTC. Bitcoin values have been on a bit of a surge lately, so he’s also looking at minting aluminum 0.1BTC coins pretty soon.

 

[TripleDraw27]

Theres a crypto dude I follow on twitter named. Fontas
He made 1.2mill off this last bubble. Full of knowledge and interesting tid bits. Hes interesting cause he made a mill off crypto's lol. But is truly a day trader with that type of mind for graphs , charts etc. Interesting guy.

A site with basic info, if someone is face palming about this shit

cryptojunky.com real basics and crypto news.

I also mine btc's in a pool with many others, nerds with beast machines etc. On a real low level. I average one btc a week, but thats cool cause i can trade that btc to ltc or other various fluctuating crypto monies at my trading site btc-e.com ( think penny stocks ) and its cool cause its not scared money.


gl

 

[FlowerFarmer]

What kind of hardware/equipment and electricity costs are you incurring to mine around 1 BTC per week?

Even 1 per week could quickly add up and/or pay a car note each month.



o how I wish I would have put more thought into bitcoin when I 1st discovered it in its infancy. Appeared too difficult for me at the time so I lost interest.

 

[TripleDraw27]

What kind of hardware/equipment and electricity costs are you incurring to mine around 1 BTC per week?

Even 1 per week could quickly add up and/or pay a car note each month.



o how I wish I would have put more thought into bitcoin when I 1st discovered it in its infancy. Appeared too difficult for me at the time so I lost interest.

My comp, just a typical comp. Mac 2.6 ghz intel core i5. Nothing compared to a serious miner.

I have never calculated it, i usually just go to btc guild, which is my pool i mine at. Sometimes I use BitMinter which is Mac friendly, and they are cool because, when mining btc, you also yield Namecoins ( another cryptocurrency), and on my exchange I use- btc-e.com, you can trade namecoins with btc. Our comps are always on anyhow. Due to our other hobby, I dont see any signif change. But I mine the btc just so i can fuck off with the other smaller cryp currencies.

Dont mine with mac laptops lol sizzle

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^it is not a scam. money in general is a scam in the long run. lol

 

[c-ray]

some interesting comments at the link below

from http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2013/04/26/business-bitcoin-tax.html

Revenue Canada says BitCoins aren't tax exempt
Just in time for tax season, the Canada Revenue Agency says the users of Bitcoins will have to pay tax on transactions in the upstart digital currency.
Apr 26, 2013

The price of online currency BitCoin has skyrocketed this month as speculators flocked into the market. (Rick Bowmer/Associated Press)

Just in time for tax season, the Canada Revenue Agency says the users of Bitcoins will have to pay tax on transactions in the upstart digital currency.

BitCoins are a fringe online currency that entered the mainstream this year after speculators rushed in and caused their value to more than quadruple in value. Originally designed as a virtual currency alternative to conventional money, the cash value of a BitCoin jumped from under $50 US to above $250 and back earlier this month, as speculators flooded the market after awareness of them grew.

Price swings like that mean some BitCoin buyers and sellers likely made or lost a lot of money, which raises the question of how that will be handled come tax time.

The issue is not just academic. Saskatoon realtor Paul Chavady said he has listed a house priced in BitCoins, and has found clients willing to pay his fees in the electronic currency.

"When you sell [the BitCoins], they will deposit that in your account," said Chavady. "As soon as it turns into Canadian dollars, it's back in the eyes of the CRA and everybody else. If you get a big deposit of $10,000, or $100,000, [CRA is] going to say, 'Hey, where did that come from?'"

Indeed, the tax man has already thought of that.

The CRA told the CBC there are two separate tax rules that apply to the electronic currency, depending on whether they are used as money to buy things or if they were merely bought and sold for speculative purposes.

"Barter transaction rules apply where BitCoins are used to purchase goods or services," Canada Revenue Agency spokesman Philippe Brideau said in an email.

Barter is the exchange of one good for another good without the use of cash, such as when a farmer who grows vegetables trades with another who raises chickens. Many Canadians don't realize such exchanges are taxable, but they are.

Paragraph 3 of the CRA's Interpretation Bulletin IT-490 clearly states that in a barter transaction between arm’s-length persons, "we generally consider that the value of whatever is received is at least equal to the value of whatever is given up."

In the above example, that means whatever you've received in exchange for your $1 worth of vegetables must be documented as a taxable gain of at least $1 somewhere.

Investing gains
When it comes to trading BitCoins for profit, the tax man says there are tax implications there, too.

"When BitCoins are bought or sold like a commodity, any resulting gains or losses could be income or capital for the taxpayer depending on the specific facts," ruled the CRA.

That section is covered in paragraphs nine through 32 of the CRA's section IT-479R, Transactions in Securities, "which provide general comments for purposes of determining whether transactions are income or capital in nature."

Regina currency trader Jeff Cliff already had that figured out. He's been trading BitCoins for three years and said he claims them on his taxes by converting it to the Canadian dollar equivalent. But, Cliff said, it is an honour system.

"It's fairly anonymous system," he said. "I'm not so much into the privacy side of it, so that's why I claim it."

Some advocates of the electronic currency, which only exists as unique codes in complex crytpographic algorithms, have said one of its advantages is that it can be traded and moved across national boundaries without governments being aware.

But as the CRA statement shows, governments are starting to pay attention.