Biopiracy in the search for Landraces.<--on going discussion, please be civil in your choice of words and grammer.

[Plookerkingjon]

The shitty thing is that most PEople, when i tell them that old Landraces are special, guess what, 99 Percent dont understand shit, they watch with empty eyes when i tell it, but have no idea what im talking about. The only thing they think of is Apple Trees wich are kind of Semi-wild i guess.




I'm not only that but it's been my experience that a lot of folks just don't want to have to put the work in and see 456 grows under their belt before they get something that they think for whatever reason is sexy or appealing. I can tell you firsthand when I had no access to my own homegrown I would be subjected to the local guys that would grow and a lot of times the s*** that would come from Outdoors that look just like basic bagweed without perform the best indoor the college kids were smoking because the college kids had some f****** bottlenecked Indica hybrid that locked him to a couch and left them unmotivated whereas some Vermont farmer New England farmer New Hampshire wherever the case have been back then usually Northern New York Northern Vermont Northern New Hampshire or northern Maine we're supplying a good part of the East Coast when I was growing up with phenomenal outdoor plants that I think were mainly hard to see what the helicopter didn't have a massive odor profile that attracted unwanted attention and had mold and pest prevention in them that made it so that they were easy to grow outdoors with little to no oversight what the f*** do I know though I've only had a relationship with this plant since 1989 I'm an idiot

 

[Plookerkingjon]

So you're saying ignorance and greed is a HUGE factor here, yes?

Well that and think of all the products that people have developed and brought out to society that help people be lazy

 

[linde]

The true landrace days are about over due to accessibility and technology....unless u can fly into to some remote tropical island that has not been affected by the modern world. Go ask some native growers for some of their seed stock. I've got a friend that has some connections with Jamaica and he went there in search of some good sativa landrace....He asked what the seed stock was and guess what the locals said? Dutch genetic!! Well well well imagine that. So much for Jamaican landrace. I can guarantee the same goes for Mexican and Columbian and pretty much everywhere else. Hate to burst your bubble people but the landrace days are pretty much over. I agree with the post a while back about prohibition contributing to the demise. If cannabis were legal during the Golden Years we could have more easily isolated and worked with these fragile genetics. You can thank Reagan and the War on Drugs for that one.

 

[Nannymouse]

It's my opinion that if an area was anywhere near any one of the many trade routes (amber, spice, silk, etc) that Cannabis was there...and traded. Pollen travels a long way. Probably Cannabis was traded even before the trade routes were 'established'. Mother Nature just culled out the types that were not suitable for the area. That has been ongoing, and will continue.

I'm against patenting life, in general, as has been mentioned before. And yet, i realize that i probably couldn't stop the patenting, if i tried. So, there's the reality. Yet, if i could, i would like to see that certain 'landraces' were preserved and perhaps 'certified' to be within the genetic range of said landrace genes. Then, let the ones who have gone to the expense of keeping their landraces within that range, set a price that covers their costs and allows them to afford to continue. They would have extra costs to keep their lines within the genetic borders of what is considered 'that particular' landrace. Obviously, there will be those who will purchase seed from those who do this work(although they may whine like little babies, over the price...such is life) Once again, reality gets in my way, but if people did this for 'love' instead of $, our weed could all be 'free'.

Also, consider the consequences of climate change. What is growing in an area NOW, may not survive the same area in twenty years. THAT has very probably been going on for thousands of years for Cannabis, also. It has had to adapt to changes. So, what you may consider a 'landrace' may have undergone adaption changes that make it NOT like it was, maybe a couple of hundred(or thousand) years ago. And just maybe, if it were not for 'hybridization', Cannabis would not have survived in certain areas, at all.

Just some opinions and thoughts. I retain my right to change my mind.

 

[linde]

Another thing when the Dutch came out with the first round of the hydrids mid 80s...EVERYBODY jumped on that bandwagon. You could get plants that budded a month quick with more resinous buds...and to a farmer in Mexico or Columbia that was more money for them. SO...they grew and crossed the newer better strains with their strains not knowing or even thinking about the consequences it would do on the gene pool years down the road.

 

[[Maschinenhaus]]

Crossbreeding with genetics from other locations is a 1980's -2000's thing only??

The spread began with sailing ships, then hemp was in demand in industry, along with linen. The first Levis jeans was probably made of hemp fiber? And yes, not all professional growers or seed banks are gangsters.

I am proud to own old varieties and old school hybrids like the Durban, or an Orange Bud, NLX etc.. Especially the Durban from Sensi Seeds is now only 95% available, my current Durban IBL was still 100% when I bought it in Amsterdam, as well as the Orange Bud. There are top breeders like the guys from French Touch Seeds, the NLX from Seedy Simon is awesome.

The St. Vincent, also from Seedy Simon is a beautiful still unadulterated landrace.

Nevertheless, I think it is very important not to leave cannabis to the industry and hope that everything will be fine.

Respect to you all!

 

[Plookerkingjon]

They probably used cannabis as an aphrodisiac back then I bet

 

[Nannymouse]

I cannot condemn hybridization, at all. Okay, i come from a generation that had to grow under old flouro shop lights. Lighting and indoor growing had a ton of influence on what happened in the past...and how the 'present' came to be. Very few of us, today, could grow an equatorial if it were not for the advances in lighting. Crossing in the first Affies with the equatorials was what made much of the indoor growing possible. I'll not bash those who made that possible.

 

[[Maschinenhaus]]

The trend towards more and more THC, towards wilder and wilder crosses is a dead end in my opinion.

If you are young and wild, a strain with 30% THC can be great. In Europe, especially in my country, we have massive problems, there are more and more problems with such strains among young people. This should not be taken lightly with the psychological consequences of extreme THC levels.

Or pain patients like me who are dependent on opiates are glad that there are old, pure varieties that are relaxing and encouraging and do not shoot you into nirvana.

A Transkei from the 60s will certainly still be liked today as a Transkei from 2022 where is no longer traceable what is in it? I invite everyone with pleasure once on a taste? ;-)

 

[linde]

I cannot condemn hybridization, at all. Okay, i come from a generation that had to grow under old flouro shop lights. Lighting and indoor growing had a ton of influence on what happened in the past...and how the 'present' came to be. Very few of us, today, could grow an equatorial if it were not for the advances in lighting. Crossing in the first Affies with the equatorials was what made much of the indoor growing possible. I'll not bash those who made that possible.

I don't think this thread was made to BASH hybridization. In my opinion the first Dutch hybrids were the best strains the world has ever seen and will ever see. Mid 80s-Early 90s stuff because their breeding stock WAS pure landrace... A couple generations later or by the mid 90s it was already getting bred out... It came quick and it left quick. Now all we have to work with is mucked up genetics. We can blame the Dutch for that. They were the forerunner in the cannabis industry...Nobody can dispute that. SSSC. Sensi Seeds etc etc .. They did bring the world the best cannabis but by doing so also contributed to it's demise as we see today. Shit washed out genetics. Just like the old saying "Nothing good ever lasts" There is a lot of truth to that expression.

 

[Nannymouse]

...well, i don't consider today's hybrids as shit washed out. What is your basis for saying that? Do you think that today's herb is so much inferior to any of the herb grown at historical crossroads of trade? Do the cannabinoid levels test out so much less than landraces? The terp/flavinoid levels? No offense, but i need more than just opinion, on that.

Most of the landraces brought in from secluded areas test out way less, some taste...well, gross or bland. It is very nice to find some 'landraces' that are superior.

Sure, Neanderthal and Denisovan peoples were probably okay, enough. But saying that humans are washed out shit genetics because the Neanderthals and Denisovans could not keep up with life as it was/is, sounds like what you are expressing in Cannabis terms.

I guess that i just need something more concrete to back up those ideas. I was around before the 80's and 90's, so i have some experience with the older Cannabis. Had a lot that was only good when hashed, had some where it could send me under the covers, clutching the bed, hoping not to die. The 'in-between stuff' seems pretty good, and that's where we find most of today's genetics.

 

[linde]

...well, i don't consider today's hybrids as shit washed out. What is your basis for saying that? Do you think that today's herb is so much inferior to any of the herb grown at historical crossroads of trade? Do the cannabinoid levels test out so much less than landraces? The terp/flavinoid levels? No offense, but i need more than just opinion, on that.

Most of the landraces brought in from secluded areas test out way less, some taste...well, gross or bland. It is very nice to find some 'landraces' that are superior.

Sure, Neanderthal and Denisovan peoples were probably okay, enough. But saying that humans are washed out shit genetics because the Neanderthals and Denisovans could not keep up with life as it was/is, sounds like what you are expressing in Cannabis terms.

I guess that i just need something more concrete to back up those ideas. I was around before the 80's and 90's, so i have some experience with the older Cannabis. Had a lot that was only good when hashed, had some where it could send me under the covers, clutching the bed, hoping not to die. The 'in-between stuff' seems pretty good, and that's where we find most of today's genetics.

Flavor, smell and burn quality. Yes.

 

[Nannymouse]

That wasn't very concrete. You have terp analysis comparisons that you could use, possibly for the flavor/smell comparisons from labs. I don't know if any 'burn quality' tests have been done.

It would be interesting to see the various labs collect their data and give a report on landrace vs polyhybrid averages and extremes.

 

[linde]

That wasn't very concrete. You have terp analysis comparisons that you could use, possibly for the flavor/smell comparisons from labs. I don't know if any 'burn quality' tests have been done.

It would be interesting to see the various labs collect their data and give a report on landrace vs polyhybrid averages and extremes.

I hope u don't believe those "lab" results...I smoked some dispencery stuff with 28% THC the other day. What a joke. Paper buds! Burned up hot and quick absolutely no resining of the joint. No flavor and most importantly not much buzz. 28%???? My ass! 3, 4 5% terps?? How can u have terps when there is no flavor? Don't believe everything u read.

 

[grayeyes]

yes @grayeyes, but Feminized Seed x Regular Male produced a Seed that i grew next season, so. it did reproduce.. or do you mean it wont reproduce yet again a generation later?

You attempt to quote me out of context. Of course a feminized and regular male will produce seed. No seed from feminized by itself is what I was saying.

 

[Nannymouse]

@linde Well, then we are down to just subjective viewpoints from differing experiences. I've had nothing but good experiences with dispensaries, but i'm sure that it varies.

I don't believe everything that i read, you know, ...or i would be believing that you are 100% correct.

I know that this site has many who are very pro-landrace and preservation. Good.

But there are others who have gone to great lengths to create something 'better' than what the landraces can offer when the landraces are out of their area of evolution. As i see it, that's good, too.

 

[linde]

There's a good reason why dope is $100 an ounce in dispensaries now. But that's a whole different argument.

 

[Nannymouse]

i just cannot bring myself to being upset with those who brought landraces into a different part of the world and then hybridized. To me, it's up to the people who live in the landrace area, to keep their lines pure. I would encourage them to do just that. Unless they wish to do else!

 

[linde]

i just cannot bring myself to being upset with those who brought landraces into a different part of the world and then hybridized. To me, it's up to the people who live in the landrace area, to keep their lines pure. I would encourage them to do just that. Unless they wish to do else!

I agree. I prefer hybrids myself....I'm only stating the fact that landrace strains in most cases are worn out and tired and not worth putting in the effort of preserving at least this far along in the genetics game.

 

[Nannymouse]

For many of us, this is true. But, i won't discourage those who have the resources to look for gems.

It's just that i have reverence for the Plant, in all of its forms and functions. Our endocannabinoid systems guide us. What our endocannabinoid system needs, that is where it leads.