Biopiracy in the search for Landraces.<--on going discussion, please be civil in your choice of words and grammer.

[romanoweed]

i myselve have crossed Fems to a Regular Males multiple times, so i was wondering if the Seeds i got , were a Hallucination, or if the sawing of these seeds was a Hallucination.

So i asked again.

 

[fArside617]

i myselve have crossed Fems to a Regular Males multiple times, so i was wondering if the Seeds i got , were a Hallucination, or if the sawing of these seeds was a Hallucination.

So i asked again.

According to Science, this is reality.

 

[grayeyes]

The reality of what I was saying is that a field of feminized seeded plants will not reproduce by themselves.

Please split some other hairs.

 

[fArside617]

The reality of what I was saying is that a field of feminized seeded plants will not reproduce by themselves.

Please split some other hairs.

maybe we are misunderstanding each other?

 

[Old Piney]

yes they will reproduce , those growers have other seeds growing at the same time , the males will pollinate the female plants ,, hey presto , seeds will be made.
its not great practise for companies to be doing such stuff , but it really is just a drop in the ocean ,
the local variety will dominate over the introduced seeds and it wont take long before its hardly noticed ...
i dont agree with it being done , but its not the end of the world ...

How many generations will feminized seed reproduce? I believe the answer is ONE.

yes they will reproduce , those growers have other seeds growing at the same time , the males will pollinate the female plants ,, hey presto , seeds will be made.
its not great practise for companies to be doing such stuff , but it really is just a drop in the ocean ,
the local variety will dominate over the introduced seeds and it wont take long before its hardly noticed ...
i dont agree with it being done , but its not the end of the world ...

I have to disagree the foreign genes being a drop in the bucket, many landrace gene pools have or are being lost this way .Not just with cannabis either. The Malawi farmer is likely to collect seeds from the most productive plants with the largest flowers in this case most likely hybrids. The greenhouse seed folks are just short-sighted, greedy whores.They not only ruin things for all of us but also for themselves.These gene pools are best preserved in their native habitat or at least similar. Under lights or in a greenhouse in the Netherlands, isn't gonna cut it

 

[linde]

Cannabis is constantly evolving. Cannabis plants are like fingerprints. Every pollination of every plant changes the genetics every time it happens. If landraces from the 60s-70s were isolated and kept pure they would still be different today. After 30+ years of inbreeding the genetics will most certainly be worn out and tired. So now what do we do? We have a bunch of tired Landrace strains to work with. Na not for me. I've worked with numerous old landraces strains to try to preserve them but in the end scrapped every project. As much as I hate to say it I'll stick with the hybrids thank you.

 

[Donald Mallard]

I have to disagree the foreign genes being a drop in the bucket, many landrace gene pools have or are being lost this way .Not just with cannabis either. The Malawi farmer is likely to collect seeds from the most productive plants with the largest flowers in this case most likely hybrids. The greenhouse seed folks are just short-sighted, greedy whores.They not only ruin things for all of us but also for themselves.These gene pools are best preserved in their native habitat or at least similar. Under lights or in a greenhouse in the Netherlands, isn't gonna cut it

yea well as i said its not a good thing ,
but in a very large population , a few foreign seeds wouldnt have a massive affect and would be watered down very quickly ,
thats the point i was trying to make ,
i definitely dont agree with doing it and agree those populations are best left unadulterated ..

 

[grayeyes]

Cannabis is constantly evolving. Cannabis plants are like fingerprints. Every pollination of every plant changes the genetics every time it happens. If landraces from the 60s-70s were isolated and kept pure they would still be different today. After 30+ years of inbreeding the genetics will most certainly be worn out and tired. So now what do we do? We have a bunch of tired Landrace strains to work with. Na not for me. I've worked with numerous old landraces strains to try to preserve them but in the end scrapped every project. As much as I hate to say it I'll stick with the hybrids thank you.

Ok, but please keep your seeds. We don't need them.

 

[linde]

Ok, but please keep your seeds. We don't need them.

They're in the mail ..you should get them Wednesday. Lol

 

[romanoweed]

yes @grayeyes, but Feminized Seed x Regular Male produced a Seed that i grew next season, so. it did reproduce.. or do you mean it wont reproduce yet again a generation later?

 

[romanoweed]

If landraces from the 60s-70s were isolated and kept pure they would still be different today.

how do you wanna know.?

i mean if, you mean that gnetics slightly are individual such as you and me, and there will never be a exact copy.
But this is to differ from there wont be other persons on the exact same Level of human skills .. like ,me and you ever on the Planet..


So, IF we continued the same Thing as old Indigenous folks did, then of corse the Weed would stay on the same level..
So, if we imitated what these Folks did, (Greenhouse to shield foreign pollen/ many plants/ Greenhouse subsequently cooled to outside Temperatures) , then i guess the Genetics might stay the same.

I dint mena that i know exactly what would happen. But i meant to say that i researched inbreeding depression, Terroir influencing the Phenotypic expression. Thats why, i conclude that these two factors will probably influence the further living of Thai Columbain, Congolese weed.. I see certain evidence that shows these two steps are important.. hence, i would build a greenhouse on an old Plantage-site , use the same soil, same techniques of selection that they did (strong vs soft bottlenecking) .

With it i would hypothize that i could come much closer to reproducing a Landrace than a small closet with zero thoughts and reserch put into it.. i would also hypothize that it would be hard to teach these Folks to grow their old Tha again like they did.
I know enough of agriculture to suspect the times have often gone , that people grow any Lnadrace, not just Cannabis.. theyre gone.. or atleast often.. With cannbis i see thats the case.. Ok, probably you manage, but i havent time in my live to babysit for decades what they do.. i go to thailand, put my greenhouse, cool it down, pollenfilter.. i can do it . now. right now. im ready. takes me 6 months, plus a couple months preparation. then i store the seeds well for 50 years, and do the same.

 

[linde]

how do you wanna know.?

i mean if, you mean that gnetics slightly are individual such as you and me, and there will never be a exact copy.
But this is to differ from there wont be other persons on the exact same Level of human skills .. like ,me and you ever on the Planet..


So, IF we continued the same Thing as old Indigenous folks did, then of corse the Weed would stay on the same level..
So, if we imitated what these Folks did, (Greenhouse to shield foreign pollen/ many plants/ Greenhouse subsequently cooled to outside Temperatures) , then i guess the Genetics might stay the same.

I dint mena that i know exactly what would happen. But i meant to say that i researched inbreeding depression, Terroir influencing the Phenotypic expression. Thats why, i conclude that these two factors will probably influence the further living of Thai Columbain, Congolese weed.. I see certain evidence that shows these two steps are important.. hence, i would build a greenhouse on an old Plantage-site , use the same soil, same techniques of selection that they did (strong vs soft bottlenecking) .

With it i would hypothize that i could come much closer to reproducing a Landrace than a small closet with zero thoughts and reserch put into it.. i would also hypothize that it would be hard to teach these Folks to grow their old Tha again like they did.
I know enough of agriculture to suspect the times have often gone , that people grow any Lnadrace, not just Cannabis.. theyre gone.. or atleast often.. With cannbis i see thats the case.. Ok, probably you manage, but i havent time in my live to babysit for decades what they do.. i go to thailand, put my greenhouse, cool it down, pollenfilter.. i can do it . now. right now. im ready. takes me 6 months, plus a couple months preparation. then i store the seeds well for 50 years, and do the same.

There is nothing wrong with searching for old and exotic landrace genetics but to me it's just chasing rainbows. Been there done it. Never found any landrace genetics even close to the quality of the landraces that went around in the 80s. Why is that? Too much inbreeding? Careless breeding practices?

 

[romanoweed]

i already told you that most modern landraces, be it thinleafed as f__k or not, are changed.
The reason that they changed is for me the prohibition probably.
I principially dont research degeneration, i research how things are right,
And yes, i only search Landraces that were collected in the 70s , because the prohibition probably lead to a lack of slection.. I told this already earlyer.. I also noticed that Fat Indica Plants, like in Afghanistan per ex. , dont look as degenerated in some instances as the Sativas. .. For me that might approve my theory.. Cause i speculate they dont select landraces nomore today, cause they fear prosecution, they dont like to cull anything.. they dont wanna grow out a Plant only to cull it.. But they rather can afford to cull an Indica here and there. because indicas are just yealding well, right. ?
I really am honest that i noticed indicas looking abit "older like the 70s stuff". I noticed this not only in Afghanistan where they select a field as a whole , i seen this in tropical regions awell, such as Vietnam.

Again, i dont really research degeneration, so this is just a hypothesis. peace THIS IS MY OPPINION. NO CLAIM

 

[Old Piney]

i already told you that most modern landraces, be it thinleafed as f__k or not, are changed.
The reason that they changed is for me the prohibition probably.
I principially dont research degeneration, i research how things are right,
And yes, i only search Landraces that were collected in the 70s , because the prohibition probably lead to a lack of slection.. I told this already earlyer.. I also noticed that Fat Indica Plants, like in Afghanistan per ex. , dont look as degenerated in some instances as the Sativas. .. For me that might approve my theory.. Cause i speculate they dont select landraces nomore today, cause they fear prosecution, they dont like to cull anything.. they dont wanna grow out a Plant only to cull it.. But they rather can afford to cull an Indica here and there. because indicas are just yealding well, right. ?
I really am honest that i noticed indicas looking abit "older like the 70s stuff". I noticed this not only in Afghanistan where they select a field as a whole , i seen this in tropical regions awell, such as Vietnam.

Again, i dont really research degeneration, so this is just a hypothesis. peace THIS IS MY OPPINION. NO CLAIM

Good observations, prohibition certainly hasn't helped

 

[chilliwilli]

There is nothing wrong with searching for old and exotic landrace genetics but to me it's just chasing rainbows. Been there done it. Never found any landrace genetics even close to the quality of the landraces that went around in the 80s. Why is that? Too much inbreeding? Careless breeding practices?

Or pollution with other genepool?
I understand that u had problems keeping landrace but could it be because of the numbers of plants u could grow? Not sure how many u can do but imo 100 selected plants per generation open pollination to start, better 1000 and best 10000. everything with lower numbers will lose a lot of traits and not be "that" landrace but an incomplete copy of it.

 

[[Maschinenhaus]]

Yes, farside, Arjan and his crew believe in a strictly commercial bit of piracy. They take the good landrace stock for themselves then leave hybrid crap to pollute and ruin the landrace stock. That way he has the strain and the world no longer does.
Nice, huh?

Arjan is an example of greed within the industry. But you should also not underestimate what is in private hands.

Seriously with the preservation and breeding of pure varieties, even a few good old hybrid varieties and of course landraces are included, I started only after the death of my mentor.

The treasure he left me I slowly start to capture, varieties from the 1960s and 1970s, free from any modern influence and a few good old crosses from the beginnings of European cannabis breeding.

We have formed 2 years ago a group whose members come from several European countries, with the aim of preserving, breeding cannabis without commercial intentions. It could be described as an open source project, we neither trade seeds nor sell seeds from our projects.

The best way to preserve old genetics is to be active yourself, not buying multihybrids, autoflowering and feminized seeds. The industry serves what is demanded by the customer and morals, ethics we can not expect from the corner.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

So what....... nobody ever brought genetics from some far off trading post and 'polluted' the local gene pool before?

Crossbreeding with genetics from other locations is a 1980's -2000's thing only??

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Roms]

Arjan is an example of greed within the industry. But you should also not underestimate what is in private hands.

And not underestimate what is in wise rural hands far of Arjan n' co possibilities of meet ahaha! Anyway landrace genepool is stronger and hard to kill no big problem imho. Even with a nightmare of extinctions i think you can all rebuild from just pure NLD seeds and a couple of decades. Take it easy and big up to all private farmers around the world.

 

[Plookerkingjon]

I'm hoping to get an understanding of whether or not the industries growers have traditionally payed homage to who they got the seed for hybridization from. The question comes after reading an article HERE ; This link taks you to GrowOpportunites... any ways.. this is for school...

So after reading this my impression is that people like the strain hunters guys didn't ever compensate anyone for the seeds they took. But then I got to ask where the moral stance is on this?
I'm not really sure that patenting a Hybrid developed from two land races is wrong? but it feel wrong to patent the actual land race...
this is a real topic of conversation atm..
Ever since I had seen the strain hunters videos i had always wondered whether they actually formed partnerships or payed royalties after using those seeds from the farmers.
Anyways, please share your stories, insight and experiences with this here IF you so dare.

I guess it also has to do with our species what drives and motivates them. I do know that when I've watched certain episodes of people going overseas to very rural isolated tribes to see what they're working with they're handing them over hybridized bottleneck s*** plants and encouraging them to grow them amongst their land race that they probably have been supporting their Community with forever, I mean if you look at the human species and you know there might be two out of 10 doing the right thing and doing the the proper methods and methodologies to allow future generations to enjoy it and the most pristine unadulterated aspects. Unfortunately a lot of my species are greedy and don't give a f*** about anything but money and getting themselves ahead

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

So you're saying ignorance and greed is a HUGE factor here, yes?