BIOCANNA - Anyone tried this line?

[brad4theanimals]

After revising my emails from Canna support, they actually said the opposite of what I remembered! Wowza.
So thank you for bringing that up. I'm going to share my recent well water test results (going through the softening system). There isn't much to it from what I can see.

View attachment 19096003

And apparently a softener removes calcium, magnesium, and other minerals from drinking water HAHA Oh man. I might have found the common denominator here not that I was using the softened water, but the RO system is AFTER the softener system. I'm going to start watering with pure well water and THEN I'll report back.

 

[brad4theanimals]

The mixing instructions apply to every drop of water the plants get. There are no days when they just get water.
Follow the bottle properly, and if that gives you problems, I could advise from there.
If you have RO, then canna agent is missing from your lineup.

Just water. No agent. I agree the mg might be depleted. Why have you taken it out with an RO filter? Canna is formulated for tap, and expects the tap to provide Ca and Mg. It should be 0.4 - 0.6 ec. If not, the agent is used to get it in range.

Also, I don't see Canna Agent listed on the Canada website. I sent them an email to confirm it's availability in North America. I'm in Canada for what it's worth.

 

[PlastikeRubba]

Interaction of Sodium with Calcium, Magnesium and Potassium


Sodium has a negative effect on most plants due to its toxicity, when it accumulates in certain tissues of the plant, and its capacity to harm the soil structure by competing with other cations for adsorption (the adhesion of the cation to the surface of some soil components). When a soil contains a level of sodium that might prove harmful to crops, it is said to be sodic. Soil sodicity should not be confused with soil salinity, which refers to the total quantity of salts in the soil, without specifying which salts are more prevalent.

There are two ways of determining where there is a risk of harm from excess sodium. One is by calculating the ratio between the sodium and other dissolved cations that will be absorbed by the plant. This is known as the sodium adsorption ratio or SAR. The formula is as follows:

Interactions between nutrients
Irrigation water with a SAR over 18 is considered as having a high sodium content.

Another way is by calculating what proportion of sodium cations is retained in the exchange complex, as compared to others. This is known as the exchangeable sodium percentage (ESP).

ESP = 100 x Na / CEC

A soil is considered sodic if it has an ESP of over 15%.

Finally, the ratio between calcium, magnesium and sodium can be altered by the presence of carbonates and bicarbonates. In other words, even if there is initially more Ca and Mg than Na – in principle a good ratio for avoiding problems – if you irrigate with very hard water containing large quantities of carbonates and bicarbonates, they can make the calcium and magnesium precipitate in the form of insoluble carbonates, tipping the scales in favor of sodium and increasing the SAR.

This is known as the residual sodium carbonate (RSC) index. The formula is as follows:

RSC=(CO3-+HCO3-)-(Ca+2+Mg+2)

Tap water with values over 2.5 should not be used, as it can cause problems.



You don't need to pester people through email either.

 

[Ca++]

And apparently a softener removes calcium, magnesium, and other minerals from drinking water HAHA Oh man. I might have found the common denominator here not that I was using the softened water, but the RO system is AFTER the softener system. I'm going to start watering with pure well water and THEN I'll report back.

It swaps them for sodium. Your water report appears to be after the softener. Which as you say, increases the EC. It's not a filter.

Using the unknown well water, there is a degree of uncertainty. I can't vouch for the unknown, but me.. I would be using the raw well water.

Another option would be increasing the RO's hardness with calmag. It's generally adds N though, perhaps 30ppm. I'm not sure it fits your organic ethos either. Though it's the common home-grow answer to overly soft water.

I'm not going to talk chalk and epsom. I think your well is probably just fine for irrigation.

 

[brad4theanimals]

Interaction of Sodium with Calcium, Magnesium and Potassium


Sodium has a negative effect on most plants due to its toxicity, when it accumulates in certain tissues of the plant, and its capacity to harm the soil structure by competing with other cations for adsorption (the adhesion of the cation to the surface of some soil components). When a soil contains a level of sodium that might prove harmful to crops, it is said to be sodic. Soil sodicity should not be confused with soil salinity, which refers to the total quantity of salts in the soil, without specifying which salts are more prevalent.

There are two ways of determining where there is a risk of harm from excess sodium. One is by calculating the ratio between the sodium and other dissolved cations that will be absorbed by the plant. This is known as the sodium adsorption ratio or SAR. The formula is as follows:

View attachment 19096023

Interactions between nutrients
Irrigation water with a SAR over 18 is considered as having a high sodium content.

Another way is by calculating what proportion of sodium cations is retained in the exchange complex, as compared to others. This is known as the exchangeable sodium percentage (ESP).

ESP = 100 x Na / CEC

A soil is considered sodic if it has an ESP of over 15%.

Finally, the ratio between calcium, magnesium and sodium can be altered by the presence of carbonates and bicarbonates. In other words, even if there is initially more Ca and Mg than Na – in principle a good ratio for avoiding problems – if you irrigate with very hard water containing large quantities of carbonates and bicarbonates, they can make the calcium and magnesium precipitate in the form of insoluble carbonates, tipping the scales in favor of sodium and increasing the SAR.

This is known as the residual sodium carbonate (RSC) index. The formula is as follows:

RSC=(CO3-+HCO3-)-(Ca+2+Mg+2)

Tap water with values over 2.5 should not be used, as it can cause problems.



You don't need to pester people through email either.

I didn't realize that inquiring to company about one of their products was pestering. I guess I could just not give them my money instead? And for what it's worth, they were extremely helpful.

 

[brad4theanimals]

It swaps them for sodium. Your water report appears to be after the softener. Which as you say, increases the EC. It's not a filter.

Using the unknown well water, there is a degree of uncertainty. I can't vouch for the unknown, but me.. I would be using the raw well water.

Another option would be increasing the RO's hardness with calmag. It's generally adds N though, perhaps 30ppm. I'm not sure it fits your organic ethos either. Though it's the common home-grow answer to overly soft water.

I'm not going to talk chalk and epsom. I think your well is probably just fine for irrigation.

Before BioCanna, I was following the Lucas Protocal using GH FloraNova which is why I was using RO. I had great results with the exception of taste. For some reason, my brain defaulted to wanting to use as plain H2o as possible. Anyway, I'm going to get the well water tested from before the softener tomorrow morning and take it from there. I would suspect that I may still need to supplement with CalMag but unfortunately it won't be Canna Agent since it's not allowed in Canada for some reason. We have weird laws here surrounding that stuff which is one of the reason I stopped using GO. But I probably am okay to use my well without testing it, like you said, it's not a filter so the results will likely be similar except maybe less sodium and more of the minerals it exchanged for the sodium. Makes me wonder if I should be drinking softened water because I have been for many years now haha

 

[Ca++]

Is cannabio just for soil?
Many soil feeds, including canna, offer no calcium or magnesium. The canna terra can work in coco, if you add calmag appropriately. In soil, I was also having to add calmag to my moderate tap water, or canna wasn't cutting it. Perhaps since the global domination of LED is well under way, they should reformulate these feeds. It seems crazy to have everything in there, even the small stuff, but skip Ca&Mg

 

[brad4theanimals]

Is cannabio just for soil?
Many soil feeds, including canna, offer no calcium or magnesium. The canna terra can work in coco, if you add calmag appropriately. In soil, I was also having to add calmag to my moderate tap water, or canna wasn't cutting it. Perhaps since the global domination of LED is well under way, they should reformulate these feeds. It seems crazy to have everything in there, even the small stuff, but skip Ca&Mg

I was having the exact same issues under Ceramic Metal Halide. I actually switched to LED because I thought I was burning the canopy (room height limitations) but here I am seeing the same thing. I spoke to one of the engineers at the testing facility and he said I will have all the numbers I need to calculate the "RSC". I'm pretty close to finish in the rooms I currently have. By then, I'll have the new results from the water test and I can determine if I need to add a CalMag supplement. I secretly hope I don't but I am obviously open to whatever solves the issue. I'm sticking with BioCanna no matter what happens and I might even considered a flood table at some point for their Aqua line. Again, I sincerely appreciate everyone chiming in, I would have gone mad trying to figure this out on my own.

 

[PlastikeRubba]

Is cannabio just for soil?
Many soil feeds, including canna, offer no calcium or magnesium. The canna terra can work in coco, if you add calmag appropriately. In soil, I was also having to add calmag to my moderate tap water, or canna wasn't cutting it. Perhaps since the global domination of LED is well under way, they should reformulate these feeds. It seems crazy to have everything in there, even the small stuff, but skip Ca&Mg

What's with your fucking obsession with calmag dude.

You need to put that dispo grade indica shit away.

 

[Ca++]

What's with your fucking obsession with calmag dude.

You need to put that dispo grade indica shit away.

You weren't worth this much of a reply, but when I see someone on my notifications, and think ffs, that has to mean I expect a shit post. One that just wastes everyone's time. Perhaps with some sort of insult. That just makes you look like a tosser.

Worthless waste of space.

 

[Orange's Greenhouse]

It seems crazy to have everything in there, even the small stuff, but skip Ca&Mg

Crazy until you can sell another bottle of expensive water.
What you're referring to are hard water formulations. You can also get one part soft water formulations that supply Ca and Mg not present in the tap water used. It's a solved issue in horticulture but cannabis is such a special plant that these feeds are not suitable for obvious reasons.

 

[Ca++]

Crazy until you can sell another bottle of expensive water.
What you're referring to are hard water formulations. You can also get one part soft water formulations that supply Ca and Mg not present in the tap water used. It's a solved issue in horticulture but cannabis is such a special plant that these feeds are not suitable for obvious reasons.

There is no hard water terra. They don't use any Ca or Mg, because the soil is likely 1500ppm Ca and 200ppm Mg.
It's just a base feed though. If you run co2, or reduce transpiration for some other reason, you will need to add them. They can't put them in for everybody though, as a hard water user would be out of luck.
There is no silver bullet feed, but if just getting a crop is all you need, then their are certainly single bottles out there. Not everyone is chasing perfection, and some are even in denial that there can be better. Most farming families won't soil test, as it's too modern to get an extra half tonne an acre. Maybe 15% more output, with a proper targetted approach, not just horse shit.

I don't envy anyone struggling, that only has organic feeds to hand. Most of us are reactive growers, and know that when we see the problem, it's allready too late. Organic feeds slow the corrections by days though. We feed them organics, but they get it days later. So the process of incremental adjustments, with short waits to see the outcome, becomes a long time. For a rapid crop with maybe 8 weeks to flower, I just wouldn't want to take that on. If my notifications are arriving late, I want to be able to react instantly.

 

[brad4theanimals]

Just a quick update for anyone who cares. I received the latest water test results back and thought I'd share since I said I would. I know the RSC formula is right above in what seems to be plain english but it makes me feel like I need to go back to high school and retake chemistry. If anyone is bored and understands that formula, would you please tell me if my RSC rating is above or below 2.5? It's nice to see Cal/Mag back in the results but I'm not sure how I feel about the Manganese being off the charts. Thanks again for any and all input!

 

[Orange's Greenhouse]

Just a quick update for anyone who cares. I received the latest water test results back and thought I'd share since I said I would. I know the RSC formula is right above in what seems to be plain english but it makes me feel like I need to go back to high school and retake chemistry. If anyone is bored and understands that formula, would you please tell me if my RSC rating is above or below 2.5? It's nice to see Cal/Mag back in the results but I'm not sure how I feel about the Manganese being off the charts. Thanks again for any and all input!

View attachment 19101998

RSC is a shortcut when measuring water quality parameters by a lab. You make a few assumptions and derive the sodium content of the water performing fewer tests. Sodium is relevant for irrigation and plant health. It can accumulate in soil, leading to toxicity. Most plants to not tolerate elevated sodium levels. It also interacts with clay soil leading to erosion and lowering fertility. Your sodium levels (5 mg/L) is low and of no concern.
This increases throughput, lowers cost and allows for tighter control of important parameters. It is not necessarily an evil capitalist increasing margin but good science to answer questions with minimal effort.

What is done is that the earth alkali metals content and the acid neutralizing capacity are measured. These are 2 tests that require minimal equipment and are finished in a minute. They don't need sample preparation (which takes time and costs money).
Then there is assumed, or backed up by regular testing, that the earth alkali metals are only calcium and magnesium. A similiar assumption is that the acid neutralizing capacity is due to the carbonate content.

With minimal effort your know how much Calcium, magnesium and carbonate/bicarbonate is in the sample. The RSC then calculates if the ratio of earth alkali metals to carbonate is balanced or if there is carbonate that is unaccounted for. Calcium and magnesium carry a positive charge, carbonate is negatively charged. In balance the sum of these charges is 0. If the sum is negative, then there must be other positive ions in solution. These ions are assumed to be sodium. Thus the name "residual sodium carbonate". Sodium is not directly measured but extrapolated.

I hope this helps. Ask if I was unclear.

Manganese in drinking water is a concern because it leads to metallic taste. It is usually removed in water treatment plants (Ozonization, Airation or greensand filters). Cannabis grows fine at 1 mg/L Mn (twice what you have in your water) but 10 mg/L Mn causes toxicities. Where the line between those two are I don't know. How your specific cultivar reacts I can't say either. Can you use this water? Depends on your fertilizer and your cultivar. Try it out I guess.