BigTokes Hardcore, Bio-Buckets—Playing Around Is Over!!!

[Guest]

BT. No camera. I used a washer floor base with 3" holes cut. I use 1/2" pvc w/ red clone spinners; four aech. The nut level is set via overflow drain and primary filtered drain. The pimary drain uses a filter to keep the nutrients clean. I update nutrients weekly, and have never replaced my nutrients. It seems a waste of money and time, to me. My res sits under the table, similar to a ebb & flow table.

ph remains stable over longer duration than shorter. Afte testing for weeks, I gave up and never even test any more. I do not even use ph up o down anylonger. GH nut's are al;ready balanced with RO water. BTW I use re-oxygenated water from supplier.

The system works great and I get outstanding vegetative growth. I use either hps and cfl's or just hps's. I have 2-125w cfl's and 2-150w hps' in a 2x2 area. Almost 75w/sf.

I also use a dwc converted to an aeroponic with a 400 hps and 125w cfl in a 2' sq gow area. I just add to this unit, as it drinks a gallon/day. It is a 7 gallon dwc. I have masive roots from the veg chamber, and the flower aeroponics just gets better, I think.

I am going to flower and verg in the 2x2 this go round and see if I can improve on production and peformance as well as yield and taste.

I will continue to folow this thread along with others on this subject, now that i know what I am doing theoretically.

Applying theory and reality together! Thanks BigToke

Avid

 

[BigToke]

AL, No camera!!! That’s alright you did a good job describing your setup, I would like to know more about this re-oxygenated water? That stuff sounds pretty cool.

 

[DarkLance]

Mr. BT,
This is an excellent thread, almost too informative. So now you've got me thinking. I used to run a bio-Fish Tank a few years ago, without knowing it. Many people clean their tanks and change the water quite often. My theory was that what works in nature much work in my tank. Having met a friend that kept a salt-water tank with little to no maintenance I started sucking his brain.
Turns out all he did was maintain lots of plants, lots of oxygen and lots of water movement. So when setting up my tank (100Gal Fresh Water) I included 4 times the amount of filtration, including 2 skimmers and a full length under-bed filter. A air pump delivering 4 times the amount of air, and lots of living plants. What I did was to get all the water moving quite rapidly (as far as aquariums are concerned) and allow for the normal bacteria to propagate.
Long story short, I never had to clean my tank and the fish all lived to be very old with few problems or diseases. Obviously it was a bit more complicated than I make it seem here, but you get the idea.

Ok, now that that is out of the way, I was wondering if you could offer some advice on my latest idea. Could the bio-buckets idea be transfered to a smaller closest grow? I am building my first grow here shortly and really like the idea of using the ever-present bacteria to my advantage. I don't think a waterfall effect could be achieved in such a small place, but given proper aeration via pumps w/ air stones, would this be possible you think?

Here are a few questions I have for you in addition to my previous one.

1) How do you maintain adequate water circulation with a top mounted drain?

2) Your total bloom area equation was a bit hard to understand (and I'm an Electrical Engineering major!). Here's my take; Given square footage of grow area, divide by 2 and multiply by 3 quarts.
In my case, 30" x 24" = 720 / 144 = 5 sq/ft. 3 quarts per sq/ft yields 15 quarts for an optimal reservoir size, or 3.75 Gallons.
Please correct me if I am wrong here. It seems a bit low, my original plan called for a 10 gallon tank.

3) Reservoir replenishment. You make it seem that a res should not be given nutrients until the total volume has been replaced via add-backs. Sounds fine to me, but are adequate levels maintained this way? Or did I miss something in there?

I am really hoping to give this a shot and am more than willing to put the effort and energy into making this work, as I think it would be great to pull this off in a small, enclosed space. We'll see.
And thanks for your in-depth workup on this. You can tell how much work you put into this, and I thank you.

Cheers, Lance

 

[Guest]

re-oxyginated water

re-oxyginated water

I get my water fom a local water supplier. His water tastes the best and he excplained to me he does r /o and introduces oxygen into the finished product. He says it is excellent for plants and I have to agree.

I use a 2x2 botainacare tray 7" dep with 1/2" pvc piping (white) with four clone spinners located in a square. I used a fibeglass washer base for my tray lid. I core drilled 3" holes to use with the net pots. The net pots hang about 2-1/2" below the top, and the nutrient level fluctuates between 3"-5" in the tank. I use a reservoir below the tray and let the nut's fall back into the res. I use an external mag pump. Works fine.

I just have to clean the clone spinners every once and awhile. Byond keeping the res filled, and watching the plants grow, that is all there is to my system. KISS. Trying to keep it simple.

Reading about your system helped me uundestand better wqhat I am actually doing. Like I said before, I got lucky!

peace
Avid

 

[BigToke]

BigTokes, Bio-Buckets

BigTokes, Bio-Buckets

Say Lance, I see that your already familiar aquariums and bio-fish tanks, but were not raising fish, were growing plants, and you well swear that you can see your plants are growing right before your eye’s in the Bio-Buckets, “be forewarned, all closet growers of the Bio-Buckets, that most likely your plants will be the size of a 35 to 55 gal barrel.” I know a fellow that grows in a closet with the Bio-Buckets and he says that by the time flowering comes he can’t even move in there, he says, he just lets them grow and raises the lights when needed.

Now with that out of the way, I’ll see if I can answer a few Q’s.

I don't think a waterfall effect could be achieved in such a small place, but given proper aeration via pumps w/ air stones, would this be possible you think?

Yes, if you supplied adequate amount of aeration through different ways, there again I am only speculating because I do not no about; your lights, ventilation, exhaust, intake ect. Before I would do any thing I would set down and rightfully calculate every thing before I begin, this would be the smart thing to do, usually a larger grow space is more forgiving than a smaller one is, so do the math!!

How do you maintain adequate water circulation with a top mounted drain?

Not meaning to be a wise crack, but the answer to this one is in the very first post of my thread, but I will try to say it in a deferent way: adequate circulation, the supply line to each bucket is ¾ and the drain is 1 ¼ there is enough pressure coming from the supply line to exchange a five gallon buck eighteen time an hour, all that pressure comes from my pump. Although you do not need that much exchange, seven to ten times will do the trick.

Your total bloom area equation was a bit hard to understand (and I'm an Electrical Engineering major!). Here's my take; Given square footage of grow area, divide by 2 and multiply by 3 quarts.
In my case, 30" x 24" = 720 / 144 = 5 sq/ft. 3 quarts per sq/ft yields 15 quarts for an optimal reservoir size, or 3.75 Gallons.
Please correct me if I am wrong here. It seems a bit low, my original plan called for a 10 gallon tank.

Alright before we go any further you do realize that this is just a rule-of-thumb that I estimated for my bio-buckets right? If your growing conditions is not the same as mine, well you know. Lets get on with it; Ok Mr. Engineer major, let me see if I can simplify this a little for you, for reservoir sizing I calculate 3.quarts per bucket/plant,---for plant/water uptake I calculate 1.quart sq-foot per buck of crop/bud canopy space, which is three quarts, right, right. Now just add that equation to ever how many buckets your going to use, and if you like going with a bigger res than what’s required, well that’s alright to.

Reservoir replenishment. You make it seem that a res should not be given nutrients until the total volume has been replaced via add-backs. Sounds fine to me, but are adequate levels maintained this way? Or did I miss something in there?

Yes you did miss something, I am not talking about adding nutrients here, I’m talking about an alterative to reservoir change-outs/flush’s whatever not nutrients, as you can see in my post, my reservoir is outfitted with a float valve, which is constantly adding fresh water as needed by plants, (this is what I am referring to as add-backs, the float valve is adding back fresh water as needed, as a result, the ppm’s are going to be depleted/dropt-down, as the solution is diluted, just every other day or so bump the ppm’s back up were you like them. Now on the other hand lets talk about volume replacement for those how for some resin or another has to make res-change-outs, as an alternative you may use this method, when 100% of the total amount of old water in your system has been replaced with with 100% of fresh water. At this point, if you are uncertain of your plant/nutrient/solution/systems condition it would be wise to replace the systems total volume with fresh.

In conclusion: all hydroponics systems, are systems of design, and so if you embark upon making your own home-made system, then make sure that it is designed right, for if not it will not do it’s function, if the Bio-Buckets are designed right, they will grow massive plants, for that matter so will all other hydroponics systems, the design of your system is the foundation of your success, so weather it be store-bought or home-made just do it right.

 

[Hooked-On-Grown]

In conclusion: all hydroponics systems, are systems of design, and so if you embark upon making your own home-made system, then make sure that it is designed right, for if not it will not it’s function, if the Bio-Buckets are designed right, they will grow massive plants, for that matter so will all other hydroponics systems, the design of your system is the foundation of your success, so weather it be store-bought or home-made just do it right.

excactly BigToke........ Some of you guys are making this out to be more complicated then it is.
My system works like an Ebb & Flow table. I have a 50 gal res and 7- five gallon buckets. it fills every four hours and is pumped back into res after 15 min soak. Instead of a float valve......I top off every night or every other night.......and add nutes as needed to bring back up to the desired level. I let my Res go for 2 weeks before I change out 100%.

I do like the recirc system though BigToke........and not having to change the res. Like you said design it right and give the proper conditions and your plants will respond to their fullest.

 

[DarkLance]

ha ha! ok, all jokes aside, thanks for answerig my question so fast! I read a bunch of Hurtback's threads and understand a lot more of what you were saying.

It does seem to be a lot simpler now that I have read more. It almost seems as if all other grow techniques are somehow flawed in that the most sanitary conditions [in the water system] are trying to be maintained at all times.

But one last question (till I think of more!), when I was asking about the water recirculation, I was confused at how pulling water off of the top, while also supplying it their moves all of the water in the most effective manner. I do notice that your in-flow has a 90° downwards, forcing fresh water to the bottom, somewhat. Would it not be better to put either the source or drain at the bottom to better change the water?

It does not look like you are having any problems, but fluid dynamics (I wanted an excuse to use something that I've paid so much money for!) suggests that a current would develop, moving only the top half or so of the bucket.

Maybe I'll test this out when I get my system up and running.

I'm off to make a HomeDepot run!

Lance

 

[BigToke]

BigTokes, Bio-Buckets

BigTokes, Bio-Buckets

Lance dude, you are to cool!! Well I’m glad that you have a better understanding of it know, and I hope you know I was just having a little fun.

Would it not be better to put either the source or drain at the bottom to better change the water?

I looked into many different ways of putting the supply/source at the bottom, and after doing the math, I think HurtBack had it right the first time, so I stuck with a proven method and it has never let me down, although there was some bio-bucket folks how thought the same as you do, but after trying different methods they returned to the original way, which is as you see in mine. As for the drain well I don’t even have to think about this one, there’s no question about it that the drain must be within a two inch’s from the top, if not the net-pots would not be submerged enough under water for the Beneficial Bacterium to survive therefore defeating the very purpose of the Bio-Buckets.

 

[DarkLance]

well, I just picked up my C13, and I'll tell you what, I'm never going back to Home Depot again. That thing weighs 162 lbs and I couldn't get a sole in that place to help me out. Even loading it on the cart was next to impossible without some help, considering that I only weigh in at 165 myself. After about 1/2 an hour of looking like an invalid I finally got it loaded and I pirposfully pushed it past the idiot who was sitting on his ass typing an email (he told me that he could help me in "...a while, or go find someone else". No one was able to help me load it in the car, they all had excuses why they were too busy.

Ahh, its a good thing that a Lowe's is about 5 minutes away from my house. I only went to HD for that specific cab...

Ok, enough lamenting. So how do you free the lava rocks from the roots when you are done with a grow? I was thinking that in my case I would just toss the entire shebang, net pot and all, when I'm done. I intend to have only 2 plants so this won't cost me too much. But if you have some trick, please let me know.

I'll start a thread journal here once I stat making real progress.

 

[BigToke]

BigTokes, Bio-Buckets

BigTokes, Bio-Buckets

Lance dude, that is the first time I have laughed all day, that is so funny!! But on the other hand, sorry to hear about your bad troubles at HD, you could have just ask me and I would have going down there with you and got that C13 cab……it would have been worth it to see that!! “just kidding!!” it’s all in good fun dude, just good fun.

Ok down to business:

So how do you free the lava rocks from the roots when you are done with a grow?

I suspend them in the air for one week, and the just about fall of, there is an example of this in the first page of this grow/thread. And as for the lava rocks, I have two sets that is enough for 36 buckets each, while I’m using one, the other’s are soaking in a mixture of H02/H202, that way I’m in no danger of bad algae buildup.

 

[Huck Fin]

Hey there Mr Big,

How ya doin', Just checkin' in with ya. I've got my system up and running. All things are lookn' good. Anyway, just sayn' hi. Looks like your thread here is really taken off. A lot of good questions are being posed. Peace.

BTW, I noticed in your gallery (I didn't see b4), that your pic of the net pot out of the bucket - you said that the net pot hole were too small. Should I make a few cut's in mine?

 

[BigToke]

BigToks, Bio-Buckets

BigToks, Bio-Buckets

Hunk Fin,

It’s good see you again Hunk, I thought maybe you had went on a vacation or something? Man I sure would like to see some of those pic’s!!

I noticed in your gallery (I didn't see b4), that your pic of the net pot out of the bucket - you said that the net pot hole were too small. Should I make a few cut's in mine?

I was told, that GH Nutrients produces massive tap-roots, and I have found this to be true in my bio-buckets: to answer your question, yes if I were you, and your net-pots are like mine, I would increase the hole size, this will allow for the bigger tap-roots to go thru and grow down into the bucket.

I will be modifying mine as soon as I can find the time.

 

[Huck Fin]

Hey there BigToke,

I would love to upload some photo's, but alas, I have no digital camera and I recently installed a new operating system that is not compatible with my scanner. Bottom line... I screwed until I change one of those scenarios.

I'll take your advice and score some larger holes in the net pots.

The reason for my absense, is, I scored a 1200 CFM 1/4 horse Dayton blower for $30 and I was retrofitting my grow room to accept this monster. That leads me to another question; How often do you exchange your air? My grow room is 6 x 10 x 7. According to my calculations, that's 420 cu. ft. and I am supposed to exchange the air 3-5 times that amount and the minimum that would be 1260 CFM rating. So that's when I started looking for a blower. This is 1200, I think it will do. But now I'm wondering if that is too much and not letting any CO2 hang around. What do you think? I've thought about a speed controller to slow down the CFM's. The only problem is... all the speed controllers (fan controllers) I find are only rated for 1.5 amps and my 1/4 horse draws 3.2 amps. Any suggestions?

 

[BigToke]

BigTokes, Bio-Buckets

BigTokes, Bio-Buckets

Huck Fin,

How often do you exchange your air?---- But now I'm wondering if that is too much and not letting any CO2 hang around. What do you think?

I know what you mine, working on grow room can be time consuming. My grow room is a 10’Wx14’Lx9’H and to solve the problem of sucking out all CO2 can be looked at in three ways.

1. An exhaust without an intake, (I have used this method before and is temperature operated exhaust fan, to take advantage of the C02 you need temps to be around 80 to 90 degrees, so I would set my fan turn on at 90 to 95 degrees.)
   Note: Warning, if your style of growing is DWC and you use a chiller to cool down the res, make sure you rap the buckets with some kind of insulation, this will save on money and life of chiller.
   
2. An intake without an exhaust, (Basically the same as above, except you use something to cool the room down after temps are at a certain point……is steal temperature control.)
   
3. An intake and exhaust work together, after temps are were you wont them, then both intake plus exhaust work together to create a constant flow of air movement until and replenishes the room with fresh C02 and temps drop back down to a certain temp then fans turn off and allow the plants to take in the C02. (This is the method that I use for my room.)
   [/list=1]

 

[Huck Fin]

BigToke,

What do you use as a temp on/off switch for your fan? Where do you get it? Or did you or can you make one?

I am concerned about intake and exaust sizes. Intake is 4" hole at bottom of room. Exaust is 6" hole at top of room. I have my carbon scrubber attatched in front of the exaust. Then the 1200 CFM attatched to the carbon scrubber so it is pushing the air through the scrubber and out the exaust. The 1200 CFM fan has an opening of 7" x 10" to push the air through. Is this too large for the 6" exaust hole? (actaully the 6" reduces to 4" in the wall to accomodate stealth and nosie)

 

[BigToke]

BigToks, Bio-Buckets

BigToks, Bio-Buckets

Huck Fin,

What do you use as a temp on/off switch for your fan? Where do you get it? Or did you or can you make one?

I use a temp controller for each fan, my intake pretty much runs all the time except at night, and the exhaust just comes on only as a last resort or if room gets to hot, you should be able to find them at any hydro store. Btw your holes mite be a little small for that size of room, mite wont to look into making a little larger.

 

[Huck Fin]

BigToke,

I don't remeber, what do you use when putting your clones into the lava rock? Rockwool? I am fortunate enough to be getting some clones from Reeferman Seeds and they will be arriving soon. I have an aerocloner, but then I need to put them in ???

 

[BigToke]

BigTokes, Bio-Buckets

BigTokes, Bio-Buckets

Huck Fin,

I use Oasis Cubs, that is what HurtBack recommended; although I do believe that Rockwool should work, I would be careful about putting it to far into the net-pot, just as long as the bottom of the RW do’s not touched the water/solution, that way it doesn’t soak up to much water you should be fin. Btw what strain did you get?

Note: Warning, to this date I know no one that has used RW with any luck, so you are chartering new territory, be careful.

 

[Huck Fin]

BT,

Hey just wanted to let you know I appreciate the info. Also, the clone (all female) strains I got are NYCD (5), Oregon Purple Thai (2), Willie Nelson (3), Pink Kush (1), and Original Romulan (3). I also have Skunk #1, Euphoria, Kush x Blueberry, Phoenix 1, Kush x Calio, and Blackwidow x Skunk #1.

I would like to get a hold of good strains of White Widow, Black Berry, Trainwreck, Grapefruit, Black Domina and Afghani.

 

[BigToke]

Info info info, that's what we all need is some good info

Info info info, that's what we all need is some good info

HF,

Info is free my friend, I believe that’s why were all here is to help every one out the best way we can, and I hope that I’ve said something that was useful to you. Btw sound like you’ve got some good seeds lined up for a great grow, I hope we get to see some good pic’s out of those? Anyway good luck with your grow.