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Bho Disasters (PLEASE READ!)
- Thread starter Crooked8
- Start date
personally i'm disappointed in this bho phenomenon. it has spoiled out perfect reputation as being harmless. with the amount of these idiots blowing their shit up the cops will soon be using it as an excuse to say grower, tokers etc are a hazard to the community. up till now, not 1 person had ever died in connection with growing cannabis to smoke. we were the classic not dangerous group of people. but now more and more people will think if their neighbor is a smoker he might also end up killing them by blowing up the house to make bho. so really, i wish it had never been discovered, even if it is a nice hit, the price to our image as cannabis users is just too fucking high!
i mean i always thought you could say that if people followed the instructions in our threads they'd be safe, but now it turns out that the whole soak in thermos and even winterization process has dangers to it that were not really warned about in said threads. this is not an ideal situation imo and such threads should be edited to warn about the dangers from fridge and freezer sparks.
i mean i always thought you could say that if people followed the instructions in our threads they'd be safe, but now it turns out that the whole soak in thermos and even winterization process has dangers to it that were not really warned about in said threads. this is not an ideal situation imo and such threads should be edited to warn about the dangers from fridge and freezer sparks.
Butane in the thermos / mason jar / pyrex dish,
in the fridge / oven, on the stove / sink / table.
Any of these combinations violates the general rule -
Butane indoors only in original packaging.
I have repeated it many times on the forums.
Should be written in big colored letters as they write for children. My omission.
Can we hope that it prevented any explosions?
I'm ready to write this rule in my signature in large letters.
Please help edit the wording in English.
You couldn’t have worse public relations than that is going on right now with people not only blowing them selves up but their apartments, houses but their neighbors right along with them. If you were a LEO or Eric Holder of the Justice Department you couldn’t get better adverse press than these idiots who are generating it for free by setting themselves afire and roasting themselves like a chicken in front of the whole world. Blowing up their apartments, houses, cars, children, wives and girl friends in the most picture grabbing way, not only themselves but their neighbors trying to just live their lives. It took 50 years to get the general public to change their minds about marijuana but if this continues that good feeling will soon dissipate. All of these good laws that have been passed for the most part were because of the general public and not the State Legislature’s, if the People become afraid they will demand some Draconian laws and the DEA will write them.
One thing you could all do, which would help some, is not buy it. In fact, you could even tell your dispensaries that you will not be buying it ever, and that you will be asking your friends not to buy it either. For all anyone knows, that BHO shatter at your local dispensary actually did cause an explosion that killed a cat or 2 during manufacture. How would you know?
Just boycott the stuff. And tell your dispensaries that you are boycotting and why. Then, just maybe, word will spread. Tell your dealers, for those of us not in medical states. Tell your friends. It's just not worth it.
Also, for those of you who actually need something this strong, for medical reasons... Know that there are other ways of getting just as pure of a product without using butane. Iso is my favorite, and it tastes better than BHO too!
Butane belongs in certified laboratories. If people absolutely must have BHO instead of whatever else (which is completely bullshit... people only want BHO because that is what is hyped up, and 95% of people don't think for themselves, they just let the hype tell them what to think) then there better start being professional labs producing it, because homemade butane labs are soon going to be treated as meth labs. The writing is on the wall already, that is not subject to debate. Open your eyes and see that the average person, LEO, and media outlet ALL see it as the new meth lab scourge.
By the way, the problem with adjusting the online teks about making the stuff will do nothing, because the assholes blowing their neighbors up aren't reading teks in the first place. The phrase "preaching to the choir" comes to mind. The assholes next door to your mother's house, the ones that are going to blow themselves up and cause expensive damage to your mom's house... those idiots don't even read forums.
Shit's being ruined before my state even has a chance to go medical.
Just boycott the stuff. And tell your dispensaries that you are boycotting and why. Then, just maybe, word will spread. Tell your dealers, for those of us not in medical states. Tell your friends. It's just not worth it.
Also, for those of you who actually need something this strong, for medical reasons... Know that there are other ways of getting just as pure of a product without using butane. Iso is my favorite, and it tastes better than BHO too!
Butane belongs in certified laboratories. If people absolutely must have BHO instead of whatever else (which is completely bullshit... people only want BHO because that is what is hyped up, and 95% of people don't think for themselves, they just let the hype tell them what to think) then there better start being professional labs producing it, because homemade butane labs are soon going to be treated as meth labs. The writing is on the wall already, that is not subject to debate. Open your eyes and see that the average person, LEO, and media outlet ALL see it as the new meth lab scourge.
By the way, the problem with adjusting the online teks about making the stuff will do nothing, because the assholes blowing their neighbors up aren't reading teks in the first place. The phrase "preaching to the choir" comes to mind. The assholes next door to your mother's house, the ones that are going to blow themselves up and cause expensive damage to your mom's house... those idiots don't even read forums.
Shit's being ruined before my state even has a chance to go medical.
RegisPhilburn1
Member
Care to elaborate on the dangers of winterization?
To say that I'm disappointed, would be an understatement, so I understand the angst gripping your gut, though I personally am not yet ready to toss the baby with the bathwater.
Certifiable boneheaded idiots are a fact of life, regardless what we do. Abraham Maslow, father of the third movement humanistic psychology, observed, "It is a mistake to forget that there is pathology in the populous."
We have the same issue with guns and cars. Not everyone can be trusted to follow the rules, or alas, even read them. I think it is pretty safe to say that if banned, only outlaws will have BHO.............
Also, that like CA, suddenly everything on the shelf will just have a new label.
I once tutored GED students in science and math as a volunteer, where I learned that none of them had a problem with science or math. Without exception, they all had a problem with reading and reading comprehension. Not everyone is even literate that can vocalize written words.
As far as the dangers of winterizing, at the point that the mixture is put in the freezer, there shouldn't be enough residual butane to be an issue. It is typically below those levels before the alcohol is even added, but doesn't stick around long after it is added and the oil turned into a loose liquid. Even if alcohol is added early, it would be a bubbling cauldron.
I continue to see warnings about sticking jars or thermoses of butane back in the freezer, but as noted, not everyone is reading or comprehending them. Amongst those who do, not everyone accepts them as gospel or important, because some of our brothers and sisters truly need keepers.
I don't open blast anymore, except in class, and considered stopping that and removing the instructions from SPR website, but came to the conclusion that the practice would continue anyway and more folks would benefit more from good instructions than from us withholding the information.
I'm also left to consider how many brothers and sisters extract BHO without incident, vis a vis having accidents from unsafe acts.
Under the circumstances, I concluded that doing just what we are doing in this thread is probably the best thing that we can do, to increase the probability that we will reach more misguided brothers and sisters and nip it in the bud early. Ostensibly, no one in their right mind reading it would extract indoors, but alas the right mind qualification continues to be an issue.
Hyperbole much?
Since you did finish your post with stating there's no medical in your state I'll forgive the fact that you likely don't know much about the stringent testing that a lot of dispensaries undertake and the level of quality that the market has started to demand in a lot of these states. Also, when shit blows up, it tends to make the news...
For that matter, how do you know that bag of regular ol' weed you bought didn't come from a grow where the grower flushed all his waste water and some leftover chemmy ferts into the stream behind his house where it killed a bunch of fish and leeched into his neighbor well and drinking water? Oh, and then 2 cats ate the fish and died. HOW WOULD YOU KNOW!
purity levels are comparable, but BHO still has the edge... it's just a better solvent... BHO also tastes better, most ISO methods damage (heat) terpenes... you'll run into "bad" iso hash just as often as "bad" BHO
There are better labs producing it, there's too much money in it for some large organizations (I can name 3 in CO off the top of my head) not to be taking it seriously... and they brand their product, brag on their methods, back it up with lab tests, and the consumer can choose.
Uh... really? You're drawing a comparison to Meth labs? That's laughable. The process is no where near as dangerous, not even close, and even the most conservative media is going to have a hard time drawing any real comparison between the two because, ya know, it's NOT FUCKING METH!
There's always some bad eggs... don't throw the baby out with the bathwater though.
Since you did finish your post with stating there's no medical in your state I'll forgive the fact that you likely don't know much about the stringent testing that a lot of dispensaries undertake and the level of quality that the market has started to demand in a lot of these states. Also, when shit blows up, it tends to make the news...
For that matter, how do you know that bag of regular ol' weed you bought didn't come from a grow where the grower flushed all his waste water and some leftover chemmy ferts into the stream behind his house where it killed a bunch of fish and leeched into his neighbor well and drinking water? Oh, and then 2 cats ate the fish and died. HOW WOULD YOU KNOW!
purity levels are comparable, but BHO still has the edge... it's just a better solvent... BHO also tastes better, most ISO methods damage (heat) terpenes... you'll run into "bad" iso hash just as often as "bad" BHO
There are better labs producing it, there's too much money in it for some large organizations (I can name 3 in CO off the top of my head) not to be taking it seriously... and they brand their product, brag on their methods, back it up with lab tests, and the consumer can choose.
Uh... really? You're drawing a comparison to Meth labs? That's laughable. The process is no where near as dangerous, not even close, and even the most conservative media is going to have a hard time drawing any real comparison between the two because, ya know, it's NOT FUCKING METH!
Shit's being ruined before my state even has a chance to go medical.
There's always some bad eggs... don't throw the baby out with the bathwater though.
Funny Story. My friend asked me how to make BHO I told him and showed him and always stressed to DO IT OUTSIDE but he didn't listen. So he started blasting multiple tubes and cans in to a dish on the STOVE in an apartment building (Not his place) with the window open!!! (He thought that would help air out the butane) With the tube on the counter, and the bowl of washed matter still flashing off as well.So when he decided to purging the concentrate he decided to us a lighter to pops the butane bubbles that's when it flashed. The butane collected in the stove (heavier then air) when he sparked the lighter the oven he said jumped up about a foot or two and the oven door launched open and a fireball erupted from it (he was standing to the side of the oven so he didn't get hit) he said he used his arm to shield his face from the fireball but when he removed his arm the kitchen was on fire the spent buds in the bowl just burning the cabinets and plastic tube had fire shooting out both ends so me tried to push everything into the sink the tube fell on the ground he tries in vain to stomp the tube on fire out and it goes shooting into the living room burnt the carpet. The renter grabs an extinguisher puts everything out, cabinets burnt, kitchen just covered in soot. So STUPID, could have been much worst good thing for mandatory fire extinguishers in apartment buildings, put many people lives in danger for BHO. Stupid. If it was a house he'd have no fire extinguisher and it would have burnt it to the ground. Safety first when making extracts with butane and alcohol. Safer extracts are the tinctures, I like whiskey or vodka, add a little lemon juice of lime to a shot and you're set. Water hash or Kango cans works well too.
Oil guy, you were kind of relatively diplomatic in your reply to me, so I will bite my tongue here. I will respond to a couple of your points though:
Your story of the chemical waste water killing fish and cats eating them, as silly as it was, doesn't come close to analogizing a scenario where a house blows its roof off, killing a roommate and a next door neighbor.
And, regarding the comparison to meth labs... Laugh all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the media are ALREADY comparing the two. I didn't make that up. I'm sorry if it's uncomfortable to you that the media, and law enforcement agencies, are drawing the comparison, but it's too late. They are. As to which one is more dangerous, I'm sure anyone who truly analyzes it all would agree that meth labs are, technically. I mean, in addition to the probability of explosions and flash fire, they also offer more possibilities of chemical burns and noxious fumes. But, the majority of people don't care too much about nitpicking. They would just say that both scenarios are causing homes, hotels, and trailers to explode, and kill people, and pets.
Don't get mad at me for pointing out what the media and Leo's are already saying. The clock is ticking.
You are correct, there are always some bad eggs. But the bathwater is already being thrown out, and I'm not the one doing it, I'm just pointing it out. I work in a newsroom, and I hear about everything that happens out there in the world, and I'm telling you, whether you like it or not, that average citizens and law enforcement organizations are drawing comparisons to meth labs. And, these explosion stories are making it to mainstream, syndicated media shows now.
As I said before, the writing is already on the wall...
Your story of the chemical waste water killing fish and cats eating them, as silly as it was, doesn't come close to analogizing a scenario where a house blows its roof off, killing a roommate and a next door neighbor.
And, regarding the comparison to meth labs... Laugh all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the media are ALREADY comparing the two. I didn't make that up. I'm sorry if it's uncomfortable to you that the media, and law enforcement agencies, are drawing the comparison, but it's too late. They are. As to which one is more dangerous, I'm sure anyone who truly analyzes it all would agree that meth labs are, technically. I mean, in addition to the probability of explosions and flash fire, they also offer more possibilities of chemical burns and noxious fumes. But, the majority of people don't care too much about nitpicking. They would just say that both scenarios are causing homes, hotels, and trailers to explode, and kill people, and pets.
Don't get mad at me for pointing out what the media and Leo's are already saying. The clock is ticking.
You are correct, there are always some bad eggs. But the bathwater is already being thrown out, and I'm not the one doing it, I'm just pointing it out. I work in a newsroom, and I hear about everything that happens out there in the world, and I'm telling you, whether you like it or not, that average citizens and law enforcement organizations are drawing comparisons to meth labs. And, these explosion stories are making it to mainstream, syndicated media shows now.
As I said before, the writing is already on the wall...
OilGuy, "Uh... really? You're drawing a comparison to Meth labs? That's laughable. The process is no where near as dangerous, not even close,"
Exposed liquid butane is a quantum level increase in danger compared to every other solvent you're familiar with, understand that, or be an irresponsible fool, cruisin' for a bruisin.'
A more detailed explanation,
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6141376&postcount=146
Exposed liquid butane is a quantum level increase in danger compared to every other solvent you're familiar with, understand that, or be an irresponsible fool, cruisin' for a bruisin.'
A more detailed explanation,
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6141376&postcount=146
i get your point GW, it is why i wouldn't be in favor of a boycott. i also realize there are many thousands uf runs being done daily with no harm done. i also am a great believer in not punishing the innocent for the actions of the guilty idiots. your argument re gun control is very valid. many things in life are dangerous and forbidding them is not gonna do any real good, whether it's guns or making bho. i hate to see the politically correct crowd jump on the latest problem with some new infringement of basic liberty for the rest of us. in the end we have laws on the books for punishing people that endanger others and cause harm.
i'm hoping that as more states become organized, the bho production will be professionalized.
we do have one major advantage to the meth lab people, bho can be made safely and is not that hard to make safely. while meth is always gonna be dangerous to make. basically people teaching others need to make the safety aspect the first thing they teach. maybe with time and all these news stories about hash oil explosions will slow down as people wise up.
i'm hoping that as more states become organized, the bho production will be professionalized.
we do have one major advantage to the meth lab people, bho can be made safely and is not that hard to make safely. while meth is always gonna be dangerous to make. basically people teaching others need to make the safety aspect the first thing they teach. maybe with time and all these news stories about hash oil explosions will slow down as people wise up.
I understand that not everyone who makes it is putting others in danger, but the few that are are ruining it for the rest. That's all I can really say for sure. It's true that since I don't live in a med state, I can't speak on how dispensaries make their purchases, and I'm sorry for generalizing before, but there are so many explosions happening in medical states that it seems like some of these operations were intent on selling to dispensaries, and not on the black market. I won't weigh in anymore though, since I would be generalizing.
I do think education is the only way around it, if people are going to insist on making it instead of letting the Gray Wolfs of the world take care of it. I just have a suspicion that it might be too late, now that it's on the media's radar, and they love sensationalism. I do hope that this doesn't give cannabis extracts a black eye.
I do think education is the only way around it, if people are going to insist on making it instead of letting the Gray Wolfs of the world take care of it. I just have a suspicion that it might be too late, now that it's on the media's radar, and they love sensationalism. I do hope that this doesn't give cannabis extracts a black eye.
there is no doubt that it's hurting our rep and will probably get worse before it gets better.
once things are fully legal, producers will have to comply with basic safety codes and as long as it's not criminalized the price from the big producers will be bellow what a small op can achieve specially if they are not doing it safely. if they criminalize it people will keep making it in shady circumstances. basically closed systems are the way forward, they are cheaper in butane, as well as being much safer if used correctly.
once things are fully legal, producers will have to comply with basic safety codes and as long as it's not criminalized the price from the big producers will be bellow what a small op can achieve specially if they are not doing it safely. if they criminalize it people will keep making it in shady circumstances. basically closed systems are the way forward, they are cheaper in butane, as well as being much safer if used correctly.
Fourth one in Fresno in two weeks...
7 injured in Northeast Fresno honey oil explosion
Friday, January 17, 2014
FRESNO, Calif. (KFSN) -- Firefighters are investigating a small explosion in Northeast Fresno after seven people were sent to the hospital with burns.
It happened around five o'clock at an apartment complex near First and Gettysburg.
Firefighters say they received numerous 9-1-1 calls from neighbors who reported seeing heavy smoke coming from a courtyard.
When they arrived, they found several smoldering fires as well butane and other solvents used to extract what's called "honey oil" from marijuana.
Six males and one female were transported to the hospital with second degree burns to their arms, chests and heads, one suffered burns to more than fifty percent of his body.
Firefighters say it's the fourth explosion in less than two weeks.
(Copyright ©2014 KFSN-TV/DT. All Rights Reserved.)
http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=9397925
7 injured in Northeast Fresno honey oil explosion
Friday, January 17, 2014
FRESNO, Calif. (KFSN) -- Firefighters are investigating a small explosion in Northeast Fresno after seven people were sent to the hospital with burns.
It happened around five o'clock at an apartment complex near First and Gettysburg.
Firefighters say they received numerous 9-1-1 calls from neighbors who reported seeing heavy smoke coming from a courtyard.
When they arrived, they found several smoldering fires as well butane and other solvents used to extract what's called "honey oil" from marijuana.
Six males and one female were transported to the hospital with second degree burns to their arms, chests and heads, one suffered burns to more than fifty percent of his body.
Firefighters say it's the fourth explosion in less than two weeks.
(Copyright ©2014 KFSN-TV/DT. All Rights Reserved.)
http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=9397925
Facts hold little sway in emotional arguments, so you can be sure that we will continue to be demonized by those who don't care about differences and nuances. I don't like it, but am resigned to having the few making it difficult for the majority, just like pretty much everything else in life.
I was however refreshed by noting that Washington state rules list closed circuit bho as a viable option for a commercial processing center.
Besides being the most cost effective to operate thus far, I personally find BHO the easiest to adequately purge, with the least loss of monoterpenes.
Open blasting is less cost effective, but has no capital equipment investment requirements, and is the fastest yet for the initial extraction portion, because there is no time wasted, with the non core purpose task of recovering the butane.
Propane is easier yet, and will work in closed systems, but not so easily on open systems, so may haps it will escape the same excoriation?
I personally believe that CO2 will get there, from an aromatic pristine visual quality standpoint, but it will never be as cost effective as recycled butane, and currently takes 8 hours to accomplish what butane can do in less than 1.
Because of the high initial capital investment, high maintenance, and high operating costs, CO2 may well end up being the creme ala creme, but at a healthy premium, that many can't/won't afford.
Alcohols and longer chain alkanes do an excellent job of extracting, but purging them while holding on to the monoterpenes is far tougher, because the monoterpenes themselves are alcohols, ethers, ketones, aldehydes, esters, and carboxylic acids, which have high vapor pressure and/or are heat sensitive. Many leave with the alcohol, or are converted from their carboxylic acid forms by heat used to aid alcohol evaporation.
In truth, meth can be and is safely made as well, by commercial pharmaceutical companies, and you never hear a murmur. It is the ghetto setups that explode or seriously contaminate the facilities, not dissimilar to home bho explosions.
As ghastly as it sounds and as a tongue in cheek thought, the more publicity the home bho explosions get, the more likely bone heads will take it seriously, especially after the survivors start being prosecuted and made liable for damages.
Until there are more dire consequences, I predict that we will most likely continue to play, "Whack a Mole", with boneheads and sociopaths, as well as being painted with the same brush by ignorant and frightened brothers and sisters.
We don't need new laws to do so either. Just follow through with the existing ones about endangerment and property damage.
The ban of all dispensaries in an area with a huge mmj patient base is to blame IMO for this. I use to help run a dispensary in fresno we seen 300 patients a day. There were at least 4 of us doing these kinds of numbers. When you turn it all back to Craigslist and the black market more people are making it to try and sell it. It's a horrible trend in a city with supervisors, and a sheriff that outright hate mmj as is.
It is dangerous with that I agree, but wouldn't we be just as bad as them if we try to ban something that brings relief to soo many people just because of a few bad examples? We shouldn't be split on this issue. We need to educate not eradicate. Well at least that's my opinion.
there have been 4 incidents in 2 weeks in fresno area. the news had a story where firefighters were telling folks if they smell weed there might be a oil lab nearbye. beware
