Behind The Science

[Ringodoggie]

Odd to see such a difference just from the decarb process.

Here is a shot of the extract. This has been sitting for a few hours or more. I have some from yesterday that's much darker green.

Not too diff than your pic.

I am running some tests now using more extract and more acid to see if I get a different result.

Still, my best (and only) results so far have come from using the flowers, not the extract.

I can order some stronger acid but if you want to keep it a 'home' test, not many people are going to have lab grade hydrochloric acid hanging around. Concrete cleaner is everywhere.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Here's another shot.

The 3 in the front were done about an hour ago and were done with the prescribed 6-20-20 proportions. Not showing much. LOL

The 3 in the back left were done at the same time except each one used a 25mg flower sample in lieu as extract. They seem to be showing purple and even in the right order since the weakest pot is the one on the left.

The 3 on the right are with stronger amounts of extract and acid as you suggested and did. These were just done a moment ago and I'm awaiting a change.

Another comment. In the past 2 day's tests, the few that did show purple (not red) didn't show it quickly. It took a half hour or more to show. Usually more. Not sure if that tells you anything.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Here is a quick shot of what happened overnight. I'll dump all this and start over today. As you can see, everything darkened up a little but nothing but the flowers are purple. The front samples are more of a 'gray/blue' color.

I am getting zero response with extract. I'll try the 91%. Wouldn't make sense but I'm running out of ideas. Perhaps this denatured alcohol has something else in it. The SDS says what it says but... who knows. If it's anything like food labeling, it's all a lie anyway. LOL

I am going to order the 37% lab grade acid just to rule that out as a variable (or define it, maybe).

The vanillin is primo shit man. Lab grade. Can I breath this stuff? It smells delicious.

I am also going to try larger vials (1 dram) with larger quantities of everything. Again, doesn't make sense but..... until you try, you just don't know.

I am snowed in so I am in for the day to play with toys. Feel free to make requests to straighten this out. I can follow exact instructions well (married 40 years).

Is there any way to test this solution to determine concentrate. I have some Sodium Hydroxide. What would I have around the house that has phenolphthalein?

Off to play.

 

[Mystic Funk]

hey Ringo!
i've been pulling my hair out for the past few days trying to wrap my head around what went wrong with the test for you and i've tried so many tests to see if i could replicate your results and i've come up with two reasons why your test isn't working or is it???


lets get some things straight first. i'm not trying to be jerk when i say this but it needs to need to be said so you can get your testing up to par and as accurate as possible and for you to do so you need to follow the instructions TO THE LETTER, like i said before... so take the time and really read this...

first off, i told you not to use flowers in the thc test but you continue to do so anyway because you think your getting color change and your not. let me explain: when you use whole flower in a acid base test like this you're discoloring the test because the acid being used is so strong and mixed at such a high ratio with the other ingredients its burning and breaking down the flower and turning it a brown color. i know you'd like it to be purple but that's not purple and that not any other color to indicate the presents of cannabinoids. so please for the last time, don't use whole flowers in this thc test. extracts only! if you'd like to use whole flower in the other guys curt's or doug's test, then fine but not in my tests you'll get a false positive like you are now....
again just so you know if you still insist on using it in the cbd test you can't compare any samples against each other because each plant has different chlorophyll, nutrient and mineral levels in them and they will react with the test and change the color so it's a crap shoot. example: your c99 turn a crazy red color which wasn't from thc.

i don't appreciate you saying that this isn't a true "home test" ether due to fact that you think the acid isn't readily available but you can read the first post where it clearly says you can buy ALL of the necessary ingredients on ebay or amazon for cheap and i didn't say you could buy anything at home depot or lowes except for the denatured alcohol, which does work with this test, i'm using some now. DON'T USE 91% ALCOHOL. like i said before. it will dilute the mix and not extract as good as denatured, but do as you will.

also you have no idea what it took for me to make this test as easy and user friendly as it is. the original test calls for many chemicals, tools and lab equipment that is not safe for or easily bought for non-chemists like yourself. in other words i've spent a lot of time and money for you guys so you didn't have to go through what i did for it and i'm giving it out freely for you to use so we can all grow high quality bud and your saying it's not good enough for you because you can't buy it all at the home depot...WTF?


next i went out of my way to the hardware store today and bought the cheapest muriatic acid i could find so i could truly test and see if it worked for myself and it DOES work but just not as good as the 37% acid. i got a clear color change and it happened immediately... but it was a lighter blue color than the 37%. i'll show you below in the pic.

ok lets go over what i found in these tests i've done for you to figure out what's up on your end.
first vial from the left is the test sample before adding the acid just to show you what it should look like.
second vial is the standard test but with muriatic acid from the hardware store.
third vial is the standard test again but with five more drops of acid, i saw no better results...
fourth vial is the standard test but with three more drops of extract, i saw little result difference....
fifth vial is the standard test but with 37% acid not from the hardware store. that's the control.
sixth vial is the standard test but with no extract in it. which is the closest i could get to your samples...???

ok with that said. let's go over what you've done one more time.


you have the pure synthetic vanillin and mixing it right, then that's right...

you're extracting the cannabinoids with denatured as i said, then that's right...

you're decarbing your bud at 240F for one half hour. then that's right, i've already tested that earlier...

you're using hardware store muriatic acid which does work just not as good, so that right...


if you've followed the recipe to the letter and mixing the amounts in the test tube correctly, then you should be getting a color change if there is thc to be had???


i have gone as far as to mixing everything incorrectly and sway the results as much as possible and i've yet to find out what's going wrong but i still keep getting at least some color change in each test??? and your not???


what's the only thing left??? what's different from yours to mine???................ your sample bud is different!!!
i think your test was working the whole time and i think the only thing left it could be is your bud is so low in thc it's not reacting to the test, which is giving you a false negative. i noticed the last pic where the samples were left over night and they began to turn a faint blue color which is a sign of very, very low thc. like 3-5%


if you really don't think this is the case then the only thing left is you didn't follow the instructions correctly. i don't know what else to tell you.


good luck with your test and i hope you find out what's going on.


BTW, NO you can't snort lines of the vanillin LOL but it is edible. this is what they use to flavor foods and candy with.



peace!
-mystic

 

[Ringodoggie]

Geeze, you sound like my wife. LMAO

OK, honey, I'm sorry. LOL

I have been pressing some rosin. I'll finish cleaning that up and we'll run the tests again..... to the letter.

I'll try to doc every step including labels of the products I'm using and all.

As far as the pot being good, you couldn't prove it by me. I smoke 5 or 6 pounds a year and my tolerance is so sky high, I haven't been high for years. It's just a hobby for me.

But, I have been growing for 50 years and spent a good part of my life as a drug dealer so I know good dope from bad dope. To everyone else, it's always one-hit pot. I'm not sure if looks are any indication but, here's a couple shots of what I'm pressing.

So, I think the pot is OK. We'll find out what the problem is.

Let me get cleaned up and start over.

First question..... preparing the extract. What is the optimum time for soaking? I don't want to make it tonight and not use it until tomorrow if overnight is too long.

What? A couple hours? No more than an hour?

Like prunes. Is 3 enough? Are 6 too many.

Back soon. I need to clean up rosin remains. If it would help, I have some fresh pressed rosin we can use for testing. I also have a few ounces of hash somewhere around here.

 

[Mystic Funk]

hey ringo! sorry man but i've never had such a problem getting color on this test. i've had many others do it first try and no problems???
pretty flowers you have there. is this the same strain your testing?


extract:
take .5 grams of your bestest most sticky icky bud you have that's all ready been decarbs and place that in 5 grams denatured alcohol. here's a tip, be very careful handling the bud and don't break it up with your fingers first. just drop it in a glass cup or vial and then grab a wooden spoon handle or something and crush the weed while its in the alcohol, that way you don't lose half the resin glands on your hands and they stay in the alcohol. best testing that way.
ok, now shake if you have a lid for the glass or stir it around until everything is well mixed up.
then wait for everything to settle to the bottom. you can test this as soon as its a somewhat see through yellow liquid on the top and this is what you then suck off and use for the test.

i've tested extracts that that were fresh, like only soaking for a hour. that's what i did last night for the decarb test and i've also tested extracts that sat for 24 hours or longer, but i'm sure the longer it sets the more thc you'll get out of it. but ether way, you should see color right away with the thc test and you'll know. you don't have to wait more than a few minutes even with the crappy acid.


you can test rosin and hash too. you must decarb it and then make extract with it to test.

all you should need is a small piece less than the .5 grams needed for the bud test.

please do me a favor and test some of your best rosin.
take a small dab sized piece and put it in a little alcohol and dissolve it and test that.
if this doesn't make a color reaction nothing will.


peace!
-mystic

 

[Ringodoggie]

Duh..... Just FYI. Any muriatic acid that says, "Green" on it is only about 21%.

All other "standard" muriatic concrete cleaner is 31% - 35%.

I grabbed the green.

I'll try some standard stuff tomorrow. If that doesn't work, I'll order the 37% stuff.

Sorry to frustrate you. I do that to everyone. It's part of (one of) my mental illness(es).

I'll make you proud, Mom.

Anyone else here tried this? I seem to be the only guinea pig. LOL

 

[Ringodoggie]

Well, honey, are ya proud of your little grasshopper. LOL

It might be worth an honorable mention in your instructions that GREEN muriatic acids don't work. Might save someone else this same trouble.

 

[Ringodoggie]

What's actually pretty cool (and it's not real evident in the pictures) is that the 3rd from the left is sugar leaves and should (and does) show a slightly lighter color.

The far right is a high CBD/low THC Med Tree Continuum.

Oh, and if you ever cast dispersion upon the quality of my pot again, I'm going to bitch-slap the punk right outta you. ROTFLMAO.. j/k bud.

Thanks again for the tolerance. I've been told by others that I can be mildly difficult to work with at times. LMAO

Everybody loves a happy ending.

 

[Ringodoggie]

OK, I'm ready to try your CBD test.

Except, I'm going to use flowers. And, I'm going to change this and I'm going to revise that.

I'll be back later to complain that your test doesn't work. LMAO

 

[Mystic Funk]

that's great man you got some results! it's about time! LMAO!!!
sorry for dissing your bud but you told me in the beginning that you had 30%+ acid which should make the test work and the only thing left would be that the bud was so low in thc it wasn't reacting to the test. so i'm sorry??? lol!
also it does say to ONLY use hydrochloric acid 37% or higher which would rule out anything lesser. like the acid you got. again, i'm sorry??? lol!


anyway, i'm glad everything worked out in the end and you got some true color.



peace!
-mystic

 

[Ringodoggie]

Geeze dude, lighten up on the sorry's. You're making me feel bad. I was just pulling your chain. I should be kissing your ass for walking me through that. LOL

And, it was totally me that picked up the 'green' shit. Just goes to show. Anything that is good for the earth will probably suck and not perform as you expect. LOL

I am decarbing some high CBD samples right now. I'll test them in a little bit. Decarbing some rosin for edibles at the same time.

I just got my KOH today so I can use that (although I have some NaOH already mixed so I'll be trying that too. LMAO Sorry.) LOL

Thanks again for your patience.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Have you tried the CBD test on extract made from NON-decarb'd samples?

 

[Mystic Funk]

Have you tried the CBD test on extract made from NON-decarb'd samples?

no i haven't yet because i always test for thc at the same time to find the best ratios.
i have a 1:1 and a 2:1 harlequin sample now that i've tested. i like to find out what each of the samples effects are and the ratios that follow. so the extract sample is always decarbed.
i plain on testing some non-decarbed samples in veg to see if i can test them before flower and save a lot of time and space.



peace!
-mystic

 

[Ringodoggie]

Excuse me, Mr Funk. How long is the reagent good for after it's mixed?

The Vanillin seems to last pretty well but the KOH turns a little yellow after a couple days. Does not seem to affect the test results but I was just curious how long after mixing these two items remain useful.

Thanks

 

[Mystic Funk]

Excuse me, Mr Funk. How long is the reagent good for after it's mixed?

The Vanillin seems to last pretty well but the KOH turns a little yellow after a couple days. Does not seem to affect the test results but I was just curious how long after mixing these two items remain useful.

Thanks

hey Ringo!
i've used reagents that were a year or older and they seemed to work just as good as the day i made them. i make bulk solutions so i don't have to make it each time i want to do a quick test and it takes me a long time to use the reagent up.

did you end up doing the CBD test yet???


peace!
-mystic

 

[Ringodoggie]

did you end up doing the CBD test yet???

Not yet. My band had 2 gigs this week and I have been beat up. Getting too old for this rock and roll star shit. LOL

I did do some testing and everything seems to be working just fine. But, I wanted to test and find out why Curt's test is so different. I get very different results in the 2 tests so I wanted to find out why his works without decarbing and yours does not.

Other than that, everything seems to be working A-OK. I am passing this info on to other CBD growers. Thanks for sharing.

I know we got the original ideas for these tests from old patents but now, CBG is the next big thing and I couldn't find shit on that. Guess they didn't know what it was back then. LOL

Any info on testing for CBG?

 

[Ringodoggie]

I had a rather unsuccessful night testing edibles.

CB uses this same 'color' method to test edibles. I can not imagine in my wildest dreams how they compensate for all the other substances in the food.

I did try doing some tests on some butter and some coconut oil I had. All I got was some green and blue goop.

I also tried to test some e-juice that I made but, again, all the VG and PG and crap is definitely getting in the way.

It would be nice to have a butter/oil test. I often make butter or oil from leftovers. Like rosin chips or whatever. It's usually impossible to tell the potency without simple eating some and seeing what happens. LOL

The butter/oil is already decarb'd, so that's good. I mixed different percentages with alcohol (and straight) and just couldn't get anything solid.

I wonder what the parameters are for the CB scientific edibles test.

 

[Mystic Funk]

Not yet. My band had 2 gigs this week and I have been beat up. Getting too old for this rock and roll star shit. LOL

I did do some testing and everything seems to be working just fine. But, I wanted to test and find out why Curt's test is so different. I get very different results in the 2 tests so I wanted to find out why his works without decarbing and yours does not.

Other than that, everything seems to be working A-OK. I am passing this info on to other CBD growers. Thanks for sharing.

I know we got the original ideas for these tests from old patents but now, CBG is the next big thing and I couldn't find shit on that. Guess they didn't know what it was back then. LOL

Any info on testing for CBG?

hey Ringo.
this test will react to CBG also.
i believe the reason the two tests show different results is that curt's test uses higher concentrations of lye and it also uses charcoal to create a faster reaction.
i wanted my test to only show high amounts of CBD/CBG above 5%. so i wasn't wasting my time on lesser plants



peace!
-mystic

 

[Ringodoggie]

What are your thoughts on butter/oil testing?