Behind The Science

[Mystic Funk]

What role does the vanillin play in this test?

Also, to answer yours.... yes the CBD test works with samples that have not been decarb'd.

And, the carbon speeds of the process. I'm not sure exactly what the extra oxygen does but I ran 2 of the CBD tests as described in this thread side by side except I added a few granules of carbon to one and the only difference was the one with carbon was done in <1/2 hour and the other took several hours to completely darken up.

After sitting overnight, they were both about the same.

vanillin plays a key part in the reagent and if there are cannabinoid present they are consumed in the chemical reaction and you will get a color change..... and no you can't use organic vanilla in this test, it won't work. you must use pure uncut synthetic vanillin.


peace!
-mystic

 

[Guest]

Another great thread,found my way here through the mexican one
Thanks for all the useful info!Keep us posted with whatever you're doing

 

[troutman]

Just found a cannabinoid test with vanillin.

Duquenois–Levine reagent

 

[Mystic Funk]

Another great thread,found my way here through the mexican one
Thanks for all the useful info!Keep us posted with whatever you're doing

thanks man!
i'll try and keep it coming to you guys and thanks for the support!


peace!
-mystic

 

[Ringodoggie]

OK, another question. (If I may, please )

After decarb'ing the pot, you instruct to place 0.5 gram in 5 grams of alcohol for 1/2 hour.

If I'm not in a hurry, I could let it sit longer. Or, even overnight.

Is it better (or worse) to let it soak in the alcohol longer than 1/2 hour? If worse, why?

Thanks

 

[Mystic Funk]

OK, another question. (If I may, please )

After decarb'ing the pot, you instruct to place 0.5 gram in 5 grams of alcohol for 1/2 hour.

If I'm not in a hurry, I could let it sit longer. Or, even overnight.

Is it better (or worse) to let it soak in the alcohol longer than 1/2 hour? If worse, why?

Thanks

hey!
because alcohol is bad at extracting oils and cannabinoids from cannabis.... the best you could get with a long soak is about 80 to 90% extraction rate... but if you used chloroform to extract with you'd get 100% right away. like i said in the the instructions, chloroform is super dangerous though.
so the longer the better with the soak in alcohol and make sure it's 100% alcohol for obvious reasons and don't let it sit too long or the extract will turn green or other color from the weed.



peace!
-mystic

 

[bilko]

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[Ringodoggie]

Which is the better alcohol... denatured alcohol from the local hardware store. I believe this is a mix of ethenol and methanol. Or, maybe ethanol and methanol.

Or, Everclear 190 proof?

I have and am using the denatured alcohol but I do have access to Everclear (even though in my state even that is illegal. LOL) if it is better than the denatured alcohol.

My vanillin should be here tomorrow so I can start some real testing.

 

[Mystic Funk]

Which is the better alcohol... denatured alcohol from the local hardware store. I believe this is a mix of ethenol and methanol. Or, maybe ethanol and methanol.

Or, Everclear 190 proof?

I have and am using the denatured alcohol but I do have access to Everclear (even though in my state even that is illegal. LOL) if it is better than the denatured alcohol.

My vanillin should be here tomorrow so I can start some real testing.

Denatured alcohol is better than everclear due to the fact it has no water in it and the added methanol is better at extracting cannabinoids then alcohol by itself. If you can get your hands on pure methanol or hexane it is way better than alcohol at extraction. But again I call for alcohol in the recipe because it's cheap and available for most people.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Well, I have done these tests a dozen times and I am getting zero results. I'll run through what I did and maybe someone can catch my error.

First, I decarb'd some of my very best Hazeman XXX. This stuff is so covered with resin glands that it's difficult to handle. Probably my strongest samples. Dried, cured and stored at 55% RH for about 3 months.

To decarb, you said 230F for 30m and my standard for 50 years has been 240F for 40 min. So, I did vary from your instructions just a tiny bit there. However, I don't believe that would affect the test so, we'll ASSume that's OK.

Next, I weighed out 1/2 gram. My scale is accurate to 1mg and I calibrate it so, I'm probably pretty close on weights.

I ground that up a little with my fingers and put it in a small container. I put the container with the sample on the scale and tared it. Then, I used my eye dropper to add 5 grams of alcohol.

The alcohol I am using is denatured alcohol from home depot. The ingredients read ethanol and methanol.

Next, I made the reagent. I am using 98+% lab grade Vanillin. I mixed .5 grams with 10ml of the denatured alcohol. That is 1/10th of your recipe so, again I varied but, again, I think I'm OK. I placed that is an amber bottle and set it aside. (Is it dangerous to smell this stuff because it sure smells good. The bottle says it can cause respiratory damage. Just curious if it's safe to breath).

Now, I am ready to test. The extract has been in the alcohol for 35 minutes. It is pretty clear but a little green tint to it.

I am using small centrifugal vials just like yours. 3 drops and 10 + 10 drops was a little small from my pipette (although, I did try it that way later) so I went with....

I placed 6 drops of my extract in the vial. Then, I put 20 drops of the reagent in the vial and shook it for 30 seconds. Then, I added 20 drops of the Muriatic acid and closed the vial. Shake for 30 seconds and place it in the rack.

30 minutes later, the very light green had turned to a slightly darker green but there was definitely no blue and not the beautiful vibrant purples that I got doing the CBD tests using the lye, 91% alcohol and carbon (curt's method).

Not sure what I am doing wrong. I have tried a dozen variations of your method (THC tests only) and I am getting zilch. I tried exactly as above with 24 and 30 drops of acid (as per your earlier suggestion).

I tried the extract that has been sitting on my bench soaking for 2 days. Only difference there was that the greens were darker from sitting in the alcohol so long.

I am going to go back and try more variations. Perhaps using the 91% ISO will work in place of the 100% (supposedly) denatured. Maybe it's the Muriatic acid concentration. the datasheet just says <30%. It doesn't give a real concentration.

I am open to suggestions.

If you need pics or any details of what I'm doing, feel free.

I'm am headed back to the lab to try the CBD tests. I have some killer CBD pot that was showing beautiful royal purple in previous tests.

Thanks

 

[Ringodoggie]

Now, THAT'S what I'm talkin' about. Love purple. LOL

This is more what I meant when I said 'combining methods' a while back. Using your method but substituting an actual flower sample (as in curt's method) rather than the extract seems to have worked.

The nice purp on the far left and the one right next to it are identical tests. One using the extract made from decarb'd pot, soaked in denatured alcohol for 1 hour and the other one using a 50mg sample of uncarb'd fresh pot. Fresh pot is showing which is contrary to showing only THC, not TCHa. Decarb'd extract is just showing light green, maybe a little grayish.

Far right... CBD tests. Glass vial is dried (but not decarb'd) high CBD using ISO/lye and carbon method. The plastic cent vial is the same pot sample with your method. Not showing at all.

Just something to think about and comment on. I'm back to the lab for more tests. My creature..... it lives.

LOL

 

[Ringodoggie]

False alarm... LOL I'm pretty sure that red is just pigment from the flower sample. That's a particularly purple strain of Cinderella99. That strain even leaves big purple/red spots on the parchment when I press it. So, I think those red results are something other than THC.

I am getting some real purple results from some other tests. Mostly decarb'd pot although I am getting some very light purple from fresh samples. Which is more in line of what we're looking for.

Still getting zero results using any extract. All my success stories are using actual flower samples (around 35 mg each).

 

[Ringodoggie]

Here are some more results. Pretty much getting what's expected.

The flash took something away from the color but the red is a bright, almost blood red color and the 2 purples that came out are pretty dark and definitely purple by Crayola's standards.

Of the 6 up front, the 3 on the left are NOT decarb'd. The 3 on the right ARE decarb'd.

All tests were done using flower samples except the last on the right (which is showing nothing).

The 3 on the left are showing nothing, pretty much like they should (other than that beautiful red Cindy99).

The next 2 are from 2 different strains of decarb'd pot. And, the last is tested with extract from decarb'd pot and denatured alcohol that's been sitting since I started this morning.

The 3 tests on the foam on the far right are CBD tests. Again, flowers worked, extract did not.

 

[Mystic Funk]

Now, THAT'S what I'm talkin' about. Love purple. LOL

This is more what I meant when I said 'combining methods' a while back. Using your method but substituting an actual flower sample (as in curt's method) rather than the extract seems to have worked.

The nice purp on the far left and the one right next to it are identical tests. One using the extract made from decarb'd pot, soaked in denatured alcohol for 1 hour and the other one using a 50mg sample of uncarb'd fresh pot. Fresh pot is showing which is contrary to showing only THC, not TCHa. Decarb'd extract is just showing light green, maybe a little grayish.

Far right... CBD tests. Glass vial is dried (but not decarb'd) high CBD using ISO/lye and carbon method. The plastic cent vial is the same pot sample with your method. Not showing at all.

Just something to think about and comment on. I'm back to the lab for more tests. My creature..... it lives.

LOL


View Image

i'm not sure what is going on for you but you've seen my pics of the harlequin and others that were deep purple. so i know the test works.
looking at all of your pics, i don't see any that changed color or tested positive for any cannabinoids??? maybe the one in the vial to the right may have 3% or less but its very hard to tell when there's bud in the sample.

while i review everything again i need you to try something for me. go find a piece of concrete or if you have a basement go down there with gloves and glasses on and with your dropper put a few drops of the hydrochloric acid on the concrete and watch for smoke and sizzling on the concrete, if nothing happens, its not strong enough.
after that pour some water on that spot to stop the reaction.



peace!
-mystic

 

[Ringodoggie]

Check out the second pic and post. Definitely getting cannabinoids showing on those 2 samples of decarb'd.

I'll do the concrete test and get back to ya.

 

[Ringodoggie]

I did the concrete test and the acid bubbled and sizzled. No smoking that I noticed.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Been doing a little searching and reading SDS's.

Concrete cleaner seems to run between 22% and 34%. depending on brand.

Lowes seems to have the strongest with Jasco brand claiming 31% - 35%. What I am using claims simply <30% but some posts in forums are claiming between 21% and 31%. And older SDS from 2014 had it listed as 20%. The newer one just says <30%.

I'll pop over to Lowes and get some Jasco. 31-35% should be fine, yes? On the low end, is 24% enough?

I am currently running more tests using extract only. Results in about a half hour.

I think the problem using extract may be the denatured alcohol. How would acetone affect the test? It might be a better solvent to extract than the denatured.

 

[Mystic Funk]

I did the concrete test and the acid bubbled and sizzled. No smoking that I noticed.

ok if it did that then it should be strong enough but i'm still not 100% positive. there could be other chemicals added they aren't saying that is reacting with the test???

i just went and did some tests to try and figure out what's going on with your tests and i might have a few answers for you?

.1 you might be working with the lowest grade swagg weed i've ever seen and that's why your test isn't changing color? LOL! just kidding!

.2 something like one of the chemicals your using isn't up to par with the test? acid, vanillin, extract???

.3 your ratios are off and i'm just not seeing it???

so what i need you to do is go back and make sure, really sure you didn't mix something right or missed a step....


in the meantime, check out what i've done and found when doing some tests.


in the first pic below i have two known test sample extracts i've made, GorillaGlue#4 and item #9

i started out by just testing the samples the way i normally do and i got two different but dark colors as expected. from left to right, (GG#4 is #1) and (item #9 is #2) (this is the control)

the next two (#3 is GG#4) and (#4 is item #9)
these i added one drop of water to the mix to see if i could replicate a weak acid mix and got little color change from the control.

next set... again, (#5 is GG#4) and (#6 is item #9) i added 3 drops of water and got a big color difference from the control and they look something like what you got for color change.

so the next set, (#7 is GG#4) and (#8 is item #9) i did the same thing and put three drops of water but i also add an extra 3 drops of extract and i got better color change.

next set i still added three drops of water but i also added five more drops of acid and got better color change but different from the ones before.

so this is something to play with and see if you get better results.


also the last two vials at the end are what your extract should look like when your done with it. it should be a rich yellowish green color and not clear, if it's clear you didn't shake it long enough or it didn't have enough time to sit.



peace!
-mystic

 

[Mystic Funk]

Been doing a little searching and reading SDS's.

Concrete cleaner seems to run between 22% and 34%. depending on brand.

Lowes seems to have the strongest with Jasco brand claiming 31% - 35%. What I am using claims simply <30% but some posts in forums are claiming between 21% and 31%. And older SDS from 2014 had it listed as 20%. The newer one just says <30%.

I'll pop over to Lowes and get some Jasco. 31-35% should be fine, yes? On the low end, is 24% enough?

I am currently running more tests using extract only. Results in about a half hour.

I think the problem using extract may be the denatured alcohol. How would acetone affect the test? It might be a better solvent to extract than the denatured.

check out the post above, but i was thinking the acid is not up to par.


use the denatured alcohol, that's what i just used and it works great like i said. i know it works from my tests.


peace!
-mystic

 

[Mystic Funk]

i also just tested both of are decarb methods and they both work fine but in different ways.

the reason i ended up using the 220F at a hour was because i found the 240F or the standard 250F decarbs way too much cannabinoids and it becomes too hard to tell the tests apart. you'll see below.

this is good to know because if you have a very weak cultivar, you can turn the heat up a bit and get a better color test.


the first three in the pic were decarbed at 250F for one half hour. 1# cherry lotus, 2# ghost train haze#1 3# supercritical


the same order for the next set, four through six were decarbed at 220F for one half hour.

peace!
-mystic