For me, if it doesn't have any Terps it ain't quality. Those terps add to the effect 100%. I always have difficulties describing them to others.
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Aromas, tastes and perceptions
- Thread starter Ralph W. Llama
- Start date
fenchol is a secondary terp but is a major component of kush flavor, well OG at least, it's found in basil, I think I have tried to describe the flavor as fennel before, I notice it in triangle kush, I95, certain chem de la chem phenos, bubba, bubbaXchem4, diagonal, and in some 91 once but I'm not sure if it was legit 91
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I really like this topic and have done alot ofvreading on it as well. Terpene synthase genes are great to look into. All sequiterpenes start off as fpp and all monoterpenes start off as gpp. From there the synthase genes work with an enzyme to transform tge precursors into terpene/sequiterpenes. Many of these synthase have intermediary products and co production products. Also most of these secondary metabolites have a function which initiates their production. Abiotic stresses like drought heavy metals uv herbivore etc and others attract pollinators or even enemies of plants predators. If we can distinguish these cause and effects should be able to influence desired metabolites to be synthesized
Are you saying cannabis is either one or the other?
There's an analysis of green tea, and it has a variety of aromatic and aliphatic molecules. To say another plant would be either one or the other, rather than a complex mix is counter intuitive. Dominance one way or the other maybe... but I keep an open mind.
Interesting and important topic though, and I'm not being dismissive.
Ralph, glad to see got to making this thread.
Flavonoids are undoubtedly nice to have, but they are probably not a major flavor contributor. They tend to add bitterness, but in small amounts can enhance other flavors. (Penn state paper).
Same goes for terpenes.. I'm definitely not sold on their usefulness. (Not sure about more complex terpenoids) have a plant right now from mendo2020, avenue of the Giants, and boy does it ever stink. Lots of terpenes, maybe the highest in anything I've grown.. talk about shit to none in the flavor dept. Absolutely bland weed in both taste and effects... Interestingly, you notice the 'hint' of a nice aftertaste, only after done smoking, but none during.
Anyone in CT is welcome to try some.
Entourage effect, or placebo effect...??
Some of my best tasting plants in the past have been from 'sketchy' sources.
HSO chemdog: smelled of toasted bitter chemmy skunk, tasted of menthol vapors and camphor, with more complexity, like a jar of cardomom seeds, and an earthy skunky underbelly. Quantity and quality of flavor were outstanding.
Emerald triangle blueberry headband:
Another questionable 'cali' company, but I grew that shit in 09, and have gone back to it twice since, and it's been reliable seeds over a 10 year period.
First run had a spiky nail polish remover in the scent, subsequent runs still had it, but with more complexity. Taste is so freaking fresh, like an expensive flowery laundry detergent, (a non-indole flowery), and wine. Every hit, til the end.
Ch9's Jack 33... Tasted like the first several chews of a mouthful of lemon Skittles.. sweet, waxy, lemony. With a very clean lemon, not like so many lemon plants that have lemon backed up by savory elements that I don't like. Every hit till the end, just fills the palate w sugary creamy lemon.
More recently, a member here named browntrout gave me some of his tripleberry f2 seeds, and had a few very tasty individuals in the berry/anise spectrum and one that was warm strawberry. Not sure if he still has any but worth a look.
The next generation of warm strawberry x warm strawberry gave a very special strawberry pine tree thing.
Flavonoids are undoubtedly nice to have, but they are probably not a major flavor contributor. They tend to add bitterness, but in small amounts can enhance other flavors. (Penn state paper).
Same goes for terpenes.. I'm definitely not sold on their usefulness. (Not sure about more complex terpenoids) have a plant right now from mendo2020, avenue of the Giants, and boy does it ever stink. Lots of terpenes, maybe the highest in anything I've grown.. talk about shit to none in the flavor dept. Absolutely bland weed in both taste and effects... Interestingly, you notice the 'hint' of a nice aftertaste, only after done smoking, but none during.
Anyone in CT is welcome to try some.
Entourage effect, or placebo effect...??
Some of my best tasting plants in the past have been from 'sketchy' sources.
HSO chemdog: smelled of toasted bitter chemmy skunk, tasted of menthol vapors and camphor, with more complexity, like a jar of cardomom seeds, and an earthy skunky underbelly. Quantity and quality of flavor were outstanding.
Emerald triangle blueberry headband:
Another questionable 'cali' company, but I grew that shit in 09, and have gone back to it twice since, and it's been reliable seeds over a 10 year period.
First run had a spiky nail polish remover in the scent, subsequent runs still had it, but with more complexity. Taste is so freaking fresh, like an expensive flowery laundry detergent, (a non-indole flowery), and wine. Every hit, til the end.
Ch9's Jack 33... Tasted like the first several chews of a mouthful of lemon Skittles.. sweet, waxy, lemony. With a very clean lemon, not like so many lemon plants that have lemon backed up by savory elements that I don't like. Every hit till the end, just fills the palate w sugary creamy lemon.
More recently, a member here named browntrout gave me some of his tripleberry f2 seeds, and had a few very tasty individuals in the berry/anise spectrum and one that was warm strawberry. Not sure if he still has any but worth a look.
The next generation of warm strawberry x warm strawberry gave a very special strawberry pine tree thing.
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Ralph W. Llama
Active member
Another article on the plethora of compounds in cannabis and their interactions, https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2016.00019/full.
I wonder if that cardamom could be from fenchol as well
I have noticed something in chem strains especially when they are fresh that is like tiger balm, I have seen it described as camphor a lot, it was in the gg4 I grew when it was fresh, and in the ghost pheno of some larry seeds I grew also from a sketchy source lol, mothballs would be another possible description
it's funny because it's not the "gas" part of the flavor but is 100% why the flavor sticks to the palate like it does on those strains imo
the degree of fenchol in the finish is usually how I decipher how much kush is in the strain, I find it to be more concentrated and drawn out in bubba vs OG for example, and it plays a bigger role in the OG finish than in a pure chem
There's a ton of fruity seeds to be had. SLH or anything Blueberry made by someone that used proper selections is where to start..Im not a fan of the fruity side, pine is OK.
Ralph W. Llama
Active member
More evidence that flavors and effects are related.
“Terpenes and cannabinoids share common isoprenoid precursors (Fig. 1). The most abundant cannabinoids in different cannabis cultivars are THCA and CBDA, which are produced by cannabinoid synthases from cannabigerolic acid (CBGA; Sirikantaramas et al., 2004; Taura et al., 2007). CBGA is formed by condensation of the monoterpene precursor geranyl diphosphate (GPP) with the aromatic polyketide olivetolic acid (OA; Fellermeier and Zenk, 1998).” From this paper, https://academic.oup.com/plphys/article/184/1/130/6117797#226703666
“Terpenes and cannabinoids share common isoprenoid precursors (Fig. 1). The most abundant cannabinoids in different cannabis cultivars are THCA and CBDA, which are produced by cannabinoid synthases from cannabigerolic acid (CBGA; Sirikantaramas et al., 2004; Taura et al., 2007). CBGA is formed by condensation of the monoterpene precursor geranyl diphosphate (GPP) with the aromatic polyketide olivetolic acid (OA; Fellermeier and Zenk, 1998).” From this paper, https://academic.oup.com/plphys/article/184/1/130/6117797#226703666
Im sure we all have heard of Aromatherapy.. Terps def play a big role in cannabis.
Ralph W. Llama
Active member
Aromatherapy is still a bit hippy dippy, I am looking for more scientific results and terps are only part of the equation. I heard a Fresh Air recently about how giant pandas roll in horse poop during the winter to get sesquiterpenes from the plants the horses eat , which has been proven to produce a warming reaction on their skin. Now that is some science! 
Ralph W. Llama
Active member
The Elvis bagseed genetic inputs have been vital to the best effects, smells and flavors that I've been lucky enough to work with. So, it's time for a little history.
The one pictured below is from the initial Elvis bagseed pop, Elvish#2. I was gifted 8 seeds in 2004 that were gleaned from several bags purchased by a well-connected friend in the Burlington area. He shared the flowers too and I had a few bags of my own along the way.
Elvis was special weed, with flavors and effects that were worth chasing. It still seems to be on lockdown in its original clone form, a rare feat these days.
I popped 4 of the original 8 and then stupidly added the other 4 to mixed bag of backcross seeds a few years later. I know the bag and keep trying to find them, popping a few beans when I have space and time.
The Elvish#1 was a low to moderate yielder, with extreme mandarin orange aromas and flavors. Its effects were up, but nothing as extreme as the flavor. She also had a peculiar type of resin that would not stop burning once ignited. I don't smoke, but friends would comment that joints would burn themselves and bowls needed to be very actively snuffed. I haven't seen this volatility before or since, although the Sunny D plant I currently run has very similar smells. I didn't make many crosses with her, and the few beans I tried didn't seem to lead anywhere. The clone was let go after 2 or 3 runs.
Elvish#2 had good yields and the most intense muscle melt pain-relief effects. You could feel the knots untie and the body bliss roll over you in a big wave. It also had a bright berry aroma and flavor with a head shop incense smell after vaping, only it smelled real, not fake. I did some crosses and tried to keep her for as long I could, which was ~2 years. So far, nothing of note has come from the crosses, but I have barely tried.
Elvish#3 had the lowest yield, mellow moderate effects and a peanut aroma and flavor. There are a couple crosses in the vault, but no work on them yet. She exited very quickly from the stage.
Elvish#4 was the clone I kept the longest and did the most work with, for good reason. She was the biggest yielder, had the best flavor and sported super up happy effects. The flavor was berries and hint of the polyester, part of what makes the true Elvis so awesome. I made the first cross with my Sk#1 family, then used a male from that to start the Chelvis line. I kept her for 4 years and made multiple crosses and backcrosses, some of my favorites to date too.
If you get a chance to try or grow the real Elvis, take it.
The one pictured below is from the initial Elvis bagseed pop, Elvish#2. I was gifted 8 seeds in 2004 that were gleaned from several bags purchased by a well-connected friend in the Burlington area. He shared the flowers too and I had a few bags of my own along the way.
Elvis was special weed, with flavors and effects that were worth chasing. It still seems to be on lockdown in its original clone form, a rare feat these days.
I popped 4 of the original 8 and then stupidly added the other 4 to mixed bag of backcross seeds a few years later. I know the bag and keep trying to find them, popping a few beans when I have space and time.
The Elvish#1 was a low to moderate yielder, with extreme mandarin orange aromas and flavors. Its effects were up, but nothing as extreme as the flavor. She also had a peculiar type of resin that would not stop burning once ignited. I don't smoke, but friends would comment that joints would burn themselves and bowls needed to be very actively snuffed. I haven't seen this volatility before or since, although the Sunny D plant I currently run has very similar smells. I didn't make many crosses with her, and the few beans I tried didn't seem to lead anywhere. The clone was let go after 2 or 3 runs.
Elvish#2 had good yields and the most intense muscle melt pain-relief effects. You could feel the knots untie and the body bliss roll over you in a big wave. It also had a bright berry aroma and flavor with a head shop incense smell after vaping, only it smelled real, not fake. I did some crosses and tried to keep her for as long I could, which was ~2 years. So far, nothing of note has come from the crosses, but I have barely tried.
Elvish#3 had the lowest yield, mellow moderate effects and a peanut aroma and flavor. There are a couple crosses in the vault, but no work on them yet. She exited very quickly from the stage.
Elvish#4 was the clone I kept the longest and did the most work with, for good reason. She was the biggest yielder, had the best flavor and sported super up happy effects. The flavor was berries and hint of the polyester, part of what makes the true Elvis so awesome. I made the first cross with my Sk#1 family, then used a male from that to start the Chelvis line. I kept her for 4 years and made multiple crosses and backcrosses, some of my favorites to date too.
If you get a chance to try or grow the real Elvis, take it.
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Aromas def have an effect on our brain. This part of the brain is the hippocampus. Our sense of smell is constantly taking us somewhere. As we journey in and out of memories and along with them, it invokes a range of emotions that tie to our present situation in either clear or very subtle ways. There is no doubt that scent affects our mood. There's tons of info on this subject.
Ralph W. Llama
Active member
Absolutely, Hammer. Why do our brains and bodies have such strong connections to aromas and flavors? Is it based on our need to remember what foods are safe?
I think its more than just foods. In our clean society bodysmell is less noticed today but is a big influence when choosing a partner. Together with the not noticable pheromones it makes a major impact on who u find attractive all via the nose.
In the german language there are a lot sayings about smell. F.e. "can or can't smell somebody" when u like or hate another person.
How a person smells can give u clues about whats going on with that person. Depression and anxiety can cause a change in bodyodor.
Imo u can smell if a person is an alcoholic even if the person is sober because of the changes in metabolism.
In the german language there are a lot sayings about smell. F.e. "can or can't smell somebody" when u like or hate another person.
How a person smells can give u clues about whats going on with that person. Depression and anxiety can cause a change in bodyodor.
Imo u can smell if a person is an alcoholic even if the person is sober because of the changes in metabolism.
Sunshineinabag
Active member
I mean the first rotten snatch I smelt def gave me flaccid days ....lol
Sunshineinabag
Active member
I do have a fam mem.obsessed w scratching his nuts and sniffing his fingers ....like it helps calm.him down dude lmaop
Ralph W. Llama
Active member
Heavy drinkers can get ketoacidosis and their breath smells like acetone. Sweaty terps are out there too, maybe there's a connection.
Moving on again ... Check this paragraph about the possibility that certain environmental factors may be key to producing novel cannabinoids, terps, flavonoids, esters and other compounds. How do we efficiently and effectively bring local conditions and stressors into our systems to mimic optimal inputs? Lights should be programmable to spectrum changes for specific locations and nutrition can mostly be copied, but increasing altitude is a tough one.
"To date, flavonoid identification in C. sativa has focused on plants that are grown under nonstressed conditions. While flavonoids are present in most tissues studied in C. sativa, including seedlings, leaves, flowers, and fruits, they are undetectable in roots and seeds.[SUP]9−11[/SUP] In addition to the tissue-specific distribution, flavonoid profiles were also shown to vary in bracts during plant development.[SUP]11[/SUP] As many flavonoids possess protective functions for plants, their production is responsive to environmental factors, which is also observed in C. sativa. For example, cannflavin A accumulation is determined not only by the genetic background, but as a response to temperature, solar radiation, rainfall, and humidity in the environment.[SUP]12[/SUP] Moreover, higher elevation positively impacts the content of cannflavin A, B, and C in cloned (i.e., genetically identical) C. sativa plants grown at different altitudes.[SUP]13[/SUP] With these observations taken into consideration, it is tempting to postulate that, aside from the flavonoids that have already been isolated in C. sativa tissues, some yet unidentified flavonoids may only be produced under specific environmental conditions, such as biotic and abiotic stresses. It is also possible that certain flavonoids only accumulate in significant quantities in specific C. sativa chemovars, such as cannflavin C that was isolated and identified from a high THC chemovar.[SUP]6[/SUP] As such, unraveling the identity of additional flavonoids, particularly those unique to C. sativa, will facilitate a comprehensive understanding of the biosynthesis and functions of flavonoids in this important plant."
Here's the whole paper, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7931196/.
There's some wild stuff about cannaflavins' analgesic, neuro-protective and anti-cancer properties. Well worth a skim or two.
Moving on again ...
Check this paragraph about the possibility that certain environmental factors may be key to producing novel cannabinoids, terps, flavonoids, esters and other compounds. How do we efficiently and effectively bring local conditions and stressors into our systems to mimic optimal inputs? Lights should be programmable to spectrum changes for specific locations and nutrition can mostly be copied, but increasing altitude is a tough one."To date, flavonoid identification in C. sativa has focused on plants that are grown under nonstressed conditions. While flavonoids are present in most tissues studied in C. sativa, including seedlings, leaves, flowers, and fruits, they are undetectable in roots and seeds.[SUP]9−11[/SUP] In addition to the tissue-specific distribution, flavonoid profiles were also shown to vary in bracts during plant development.[SUP]11[/SUP] As many flavonoids possess protective functions for plants, their production is responsive to environmental factors, which is also observed in C. sativa. For example, cannflavin A accumulation is determined not only by the genetic background, but as a response to temperature, solar radiation, rainfall, and humidity in the environment.[SUP]12[/SUP] Moreover, higher elevation positively impacts the content of cannflavin A, B, and C in cloned (i.e., genetically identical) C. sativa plants grown at different altitudes.[SUP]13[/SUP] With these observations taken into consideration, it is tempting to postulate that, aside from the flavonoids that have already been isolated in C. sativa tissues, some yet unidentified flavonoids may only be produced under specific environmental conditions, such as biotic and abiotic stresses. It is also possible that certain flavonoids only accumulate in significant quantities in specific C. sativa chemovars, such as cannflavin C that was isolated and identified from a high THC chemovar.[SUP]6[/SUP] As such, unraveling the identity of additional flavonoids, particularly those unique to C. sativa, will facilitate a comprehensive understanding of the biosynthesis and functions of flavonoids in this important plant."
Here's the whole paper, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7931196/.
There's some wild stuff about cannaflavins' analgesic, neuro-protective and anti-cancer properties. Well worth a skim or two.
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A few ideas I've run across for pest simulation are chitosan, methyl jasmine, and methyl acetate. Pests and soil biotic involved with lignin decomposition are strong and fast acting. Chitosan has crushed up beetle in it to simulate. Methyl jasmine is a reactory per plant synthesized to commerce pest resistance. Selinene is known to dramatically increase secondary metabolites. Also real damage is frequently used on francincense creation by piercing boswellian tree and letting the sap produced in response dry. Since this is a lignin reaction it could be used as weed as well. Lighting is a whole other topic but some ideas are- 10k metal halide with low iron glass turned on midday to simulate high noon. Far red and deep red effect phytochrome production, they literally wake up and put to sleep. 740 nm light shining in canopy 90 min before lights out makes transition. To sleep 15 min instead of 2 hours. Less wasted resources . 660nm deep red when used with 740 nm creates a shade reaction simulation tricking plants into overdrive to escape fake shade.
