Are Organics people more snobby than other Potheads ?

[Centrum]

If a molecule is not in it's basic natural form, it cannot be used by a growing plant. Period. Doesn't matter if it if the N came from manure or CAN 17 made by Occidental Petroleum. The plant (and you either by eating or smoking the finished product) cannot tell the difference. Nor can your body. This "Organics is healthier" thing is just dumb to the extreme.

Couldn't agree more.
It has been shown over and over and over again and again, when given tests organic people couldn't tell the difference, when asked to choose which was better they chose the non organic in almost every test.

Organic people like Jason King who knock people in his cannabible books for not growing something organic and saying it could have been much better, yes total snobs.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Flushing is Flushing.

 

[guest 77721]

Wow this is the thread that will never die!!!

I'd like to point out that the use of indoor lighting is a significantly harder on the environment than the source of nutrients.

To light one 100 watt lightbulb for a year uses 714 pounds of coal in a coal fired generation plant.

A 600 W light running 12/12 uses 2,142 pounds of coal, thats over a TON of coal to produce a few lbs of weed a year.

The fraction of energy used in the production of nutrients is less evil than the energy wasted and pollution caused by indoor farming.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I like organics for the simple fact that it puts less shit in me...

Now think about the irony of that statement....

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

http://www.icmag.com/viewarticle.php?articleid=815
Gotta love people who expose the bullshit...

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Now think about the irony of that statement....

EPIC

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

If a molecule is not in it's basic natural form, it cannot be used by a growing plant. Period. Doesn't matter if it if the N came from manure or CAN 17 made by Occidental Petroleum. The plant (and you either by eating or smoking the finished product) cannot tell the difference. Nor can your body. This "Organics is healthier" thing is just dumb to the extreme.

Now that said, I do like tampering with the organic mantra of feeding the soil and not the plant. It just makes sense.

But the answer to the underlying question is YES. Some, if not most, Organic people's attitude is akin to a religion. Thinking neem oil is safer then a synthetic pesticide, just because it came from the neem tree is just stupid thinking.

But if it makes 'em feel better I don't really care as long as they don't try to sell me their bullshit. I've been farming too long not to know better.

What's bad about Neem?
Feed the soil vs Feed the plant is what really gets me excited about organics. The idea of nature doing the work for you is fucking awesome.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

What's bad about Neem?
Feed the soil vs Feed the plant is what really gets me excited about organics. The idea of nature doing the work for you is fucking awesome.

From the Material Safety Data Sheet for Neem oil:

SECTION 6
Effects of Over-Exposure: None Noted.
Acute Eye Contact ……………………………….. : May cause mild, reversible eye irritation
Chronic Eye Contact …………………………….. : Chronic exposure not likely from normal use.
Acute Skin Contact …………………………….. : May cause mild, reversible skin irritation. LD50 >2g/kg
Chronic Skin Contact …………………………….. : Repeated exposure may cause mild sensitization
Acute Ingestion …………………………………. : LD50 >5g /kg
Chronic Ingestion ……………………………….. : Chronic exposure not likely from normal use.
Carcinogencity …………………………………. : NTP: N/A IARC: N/A OSHA: N/A
Medical Conditions Aggravated by Exposure: None Noted.

SECTION 7
SIGN AND SYMPTOMS OF EXPOSURE
Inhalation : May be irritating to mucous membrane and excessive exposure may
result in drowsiness
Ingestion : May cause drowsiness
Skin Contact : May cause mild irritation
Eye Contact : May cause mild irritation
Chronic Exposure : Chronic exposure may cause various implications

SECTION 9
Spill or Leak Procedures
Environmental
Hazard:
Do not apply directly to water, or to areas where surface water is
present. This product is toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment.
Spillage : Absorb the liquid and scrub the area with detergent and water.
Avoid runoff into storm sewers and ditches that lead to waterways
Waste Disposal
Method:
Wastes resulting from the use of this product may be disposed of
onsite or at an approved waste disposal facility.

The idea of letting nature do the work is awesome...
The Idea of letting gen-hydro do the work is awesome too...
As long as the nutrients get broken down into a form usable by the plant, how they got there makes little difference to me and zero difference to the plants....

 

[SuperSizeMe]

Now think about the irony of that statement....

EPIC

LMAO!

Roger that Ghost-Rider....

 

[pedrodepaco]

will organic weed get you higher? It looks like non organic weed will make me a little more money. After you get it you can tell someone its organic they wont even know the difference.

 

[Miss Blunted]

From the Material Safety Data Sheet for Neem oil:




The idea of letting nature do the work is awesome...
The Idea of letting gen-hydro do the work is awesome too...
As long as the nutrients get broken down into a form usable by the plant, how they got there makes little difference to me and zero difference to the plants....

Yeah I grow some amazing weed....it's not the coco and perlite feeding my plants...

 

[shawkmon]

i bet its amazingly harsh, but i do like 150s and i wouldnt complain

 

[karmasabitch]

Anyone that really knows the plant will tell you there's a BIG difference between organic and nuted. Of course the organic is better. The reasons in the flavor. Organic smooth and full, nuted different to me. I can tell right away. After fifty years of puffin and through exp. I can tell. Coke or Pepsi? I can tell.

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

Yeah, I don't know, I would think it's reasonable that sometimes, you can taste the difference, and sometimes you can't. Some people will convince themselves whatever they want to think, while others will genuinly decipher the difference. It all depends on so many variables, it makes it so hard to tell based on hearsay!!

Synthetic fert use grits my grittables horticulturally.
Just a random thought - 2 things, if you're ready for an elementary level ramble with a point in there somewhere.

1)With synthetics it's easier to overload your soil or plants with nutes. That's a given.
Organics, not so much.

2)With synthetics you neglect many factors which this plant has evolved. Many of these factors obv. contribute to the health and integrity of your bud

Now, regarding to those 2 points:
Say we overload nutes with our synthetic plant. Big deal, right, just flush it and let the plant go without for a while? Ok, maybe you're on the same level as your organic plant, now, which has less nutes loaded up in it. But still, once those excessive nutes go into the plant, they don't necessarily get flushed or expelled too fast. Equilibriums must have been disturbed. Entire chemical cascades within the plant happened that probably wouldn't have otherwise happenend. What if you load up on N with your synthetics, and your plant uses it to veg out more in your budding stage, it's not like you can flush that extra N out, so you're screwed because synthetics made it too easy to overload with nutes. Similarly with P or K or anything, in any stage. In all reality though, not many care if they leech out extra ferts or waste them, and it's not hard to use the correct amount of fert, for the most part.

Now the other point. MJ has evolved to handle ridiculous, complex pathways of biochemistry that all rely on on things which organics can provide that synthetics cannot. So when you go synthetic, you're depriving your plant of beneficial byproducts & essentials of soil ecology that really get your plant in full gear, utilizing everything nature built it for. I just wonder - when we use synthetics, how many of these natural pathways get altered or neglected due to a lack of emphasis on soil health, which is a huge part of growing plants. Maybe these effects are too hard to tell just from smoking a bowl, maybe not, but I always wonder. What about the effects of suddenly shocking a plant with an available form of nutes, what does that do to the biochem or physiology of the plant compared to organics

Those are the two big things I see with synthetic vs organic. It's hard to define the line for artificially enhancing your bud vs negative effects from artificial enhancement. I like to let nature do it because nature does it best, but at the same time, we can tweak things here and there. You can only tweak so much before you start breaking though. The idea of giving synthetic nutes to plants is just so wrong to me, horticulturally speaking. I can't bear the thought of it for some reason, even when discounting all the political and environmental concerns. It just seems so wrong, like I'm cheating on mother nature! The drawback is that it requires a little more effort, which is doable on a small scale when cost is less of an issue...so it's easier to do as an individual, a lot harder on a business...a big problem..eesh

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Anyone that really knows the plant will tell you there's a BIG difference between organic and nuted. Of course the organic is better. The reasons in the flavor. Organic smooth and full, nuted different to me. I can tell right away. After fifty years of puffin and through exp. I can tell. Coke or Pepsi? I can tell.

bullshit.
The episode, that is...
"organics taste better" myth busted...
http://www.icmag.com/viewarticle.php?articleid=815

I've grown gen-hy weed and had organic snobs think it was grown organic... If the grower is doing a proper job, you cannot tell...

coke = coca
Pepsi = pepsin

different ingredients, different flavors...

Organic grown plants and Mineral grown plants are eating the exact same ingredients. The flavor difference you've experienced is poor technique not bad food.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Yeah, I don't know, I would think it's reasonable that sometimes, you can taste the difference, and sometimes you can't. Some people will convince themselves whatever they want to think, while others will genuinly decipher the difference. It all depends on so many variables, it makes it so hard to tell based on hearsay!!

well said. Scientifically conducted blind taste test seem to show that organic veggies and fruits do not taste better. other test demonstrate that peoples perception of a food can affect its flavor. the taste argument would only be valid if organics tasted better every time

Synthetic fert use grits my grittables horticulturally.
Just a random thought - 2 things, if you're ready for an elementary level ramble with a point in there somewhere.

1)With synthetics it's easier to overload your soil or plants with nutes. That's a given.
Organics, not so much.

Yup... this is the only real difference.

2)With synthetics you neglect many factors which this plant has evolved. Many of these factors obv. contribute to the health and integrity of your bud

please provide some sort of proof of this assertion. Plant nutrition is a fairly simple science, plants are only composed of so many elements and can only absorb elements in their ionic state. How those elements get to said ionic state (rotting slowly in fulvic and humic acids, eaten by earthworms and shat out infused with bacteria which break nutrients down into ions, decomposed by fungi, or purified in a factory) doesn't matter at all to the plants.

Now, regarding to those 2 points:
Say we overload nutes with our synthetic plant. Big deal, right, just flush it and let the plant go without for a while? Ok, maybe you're on the same level as your organic plant, now, which has less nutes loaded up in it. But still, once those excessive nutes go into the plant, they don't necessarily get flushed or expelled too fast. Equilibriums must have been disturbed. Entire chemical cascades within the plant happened that probably wouldn't have otherwise happenend. What if you load up on N with your synthetics, and your plant uses it to veg out more in your budding stage, it's not like you can flush that extra N out, so you're screwed because synthetics made it too easy to overload with nutes. Similarly with P or K or anything, in any stage. In all reality though, not many care if they leech out extra ferts or waste them, and it's not hard to use the correct amount of fert, for the most part.

It is easy to determine a nute mix which does not overload anything... The head goes coco thread and the understanding inorganic salts thread in my sig line are good resources to sort out a simple non-invasive nute regimen...

Now the other point. MJ has evolved to handle ridiculous, complex pathways of biochemistry that all rely on on things which organics can provide that synthetics cannot. So when you go synthetic, you're depriving your plant of beneficial byproducts & essentials of soil ecology that really get your plant in full gear, utilizing everything nature built it for.

not really, If so then organics would so obviously outweigh mineral derived nutrients that there would be no hydro market.

I just wonder - when we use synthetics, how many of these natural pathways get altered or neglected due to a lack of emphasis on soil health, which is a huge part of growing plants.

root health is the important thing. "soil health" is irrelevant, except when the plant is dependent on the soil's microherd to turn the organic shit into usable nutrient. In a hydro grow that whole process has already been taken care of.

Maybe these effects are too hard to tell just from smoking a bowl, maybe not, but I always wonder.

You can only tell the difference when the grower does a poor job... I grew organic for over a decade, I've grown hydro for almost a decade... It's been well settled in my mind for a long time... between the science I know and the grows I've experienced, I'm all set using purified mineral nutrients instead of batshit and frapped fishes...

Bottom line as far as I am concerned... GROW WHAT YOU LIKE TO SMOKE and don't tell anyone whether or not it is organic...

 

[psycho pirate]

the best thing about organics is getting rid of the pH pen... the benes do all the work for you

 

[SELFHEMPLOYED]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSizeMe
I like organics for the simple fact that it puts less shit in me...

Now think about the irony of that statement....

Classic.

 

[Miss Blunted]

i bet its amazingly harsh, but i do like 150s and i wouldnt complain

Everyone's doin' the 150 these days!

 

[JQP]

I grow organic because I only grow for myself and relatives and friends. I don't need to sell it and never have. It's just not a big deal with me, and I don't need to say it's organic for marketing purposes. I'm not the snobby type anyways. My motto is do what turns you on, whatever!

JQ