Are big facilities going to put basement grower at unemployment?

[skull and roses]

Are you serious?, you obviously do not see the big picture, you must live in cali?, where everyone thinks cali is somehow a leader in canabis production in the US, your (cali) is going to supply the whole USA from cali LMAO, big companies?, again LMAO at you, get a clue who ever you are?, seriously.

Keep it hash
Max

If it was national legal California would most likely supply the vast majority for sure. You could produce the best quality for the cheapest price because of the climate. Cali also has the marketing notoriety all the folks who currently smoke mexi in this country would be buying up cheap Cali greenhouse weed with clever marketing for sure.

 

[Weird]

i love how the prospect of innocent people being jailed makes it acceptable to sacrifice the livelihoods of those who grow it

see in my mind if every pot smoker and grower is facing imprisonment unjustly then so are the basement growers who charge money

why is your injustice holier than theirs, so much so that they should sacrifice more for legalization than you?

hasn't the ongoing risk of incarceration so people can smoke weed sacrifice enough regardless of said profit or reward?

how about making the people who knowingly mislead the public about the properties of marijuana so they could profiteer on prohibition on the first place pay the cost of sacrifice?

why put the profit from this plant everyone sacrificed for into the hands of big business so it can be a stock market commodity that the police prison and other unions invest their pension into and profit from

why empower those that fucked us at the expense of those who been doing the same fucking things as you

i think i can guess why

people are frustrated and they dont give a fuck who pays as long as it aint them and claiming its in the name of justice for others

same shit different day

 

[Weird]

this thread is like the acid test

can you pass?

 

[Aeroguerilla]

Nah screw the sub, I'm thinking about USA indoor homegrown coco plants!!! Think about how easy it would be to just grow leaf. Then you'd have pure cocaine. The whole evolution of marijuana being homegrown could start over with cocaine!! Then in 30 years it will be medical, 45 years legal. You're talking big profits for the foreseeable future!! Think about it. Lol! Although it might be worth looking into

then we can make cocaine extracts and talk about the best methods to making them on the International Cocaine forum hahah... all in due time

 

[Weird]

imho the smart thing to do would to be to legalize the plant in its various forms under relative rules and guidelines

medical

fiber

fuel

food

certain markets are best served by big business such as for fuel production while the medical model would benefit from a more intimate caregiver patient model

the plant is dynamic enough to offer opportunity to all people at all levels of all industry

but this wont happen if legislation is created by corporate lobbies and not the people themselves

 

[LAMBS-BREAD]

Are you serious?, you obviously do not see the big picture, you must live in cali?, where everyone thinks cali is somehow a leader in canabis production in the US, your (cali) is going to supply the whole USA from cali LMAO, big companies?, again LMAO at you, get a clue who ever you are?, seriously.

Keep it hash
Max

make a point dude

 

[skull and roses]

then we can make cocaine extracts and talk about the best methods to making them on the International Cocaine forum hahah... all in due time

Haha!!! Then there will be the seed game with real breeders and pollen chuckers. Oh and hyped clone only coke strains. I can see it now the gsc coke clone, when u snort it, the taste of Girl Scout cookies!! The first smuggled cut of coco og blow! I could go on and on...

 

[skull and roses]

imho the smart thing to do would to be to legalize the plant in its various forms under relative rules and guidelines

medical

fiber

fuel

food

certain markets are best served by big business such as for fuel production while the medical model would benefit from a more intimate caregiver patient model

the plant is dynamic enough to offer opportunity to all people at all levels of all industry

but this wont happen if legislation is created by corporate lobbies and not the people themselves

Obviously we all have different opinions but you're making a lot of sense to me bro. I just can't see why we should blindly hand our industry over to big business in the name of legalization Like u suggest let's set up aframework to retain the industry into the hands of the people who built it and the people that care about the plant. Folks are acting like cash croppers are evil. Yes there are some pricks but I know people who make huge money but do a shit load of work for the cause and the plant n

 

[sprinkl]

Lol they will never grow good weed consistently. It takes a stoner that loves weed to do that. Not economical reasons.

They may flood the market with their crap and nonstoners will think it is good weed. But the real stoners will keep growing their own stuff in their basement, the real quality grown with love and care for the plant, not for the dollar.

 

[komboloi]

I wouldn't underestimate the abilities of ag science experts to dial into what the market wants: powerful, well-seasoned tasty bud.

It would take ag scientists at most a couple years to engineer (through hybridization and gene-splicing) knock-you-down weed. That leads to a new strain, which through the magic of legalization, would be eligible for a PVP (plant variety protection -- the plant equivalent of a patent). And the owner or licensee of that PVP would have a monopoly on that variety. It wouldn't take them long to figure out how to cure, through scientific methods and measurements, to a high quality. Think about the cigar industry -- masters at curing methods for fine tobacco.

But here's the thing about their PVP: No one can claim ownership of a strain that was already out there, unless he or she can prove he or she originated it. That means that all current strains would be "heirlooms" that anyone could grow and propagate. And the big boys won't touch that, because there isn't big money if you don't have exclusive rights.

But even with the PVP-protected varieties developed by the big boys, seeds and clones will leak out. Monsanto and the like already have that problem with current agricultural crops. The growers who buy the seed secretly harvest F2 seeds.

So in case of full legalization, my prediction is this:

1. Some big boy ag companies would develop mass-marketed killer weed, excellently cured, and marketed for a connoisseur customer base. Think cognac, fine cigars, fine wines, and premium spirits.

2. The same big boy ag companies would develop lesser mass-marketed weed at a lower price point. Equivalent to NoCal outdoor, say. Think Budweiser.

3. Millions of smaller amateur growers will continue to grow and develop heirlooms and their own crosses. Some for personal use; some for sale like at a farmer's market. There will always be a market for fresh local produce, especially organic, despite the big corporate farms. Think home-brewing.

4. In between Monsanto and those small amateur growers will arise intermediate grower-breeders, who scale up the amateur thing to make a living on high-ish volume grows, carefully sourced, grown, harvested, cured, and marketed. Think local small breweries or boutique wineries.

Of course, I could be completely wrong.

 

[Avinash.miles]

im tempted to agree w komboloi here.....

 

[komboloi]

Oh, and there will be an initial demand for experienced breeders and growers. So polish up your resumes. Of course, after about 5 years, most of the new blood will be coming out of ag science departments at major universities, and your lack of an ag sciences degree will make you a dying breed. Liquor companies don't pay old school moonshiners for their "insights" anymore.

Arjan will be the face of Monsanto.

 

[komboloi]

Sorry for the ongoing rant, but you know how haze in the morning does ya...

I'm imagining Arjan, Neville, and Shanti suing each other over the PVP rights to "White/Black Widow." Others over Blueberry, Northern Lights, etc.

Current commercial growers would be well-served to start thinking entrepreneurially if they want to survive a post-legalization world. An education in business generally, and marketing specifically, would be a good idea. In a free market, you have to have skills and a well-thought out business strategy to penetrate or retain your chosen market. Those who don't or can't will be swamped by those who do and can. You could make the best jam in the world in your kitchen, but you need business acumen and a strategy to monetize that sufficiently to make a living.

OK, I'm done now. Thanks for listening.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I wouldn't underestimate the abilities of ag science experts to dial into what the market wants: powerful, well-seasoned tasty bud.

The market also wants non GMO cannabis as well...

It would take ag scientists at most a couple years to engineer (through hybridization and gene-splicing) knock-you-down weed. That leads to a new strain, which through the magic of legalization, would be eligible for a PVP (plant variety protection -- the plant equivalent of a patent). And the owner or licensee of that PVP would have a monopoly on that variety. It wouldn't take them long to figure out how to cure, through scientific methods and measurements, to a high quality. Think about the cigar industry -- masters at curing methods for fine tobacco.

I don't think that PVP is in any way making consumers or smaller producers more comfortable...
It's just a way that big corporations can sue the little guy for growing their strains without paying the piper.

It doesn't take a new company to figure out curing.
We've got it down pat already without using benzene or ammonia.

But here's the thing about their PVP: No one can claim ownership of a strain that was already out there, unless he or she can prove he or she originated it. That means that all current strains would be "heirlooms" that anyone could grow and propagate. And the big boys won't touch that, because there isn't big money if you don't have exclusive rights.

Gene markers inserted into existing strains could quite legally sequester them into Monsanto's property just as they have done to Canadian canola.

But even with the PVP-protected varieties developed by the big boys, seeds and clones will leak out. Monsanto and the like already have that problem with current agricultural crops. The growers who buy the seed secretly harvest F2 seeds.

Monsanto worked very hard to make their corn sterile for obvious reasons.

So in case of full legalization, my prediction is this:

1. Some big boy ag companies would develop mass-marketed killer weed, excellently cured, and marketed for a connoisseur customer base. Think cognac, fine cigars, fine wines, and premium spirits.

I don't think so but I could be wrong.
Where's the motivation if they just give us big buds we'll be happy right?
Why haven't they done that with corn or soybeans? All the people I know that garden don't grow what farmers farm when it comes to corn or soy.
Because those strains don't suit what the consumer prefers obviously...

2. The same big boy ag companies would develop lesser mass-marketed weed at a lower price point. Equivalent to NoCal outdoor, say. Think Budweiser.

Agreed

3. Millions of smaller amateur growers will continue to grow and develop heirlooms and their own crosses. Some for personal use; some for sale like at a farmer's market. There will always be a market for fresh local produce, especially organic, despite the big corporate farms. Think home-brewing.

I'm speculating that it will be just like homebrewing...

Especially because you can't sell your homebrew at the farmer's market.

4. In between Monsanto and those small amateur growers will arise intermediate grower-breeders, who scale up the amateur thing to make a living on high-ish volume grows, carefully sourced, grown, harvested, cured, and marketed. Think local small breweries or boutique wineries.

So there are going to be licenses handed to whoever wants one?

I can't see things your way but you probably can't see them mine.

Of course, I could be completely wrong.

And the same could be said for me.

 

[HempKat]

Alright... So....

We go ahead and get it legalized ANY way we can, the pot sucks, people are never released for former offenses, Monsanto gets richer, the gene pool shrinks to straight shit,
everybody gets tested for drugged driving to fuel the machine, AND we still get nabbed for doing what we've always done...

I can see this reality and choose to not call that a victory.

But hey whatever gets you through the night, right?


Why is it that nobody thinks taking the time to write a real bill that covers points people care about is a waste of time?

Why rush into something? After decades of lost soldiers and weary veterans we owe it to more than ourselves to do it RIGHT.

Personally I'd like to see retroactive pardons... yet some of the same people that would tell me how we should just sign any bill with the legal stamp on it also tell me what is and what isn't possible.

It's been thousands of years for cannaphiles... and the world may be looking to us for an example of what freedom looks like.

I say we take the time to get it right before we send it to capitol hill. I know plenty of others don't so I'll gladly read how I want people in jail and how selfish I am and basically not reading anything I mean... and I expect that.

Why do you think people already locked up won't be pardoned? I'm not sure if this is true and I'm not going to take the time to prove or disprove it because I got other things I need to do but I'm pretty sure that after Washington went legal I read about people arrested for possession being released. Now people arrested for distribution is a whole other matter. Unless when nationwide legalization happens they also make it legal for anyone to sell to anyone then I doubt you'll see people locked up for distribution being released.

This is how it boils down for me. I'd like it to be legal for recreational use but I expect there to still be laws to govern people using in public or while driving or while at work, just like there is with alcohol. I don't expect and nobody else should either for legalization to be carte blanche for people to do whatever they want with marijuana whenever and wherever they feel like it. What I do expect is that it allows me to enjoy use of it in my own home or on my property so pretty much however and whenever I want so long as my use does not present any realistic risk to anyone else's safety. I would also expect there to be some provision for at a minimum designated areas for people to enjoy it away from home. As far as producing it I should be able to produce a reasonable amount on my own land or in my own home so long as I do so in a safe manner and without stealing electricity or other resources I might need. I don't really expect there to be provisions for distribution by just anyone growing it but if there end up being such provisions I fully expect it to be regulated at a minimum the same way we regulate any other things that are grown for consumption. If one wants to make a business of growing fine, more power to you, but don't expect it to be anything like "it's legal now so you can do whatever you please".

The only thing I think we as a community should try to ensure in any legislation is that anyone locked up before that would not be charged under new laws should be pardoned for those charges.

 

[HempKat]

I don't see whats the point of we fighting to legalize it for Monsanto & CO, so that growers end up selling it illegally,cheaper in a flooded black market?

Really I don't see where's the victory here...

Legalization isn't about making jobs or money for growers it's about preventing people from being locked up for something they shouldn't be locked up for. If it's legalized they won't be able to say you can't grow this legal plant on your own property. If they could it would be illegal to grow tobacco or food because there are corporate farms that provide that. What they can and likely will do though is keep it illegal to distribute to others for profit unless you comply with regulations, just like they do now for tobacco, food and alcohol.

Also there is no guarentee Monsanto & Company will pick up the ball and run with it. When prohibition ended on alcohol the people that became the corporate giants of alcohol were mostly those who produced illegally but established a reputation for a quality product. So based on historical evidence it is far more likely the big producers of legal marijuana will be those growers who have made a name and reputation for themselves providing for the medical marijuana community

 

[mean mr.mustard]

If it's legalized they won't be able to say you can't grow this legal plant on your own property.

I have a nagging suspicion you've missed my points.

That's okay.

We all smoke

 

[huligun]

Before the prohibition of alcohol was lifted people made their own beer, wine and spirits. Fast forward 70 years and you have Bud Light on pallets 3 meters high in every grocery outlet. However, you can still get micro brews, fine wines and spirits. You can still make your own.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Right. The title of the thread is what I'm going to refer to here.

No homebrewer can legally sell his or her wares... and they certainly cannot distill ANY spirits.

This wasn't an accident in legislature.

 

[HempKat]

the thread title is

Are big facilities going to put basement grower at unemployment?

and the answer is it depends on legislation

There is a limit on what can be done with legislation because there is already legislation designed to protect consumers from irresponsible producers of consumables. This is what will put the average basement grower out of business because as it is now the average basement grower does not have to abide by any regulations and he or she is free to do or not do whatever they want with regards to what they produce. If it becomes legal and it is possible for anyone who wants to, to produce and sell it they can count on having to deal with all sorts of regulations and requirements to meet safety standards. Just like they do already with food products people grow. You're living in a fantasy world if you think it'll ever be possible to create legislation that makes it easier to grow to market then it is for food.

It's those regulations and requirements though that make it more likely a corporation will take over because the have the money and the resources to deal with all that whereas the average basement grower does not. Plus the cost is going to come down anyway regardless of corporate giants getting into the grow game or not. The biggest reason why marijuana costs what it does now is because of the threat of being sent to prison if you get caught growing and/or distributing. Once that threat is gone they'll have a hard time getting hundreds of dollars for an ounce. Nor is it likely corporate competitors will produce crap off the bat. There first objective will be to put competition out of business which they'll do by underselling with the same or better quality and then later on downgrade to crappier stuff at not so great a price once they have control, just like WalMart does.

Frankly though I'm not worried about all that, I grow for myself now and I should still be able to when it's legal with less threat of arrest (although there will still be the threat of thieves so not much will change with grow security). I know some like to make it out like marijuana is really hard to grow, but it isn't. Maybe to grow it perfect and get optimal yields is hard but anyone wishing to grow for themselves can produce a reasonable amount fairly easily. For those that can't grow or don't want to be bothered then they'll have to deal with the corporate option just like they already do with a great many things or go to the black market which will in all likelihood still be there for marijuana long after it's legal.