Are big facilities going to put basement grower at unemployment?

[mean mr.mustard]

I'm angry that tasteless nutrient lacking tomatoes fill the shelves for the masses, meanwhile what they could grow in their backyard would be twice as good for less than a percent of the price.

I need to take a hike again!

 

[bombadil.360]

I don't agree. Now if the value of outdoor were to drop to $8 a bushel (cost of feed corn) then yea. Even in a lagal market, i really don't see the cost dropping all that much. Only reason the powers that be would allow it to be legal is 'cause they can make more than they can now.

Indoor offers security. Just cause the laws change and we may no longer have to worry 'bout cops, we still gotta worry 'bout robbers.

in a legal scenario, indoor has no chance, that's just a fact.
indoor is costly: equipment and electricity.
indoor can only provide plants with a limited light spectrum.

none of this applies to outdoor.

you think an investor is going to put money on an indoor warehouse in Canada or a greenhouse in the blue mountains in Jamaica?

not only will it be cheaper to produce, but the quality will be higher under the sun.

 

[Canniwhatsis]

Out door isn't an option in some growing environments..... and offers some serious issues to contend with. AKA bugs, and weather.


Here's an example of mother nature getting in the way of an out door harvest!!!!

That plant needed at least 2 more weeks to get to full finished potency...... I harvested everything I could,... that plant was wrecked,... and is why most of my girls stay inside!

 

[mean mr.mustard]

There are fast flowering varieties available... Greenhouses are also a wonderful tool in cooler climates.

 

[michaelswines]

bombadil.360

I think it depends, with complete legalization, you are absolutely correct. If a farmer could grow hundreds of acres of cannabis, then the price would be so low, that the likely hood of thief would be low, and cost of security would be non-needed. Most likely mechanically harvested directly from the plants roots.

For quality control purposes there might be some properties with mega greenhouses that could block rain and prevent bud rot.

However, with current indoor technology, many talented growers are pulling 3+, I know that sounds crazy, but its being done, period. As indoor is able to increase higher yields with new innovative cultivating techniques, there might be a future for indoor growing after all (and this is coming from someone who thought that the cost would be prohibitive) for people who want absolutely the best.

 

[bombadil.360]

Out door isn't an option in some growing environments..... and offers some serious issues to contend with. AKA bugs, and weather.


Here's an example of mother nature getting in the way of an out door harvest!!!!
View Image

That plant needed at least 2 more weeks to get to full finished potency...... I harvested everything I could,... that plant was wrecked,... and is why most of my girls stay inside!

like I said, if and when legal, production will take place at proper latitudes, and imports will be the norm in places with non ideal climates.

you can import a container full of top grade a outdoor from Jamaica at far less cost than growing such container indoors in New York State for example.

 

[Canniwhatsis]

At latitude, even a GH won't give a long running sativa the light cycle it wants without artificial "Supplemental" lighting,... Oh, and temps would fall too low at night,... so gotta heat it..............


At what point does an "Outdoor" grow become an "Indoor" grow?



If fully legalized, the ONLY way that outdoor will ever exceed indoor is if the market is specifically geared towards a landrace that will produce in that climate!!!!!!!!

And lets face it,... no market on this entire planet is geared that way.


Outdoor is harder to control on mass scale than an indoor warehouse,... and the warehouse buds are crap!

This is where the basement growers have the advantage!!! I can flex my environment to flower out something that otherwise wouldn't be able to grow here.



Will outdoor be big? Hell yeah!!!!! once a year, with a select few strains that will have to harvest enough to stockpile for an entire year!


Indoor,.... I'll harvest every other month,... with strains that can't survive in this climate. What's needed? What tweeks to my room do I have to do?


No basement growers are NOT out of the game,.... just need to learn to play ball!

 

[bombadil.360]

michael, what I'm saying only applies in a legal scenario, lets say as legal as wine.

we don't see many vineyards in non ideal climates, nor see indoor growing of grapes either... indoor will be a hobby thing, but not a commercial thing. sure u can grow superb bud indoor; but would u pay as an end consumer the costs of high grade indoor as opposed the cheaper just as good or even better outdoor grown at 2000mts.a.s.l in Colombia?

 

[Canniwhatsis]

like I said, if and when legal, production will take place at proper latitudes, and imports will be the norm in places with non ideal climates.

you can import a container full of top grade a outdoor from Jamaica at far less cost than growing such container indoors in New York State for example.

Taxes?


Sure, you can currently import a container stuffed with Jamaican brick weed for less than it would cost to stuff the same container with indoor grown USA weed,.... but if fully legalized, your gonna have to pay taxes and other fees for importing it. And prove that it passes health and safety inspections, just like imported alcohol has to be homogenized......


Suddenly your costs go thru the roof!

 

[Canniwhatsis]

And I'll maintain that the quality of the product that the consumer receives will be higher if locally produced!!!

 

[bombadil.360]

not as much as you'd think. specially considering actual production costs. if your production costs are low, which they should be in a legal scenario, the added value import tax won't be a factor. and all health and quality control expenses applies to every product, imported and domestic.

 

[michaelswines]

bombadil.360

I think you have just summarized the entire thread with your post, your concept is commodity based, which would parallel brands like Budweiser (beer), Marlboro (cigarettes), and Gallo (wine). If people want the cheapest product available in terms of cost, which unfortunately most likely would parallel lower quality, then yes you are correct. However, the American population loves choice, and the culture likes to stand out, for instance, why own a Chevrolet when you can own a Cadillac? The answer of course is income, if one makes more money, most likely one would want to make higher-grade purchase. When now have left the commodity based cannabis industry and now have entered the specialty service cannabis industry ☺

 

[HempKat]

Well what if their is a THC level regulation? And what if some strain become completly ilegal? Can't U imagine? People going to jail for selling chemdawg4 buds while Monsanto making millions selling their 10% med.

What the mid-classes people will sell to help rounding up their angles? Meth? Coke?

In those days of world wide economical criss with employment rising to the top, it is a very dangerous situation here. This should not only be seen as "yeah its going to be badass to have the right to smoke in a park". Of course its fun, but what about the: not so funny part of it? We barely here about it

If there is a THC level regulation or particular strains that are illegal then how would that be any different from now where all strains are illegal regardless of THC levels?

I'm sorry but there is no situation where it's cool to keep wanting it to be illegal so people can sell at black market prices while others are being sent to prison, have their homes taken, their children put in foster care and the numberous other ways the WOD ruins the lives of people enjoying a god/nature given plant that our bodies are designed by god or nature to use. Yeah it'll suck for people that have become dependent on that source of money to enjoy life but they'll just have to find some other way or take the same risks they take now to sell those particular illegal strains or strains above some THC level limit they may never even be imposed.

If it goes legal though there likely will still be a market for growers selling their crops, just like their is still a market for moonshine. I've seen several here already express that they would never want to smoke corporate mass produced weed so there will always be those types of customers. This is all speculation though, back in the 70's there was a point where people thought it would be legal soon and rumor had it tobacco companies already had packaging designs in place yet here we are more then 30 years later and it's still not legal. There's no point in wasting to much time or energy on something that might not even happen or might happen in a way far different from what any of us are imagining. The bottomline though is we should all be wanting it legal so nobody has to rot in a prison cell for smoking weed or any of the other fucked up shit done to people because it's currently illegal.

 

[bombadil.360]

michael, not at all my friend, on the contrary, outdoor grown at a proper latitude will not only be cheaper in terms of production costs, but will also be of greater quality than any indoor.

indoor can't provide the sun's spectrum, indoor can't provide high quality glacier melt highly oxygenated water for irrigation, can't provide elevation, and the list goes on.

you can have a basement grower with superb skills and the best of lights, his product will not compare to an outdoor grow in Corinto, Colombia done by an equally superb grower.

plus, just because it's outdoor does not mean it has to be a massive grow where controlling quality is more difficult.

there can be outdoor micro farmers in blessed climates all over the world pumping out flowers no indoor could touch.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

some of colorado's rules for growing and selling marijuana LEGALLY under state law.....you can bet federal law will have similar restrictions should it go federally legal..

anyways, have fun trying to comply with all of this!

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2011/3/19/11247/7455

Other potential violations include: After-hours sales, violation of the 70%/30% rule, purchase from unlicensed sources, unlawful consumption or medication on the premises, failure to maintain adequate books and records, failure to report or register personnel changes, employing underage persons, hidden ownership or unlawful financial interest, failure to meet sanitary standards, and failure to display credentials.

The most severe violation seems to be Purchase of Marijuana from Unlicensed Sources. Even for a first offense, the rules states: "Go to Hearing. License should be revoked immediately as these violations are generally indicative of the presence of other criminal activity."

goes on an on....

Proper labeling is required:

No licensee shall sell, transfer or give away any medical marijuana that does not contain a label with a list of all ingredients, including all chemical additives, including but not limited to nonorganic pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers that were used in its cultivation and production.

For non-infused products, the labels must also contain:

the license number of the OPC licensee, the MMC if medical marijuana was obtained from a center not licensed the same as the OPC facility, or if being sold by a different licensed MMC,
that Center’s license number;
the date of sale; and
the patient registry number of the purchaser



requires cameras all over the place...and who gets to see those cameras?
Specifications for Video Surveillance and Recording of Medical Marijuana Licensed Premises – Minimum Requirements." Here's where patient privacy issues arise:

All limited access areas, point of sale areas, security rooms/areas and all points of ingress/egress to limited access areas and all points of ingress/egress to the exterior of the licensed premises must have fixed camera coverage capable of identifying any activity occurring within a minimum of twenty (20) feet of all entry and exit points.
All medical marijuana licensed premises shall have camera placement which allows for the clear and certain identification of any individual in and/or on the licensed premises
All entrances and exits to the facility shall be recorded from both indoor and outdoor vantage points, and capable of clearly identifying the individual entering or exiting the facility.
All camera views of customer areas must be continuously recorded twenty-four (24) hours a day. The use of motion detection is authorized with a minimum of ten (10) second pre- and post- event recording.
A chronological point of sale transaction log must be made available to be used in conjunction with recorded video of those transactions.

Who gets to see the footage?

Data which is captured from licensee point of sale and video surveillance systems shall be held in confidence by all employees or representatives of the State Licensing Authority and the MMED, and shall only be disclosed upon an administrative or law enforcement request demonstrating that the information sought is relevant and material to a legitimate regulatory or law enforcement inquiry.



yes technically a basement grower can grow some chronic, and sell it straight from garden to a customer in a ziplock bag forever, nothing will change except his profit margins. my observations are only for those wondering what a LEGAL industry might entail..if you want to sell legally state or nationwide..

 

[Yes4Prop215]

with all that being said...i dont see federal legalization happening either. obama made it pretty clear that he has obligations to our ally nations that we cannot support legalization, how the hell is the US gonna tell our best allies to make it illegal than reverse our policy....it goes way up to the large powers like big pharma and the prison industrial complex who rely on prohibition to keep their multi billion dollar industries alive....

its gonna take a while because even though they passed state consumption legalization its taking a long time for them to figure out how to implement production properly...CO is a testing ground and there are some folks striking it rich out there but who knows when the feds will come pull their cards...oakland was supposed to open 4 largescale dispensaries and that still has never happened due to the feds flexing muscle...

like others have said only time will tell.....until that day keep those basements and backyards pumping and enjoy the gettin while its good!

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Alright... So....

We go ahead and get it legalized ANY way we can, the pot sucks, people are never released for former offenses, Monsanto gets richer, the gene pool shrinks to straight shit,
everybody gets tested for drugged driving to fuel the machine, AND we still get nabbed for doing what we've always done...

I can see this reality and choose to not call that a victory.

But hey whatever gets you through the night, right?


Why is it that nobody thinks taking the time to write a real bill that covers points people care about is a waste of time?

Why rush into something? After decades of lost soldiers and weary veterans we owe it to more than ourselves to do it RIGHT.

Personally I'd like to see retroactive pardons... yet some of the same people that would tell me how we should just sign any bill with the legal stamp on it also tell me what is and what isn't possible.

It's been thousands of years for cannaphiles... and the world may be looking to us for an example of what freedom looks like.

I say we take the time to get it right before we send it to capitol hill. I know plenty of others don't so I'll gladly read how I want people in jail and how selfish I am and basically not reading anything I mean... and I expect that.

 

[LAMBS-BREAD]

If it goes legal though there likely will still be a market for growers selling their crops

I don't see whats the point of we fighting to legalize it for Monsanto & CO, so that growers end up selling it illegally,cheaper in a flooded black market?

Really I don't see where's the victory here...

 

[huligun]

Alright... So....

We go ahead and get it legalized ANY way we can, the pot sucks, people are never released for former offenses, Monsanto gets richer, the gene pool shrinks to straight shit,
everybody gets tested for drugged driving to fuel the machine, AND we still get nabbed for doing what we've always done...

I can see this reality and choose to not call that a victory.

But hey whatever gets you through the night, right?


Why is it that nobody thinks taking the time to write a real bill that covers points people care about is a waste of time?

Why rush into something? After decades of lost soldiers and weary veterans we owe it to more than ourselves to do it RIGHT.

Personally I'd like to see retroactive pardons... yet some of the same people that would tell me how we should just sign any bill with the legal stamp on it also tell me what is and what isn't possible.

It's been thousands of years for cannaphiles... and the world may be looking to us for an example of what freedom looks like.

I say we take the time to get it right before we send it to capitol hill. I know plenty of others don't so I'll gladly read how I want people in jail and how selfish I am and basically not reading anything I mean... and I expect that.

There are two kinds of people, generally speaking... Optimist and Pessimist. You can live your life being happy with what you have or always be angry. I am not sure it is a personal choice, but I bet with proper training anyone can be an optimist.

As for writing a bill that makes everyone happy you have to be out of your mind. That is not possible.

It takes a lot of skill, cunning, trial and error to get any kind of bill to pass that will put more drunk drivers on the road. A lot of people do not want to see any more impaired drivers. There are so many idiots on the road already that the perception to a non-smoker is that it can only get worse.

The only way I ever felt that you would pass any recreational legislation in favor of weed would be if you could get financial gain towards the state and federal deficits. Money is the fuel that makes everything happen.

Myself, I prefer to be an optimist and when there is a new game play by the rules. To each his own, but why always swim up stream. No bill, no law, no person, no world is perfect, and once you accept that you can find enlightenment. For some smoking herbs is a way to deal with an imperfect world. You should try it.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Aren't you in a pseudo-legal state? I bet you are an optimist...



Yeah I'm not even a realist... I'm sure I have absolutely no foundation in logical reality...

Maybe I'm too enlightened. Perhaps I'll take your advice and smoke myself into apathy.

why always swim up stream..

Because I have a feeling that stream is going over a waterfall and would like to avoid that if possible.