Are big facilities going to put basement grower at unemployment?

[HempKat]

Federal or not who cares? Monsanto and Merk are already looking at the Colorado market. So what can stop them? The 99%?





U is a bad minded blinded fool. And u keep hiding behind ur foolish arguments. It's people who think like U that divided the MJ community. Growers are not responsible for people going to jail for ganja! Are U stupid? Growers risk jail them self. Get ur argument straight, U sound like a stupid troll.

And one thing is for sure, as a American, U don't have no lessons to give about profits on others sufferings. Remember, USA born on two great genocide.

Dude, you're nuts. Nobody ever said growers are responsible for people going to jail. What is being said is that many growers would like to see things stay illegal because that threat of jail earns them big bucks. If weed became legal prices will revert back to what it was in the $70's and you could get an ounce for $35 bucks some places maybe $50. Do you think it's going to be worth your while if prices go that low? Of course not, that's why you started this thread suggesting we should keep things as they are because people depend on the money they make from selling. It's that desire to keep making that money dag is talking about when he says you are profiting off the backs of other people's suffering. If it becomes legal the people won't suffer going to jail and there will be no threat of going to jail and so prices will fall like a rock, as they should. You need to start accepting the fact that once it becomes legal nationwide, you are going to need many acres of crops to be as lucrative as you are now. Regardless of whether Monsanto or Merck gets in the game or not.

 

[HempKat]

You know this poll like most polls likely has skewed results because of how the options were presented. If the question was the same but the options were:

1) It's legalized and I care not who is in the game

2) It's legalized but only Monsanto, Merck or other big corporations could grow and sell it.

3) I don't want it legalized

4) I don't care

Then I bet far fewer people would vote for option 2 and more would vote for option 1 because it being legal is what's most important for more people. The way it's asked now makes it sound like one can have it legal but Monsanto and other big corporations could be kept out which that's never going to happen in this country because the supreme court has decided corporations have the same rights as individuals. So if it's legal for individuals it's legal for corporations by default. You can't have it allowed for individuals but forbidden for corporations, it's unconstitutional.

I myself voted for option 2 in the original poll because I know how Monsanto is and would rather not have them involved because they do things I feel are unethical but if it was a choice of either I allow them to be in the game or it doesn't get legalized. I'd take legalized every day of the week and do my best to get the government to keep things fair.

 

[EastFortRock]

Here's a quote that is thousands of years old - "the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil". I think the drug war is perpetuated by the love of money.

 

[Canniwhatsis]

You know this poll like most polls likely has skewed results because of how the otions were presented. If the questions was the same but:

1) It's legalized and I care not who is in the game

2) It's legalized but only Monsanto, Merck or other big corporations could grow and sell it.

3) I don't want it legalized

4) I don't care

Then I bet far fewer people would vote for option 2 and more would vote for option 1 because it being legal is what's most important for more people. The way it's asked now makes it sound like one can have it legal but Monsanto and other big corporations could be kept out which that's never going to happen in this country because the supreme court has decided corporations have the same rights as individuals. So if it's legal for individuals it's legal for corporations by default. You can't have it allowed for individuals but forbidden for corporations, it's unconstitutional.

I myself voted for option 2 in the original poll because I know how Monsanto is and would rather not have them involved because they do things I feel are unethical but if it was a choice of either I allow them to be in the game or it doesn't get legalized. I'd take legalized every day of the week and do my best to get the government to keep things fair.

Heh,.... I voted for 1 in that poll....... Why?






















I've already proven in my local market that I can produce superior product to the warehouse buds around, and while a big corporation can possibly claim ownership of a genetic strain as they do corn,.... I've already got dozens of genomes they can't claim possession of!!!!!



No chance of suing the underground out of existence.

 

[Fred el Gato]

Thanks HempKat
Respect to you brother, for a calm and informative reply to my quip. We do agree and are alot alike in our thinking.
Grow on Fred

 

[Noggone]

To the people who think that when big business comes in and takes over, you will still be able to compete because you have "boutique' strains, and big business will be growing shwag ; don't kid yourself.
Anything "elite"that you grow they will be growing too; on amuch larger scale and will be selling it for much cheaper than you.
So someone has an elite Og Kush or something; it will be nothing for them to pay 10k for that cut, and who wouldn't sell at that price? They will be able to get their hands on any elite strain they want.
So you think you are a better grower than they are? With their money they will be able to hire a Chimera or a DJ Short as a consultant and breeder.
Like all big companies, they will have a Research and Development section, where they are growing hundreds of plants just to find a super elite strain.
Your only chance of retaining customers is probably goodwill; you have been selling to those people for years and they like you so they buy off you.
But obvously with legalization it will never be full legalization, in that if you are not one of the big businesses with a licence then if you grow commercially you will still go to jail.
And they will only issue a limited number of licences, not a license to anyone who wants to grow. And then after a while the biggest companies will buy the licences of the smaller companies to it ends up that there are two or three companies with licences to grow pot.
And once they have a monopoly they will increase prices.
And then they will want the black market growers shut down to further increase their exclusive monopoly and profits, and so with their money they will be making big political donations and lobbying for increased penalties for anyone who grows their own.
And then you are all worse off than when you started.

 

[dagnabit]

well that shakes it then!
our resident dog fooler,sack buyer and master gurellia grower has whipped out his prestidigitator and brought the word to us....
i figured you would be happy?
after all monsanto wont be shorting your quarter sacks!

 

[bombadil.360]

To the people who think that when big business comes in and takes over, you will still be able to compete because you have "boutique' strains, and big business will be growing shwag ; don't kid yourself.
Anything "elite"that you grow they will be growing too; on amuch larger scale and will be selling it for much cheaper than you.
So someone has an elite Og Kush or something; it will be nothing for them to pay 10k for that cut, and who wouldn't sell at that price? They will be able to get their hands on any elite strain they want.
So you think you are a better grower than they are? With their money they will be able to hire a Chimera or a DJ Short as a consultant and breeder.
Like all big companies, they will have a Research and Development section, where they are growing hundreds of plants just to find a super elite strain.
Your only chance of retaining customers is probably goodwill; you have been selling to those people for years and they like you so they buy off you.
But obvously with legalization it will never be full legalization, in that if you are not one of the big businesses with a licence then if you grow commercially you will still go to jail.
And they will only issue a limited number of licences, not a license to anyone who wants to grow. And then after a while the biggest companies will buy the licences of the smaller companies to it ends up that there are two or three companies with licences to grow pot.
And once they have a monopoly they will increase prices.
And then they will want the black market growers shut down to further increase their exclusive monopoly and profits, and so with their money they will be making big political donations and lobbying for increased penalties for anyone who grows their own.
And then you are all worse off than when you started.

that's mainly the argument going on here...

so the question is: how is a legislation for the legalization of cannabis to be designed so as to keep such scenario from manifesting?

 

[Greyskull]

Are big facilities going to put basement grower at unemployment?

So someone has an elite Og Kush or something; it will be nothing for them to pay 10k for that cut, and who wouldn't sell at that price?

If you truly have something unique, a truely special specimen thats not in circulation, that could be your one opportunity to ride the wave, much less just 'stay afloat'.... You'd have to be an idiot to sell a copy of the clone for only 10g. IDIOT. Lots of them though...

Short term, for the 'its just a clone or two' train of thought that 'seems' like a killer deal.
Long term, you would have sold yourself out of a long term revenue stream worth exponentially more, even IN the short term, for peanuts.

My opinion on that hypothetical scenario....

 

[Noggone]

so the question is: how is a legislation for the legalization of cannabis to be designed so as to keep such scenario from manifesting?

I don't think the govt. will allow total legalization, that is anyone can grow as many plants as they want and sell it.
Because then the govt.couldn't control it and tax it.
They only want legalization if they can get money out of it through license fees and taxes.

 

[Holdin']

I'm suprised this thread has went the way it has...

My opinion has been, it's only two states.

The least I will share of my opinion is that there's no way that a major cigarette/tobacco company will parlay on this, being as how Cannabis is still a Schedule 1 drug on a federal level.

Washington and Colorado are in the middle/beginning stages of setting up all of the rules and regs. We have no idea what those rules are going to be. That's what's going to determine the outcome of all of this, on a short term scale at least, being as how only two states have legalized. Very curious to see what happens here.

A bright side no matter what: There surely will be a high level of competition to produce the highest of quality one way or another. That's a win for all of us no matter what your status on the MJ totum pole. Not to mention the obvious win for one common goal of ending prohibition.

 

[Noggone]

I think Washington and Colorado will be test cases as to how legalization works, and it's wider effects; I think the other states will sit back and see how things go in those two states before deciding whether to legalize, and if so how.

 

[HempKat]

To the people who think that when big business comes in and takes over, you will still be able to compete because you have "boutique' strains, and big business will be growing shwag ; don't kid yourself.
Anything "elite"that you grow they will be growing too; on amuch larger scale and will be selling it for much cheaper than you.
So someone has an elite Og Kush or something; it will be nothing for them to pay 10k for that cut, and who wouldn't sell at that price? They will be able to get their hands on any elite strain they want.
So you think you are a better grower than they are? With their money they will be able to hire a Chimera or a DJ Short as a consultant and breeder.
Like all big companies, they will have a Research and Development section, where they are growing hundreds of plants just to find a super elite strain.
Your only chance of retaining customers is probably goodwill; you have been selling to those people for years and they like you so they buy off you.
But obvously with legalization it will never be full legalization, in that if you are not one of the big businesses with a licence then if you grow commercially you will still go to jail.
And they will only issue a limited number of licences, not a license to anyone who wants to grow. And then after a while the biggest companies will buy the licences of the smaller companies to it ends up that there are two or three companies with licences to grow pot.
And once they have a monopoly they will increase prices.
And then they will want the black market growers shut down to further increase their exclusive monopoly and profits, and so with their money they will be making big political donations and lobbying for increased penalties for anyone who grows their own.
And then you are all worse off than when you started.

I agree with most of your vision with one exception, they'll never be able to get away with preventing everyone who wants to from growing. Distributing yes but growing your own no. If that were possible then everything else that big companies produce would be illegal for individuals to produce. Nobody would be allowed to grow their own food, grow their own tobacco, etc. They wouldn't even be able to stop you from distributing legally. So they'd have to do it like they do with most things now and make the regulations to bring it to market too difficult and expensive to meet for people to do things legally. I do agree though that people trying to move marijuana thru the black market would likely face worse penalties then they do now. So in that respect you could say we would be worse off but by the time it reached that point it really wouldn't make much sense to keep trying to sell weed thru the black market anyway. It would be like moonshine is today, there are people who still make it and people who will still buy it but the vast majority of drinkers don't even consider the black market option and are perfectly content with going to bars and liquor stores.

Still this is all really a good ways off yet, alot of us are talking like it might happen soon. IMHO the best thing that can happen now is for the growers in states that become legal do what they can to be shinning examples of how things will be. One thing that has hindered things in California is that some dispensaries have taken advantage of things to move product out of state where they can make even bigger money then they do in the dispensaries. Whoever becomes the dominent supplier of weed in places like Washington or Colorado need to keep an eye to the future and set the standards of how things should be done and they should be self policing so the government feels less of a need to step in and say how things will be done.

 

[Weird]

that's mainly the argument going on here...

so the question is: how is a legislation for the legalization of cannabis to be designed so as to keep such scenario from manifesting?

simple and marijuana exists in many forms and bills should address all of them

first there should be bills for psychoactive and non and how come no one is asking if weed is legal why isnt everyone growing hemp?

this is off the top my head im sure it can be refined there is plenty of meat on the bone for everyone

medical marijuana ( based on percentage of thc im thinking over 5% ) should be a patient / caregiver relationship with collectives to allow for the pooling and utilization of resources while growing for self should simply be legalwith simple permit or license

this model allows for caregiver accountability and low cost because the buy is direct

recreational marijuana (based on percentage of thc no greater than 5%) should be allowed to be mass produced under license and marketed including age restricted use and taxed like beer and cigarettes

non psychoactive marijuana or HEMP

biofuel should be open to all levels of industry and is renewable unlike hydro fracking and other non renewable energy techniques being used to meet energy demands taxed according to industry standards

food should be open to all levels of industry taxed according to industry standards

fiber should be open to all levels of industry taxed according to industry standards

paper should be open to all levels of industry taxed according to industry standard

oil for soaps and cleaners available to all industries taxed according to industry

 

[smittymac]

Can not comment on profit. "Grow to Smoke" Just me. Good weed is good weed. I grow it you grow it they grow it. My opinion. And I'll still grow mine.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

To the people who think that when big business comes in and takes over, you will still be able to compete because you have "boutique' strains, and big business will be growing shwag ; don't kid yourself.
Anything "elite"that you grow they will be growing too; on amuch larger scale and will be selling it for much cheaper than you.
So someone has an elite Og Kush or something; it will be nothing for them to pay 10k for that cut, and who wouldn't sell at that price? They will be able to get their hands on any elite strain they want.
So you think you are a better grower than they are? With their money they will be able to hire a Chimera or a DJ Short as a consultant and breeder.
Like all big companies, they will have a Research and Development section, where they are growing hundreds of plants just to find a super elite strain.
Your only chance of retaining customers is probably goodwill; you have been selling to those people for years and they like you so they buy off you.
But obvously with legalization it will never be full legalization, in that if you are not one of the big businesses with a licence then if you grow commercially you will still go to jail.
And they will only issue a limited number of licences, not a license to anyone who wants to grow. And then after a while the biggest companies will buy the licences of the smaller companies to it ends up that there are two or three companies with licences to grow pot.
And once they have a monopoly they will increase prices.
And then they will want the black market growers shut down to further increase their exclusive monopoly and profits, and so with their money they will be making big political donations and lobbying for increased penalties for anyone who grows their own.
And then you are all worse off than when you started.

pretty much hit the nail on the head.....this is not gonna be like growing cilantro or wine grapes, its going to be heavily regulated and monopolized because its a "sin" product industry worth 30+ billion dollars a year....

i just wonder what would the mega corps see their final bottom line at. i doubt they would start selling OZs for 35 bucks a pop, why turn a 30 billion dollar industry into one worth half that by cutting prices when production still costs the same?

im sure the mega corps are thinking about the best prices to maintain and will collude to make sure no ones trying to shortchange for cheaper..

 

[Darth Fader]

Free the Weed~!

Fuck your couch!!

 

[greenmatter]

to answer the OP's question ........ no

 

[skull and roses]

pretty much hit the nail on the head.....this is not gonna be like growing cilantro or wine grapes, its going to be heavily regulated and monopolized because its a "sin" product industry worth 30+ billion dollars a year....

i just wonder what would the mega corps see their final bottom line at. i doubt they would start selling OZs for 35 bucks a pop, why turn a 30 billion dollar industry into one worth half that by cutting prices when production still costs the same?

im sure the mega corps are thinking about the best prices to maintain and will collude to make sure no ones trying to shortchange for cheaper..

Ya I wonder what they think about price and what kind of data they have. They no where the price is so I'm sure they want to not let it drop too low. Maybe at first to kick a of us out! I'd be interstellar to see what is projected for new smokers. Everyone assumes smokers will go up. However in really laced European countries that make it a low priority and they claim less drug use across the board...they also have the same attitude for hard drugs.

I'm wondering how much of the allure of canabis is because its illegal. Most people start smoking in their younger years. Just something to ponder.

 

[skull and roses]

I'm not even gonna try to fix the autocorrect. Damn auto correct can be annoying.