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any kiss users have exp. with veg+bloom
- Thread starter barneyfife1
- Start date
I wonder whether adding more something (CaMg?) during the last few weeks would negate the extra N
Anybody?
Anybody?
you guys.... up the pH at the end of flower
N becomes less available at a higher ph, in coco i am doing 6.3-6.5pH for the last 2-3 weeks. at the begining of flower i am down around 5.8-6.
i run 3/3rd V+B for first 4 weeks - pH 5.8-6.0
then 2/3rd V+B & 1/3rd MOAB - week 5 - ph 6.3
then 1/3rd V+B and 2/3rd MOAB - week 6 - ph 6.5
then 3/3rd MOAB - week 7 -
week 8,9,10 tap water at 6.5 pH
N becomes less available at a higher ph, in coco i am doing 6.3-6.5pH for the last 2-3 weeks. at the begining of flower i am down around 5.8-6.
i run 3/3rd V+B for first 4 weeks - pH 5.8-6.0
then 2/3rd V+B & 1/3rd MOAB - week 5 - ph 6.3
then 1/3rd V+B and 2/3rd MOAB - week 6 - ph 6.5
then 3/3rd MOAB - week 7 -
week 8,9,10 tap water at 6.5 pH
I've heard upping the ph consistently throughout the veg and flower cycle is beneficial. I'm trying it out in my current run for the first time. My veg has had a ph of 5.5 - 5.8 and when I flip, I'll raise the average a little bit to 5.7 - 6.0.
From the 2LBs of V&B Dirty I experimented with, I decided that I will use this for my veg. I have opted against it for flowering due to the higher N (and I really like the offerings from MB Ferts for Bloom). Couldn't be happier with its performance from cutting throughout veg though. Definitely simple, PH solid (even the dirty), and cost effective.
From the 2LBs of V&B Dirty I experimented with, I decided that I will use this for my veg. I have opted against it for flowering due to the higher N (and I really like the offerings from MB Ferts for Bloom). Couldn't be happier with its performance from cutting throughout veg though. Definitely simple, PH solid (even the dirty), and cost effective.
Flowers often foxtail in high heat environment's (as well). I remember Dj Short had pictures of either Flo or Blueberry with foxtails. Honestly, I think they look kinda cool.
TR
TR
Exactly!
In the wild N is not reduced in flowering. The plant gets what it needs naturally right? Just a thought.
TR
Exactly!
In the wild N is not reduced in flowering. The plant gets what it needs naturally right? Just a thought.
TR
right, a nice clean creek or stream will have a slightly higher ph than 7, by the end of the season this can buffer the media to a higher ph than at the beginning.
Looks good, but 3 wks flush is a little long for me. How are the results? I up my pH near the end, but not that high. What measurement you using pf each? Tsp
From previous grows, I have cut V+B ppms back to ~ 450, now ~ 600. I might bump to 800 for one week as soon as bud sites are set (getting close)
I knew there was a reason why I increase pH during flower.
Pics are 2 systems-
1. 432w hot5 with High Performance rez has taller pheno
2. 210w led Simple bubbler with shorter phenos
bubbler
View attachment 250561 View attachment 250562
hot5
View attachment 250563 View attachment 250564
I knew there was a reason why I increase pH during flower.
Pics are 2 systems-
1. 432w hot5 with High Performance rez has taller pheno
2. 210w led Simple bubbler with shorter phenos
bubbler
View attachment 250561 View attachment 250562
hot5
View attachment 250563 View attachment 250564
I think you fellas have got the wrong end of the stick on this one. The theory of running a higher ph during flower revolves around the fact it makes phosphorus more available, and that phosphorus is an important building block in the flowering process. That idea has been around for quite some time. I don't think nitrogen uptake will be affected at all by a ph of around 6.5. It's available through quite a large range of Ph.
If you want to reduce your nitrogen levels, before flush, just lower your ec.
There's a very knowledgeable old head you might have heard of, called Oldtimer1. He's the fella who created the guide for bonsai mothers, which someone referenced and I think has been made a sticky on this site.
He told me if there's anything you want to reduce before you flush with plain water, it's phosphorus. It makes the smoke much harsher, a blacker burn, and, most importantly, more carcinogenic. His advice was to reduce the phosphorus by using a weak dose veg feed at the end of flowering.
A small dose of nitrogen and micro nutes actually help the plant metabolise the stored P, so if you've got a veg formula which is low in P, feeding that at a small amount when the calyxes have fully set, will make a good pre-flush final feed. Some companies have final flush products based around this philosophy - including plant magic, who Oldtimer worked with to formulate some nutrients - which work around the delivery of very small amounts of macro elements and some micros.
I go by this method and it works for me to achieve a bright red burn and a clean ash. I don't need any more than that in my final product. All I use is my starter feed of formulex at a very low dose. It contains almost zero P at the amount I feed.
But, whatever school of thought you go by, the bottom line in my experience is you're not going to use up the stores of nutrients by feeding at the same levels through the ripening period and raising the ph. Once your buds are fully formed and the calyxes are stacked, you should be on a reduced feed while you wait for the trichs to turn.
In fact, if you go by what Oldtimer suggests, you are actually making P more available by staying on bloom feed and raising the ph in the final stages.
Some food for thought.
If you want to reduce your nitrogen levels, before flush, just lower your ec.
There's a very knowledgeable old head you might have heard of, called Oldtimer1. He's the fella who created the guide for bonsai mothers, which someone referenced and I think has been made a sticky on this site.
He told me if there's anything you want to reduce before you flush with plain water, it's phosphorus. It makes the smoke much harsher, a blacker burn, and, most importantly, more carcinogenic. His advice was to reduce the phosphorus by using a weak dose veg feed at the end of flowering.
A small dose of nitrogen and micro nutes actually help the plant metabolise the stored P, so if you've got a veg formula which is low in P, feeding that at a small amount when the calyxes have fully set, will make a good pre-flush final feed. Some companies have final flush products based around this philosophy - including plant magic, who Oldtimer worked with to formulate some nutrients - which work around the delivery of very small amounts of macro elements and some micros.
I go by this method and it works for me to achieve a bright red burn and a clean ash. I don't need any more than that in my final product. All I use is my starter feed of formulex at a very low dose. It contains almost zero P at the amount I feed.
But, whatever school of thought you go by, the bottom line in my experience is you're not going to use up the stores of nutrients by feeding at the same levels through the ripening period and raising the ph. Once your buds are fully formed and the calyxes are stacked, you should be on a reduced feed while you wait for the trichs to turn.
In fact, if you go by what Oldtimer suggests, you are actually making P more available by staying on bloom feed and raising the ph in the final stages.
Some food for thought.
if i was using RO water my flush would probably be like 5 days- tap at 0.2EC and coco holds onto salts longer than anything else, atleast 15 days of flushing is required IME
IF I DID have RO water i would run MOAB until days before cut at really low ppm.
at the MAX i use 3/4 TEASPOON veg+bloom and MAX 3/4 TEASPOON MOAB
not a lot at all, my heaviest feeding indica doms never get more than 1.4EC
i have done nothing but put a tablespoon of v+b in a 5 gal bucket of water for the last 2 years and i have yet to meet anybody puffing on the same quality of smoke. case closed.
IF I DID have RO water i would run MOAB until days before cut at really low ppm.
at the MAX i use 3/4 TEASPOON veg+bloom and MAX 3/4 TEASPOON MOAB
not a lot at all, my heaviest feeding indica doms never get more than 1.4EC
i have done nothing but put a tablespoon of v+b in a 5 gal bucket of water for the last 2 years and i have yet to meet anybody puffing on the same quality of smoke. case closed.
That's a crucial point. Where you start from obviously will determine how long you've got to flush your medium before it's excess is gotten rid of, and how long the plant takes to pale and use up it's remaining nutes. If you're at the right range, you should see yellowing within days of reducing your feed.
Cannabis tolerates a lot of abuse. It doesn't benefit as a result of high EC values, it usually does well in spite of them. 1.2ec is about as high as I will ever go with most strains. It's all they need. I'm sure I could go higher and that they'd tolerate it with no more damage than some tip burn, but the knock on effects it has on proper flushing and timing your harvest is significant in my experience.
while we are on the topic....
V+B is for "fast flowering oil producing plants" right right, but now old timer just got mentioned, who didnt grow anything that could be considered fast flowering, but he used a two part no?
running 100 day landraces with V+B is much trickier, any tips? thinking soil might be the answer...
V+B is for "fast flowering oil producing plants" right right, but now old timer just got mentioned, who didnt grow anything that could be considered fast flowering, but he used a two part no?
running 100 day landraces with V+B is much trickier, any tips? thinking soil might be the answer...
right but some time that 'knock on effect' is a genentic requirement from the plant - see chemdawg needing more calmag than anything else in the stable. only line of genetics i have run into this.
and yes, i do take her ALL THE WAY up to the high EC of 1.4 - in week 3 of flowering
with veg+bloom no matter what you can feed them 1.0EC and its still a week before you notice plant stress, young-old-mothers-transplants, none of them 'yellow out' from a day of plain water(to me this says the solution is 'more complete' in proper feeding ratios)
and yes, i do take her ALL THE WAY up to the high EC of 1.4 - in week 3 of flowering
with veg+bloom no matter what you can feed them 1.0EC and its still a week before you notice plant stress, young-old-mothers-transplants, none of them 'yellow out' from a day of plain water(to me this says the solution is 'more complete' in proper feeding ratios)
He bred smellyberry, which is a 8 week var, and worked with the original blueberry quite a bit.
If you're feeding the right amount of nitrogen - the topic of conversation at the minute - then within days of removing it from your feed you should definitely notice yellowing.
but what is days? 5 days? cause in 5 days they start to yellow, in 2 days they look the same.
and am only famliar with Old Timers Haze, which i thought was all he was growing... the more you know. never really looked outside of icmag tho so. real hazes are not really suppose to take less than 12 weeks.
and am only famliar with Old Timers Haze, which i thought was all he was growing... the more you know. never really looked outside of icmag tho so. real hazes are not really suppose to take less than 12 weeks.
