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any kiss users have exp. with veg+bloom
- Thread starter barneyfife1
- Start date
ya this is the only nute I have gotten sediment from, besides maxibloom, but that was a lot less.
Seems like all nute companies only partially list ingredients.... which one lists everything?
this guys goal is pretty noble, how much companies strive for an all in one product?
Seems like all nute companies only partially list ingredients.... which one lists everything?
this guys goal is pretty noble, how much companies strive for an all in one product?
Y
YosemiteSam
So anyone with any alkalinity to speak of using this in a media with a cec is going to fight pH rising over the course of a grow...in my non common sense opinion.
I will assume that the corrections they make for individual water takes this into account and the adjustment is made. If that is the case I actually admire them for it. And probably the small drop in Ca or K when they do it would be more than offset by the pH control
big ups if that is the case.
I will assume that the corrections they make for individual water takes this into account and the adjustment is made. If that is the case I actually admire them for it. And probably the small drop in Ca or K when they do it would be more than offset by the pH control
big ups if that is the case.
Y
YosemiteSam
I would agree with that...the good seems to far out weigh the label thing. It just kinda struck one of those pet peeve nerves. I absolutely hate labels like this...but have no doubt other companies are far worse in both their labeling and business practices.
As far as I know Peter's includes everything on their labels including specifying exactly how acidic or basic that particular mix is. But then they market to people who actually know exactly what they want and wouldn't look twice at a fucked up label. (and yes, that was one last kick of a dead horse...i cannot make meself feel bad about it though)
everyone has their buttons that get pushed, labeling is yours huh..
I have a similar beef with resinator, thought it was a bee byproduct , original bottle had no info, bought 2 new ones and it lists an npk of 1-4-16 and mineral salts, not what I wanted
TheBioMaster
Member
Not familiar with that product cyat. Who makes it?
Yosemitesam- please dont get me wrong, I admire your enthusiasm, you just want to make sure you aim at the correct target, but MORE important than that is that you must have your facts straight, and as mentioned Veg+Bloom is a SOLID product that will only get better over time. The guy Chris that makes Veg+Bloom is a stand up guy, not a liar or a scam artist, and he is trying to make a better product, and he is doing a FANTASTIC job! This is not a big company right now and you should be SUPPORTING people like this instead of attacking them bro. There are lots of nutrient companies out there that put garbage out for products but veg+bloom is NOT one of them. If anything Veg+Bloom is setting higher standards and FORCING other companies to make better formulas to compete. This is a GOOD thing my friend!!
Advanced Nutrients are the biggest offenders that I know of as far as telling lies and ripping people off with there over priced garbage. They are one of the few companies that still uses UREA for a nitrogen source which is mammal piss and at the same time they claim they ONLY use the BEST source materials (UREA is even cheaper and WORSE than ammoniacal nitrogen as far as a nitrogen source goes). Now that my friend is a down right lie!! Advanced Nutrients uses the CHEAPEST materials in there formulas and then charges twice as much as other companies. You wanna be pissed about something, be pissed at that!! Plenty of lies being told in that camp I assure you!!
It should SERIOUSLY be unlawful to sell Voodoo Juice at the price they ask. WTF??? It AMAZES me how anyone could pay what they ask for bacteria???? Holy shit man!!!! And any store owner or worker that even sells/carries that shit to a customer, for sure does not give a SHIT about that customer. Not sure how they even do it with a straight face honestly!!!! UNREAL!!! And they also strong arms its retailers by forcing them to carry ALL they make or NOTHING!!! Hows that for good business practice?? They put cartoon labels on something that is suppose to be for medical medicine??? It is like 3 year olds run that company or something.......I could go on and on and on and on......
And if you want to hate on labels, fine but make sure and put your hate in the right place. The labels and what goes on them is NOT decided by the nutrient makers in most all cases/states. There are very strict guidelines and rules that must be followed and half of them do not make sense. It is the people making the label laws that is at blame here and your blaming the nutrient maker instead. Because of certain label laws in certain states, the nutrient company is restricted by what it can or can not put on the label you see.
This hurts the CONSUMER!! Meaning me and you! The consumer is at a disadvantage because he can not see everything that is in the product from the label. The more information a consumer can get from the product label, the more of a educated decision he/she can make in what to purchase or what they NEED.
So instead of bitching about Veg+Bloom not putting everything on the label, tune your anger toward the stupid fucks in the agricultural departments that make the label laws in the first place, which has NOTHING to do with the people that make the nutrients.
Yosemitesam- please dont get me wrong, I admire your enthusiasm, you just want to make sure you aim at the correct target, but MORE important than that is that you must have your facts straight, and as mentioned Veg+Bloom is a SOLID product that will only get better over time. The guy Chris that makes Veg+Bloom is a stand up guy, not a liar or a scam artist, and he is trying to make a better product, and he is doing a FANTASTIC job! This is not a big company right now and you should be SUPPORTING people like this instead of attacking them bro. There are lots of nutrient companies out there that put garbage out for products but veg+bloom is NOT one of them. If anything Veg+Bloom is setting higher standards and FORCING other companies to make better formulas to compete. This is a GOOD thing my friend!!
Advanced Nutrients are the biggest offenders that I know of as far as telling lies and ripping people off with there over priced garbage. They are one of the few companies that still uses UREA for a nitrogen source which is mammal piss and at the same time they claim they ONLY use the BEST source materials (UREA is even cheaper and WORSE than ammoniacal nitrogen as far as a nitrogen source goes). Now that my friend is a down right lie!! Advanced Nutrients uses the CHEAPEST materials in there formulas and then charges twice as much as other companies. You wanna be pissed about something, be pissed at that!! Plenty of lies being told in that camp I assure you!!
It should SERIOUSLY be unlawful to sell Voodoo Juice at the price they ask. WTF??? It AMAZES me how anyone could pay what they ask for bacteria???? Holy shit man!!!! And any store owner or worker that even sells/carries that shit to a customer, for sure does not give a SHIT about that customer. Not sure how they even do it with a straight face honestly!!!! UNREAL!!! And they also strong arms its retailers by forcing them to carry ALL they make or NOTHING!!! Hows that for good business practice?? They put cartoon labels on something that is suppose to be for medical medicine??? It is like 3 year olds run that company or something.......I could go on and on and on and on......
And if you want to hate on labels, fine but make sure and put your hate in the right place. The labels and what goes on them is NOT decided by the nutrient makers in most all cases/states. There are very strict guidelines and rules that must be followed and half of them do not make sense. It is the people making the label laws that is at blame here and your blaming the nutrient maker instead. Because of certain label laws in certain states, the nutrient company is restricted by what it can or can not put on the label you see.
This hurts the CONSUMER!! Meaning me and you! The consumer is at a disadvantage because he can not see everything that is in the product from the label. The more information a consumer can get from the product label, the more of a educated decision he/she can make in what to purchase or what they NEED.
So instead of bitching about Veg+Bloom not putting everything on the label, tune your anger toward the stupid fucks in the agricultural departments that make the label laws in the first place, which has NOTHING to do with the people that make the nutrients.
Y
YosemiteSam
Fair enough...but for the record the label laws do not stop Chris from doing the right thing and making the label match what he is actually doing.
But like I said...looks like a solid product. I admire the fact that he puts all you need in it without leaving shit out just to sell additives and if he adjusts ammoniacal N for your water that puts him right at the tippy top of store bought nutes imo.
If I bought nutes I would give this one a try for sure.
But like I said...looks like a solid product. I admire the fact that he puts all you need in it without leaving shit out just to sell additives and if he adjusts ammoniacal N for your water that puts him right at the tippy top of store bought nutes imo.
If I bought nutes I would give this one a try for sure.
netprophet
Member
nothing but total gratitude for the veg+bloom. this stuff has changed my game. I feel fortunate to have found it! I just took down my second harvy and will get some pics of the flowers up here in a minute. I can tell you the quality and quantity is there with the v+b. It's also strange to hear people getting white stuff in their rez, mine is crystal clear and smells good too! I know that a buddy of mine was recommended .75tsp per gallon and was itching for more growth so upped his dose to 1-1.5 tsp per gallon with a weekly flush and is now getting the same results I have. I'm guessing the quality of the water you have determines the strength you need to run it at.
Y
YosemiteSam
So I fucked around a bit...trying to maintain that 3/1 ratio of Ca to Mg, an NH4/NH4 + NO3 of 15% (which maintains pH with my 50-60 ppm alkalinity water) and 100 ppm total N...which I tend to run.
Grams per gallon of fert water I get:
CaNO3 2.3 grams
Ammonium Phosphate 0.22 grams
MKP 1 gram (mono potassium phosphate)
epsom 1.6 grams
+ some micros (I use o.1 STEM and 0.1 Fe dpta)
That gives me in elemental ppm 100-75-75-110-40...N-P-K-Ca-Mg. More P and less K than than this formula...but it will work great with coco. And you can always bump a little KSil to get the higher K without going to the sulfate well (pretty much guarantee no gypsum precipitating in the res). No aminos or sugars necessary...in fact additional aminos just fuck up how proteins are formed and invite insect infestation.
Way cheaper and I bet just as effective...at least in coco or peat where I ply my trade.
anyways...buy your ticket, take your ride.
Grams per gallon of fert water I get:
CaNO3 2.3 grams
Ammonium Phosphate 0.22 grams
MKP 1 gram (mono potassium phosphate)
epsom 1.6 grams
+ some micros (I use o.1 STEM and 0.1 Fe dpta)
That gives me in elemental ppm 100-75-75-110-40...N-P-K-Ca-Mg. More P and less K than than this formula...but it will work great with coco. And you can always bump a little KSil to get the higher K without going to the sulfate well (pretty much guarantee no gypsum precipitating in the res). No aminos or sugars necessary...in fact additional aminos just fuck up how proteins are formed and invite insect infestation.
Way cheaper and I bet just as effective...at least in coco or peat where I ply my trade.
anyways...buy your ticket, take your ride.
netprophet
Member
bought my ticket, took the ride, here I am... veg+bloom serves it bro, and I only dropped $100 on 6 lights and pulled 1.5+ per light of frosted out insanity. don't know how your formula compares Yosemite but if it produces bud like most growers I know it doesn't come close to this kind of quality. this shit is just dank dank dank, and I'm not even using tap or co2 or whatevs
Y
YosemiteSam
My guess is the same strain...Peyote Purple
more about genetics than a formula, but mine didn't get in the way too much.
edit...and neither did yours. no question it is ahead of most any store bought nute I have seen...and ain't saying mine is better. just sayin more than one way to skin a cat.
more about genetics than a formula, but mine didn't get in the way too much.
edit...and neither did yours. no question it is ahead of most any store bought nute I have seen...and ain't saying mine is better. just sayin more than one way to skin a cat.
squarepush3r
Member
the main reason companies don't list their ingredients is to prevent simple reverse engineering. "Proprietary secret" formula protects their IP and gives them a business model. That way people like Yosemite Sam could make a batch of their formula for a few bucks and wouldn't need to buy them. Also it allows to charge higher prices, and is fairly unique to the marijuana fertilizer market. If you notice any other nutrient market, this will not occur, such as major 10,000 acre farms who go through tons of fertilizer for commercial crops such as corn, soy, potatoes, etc.. So, its mostly a predatory technique used for marijuana growers and a form of deception, in my opinion.
However, if they did have sugars or carbohydrates in their product, it would be a bit concerning, for soil or coco or many mediums this would work fine, but if you are running DWC, RDWC or Aero, possibly NFT, you surely would not want to be feeding potential pathogens delicious sugars to maintain a clean reservoir and healthy roots.
This is one of the disadvantages of running an 'all-in-one' formula, not to mention their low nitrogen for vegetative growth periods with this approach (also a potential gypsum issue). That being said the above pictures do look stellar, I'm sure their product is fairly high quality that will give most people good results.
However, if they did have sugars or carbohydrates in their product, it would be a bit concerning, for soil or coco or many mediums this would work fine, but if you are running DWC, RDWC or Aero, possibly NFT, you surely would not want to be feeding potential pathogens delicious sugars to maintain a clean reservoir and healthy roots.
This is one of the disadvantages of running an 'all-in-one' formula, not to mention their low nitrogen for vegetative growth periods with this approach (also a potential gypsum issue). That being said the above pictures do look stellar, I'm sure their product is fairly high quality that will give most people good results.
Y
YosemiteSam
that is an excellent point about carbs/sugars. Do you really want a secret ingredient that causes problems for certain grows.
in the long run I cannot see anything but total honesty being a good customer relationship policy.
yea...people could reverse engineer. But two questions a) will they...I am not about to. I am two years or so down the road to doing my own thing (or not exactly my own thing, but mine plus the help of Avenger whose opinion I honestly trust) that suits my own situation...I am not about to go back to some generalized formula. I merely look at these things anymore and thing yea...that is a good general approach or nope...that sucks (bunches of additives) and I would never recommend it to anyone (I looked at this one saw the unique to the industry Ca/Mg ratio...in a good way and dug a little deeper). No single approach can be best for every situation...water differs, media differs, goals differ...imo single approaches are just compromises and don't make anyone totally happy. b) you are gonna have cases where what you are hiding fucks someone totally and then you end up with people hating you.
Honestly, I do get ask from time to time if someone does not want to mix their own what would I recommend...it ain't gonna be something with lies on the label and it ain't gonna be something with a bunch of additives. I am gonna look for something that has a chance to work with their water and is simple.
the people that make their own are gonna be inclined to do their own research and have their own opinion anyways. they are not looking to copy... they are looking to improve. Now yea...you will have scum like AN looking to copy and out market ( or out scam)...but they can probably (unfortunately) afford to analyze your your stuff and copy it anyway and then market that you don't have Cu or Zn in your formula...turning what you are hiding against you.
I would rather be honest and lose some business to those that my approach does not work for.
but that is just me. My opinion is no more valid than anyone else's.
in the long run I cannot see anything but total honesty being a good customer relationship policy.
yea...people could reverse engineer. But two questions a) will they...I am not about to. I am two years or so down the road to doing my own thing (or not exactly my own thing, but mine plus the help of Avenger whose opinion I honestly trust) that suits my own situation...I am not about to go back to some generalized formula. I merely look at these things anymore and thing yea...that is a good general approach or nope...that sucks (bunches of additives) and I would never recommend it to anyone (I looked at this one saw the unique to the industry Ca/Mg ratio...in a good way and dug a little deeper). No single approach can be best for every situation...water differs, media differs, goals differ...imo single approaches are just compromises and don't make anyone totally happy. b) you are gonna have cases where what you are hiding fucks someone totally and then you end up with people hating you.
Honestly, I do get ask from time to time if someone does not want to mix their own what would I recommend...it ain't gonna be something with lies on the label and it ain't gonna be something with a bunch of additives. I am gonna look for something that has a chance to work with their water and is simple.
the people that make their own are gonna be inclined to do their own research and have their own opinion anyways. they are not looking to copy... they are looking to improve. Now yea...you will have scum like AN looking to copy and out market ( or out scam)...but they can probably (unfortunately) afford to analyze your your stuff and copy it anyway and then market that you don't have Cu or Zn in your formula...turning what you are hiding against you.
I would rather be honest and lose some business to those that my approach does not work for.
but that is just me. My opinion is no more valid than anyone else's.
TheBioMaster
Member
Looking awesome netprophet! You can lead them to the water, but you cant make them drink I think the saying goes....ROFL!!
Nice work bro!!
netprophet
Member
thanks man! I haven't even thrown up picks of the best buds from my last take down.
cyat my rez is crystal clear from day 1 through rez change, no white glue, nada. That's one thing I like most about this stuff is it's super clean, it's ease of use , I just dump my system, rinse, and start over. You must be adding something to your mix. you should try the v+b by itself and keep it simple homie
cyat my rez is crystal clear from day 1 through rez change, no white glue, nada. That's one thing I like most about this stuff is it's super clean, it's ease of use , I just dump my system, rinse, and start over. You must be adding something to your mix. you should try the v+b by itself and keep it simple homie
Just got my RO hooked up & started using the veg & bloom . this stuff is damn near PH perfect & NO upswing so far (its only been 24 hrs ) . i mixed a 20 gallon rez of RO & 22 tsp of V& B & the ph came out perfect @5.8 
with a ppm of 745 . I'm liking this so far will see how the plants like it after a week or so . starting out feeding light & will move up as needed .
with a ppm of 745 . I'm liking this so far will see how the plants like it after a week or so . starting out feeding light & will move up as needed .
white sticky flaky muck... with no ADDITITIVES
sticks right to the bottom of the bucket never seen a saltier nutrient
Just got my RO hooked up & started using the veg & bloom . this stuff is damn near PH perfect & NO upswing so far (its only been 24 hrs ) . i mixed a 20 gallon rez of RO & 22 tsp of V& B & the ph came out perfect @5.8
when I fed 1 tsp plants were deficient bumped it to 4 tbls per 5 gal bucket, much better
