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Anti's MicroStealth Cab Design (Dr. Bud Method)
Updated Pics... Assembly Part III
Updated Pics... Assembly Part III
Awesome! I was looking around at the big box today but didn't find anything. I'll try a different big box tomorrow and see what I can find.
Progress pics...
Ok. these first two is basically just a support system for the dividing walls. Their hold was pretty tentative, so I added some pieces of scrap as extra supports. This firmed things up a lot. Before mounting the fans, I cut a double layer of thin, sticky foam material as a further air seal around the somewhat roughly cut holes from my amateur jigsawing. (I can use scissors.) The black stuff is the foam. It was $5 or so for like 8 feet of it and I found it wandering through the flooring aisle. No memory of what it was actually called or intended for.
Here's the front of it, halfway full of CDs:
I cut 5" x 6" pieces of scrap to use as spacers. If I decide to keep using them I'll paint them. They're not mounted, they're free floating in their space, and can be moved as needed. I'm using them because I'm trying to straighten out the slight warp of the shelves.
So I germed 4 ak47 seeds and a ton of bag seed.
I'm happy to report that all 4 ak have sprouted.
About 35 of the bagseed also sprouted. (All between 30-55 hrs)
Soaked coffee filters in bottled water. Rang out to damp. Placed seeds in coffee filters. folded filters up. Put filters in ziplock bags unsealed and then set the bags on the power supply for my stereo. (Stays warm to the touch.)
I took all four AK (of course) and the 23 nicest looking bag sprouts (ran out of soil mix and containers at this point):
Currently everything's sitting on makeshift 'found' trays on top of milk crates.
The plan is to go perp SOG but I don't see any reason to have empty cabs for weeks and weeks while i wait for the first harvest of only 5 plants. So while I'm waiting to see who's a girl and who's a likely mommy, I figure I'll just fill the whole thing up, let 'em get established and then clone everybody to determine sex. One cab will hold 25 of these things once I get more permanent trays that fit the space. (I'll build 'em and waterproof 'em if I have to.) There are only 27 seedlings and who knows if they'll all emerge.
Guess we'll see, eh?
Pots are 32oz square 3"x3" and 8" tall.
Medium is 66% pre-mix coir/sphagnum, 33% perlite w/a lil less than 1.5 tablespoons of Garden Lime per gallon of coir/sphagnum mix.
(I've read differing opinions on the need for lime in a coir setup, but having no experience, I just went with my gut and added it.)
Thoughts, as always, are appreciated.
Updated Pics... Assembly Part III
Awesome! I was looking around at the big box today but didn't find anything. I'll try a different big box tomorrow and see what I can find.
Progress pics...
Ok. these first two is basically just a support system for the dividing walls. Their hold was pretty tentative, so I added some pieces of scrap as extra supports. This firmed things up a lot. Before mounting the fans, I cut a double layer of thin, sticky foam material as a further air seal around the somewhat roughly cut holes from my amateur jigsawing. (I can use scissors.) The black stuff is the foam. It was $5 or so for like 8 feet of it and I found it wandering through the flooring aisle. No memory of what it was actually called or intended for.
Here's the front of it, halfway full of CDs:
I cut 5" x 6" pieces of scrap to use as spacers. If I decide to keep using them I'll paint them. They're not mounted, they're free floating in their space, and can be moved as needed. I'm using them because I'm trying to straighten out the slight warp of the shelves.
So I germed 4 ak47 seeds and a ton of bag seed.
I'm happy to report that all 4 ak have sprouted.
About 35 of the bagseed also sprouted. (All between 30-55 hrs)
Soaked coffee filters in bottled water. Rang out to damp. Placed seeds in coffee filters. folded filters up. Put filters in ziplock bags unsealed and then set the bags on the power supply for my stereo. (Stays warm to the touch.)
I took all four AK (of course) and the 23 nicest looking bag sprouts (ran out of soil mix and containers at this point):
Currently everything's sitting on makeshift 'found' trays on top of milk crates.
The plan is to go perp SOG but I don't see any reason to have empty cabs for weeks and weeks while i wait for the first harvest of only 5 plants. So while I'm waiting to see who's a girl and who's a likely mommy, I figure I'll just fill the whole thing up, let 'em get established and then clone everybody to determine sex. One cab will hold 25 of these things once I get more permanent trays that fit the space. (I'll build 'em and waterproof 'em if I have to.) There are only 27 seedlings and who knows if they'll all emerge.
Guess we'll see, eh?
Pots are 32oz square 3"x3" and 8" tall.
Medium is 66% pre-mix coir/sphagnum, 33% perlite w/a lil less than 1.5 tablespoons of Garden Lime per gallon of coir/sphagnum mix.
(I've read differing opinions on the need for lime in a coir setup, but having no experience, I just went with my gut and added it.)
Thoughts, as always, are appreciated.
Oh yeah. Quick question for ya'll.
As near as I can determine via the net, my "general purpose" bulbs are 2700k. Which means all my lights are 2700k. The only 5500k lights I can find are 23w (as opposed to these which are 42w). Do you think it'd be better to swap out some of my 42w 2700k's for some 23w 5500k's during veg? If so, would 2 of the 6 be enough? Or should I use 4 23w and keep 2 42w's? Or what?
This is my first time with CFL.
As near as I can determine via the net, my "general purpose" bulbs are 2700k. Which means all my lights are 2700k. The only 5500k lights I can find are 23w (as opposed to these which are 42w). Do you think it'd be better to swap out some of my 42w 2700k's for some 23w 5500k's during veg? If so, would 2 of the 6 be enough? Or should I use 4 23w and keep 2 42w's? Or what?
This is my first time with CFL.
Yeah I know. But I can't find 42w 5500k or 6500k at Target, Walmart, Home Depot or Lowe's. Target, Walmart and Lowe's all carry 42 watt GE "general usage" bulbs which the internet confirms are 2700k. Home Depot carries 42 watt 2700k bulbs by some company I've never heard of and can't remember the name of.
The largest bulb in a 5500k I can find at any of the above mentioned places is 23w. So my question was:
Would it be better to veg w/23w 5500k or 42w 2700k, or a mixture of the two? (and if so, what mix?). If I could find 42w 5500k, I'd have bought them.
Wally world in my part of the world only has 42w CFLs in the 2700k spectrum.
Awesome cab by the way.
Thanks.
Anti, you need to take a look here. Very helpfull ppl on the phone. They;ll mail you a catalog to. You will LOVE these as they will do JUST what youre doing now, but reusable.
http://www.stuewe.com/products/minitreepots.html
http://www.stuewe.com/products/minitreepots.html
I do really like those. I liked them the first time you sent them to me.
But I'm operating currently on theory... and I don't know if that theory is going to work in practice yet. If these 32 oz containers give me the results I want, I'll be happy. And then I'll probably buy these.
But they require me to buy them by the caseload (if I read their site right) and that means about $100 just for pots. And I'd only ever use half the case. So it'd last forever, and in those terms, would be worth $100. But until I know if this container size is going to work for me, I don't want to invest money in it just yet.
As an experiment last night, I took some of the remaining sprouts and planted them in 20oz water bottles, cut to about 16oz. So almost exactly half the soil volume. Which is what Dr. Bud used. So I started 7 seeds in 16oz containers last night to see how the results compare with the plants growing in the 32oz containers.
My hope is that I'll get bigger yields with the 32oz containers. My fear is that I'll overgrow the cab in the 32oz containers. So we'll watch and see.
As of 5 minutes ago: 3 of the random bag seeds have poked above the soil line, 1 of the ak have poked up.
There are now a total of 25 3x3 pots in one chamber and 7 3x3 pots and 7 water bottles in the other chamber. (14+25=39 sprouts on their way to adulthood). 4 of them have broken through the top soil. Two of those have developed their first tiny true leaves. Pics to follow when there's something besides dirt to see.
But I'm operating currently on theory... and I don't know if that theory is going to work in practice yet. If these 32 oz containers give me the results I want, I'll be happy. And then I'll probably buy these.
But they require me to buy them by the caseload (if I read their site right) and that means about $100 just for pots. And I'd only ever use half the case. So it'd last forever, and in those terms, would be worth $100. But until I know if this container size is going to work for me, I don't want to invest money in it just yet.
As an experiment last night, I took some of the remaining sprouts and planted them in 20oz water bottles, cut to about 16oz. So almost exactly half the soil volume. Which is what Dr. Bud used. So I started 7 seeds in 16oz containers last night to see how the results compare with the plants growing in the 32oz containers.
My hope is that I'll get bigger yields with the 32oz containers. My fear is that I'll overgrow the cab in the 32oz containers. So we'll watch and see.
As of 5 minutes ago: 3 of the random bag seeds have poked above the soil line, 1 of the ak have poked up.
There are now a total of 25 3x3 pots in one chamber and 7 3x3 pots and 7 water bottles in the other chamber. (14+25=39 sprouts on their way to adulthood). 4 of them have broken through the top soil. Two of those have developed their first tiny true leaves. Pics to follow when there's something besides dirt to see.
Lookin badass Anti! You did a really good job designing and building that cab.
I don't think it's a big deal to use the 23w 5500K bulbs for veg. You don't need as much light /sq ft for veg. The blue spectrum will help reduce stretch. I use 4x 23w 5500k for veg and 4x 42w 2700K for flower. You can mix spectrums of course. That being said, some guys like lifeless just use 2700K for everything, and you can't argue with his results.
I don't think it's a big deal to use the 23w 5500K bulbs for veg. You don't need as much light /sq ft for veg. The blue spectrum will help reduce stretch. I use 4x 23w 5500k for veg and 4x 42w 2700K for flower. You can mix spectrums of course. That being said, some guys like lifeless just use 2700K for everything, and you can't argue with his results.
Dude, don't be sorry for being a helpful stoner. It's a good thing.
And if you hadn't posted it again, I'd have continued to operate on the assumption that I'd have to wait til buying a case was feasable.
Now I'm planning on getting 50 of the MT38s (exact same size as what I'm using, but sturdy plastic with huge drain hole) with two of the TRAY6:
The tray six will hold 25 of the mt38s... so it'll be a little thing that'll fit perfectly in my cab and hold all of them with a nice mesh floor for better drainage. Sweet!
You rock, helpful stoner!
+Rep for you.
DemonsGate
Member
Hey Anti, very awesome design. Any chance we can get more info about the door? How are you handling light leaks for the vent hole for the CFLs? How are you making the door airtight? How are you attaching the door to the cab?
I must say this is one of the most impressive micro designs I've seen.
Rep++
More info on the door: The door has 5 vents cut into it. Two are for passive intake into the light rooms, 3 are exhaust vents, one for each light room and one for the main cab.
Today is 1 week from the day I planted my sprouts. Many of them are developing their second set of leaves right on top of the first set. They are stretching SOOO much less than my last grow attempt, so I'm pretty happy about that.
So far, 34 of 39 planted sprouts have burst through the soil and at least 30 of THOSE are showing robust healthy development. A few runts.
I watered for the second time (first being right before the sprouts went into pots) yesterday.
As far as light leaks on the back, there is a bit of light coming out of the light-room intakes and the exhausts. Currently, I have some "vent filters" on them which are white, which diffuses the light a bit, but doesn't completely get rid of it.
I was at Petsmart the other day and they sell carbon filter sheets that are about the same size as my vent filters. In the next few days, I'll purchase those and replace my white vent filters with black carbon filters. Not so much for the smell, (but it can't hurt) but more so for the fact that they're black and should eat much of the light.
I have a regular old household lamp sitting on top of the cabinet while it's pushed back against the wall. If I didn't know better, the small amount of light coming from the back of the cab would probably seem to be coming from that lamp.
I'm not in a high-risk situation at the moment (few visitors) so I was willing to get started before I solved that problem. But you'd pretty much have to be in the room, in the dark and then looking behind the cabinet to notice the light leaks. And since the leaks are from the intake and exhaust vents, I don't think there's an air-seal problem. As plants get stinkier, we'll see.
I'll take some pics tonight when I'm tending to everything and I'll try to remember to get some pics of the door.
Awww... shucks.
DemonsGate
Member
I've been pricing parts for this build and I found something some of you may be interested in.
Newegg has a a box of (4) Cooler Master 120mm "Silent Fan" PC fans for $12.99 (linky). They don't move quite as much air as the fans Anti bought, (44.73 CFM vs max of 95.22 CFM) but they are quite a bit quieter (19.1 dBA vs 25.5 dBA to 45 dBA for max speed). The real kicker for me is you pretty much get 4 fans for the price of one
.
Newegg has a a box of (4) Cooler Master 120mm "Silent Fan" PC fans for $12.99 (linky). They don't move quite as much air as the fans Anti bought, (44.73 CFM vs max of 95.22 CFM) but they are quite a bit quieter (19.1 dBA vs 25.5 dBA to 45 dBA for max speed). The real kicker for me is you pretty much get 4 fans for the price of one
.
Those don't look bad.
The major difference I'm seeing is that they would require a separate controller if you didn't want to run them at full speed.
Currently, I'm running all three fans somewhere around 30%. With all three fans at 100% you can hear it throughout the apartment. Not crazy loud... but audible.
At 30%, I can sit and type 1 ft away, and there's no issue... but if I ever notice my temps creeping up too high... i can adjust each fan individually with a little knob that I mounted into the exhaust room:
The little thing that looks like it would fit perfectly into a PC case slot? That's the fan controller. It came with each fan, and you have 3 possible settings. (full on/user-controlled fan speed/temp controlled fan speed)
For $10.50 each, it is almost triple what you'd pay for those fans, but still not much. And I can dial up (or down) the speed of my fans as needed.
I'm running at about 30% right now and the exhaust from the two light rooms is definitely warm. Not uncomfortable to touch (you can touch the individual bulbs or the glass or the exhaust vent without any pain or burning) but definitely in the 90+ range. (I haven't found thermometers locally that I like for the price, yet.) I'm running at a level that keeps the plants at a temperature that is indistinguishable from room temp. (About 71 F) The exhausted air from the light rooms are easily 20+ degree hotter (by feel) than the exhausted air from the plant rooms.
Once I get my thermometers in the rooms, I'll be able to dial the fans in precisely and may not need to run them at 30% to achieve the desired CFM.
At the lowest possible setting, these fans are rated to move 30 CFM which means I technically (if I trusted that rating) could've run this entire box on one of these fans on it's lowest setting and been just fine since the cab - at best - holds about 10.5 CFM empty. (Less if full of stuff)
RedGreenery suggested adding the glass partitions in and I'm glad I did! Because now, I can feel that all that heat that's getting exhausted into my room here WOULD'VE been sitting in there with the plants. I might've had to run the fan a lot louder to achieve the results I'm currently getting.
All told, including the cost of my soil, purchased tools (since I had none) and learning experiences along the way, I think anyone could build this cab exactly as I've done and get started with their grow for under $450.
If you already own a drill, jigsaw or any of the other parts (like say you have an old PC with a still working PSU to run your fans... saves you $15) you could EASILY build this cab (and soil, and containers, and lights... everything) for $350.
In most of the US (to my knowledge) the going rate for an 1/8th is somewhere between $40-$60 (not talking regs, folks.) So if you're paying $320-$480 per ounce right now, why wouldn't you be willing to spend $450 to build a cab that within 3-4 months could potentially be giving you an ounce a week... why wouldn't you do whatever scrimping was necessary to get this thing rolling?
You could easily use this thing as a TV stand and put your TV and DVD and whatever on top of it and nobody would think twice. You could respace the CD shelves and eliminate one and they could be DVD shelves. I just don't own enough DVDs to make that practical.
Use in an apartment, dorm room, anywhere you want. It's pulling just over 0.5 kW an hour (504w of light, plus MAYBE 30w of fans) so it's unlikely to ever draw any attention (or cost more than $15-20 more than you already are paying a month.)
[EDIT: The 0.5 kW per hour is only if the whole cab is running at once. Since it'll eventually have one room at 18 hrs and one room at 12 hrs a day, it'll actually average out to be less than 0.5 kw per hour per day.
room 1: 252w x 18 hrs = 4.536 kW hrs per day
room 2: 252w x 12 hrs = 3.024 kW hrs per day
psu/fans: ~30w x 24 hrs = 0.720 kW hrs per day
total: 8.280 kW hrs per day
8.28 x 31 days a month = 256.68 kW hrs per month]
The major difference I'm seeing is that they would require a separate controller if you didn't want to run them at full speed.
Currently, I'm running all three fans somewhere around 30%. With all three fans at 100% you can hear it throughout the apartment. Not crazy loud... but audible.
At 30%, I can sit and type 1 ft away, and there's no issue... but if I ever notice my temps creeping up too high... i can adjust each fan individually with a little knob that I mounted into the exhaust room:
The little thing that looks like it would fit perfectly into a PC case slot? That's the fan controller. It came with each fan, and you have 3 possible settings. (full on/user-controlled fan speed/temp controlled fan speed)
For $10.50 each, it is almost triple what you'd pay for those fans, but still not much. And I can dial up (or down) the speed of my fans as needed.
I'm running at about 30% right now and the exhaust from the two light rooms is definitely warm. Not uncomfortable to touch (you can touch the individual bulbs or the glass or the exhaust vent without any pain or burning) but definitely in the 90+ range. (I haven't found thermometers locally that I like for the price, yet.) I'm running at a level that keeps the plants at a temperature that is indistinguishable from room temp. (About 71 F) The exhausted air from the light rooms are easily 20+ degree hotter (by feel) than the exhausted air from the plant rooms.
Once I get my thermometers in the rooms, I'll be able to dial the fans in precisely and may not need to run them at 30% to achieve the desired CFM.
At the lowest possible setting, these fans are rated to move 30 CFM which means I technically (if I trusted that rating) could've run this entire box on one of these fans on it's lowest setting and been just fine since the cab - at best - holds about 10.5 CFM empty. (Less if full of stuff)
RedGreenery suggested adding the glass partitions in and I'm glad I did! Because now, I can feel that all that heat that's getting exhausted into my room here WOULD'VE been sitting in there with the plants. I might've had to run the fan a lot louder to achieve the results I'm currently getting.
All told, including the cost of my soil, purchased tools (since I had none) and learning experiences along the way, I think anyone could build this cab exactly as I've done and get started with their grow for under $450.
If you already own a drill, jigsaw or any of the other parts (like say you have an old PC with a still working PSU to run your fans... saves you $15) you could EASILY build this cab (and soil, and containers, and lights... everything) for $350.
In most of the US (to my knowledge) the going rate for an 1/8th is somewhere between $40-$60 (not talking regs, folks.) So if you're paying $320-$480 per ounce right now, why wouldn't you be willing to spend $450 to build a cab that within 3-4 months could potentially be giving you an ounce a week... why wouldn't you do whatever scrimping was necessary to get this thing rolling?
You could easily use this thing as a TV stand and put your TV and DVD and whatever on top of it and nobody would think twice. You could respace the CD shelves and eliminate one and they could be DVD shelves. I just don't own enough DVDs to make that practical.
Use in an apartment, dorm room, anywhere you want. It's pulling just over 0.5 kW an hour (504w of light, plus MAYBE 30w of fans) so it's unlikely to ever draw any attention (or cost more than $15-20 more than you already are paying a month.)
[EDIT: The 0.5 kW per hour is only if the whole cab is running at once. Since it'll eventually have one room at 18 hrs and one room at 12 hrs a day, it'll actually average out to be less than 0.5 kw per hour per day.
room 1: 252w x 18 hrs = 4.536 kW hrs per day
room 2: 252w x 12 hrs = 3.024 kW hrs per day
psu/fans: ~30w x 24 hrs = 0.720 kW hrs per day
total: 8.280 kW hrs per day
8.28 x 31 days a month = 256.68 kW hrs per month]
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See why I suggested the Panasonic WhisperCeiling 80cfm fan? It may be $140 (around $100 if you find the right place) but it's much more powerful than those three bitty fans and.......... SILENT. Or at least silent enough that complete silence is simple to do, not some huge project.
That $140 may seem like a lot, until you stand next to a cab that doesn't make any sound at all and realize how much less you'll ever have to worry about it.
I still think the whisper fan might be a good way to go for someone contemplating this thing.
But... I have room that I could potentially mount up to 4 of these fans in each "exhaust room" at $10 each. So I could add tons more fans and still not spend as much as the whisper fan.
On the lowest settings (30cfm per fan) these things are inaudible standing right next to them.
On 30% the whole cab makes about as much noise as my pc. I doubt anyone will notice.
I'm also considering remounting the control panels somewhere like beneath the bottom shelf, so that I could increase or decrease the fan speed discretely without having to open the cab. That way, I could turn fans all the way down if someone knocked on the door.
At 30%, the cab is silent within a few feet.
DemonsGate
Member
I can see where having separate controlers for each fan would be handy. Although if you set up all the fans wiring in parallel to run off one of these:
then you could throttle the speed of all the fans by lowering the voltage on the power brick. I think this could be a bit stealthier than your current setup since you're using a PC power supply and the PS has its own fan built in and AFAIK you can't change the speed of that fan, also the power supply itself generates a bit of heat. So no matter how much you turn down your fans you still have the noise of the power supply to contend with.
I agree, this design with Dr. Bud's method is the ultimate stealth producer.
I still think the whisper fan might be a good way to go for someone contemplating this thing.
But... I have room that I could potentially mount up to 4 of these fans in each "exhaust room" at $10 each. So I could add tons more fans and still not spend as much as the whisper fan.
On the lowest settings (30cfm per fan) these things are inaudible standing right next to them.
On 30% the whole cab makes about as much noise as my pc. I doubt anyone will notice.
I'm also considering remounting the control panels somewhere like beneath the bottom shelf, so that I could increase or decrease the fan speed discretely without having to open the cab. That way, I could turn fans all the way down if someone knocked on the door.
purpbythepound
Member
anti,great design bro!! excellent actually..im using sketchup for my own design at the moment and am wondering how you converted the sketchup file into an image file to be upoaded here
