America

[CaptainDankness]

you're one of the few that seems to think that fully automatic firearms should be deregulated
if you take the 2nd amendment literally, i can see the interpretation
anyone else on the fully automatic bandwagon?

Our merchant ships where armed with cannons to fend off pirates in George Washington's day. Also it's not hard to get a license to own fully automatic firearms they are still legalish, I can buy one if I truly wanted, legally. Only problem is they are expensive as fuck, I've looked into it.

You can also own explosives with the right licenses and shit, something else I can do legally, if I wanted to.

 

[CaptainDankness]

Your obviously an idiot and a kid.I'm from Chicago.if you think what AL Copone did is excusable you don't need to be on this site.in fact,you speak the opposite of what this site is about.get bent kid

He's a big part of the reason I can purchase alcohol. The man is kind of a hero. Of course the gang violence was pretty bad, but he'd have been a nobody without prohibition.

If you are for prohibition, you probably shouldn't be on a cannabis site. I'm also 35 years old, but still a kid at heart.

 

[Cannavore]

How is Al Capone a hero? He benefitted from prohibition in the same way Mexican cartels do today. Theyre all scum and would be bums without prohibition. That doesn't make any one a hero.

 

[St. Phatty]

you're one of the few that seems to think that fully automatic firearms should be deregulated
if you take the 2nd amendment literally, i can see the interpretation
anyone else on the fully automatic bandwagon?

I'm semi-comfortable with the current laws.

As far as the 2nd amendment, it does not grant us the right to have whatever weapons the US gov. has. As much as I might enjoy having my own cruise missile armada, I do not interpret the 2nd Amendment as saying I have that right.

Where is the line drawn ? Currently, civilians in the US have access to almost everything the US gov has.

There's also an important legal detail - the law passed in October 2005, the "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act".

I think that is a wierd law, because we live in a country where rear-ending somebody in a car, results in a near automatic payment in the 4 or 5 figures category to them.

It would be safe to say, America is a fairly litigious country.

When you look at the firearms manufacturing stats, rifle sales have really taken off since 2007. I'm not sure how connected that is to the Commerce in Arms Act.

But I do know that semi-auto's are surprisingly cheap. They've gone up about 10% since the February 14 Florida High School shooting.

There is an ongoing lawsuit by the Sandy Hook parents against Remington Bushmaster. I read an article yesterday where the author presented the reasons he thought the very recent Remington bankruptcy announcement is related to their legal strategy for dealing with the Sandy Hook lawsuit.

Long story short, semi-auto's are only cheap because they're doing production runs of 100 at a time (at the smaller shops). And, because the manufacturers can be semi confident they won't be held liable for whoever is killed with something they manufacture.

That confidence can go away overnight. So can the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.

I sense that change is in the air.

Also, looking at the timeline of mass shootings, it seems to be transitioning from a mass shooting every year or 2 frequency, to the recent 3 mass shootings in 5 months.

It's sort of a sociological statistics judgment, but I would be surprised if 6 months passed without another such shooting.

If that happens, especially if it hurts one of society's more protected castes or groups, I think the pressure on politicians will be more than what it took for Trump to ban bump stocks.

 

[coldcanna]

Where is the line drawn ? Currently, civilians in the US have access to almost everything the US gov has.

I think people should be as armed as police and all other law enforcement. The whole point is to ensure that your other rights aren't infringed upon by authorities. It is typically the police/FBI/DEA etc. that does the infringing, its illegal for military members to conduct any type of police work in the United States therefor you don't hear of soldiers kicking in American doors.

The lefty BLM anti-cop crowd should agree with us on this one - if they're all corrupt pigs why aren't you guys equipped to protect your families? Its really not that different of a platform than libertarian milita anti-government types, they don't trust the government so they arm themselves against it.

I still want to hear the justification from ANY of the anti-gun people on here please! If your platform and train of thought is that police, authorities, and corporations are evil - why would you want to ban the only weapons that equalize the common citizens chance of defense against said authorities?

 

[CaptainDankness]

How is Al Capone a hero? He benefitted from prohibition in the same way Mexican cartels do today. Theyre all scum and would be bums without prohibition. That doesn't make any one a hero.

No different than how Mr. Nice AKA Howard Marks became a somebody. He was the shit but wouldn't have been anyone without prohibition. Really, Sam The Skunkman and Nevil were also criminals at one point. Every single person who grows and sells cannabis or it's seeds are criminals. You think $100+ dollars for 10 seeds is possible in a legal market?

Even dispensaries charging $40-50 an eighth would not be possible if it was legal to do so. Most all of them would be bums if not for prohibition. I wouldn't go as far as to call everyone in the cannabis industry around the world scum, but here you are.

I guess one man's scum, is another man's freedom fighter.

 

[St. Phatty]

I think people should be as armed as police and all other law enforcement. The whole point is to ensure that your other rights aren't infringed upon by authorities. It is typically the police/FBI/DEA etc. that does the infringing, its illegal for military members to conduct any type of police work in the United States therefor you don't hear of soldiers kicking in American doors.

The lefty BLM anti-cop crowd should agree with us on this one - if they're all corrupt pigs why aren't you guys equipped to protect your families? Its really not that different of a platform than libertarian milita anti-government types, they don't trust the government so they arm themselves against it.

I still want to hear the justification from ANY of the anti-gun people on here please! If your platform and train of thought is that police, authorities, and corporations are evil - why would you want to ban the only weapons that equalize the common citizens chance of defense against said authorities?

SECONDED !

It is odd how the conversation about school safety gets tied to this massive unsolve-able situation (100 million semi-auto's in the hands of private citizens.)

Schools are a soft target. They need to be a hardened target, in light of the unique American sort of like Civil War our society is engaged in.

Adding 2nd Amendment debate to the debate just makes a complicated situation more complicated. Guaranteeing that more months will pass before the problem is solved, which by definition increases the chance of another mass shooting.

America has a contrived Terror War for 16 years and learns NOTHING about hardening facilities ?!

Wouldn't buildings containing children be Priority #1 in terms of eliminating soft-ness in public places ?

I sense that our semi-elected officials have little intent on making schools safe, SEPARATE from laws on semi-auto's.

FVCKING IDIOTS !!!!!

Maybe it's the color of the barbed wire that's a problem. Does our idiot government have a Metrosexual Blockage ?

They could get Apple Computer to design some Spiffy looking barbed wire topped fences, with matching metal detectors.

QUESTION -
I think American schools could be hardened in a week. That means a whole bunch of metal detectors and a whole bunch of fences, installed and erected quickly -
because it's fucking urgent, kids being safe that is.

Could it be done in a week ?

What is a realistic schedule for a project like that ?

 

[BurnOne]

you're one of the few that seems to think that fully automatic firearms should be deregulated
if you take the 2nd amendment literally, i can see the interpretation
anyone else on the fully automatic bandwagon?

If you have between $25,000 and $50,000 and can pass the background check you can buy a full auto AR. Other full auto rifles are much cheaper. I've seen them for $5,000.
Burn1

 

[Spaventa]

Ultimately, its about freedom. People who want to ban things like guns, cannabis, speech, they don't want freedom.

 

[igrowone]

If you have between $25,000 and $50,000 and can pass the background check you can buy a full auto AR. Other full auto rifles are much cheaper. I've seen them for $5,000.
Burn1

it's the background check i was going for
no pass, no machine gun
crimes by machine gun? not so many
i don't recall one myself

edit: maybe one, 2 eastern european brothers i think
taped themselves up in kevlar, maybe had fully automatic rifles

 

[moose eater]

I believe you're mingling registered class III/NFA compliant weapons with non-registered illegal selective fire weapons. Not all machine guns are equal.

I've been a class III owner. The background check isn't all that difficult to pass, if you've been playing well with others, and avoided convictions, don't have visible ties to al Qaeda, etc..

Of the 50 states, I believe 31 permit for civilian ownership of class III weapons, to include AOWs, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, suppressors/silencers, select-fire and full-automatic (yes, there's a difference). But it's been years since I had cause to research any of this.

Plenty of crimes have been committed with non-registered (often home-modified) class III/selective-fire weaponry. Those guns, even before they were used in crimes, were each considered felonies, worthy of a serious federal sentence.

There was an almost-successful challenge to the necessity of licensing full-auto-capable weapons from Phoenix, by a fellow who had numerous felonies under his belt, who argued that because he hadn't intended to sell it, and because it was built at home, he should not be subject to the commerce clause as it lent itself to enforcement of the 1968 NFA. I'll leave that tid-bit there, as it serves no further purpose.

Of the REGISTERED, privately-owned selective-fire or full-auto weaponry, as of about 30 years ago there was only ONE case I was aware of in which such a weapon was used in a felony; an off-duty cop greased his wife with a privately-owned class III selective-fire weapon. (*To this day, when someone I know involves themselves professionally or romantically with cops, I tell them, "There goes the neighborhood!!" )

If you look at historical murders involving long-guns, and compare standard firearms to selective-fire weapons, the Springfield .30-06 is far more deadly, shot for shot, than a full-auto weapon, unless you're opening up on folks inside an elevator.

For one such case (to research if you like) research 'Michael Silka' and the murders he committed in the Interior of Alaska. The last body he took was a SERT Alaska State Trooper (our version of SWAT), when Silka (a trained rifleman and helicopter mechanic, courtesy of Uncle Sam) stepped from behind a spruce tree, and immediately put a bullet through Trooper Duncan's neck and out the back of his head, & into the interior of the chopper near the hydraulics immediately beneath the rotor, in a Stretch Bell Ranger, before Duncan's partner opened up on him with a CAR Shorty, and visually walked the fire pattern over the ground and up into Silka's torso. (*Silka killed a number of mostly-decent persons, including a broke-dick stoner down the road from me; suspected to have been his first victim in his local killing spree).

You can also research the cost per kill in S.E. Asia, driven up dramatically, in part, by full-auto weapons, where 'pray and spray' was the motto.

Point being, a well-handled bolt action rifle, shot for shot, is far more lethal than something where, in many cases, the muzzle climb produced by full-auto fire makes a 3-round burst the best a person can achieve where -accurate- 'controlled fire' is concerned.

it's the background check i was going for
no pass, no machine gun
crimes by machine gun? not so many
i don't recall one myself

edit: maybe one, 2 eastern european brothers i think
taped themselves up in kevlar, maybe had fully automatic rifles

 

[igrowone]

I believe you're mingling registered class III/NFA compliant weapons with non-registered illegal selective fire weapons. Not all machine guns are equal.

I've been a class III owner. The background check isn't all that difficult to pass, if you've been playing well with others, and avoided convictions, don't have visible ties to al Qaeda, etc..

...

i was being loose with the definitions, but you did a nice job summarizing it
and the check isn't super hard, which can be considered good
few crimes committed with that background check in place
no more restrictive than it needs to be

 

[moose eater]

By the way, the increased cost of many class III weapons was brought about superficially, via the May 19, 1986 restriction, that basically stated that any civilian-transferable selective-fire or full-auto weapon had to be at least 80% complete, and papered by midnight on the date referenced.

It took about 10-11 years for the price of class III weapons to reflect that line of restriction, as the market is relatively small.

When I bought my first MAC-10 9mm machine pistol, it was an original Ingram product, with an RPB over-stamp, and cost just over $300 new in the box. That was years ago, and I no longer own ANY of my federally-registered selective-fire weapons.

Having ANY formal relationship with Uncle Sam, wherein He can legally justify compromising of your privacy &/or rights, is a strategically bad arrangement... in my opinion.

 

[Cannavore]

No different than how Mr. Nice AKA Howard Marks became a somebody. He was the shit but wouldn't have been anyone without prohibition. Really, Sam The Skunkman and Nevil were also criminals at one point. Every single person who grows and sells cannabis or it's seeds are criminals. You think $100+ dollars for 10 seeds is possible in a legal market?

Even dispensaries charging $40-50 an eighth would not be possible if it was legal to do so. Most all of them would be bums if not for prohibition. I wouldn't go as far as to call everyone in the cannabis industry around the world scum, but here you are.

I guess one man's scum, is another man's freedom fighter.

You're comparing a guy who killed people with guns and explosives with people who imported cannabis/seed to the US in non violent ways lmao. How many people did Howard Marks, Nevil, and Sam kill to get where they are?

What was Al Capone a freedom fighter of? He took advantage of a uninforced black market. If not him, someone else would have taken his place. Are today's Mexican Cartels also freedom fighters?

 

[CaptainDankness]

it's the background check i was going for
no pass, no machine gun
crimes by machine gun? not so many
i don't recall one myself

edit: maybe one, 2 eastern european brothers i think
taped themselves up in kevlar, maybe had fully automatic rifles

Machine Gun Kelly, Bonnie and Clyde, John Dillinger, also the St. Valentine's day massacre where allegedly Al Capone paid off the Chicago police to pull over and line up 7 members of Chicago's North Side Gang and hired men to gun them down. They used 2 Thompson submachine guns. Along with many other lower profile bootleggers and thieves.

Also a few gangsters in recent years have killed other gangsters with black market submachine guns. Hell, the Crips even had an RPG in the 80's to 90's in LA along with fully automatic submachine guns illegally aquired. The Hell's Angels and Outlaws even had a gang war and used illegal car bombs on each other inocent people did die on accident. Mob hits have also been carried out with car bombs as well in the past surely some fully automatic weapons as well illegally aquired. Shit, I even know one guy who got caught with an Israeli Uzi recently who was a felon which is a submachine gun.

I guarantee if I was to actually look for a fully automatic submachine gun I'd aquire one in a week or so. Untraceable pistols I can grab tomorrow as well.

Outlaw guns or even just certain guns, the demand for illegal weapons will skyrocket as will the supply.

Just look at crack, meth and heroin they enforced them drugs harder and they are more readily available than ever. Guns will be no different, this is America!! Every criminal in the world wants to do business with us, which is why we have gangs from every corner of the world.

I'm happy with my semi automatic rifles personally of course if a gang comes at me with fully automatic weapons they will have fire superiority and my chances of survival will be dramatically reduced. So I wouldn't mind a fully automatic just in case I piss off the wrong person. Of course, I usually don't start trouble with people so I should be good.

We also don't know for sure what type of weapons the Vagas shooter used, of course they did blame AR-15's and bump stocks, I just have yet to see proof. For all we know he could have used a belt fed M60 machine gun. Either way I'm not guilty of the man's actions I would have shot him dead given the opportunity same as any other mass shooter.

Also 90 people or so were murdered in Nice,France by a truck, should we ban trucks?? Really more people are killed every year by car accidents than guns, should we ban vehicles and switch back to horse and buggy??

Heart disease is also the #1 killer in America, should we ban McDonald's?

 

[Wendull C.]

No different than how Mr. Nice AKA Howard Marks became a somebody. He was the shit but wouldn't have been anyone without prohibition. Really, Sam The Skunkman and Nevil were also criminals at one point. Every single person who grows and sells cannabis or it's seeds are criminals. You think $100+ dollars for 10 seeds is possible in a legal market?

Even dispensaries charging $40-50 an eighth would not be possible if it was legal to do so. Most all of them would be bums if not for prohibition. I wouldn't go as far as to call everyone in the cannabis industry around the world scum, but here you are.

I guess one man's scum, is another man's freedom fighter.

Put down the shovel....

 

[CaptainDankness]

You're comparing a guy who killed people with guns and explosives with people who imported cannabis to the US in non violent ways lmao. How many people did Howard Marks, Nevil, and Sam kill to get where they are?

What was Al Capone a freedom fighter of? He took advantage of a uninforced black market. If not him, someone else would have taken his place. Are today's Mexican Cartels also freedom fighters?

Howard Marks dealt with Afghan hashish producers I'm sure many Afghan people were murdered over the hashish he aquired. Just like George Jung never murdered anyone to the publics knowledge, but he got his cocaine from Pablo Escobar who killed a hell of a lot of people.

I don't see a difference, they worked with ruthless killers and made them rich and powerful. The cartels don't sell on the streets they make big deals with Americans and gangs that move their product which causes lots of deaths.

I don't have much of a problem with cartels they are just trying to make money in dirt poor countries. All the murders are unfortunate, but that's only because of prohibition. The Mexican and Columbian people and governments know this they just can't stop it since drugs are the only way for them to make decent money.

How many people are murdered by competition for selling alcohol?? Certainly not very many, not even in Mexico.

Prohibition does not work.

 

[CaptainDankness]

If you are OK with Muslims, you should be just fine with guns.

 

[EasyGoing]

If you are OK with Muslims, you should be just fine with guns.

Yea, except guns save lives also.

The great equalizer. The gun.

 

[Spaventa]

Howard Marks dealt with Afghan hashish producers I'm sure many Afghan people were murdered over the hashish he aquired. Just like George Jung never murdered anyone to the publics knowledge, but he got his cocaine from Pablo Escobar who killed a hell of a lot of people.

I don't see a difference, they worked with ruthless killers and made them rich and powerful. The cartels don't sell on the streets they make big deals with Americans and gangs that move their product which causes lots of deaths.

I don't have much of a problem with cartels they are just trying to make money in dirt poor countries. All the murders are unfortunate, but that's only because of prohibition. The Mexican and Columbian people and governments know this they just can't stop it since drugs are the only way for them to make decent money.

How many people are murdered by competition for selling alcohol?? Certainly not very many, not even in Mexico.

Prohibition does not work.

MNS was no hero - he was one of those who imported the rubbish we smoked in the eighties that was made in morocco, came through spain and then to england on ferries. "Soap bar" it was called and was 80 percent fan leaves, 10 percent rotten bud and 10 percent human shit, shoe polish, glue, plastic. Human waste is no joke - it helps bind it. Is it purely coincidence that MNS has a strain called shit?? It wasn't so much prohibition that made people turn to growing their own - it was shit hash. I was always disappointed that Neville and Shanti hitched themselves to that wagon. I'm sure ben and arjan were no less dodgy to work for but Howard just seemed like an outsider with no business being involved in a seed company.