Alternative To Fox Farm Soil

[Ringodoggie]

The main ingredient in Fox Farms is composted forest humus which has a pH of around neutral 7. The added amendments drop the pH lower when pure water is added to the growing media. If you overwater, you can burn the plants from a too low of a pH or if you add their fertilizer too early. As time goes by,(4 to 6 weeks) the organic amendments will be depleted and the pH will start to rise back to 7. That's when you add fertilizer to Fox Farms and that will drop the pH back to a suitable range. Fox Farms is a super mix unless given bad water management.

I think this is what is happening to me. When I buy the Happy Frog it is so wet it's like a brick. I transplanted some autos from #1 nursery pots to #7 pots and the Happy frog was so wet, I couldn't water them for almost 2 weeks. After 5 or 6 days, the plants started showing signs of pH issues. Rotting leaves. Spots of crust. Standard pH stuff. Still, the soil was too wet to water.

I moved them from #1 to #7 in week 4. They are in week 11 and not showing many signs of maturing. Growth has slowed way way down after the transplant. Plants are tiny and stunted. In that entire 6 weeks after transplanting they only got 4 cups of water (each). Less than a cup per week and no nutes.

I finally got frustrated and started trying to dry them out with fans and such but it just too late. Autos are so non forgiving.

In a separate issue I started some seeds in some Frog in another room and after about a week of good healthy growth, some leaves are now showing crusty signs. I have started seeds in Frog a zillion times and never had this issue.

I always pH check my water and/or nutes before using. My water is about 7.8 from the tap and I use a little pH down to take it to 7.0. When I do nutes, the nutes usually take the pH down to about 6.3 to 6.5. At 6.3 or lower I use a little base to bring it back up to about 6.5.

I may switch to Promix. I have been using Happy Frog for over 10 years and always loved it but since I moved to SoCal I have had all kinds of issues. Maybe it's the new water and the way it reacts with the Frog or maybe Fox Farms changed their formula but whatever it is, it has to stop. I have had 6 or 7 shitty grows in a row because of this issue.

I poured out the last 2 bags of Frog and I have it drying on the floor in my garage. It has been drying for over a week and is still very damp. And, let's remember that I live in the desert with 20% humidity. You would think it would dry faster than this.

I am getting ready to put more plants from #1 to #7 and I am really hesitant to use the Frog again.. I understand the ProMix has no nutes and is just blank medium. If that is true, I might go that route and use more nutes to compensate.

I am like you @Creeperpark about using only water for the first 4 weeks or so. The Frog always carried the plants that far. Then, I start using the Fox Farms nute trio at about half the recommended strength.

Just lately, I bought some Fish Emulsion and some seaweed (Neptune's Harvest). And, my supplier gave me a sample of some bloom booster from Humboldt County Nutes. I am back to growing photoperiod plants and I am great in the veg stage but after a few weeks in flowering, I get a lot of yellowing and leaf drop so I am going to try boosting and amending during the flowering period to see if I can help the yellowing issue.

I am dealing with a lot of new issues since I moved like different temps and humidity levels but this pH issue is the one that's killing me. I may try the Frog one more time since I have 4 or 5 bags in the garage but I am going to dry it super dry before using it and then I can bring the moisture level up the way I want to instead of trying to dry everything out after planting.

Thanks for the tip, Creeper. I try drying the dirt next time and see how it goes.

If the dirt gets too dry will the beneficial bacteria in the soil die?

 

[Redrum92]

I think this is what is happening to me. When I buy the Happy Frog it is so wet it's like a brick. I transplanted some autos from #1 nursery pots to #7 pots and the Happy frog was so wet, I couldn't water them for almost 2 weeks. After 5 or 6 days, the plants started showing signs of pH issues. Rotting leaves. Spots of crust. Standard pH stuff. Still, the soil was too wet to water.

I moved them from #1 to #7 in week 4. They are in week 11 and not showing many signs of maturing. Growth has slowed way way down after the transplant. Plants are tiny and stunted. In that entire 6 weeks after transplanting they only got 4 cups of water (each). Less than a cup per week and no nutes.

I finally got frustrated and started trying to dry them out with fans and such but it just too late. Autos are so non forgiving.

In a separate issue I started some seeds in some Frog in another room and after about a week of good healthy growth, some leaves are now showing crusty signs. I have started seeds in Frog a zillion times and never had this issue.

I always pH check my water and/or nutes before using. My water is about 7.8 from the tap and I use a little pH down to take it to 7.0. When I do nutes, the nutes usually take the pH down to about 6.3 to 6.5. At 6.3 or lower I use a little base to bring it back up to about 6.5.

I may switch to Promix. I have been using Happy Frog for over 10 years and always loved it but since I moved to SoCal I have had all kinds of issues. Maybe it's the new water and the way it reacts with the Frog or maybe Fox Farms changed their formula but whatever it is, it has to stop. I have had 6 or 7 shitty grows in a row because of this issue.

I poured out the last 2 bags of Frog and I have it drying on the floor in my garage. It has been drying for over a week and is still very damp. And, let's remember that I live in the desert with 20% humidity. You would think it would dry faster than this.

I am getting ready to put more plants from #1 to #7 and I am really hesitant to use the Frog again.. I understand the ProMix has no nutes and is just blank medium. If that is true, I might go that route and use more nutes to compensate.

I am like you @Creeperpark about using only water for the first 4 weeks or so. The Frog always carried the plants that far. Then, I start using the Fox Farms nute trio at about half the recommended strength.

Just lately, I bought some Fish Emulsion and some seaweed (Neptune's Harvest). And, my supplier gave me a sample of some bloom booster from Humboldt County Nutes. I am back to growing photoperiod plants and I am great in the veg stage but after a few weeks in flowering, I get a lot of yellowing and leaf drop so I am going to try boosting and amending during the flowering period to see if I can help the yellowing issue.

I am dealing with a lot of new issues since I moved like different temps and humidity levels but this pH issue is the one that's killing me. I may try the Frog one more time since I have 4 or 5 bags in the garage but I am going to dry it super dry before using it and then I can bring the moisture level up the way I want to instead of trying to dry everything out after planting.

Thanks for the tip, Creeper. I try drying the dirt next time and see how it goes.

If the dirt gets too dry will the beneficial bacteria in the soil die?

Man, that sucks. No fun struggling with improperly stored soil. Is it possible to find another source/vendor for the Happy Frog? I've found different sources make a big difference despite it being the "same" product/brand, as the storage method/timeline/environment makes a big difference.

I would imagine that yes, letting it get bone dry would kill the (beneficial or not) bacteria and fungus, but many are good at reviving themselves once they are given water again. Also, if soil is too wet for too long, it can throw the balance of these, and let bacteria/fungus grow in a way that was not intended, possibly being colonized by something detrimental to plant health. I've gotten the occasional bags of both Happy Frog and Ocean Forest that reek of mildew here and there.

 

[53grayeyes]

Since you mentioned So. Cal I thought I may let you know that our water is very very hard. I used to keep fish from Lake Tanganyika. The ph there is between 8.5 and 9. Our water here, and I tested it continually usually hits 8.2 so to grow with it you have to soften it. I use a tablespoon to a tablespoon and a half of white store bought vinegar per gallon which lowers it into the 6 range.

With FFOF I have used this since I started. It was fine when I was growing hybrids. I have never thrown away any of the soil. Now I add to it, wood ash, charcoal, at times epsom salts in the water, worm castings or gunk out of the worm bed with worms. Before with the hybrids they need some extra nitrogen but growing landraces they hate that stuff. I have about 36 gallons of soil that I put on a garbage bag and mix with whatever I think it needs. No burning ever from the soil. Days over 100 degrees are a different story.

 

[Ringodoggie]

My tap water is close to 8 pH and I use General Hydroponics pH down which is phosphoric acid, I think to bring it down to about 7.0

I use a standard RV water filter on my tap and I fill 1 gallon jugs which sit for a couple days before use to dis some of the chlorine.

I just used my BlueLab pH/combo meter to measure the water and it was at 120 ppm. So that is not too terrible bad but still on the highest end of moderately hard.

I don't recall what it was back in why oh why Ohio before I moved. I am near Palm Springs, now.

After lowering the pH, it still measures 120 ppm. Is that normal?

Ever since I have been here in SoCal and having these issues, I have always held the water as the prime suspect. I looked at RO systems but I read some bad about RO water so until I know more, I'll keep going with this water.

Creeper is spot on with the issue being more prominent with overwatering. I am just keeping thing dryer for now to see what happens.

I am just bummed about another crop failure. I probably wont get 8 ounces out of these 7 plants and that isn't even worth the time.

Live and learn.

Thanks