Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[milkyjoe]

I remain a fan of logan labs. Never personally waited more than a week. They charge like 25 for the basic test. I believe john is charging 75 cause our soils are considered compost...but I don't know that for a fact

 

[CaliGabe]

You might call jeremy at build a soil and work something out...he does lots of tests with logan...good guy.

Uggghhhh. When I was chatting with him earlier this year he'd never done a soil test. At that point he was in the 'if you have a lot of organic material content and strong biological activity you're fine' camp. He may be a good guy yet on a big learning curve. Hopefully he's working with someone that can help him decipher test results then know how to adjust things and provide a quality mix to his customers. Is that you? For sure I know one customer that would say Jeremy didn't know what he was doing. Far as I know only reason Jeremy got into testing was because of you attempting to find some base material he was offering, ala compost/top soil/EWC/etc. that was actually useable. Jeremy was in the Cootz camp and hopefully he's grown out of it. Based on my experience, and that of others, I have no respect for Jeremy at Build a Soil.

 

[Bulldog420]

You can just pay to get your results faster. That's what I do. They actually use the correct test so it's worth doing.

To figure out how much spectrum extra to use you can take an acre , which is 43,000 sq ft , and divide it by the number of sq footage of your beds , ie., if your beds are 25 sq ft and you have 100 of them , you have 2500 sq ft to cover which is 5% of an acre , so you can do 5% of 50 grams , which is 3 grams , in as much water as it will take to evenly cover all 100 beds.

Be sure to mix the Spectrum Extra in a bucket of water with nothing else in it and let it stand for a few minutes, then stir it up and mix it in. Applying with Rejuvenate really helps.

If you want to just blast them , put a quarter gram per gallon.

Thanks for the directions, that helps a lot. Only question I have is, do I take the sq ft of the entire pot volume or just the surface area? I have 400gal smart pots that are 70" diameter and 24" tall. Everything else is crystal clear, thanks again.

I am on a phone right now but there is a formula for calculating total cation exchange capacity...maybe the brookside something or other. Or steve solomons worksheets have the formula on them. Problem is I don't know what method was used on those tests.

You might call jeremy at build a soil and work something out...he does lots of tests with logan...good guy.

But you need ca and micros in a big way. Both the sodium and potassium will combine with sulfates and leach out...especially if you are in pots that drain well.

Foliar the fuck out of albion ca if you can get it

Should I also top dress with some rock dust? Not sure that will help this year but I am also going to apply some tea's and I am going to throw ruck dusts in there. Photomag and Micropak should also help with this right?

I don't have Albion but I have both PureProtienDry and PHT Calcuim. Any reason one or both wont work? Fertigate and foliar? Twice a week?





I am going to send out a sample to Logan tomorrow, looks like I might have wasted $100 with Dirty Soil. At least the water test was great IMO.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Bulldog , you just take the surface area when doing the math because we are making the assumption that you'll use enough water to get it down to the roots.

What gets good inoculation is good contact.

 

[DoubleDDsNuggs]

I'm not sure if my answer is right but at the place I go to get my soil amendments, I asked about how to convert from a sq ft to cu ft for potting soil. so a 100 sqft is 50 cuft. so if you take the square footage and divide that in half, that would give you the answer if your bed was a foot deep. but since it's twice that just take the answer you get and multiply by 2 which makes it the same as the square foot so what ever number your the square footage of your bed is, is the amount in cubic feet. at least that is how it works out in my head...I'm not so good at math. but maybe this helps? lol

you have a 109 sq ft in your bed so you have 109 cuft

EDIT
so in your case the application rates would be the same but if someone had a foot deep bed the application rate would be halved. 5lbs/100 sqft=(?)/50 cuft so the application rate would be 2.5 lbs per 50 cuft for someone who had a foot deep bed.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Square is the multiple of length and width , cubic also adds depth , if you assume a soil depth of 1' in your calculation then yes , the two values are the same number but not the same volumes.

 

[CaliGabe]

I did the math for milky's and here is what I came up with, double check me.

31.5 ml sea shield per gal
15.75 ml Sea Stim per gal
31.5 ml PHT Calcuim per gal

Correct me if I am wrong people but this is for a foliar spray, as to where the 1ml per gal recommendations were for fertigation???

That's about right for those products. Basically 1 oz/gal and half for Sea Stim. Rejuvenate at 1 oz/gal. Where did the 1 ml/gal recommendation come from?

I think it's a bit funny that neither AEA nor Tainio can provide recommendations for use for the 'small' scale gardener and peeps attempting to figure it out online.

 

[DoubleDDsNuggs]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6411950&postcount=260

So 5220 lbs per acre of field soil is what they are telling you...5220 lbs Ca in 2,000,000 lbs of field soil.

A yard of your soil is about 800 lbs...so 5220 x (800/2,000,000) = 2 lbs of Ca in one yard. But gypsum is 20% Ca so you have to take that into account.

2/0.2 = 10 lbs of gypsum to get 2 lbs of Ca.

27 cubic ft in a yard.

So you figure out how many cubic ft in a bed...divide that by 27 and multiply by 10 to figure out lbs per bed.

So say your bed is 8' x 4' x 1.5' (18 inches deep)...48 cubic ft
= 1.8 yards x 10 = 18 lbs of gypsum.

You have to take into account what % is Ca. For example hi cal lime is gonna be around 40% Ca, you would only need half if you choose that. But gypsum won't raise your pH...it will probably drop a hair as Ca replaces Mg on the cec sites. Plus the sulfate will help you leach out the extra K.

found this and it will save milkyjoe some typing possibly.

 

[Luther Burbank]

Son of a bitch. The plants certainly look happy today, but the SeaShield didn't begin to touch the powdery mildew. Gonna use as a soil drench today and try a foliar of baking soda(yeah yeah, Na, I know) instead.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Well it's not instant... But it does work.

Biological advantage will have an application chart geared towards home growers as well as large scale growers.

Most people can figure out that 1 Qt per acre in 30 gal is 1 oz per gal ....the you got your marijuana growers...who need to be told the exact ml amount per gallon.

 

[milkyjoe]

Ain't saying I a m right here but I figure it by the yard cause the roots will fill that entire pot. An acre furrow slice weighs 2, 000, 000 lbs and is assumed to be 6 inches deep. So an acre is 807 yards...43560 sq ft x 0.5 (ft deep) = 21780 cubic ft ÷ 27 cubic ft per yard = 807 yards.

A 400 gallon pot is 2 yards.

So acre recommendation x 2/807 would be what I would use.

Check this but I think spectrum extra is 50 grams per acre...don't trust my memory. So 50 ×2 ÷807 = 0.12 grams per pot.

 

[milkyjoe]

I also use 1 gt per acre is 1 ounce per gallon foliar

 

[milkyjoe]

That's about right for those products. Basically 1 oz/gal and half for Sea Stim. Rejuvenate at 1 oz/gal. Where did the 1 ml/gal recommendation come from?

I think it's a bit funny that neither AEA nor Tainio can provide recommendations for use for the 'small' scale gardener and peeps attempting to figure it out online.

For small scale tainio recommends ( I called them) 1/8 tsp per gallon biogenesis or mycogenesis if you aren't using an acid P. 5 drops per gallon pepzyme. 1/4 tsp per gallon micro 5000 or pz 1000.

Gary R sent me his original mary jane spread sheet which calculated the same way they do for beds...simply sq ft divided by sq ft per acre.

They also recommend 20-30 gallons of water foliar per acre. So I simply started using 1/30 of the acre amount per gallon...or to make it simpler 1 gt is 1 ounce. This foliar rate works very well indoors or out.

The fertigation rates take some tweaking for the aea products in my opinion....you have to observe

 

[milkyjoe]

Son of a bitch. The plants certainly look happy today, but the SeaShield didn't begin to touch the powdery mildew. Gonna use as a soil drench today and try a foliar of baking soda(yeah yeah, Na, I know) instead.

I am sure rates are higher for an active infection. I would call aea and ask. I would bet 2-4 ounces per gallon for 3 applications...but I don't know that for certain

 

[Luther Burbank]

Milky; I suspect your direct contact with their rep is very useful. The woman I spoke with was helpful but honest about the fact she didn't know about application rates and that she'd send me the paperwork with the product. I figured it may take multiple sprays but didn't know if back to back in less than 24h would hurt. Will run a stronger spray tomorrow. Longer term I doubt I will be running this cross again outdoors in these humidity levels. The ones with the PM have incredible stature but the siblings without PM have an awful lanky weak stem trait I believe comes from the OG.

 

[Bulldog420]

It's frustration that AEA doesn't have application rates per gallon. The guys can produce an excellent product but can't ship it without exploding and can't break down per gal feedings. I have e-mailed Gary 3 times to this effect and not a peep back.

 

[milkyjoe]

Milky; I suspect your direct contact with their rep is very useful. The woman I spoke with was helpful but honest about the fact she didn't know about application rates and that she'd send me the paperwork with the product. I figured it may take multiple sprays but didn't know if back to back in less than 24h would hurt. Will run a stronger spray tomorrow. Longer term I doubt I will be running this cross again outdoors in these humidity levels. The ones with the PM have incredible stature but the siblings without PM have an awful lanky weak stem trait I believe comes from the OG.

I will text him. Hopefully he gets a chance to reply...he is for real busy though

 

[reppin2c]

Agreeing with Cali Gabe I went to Montrose and dropped off over a half ton of amendments to be mixed into build a soils base mix. I can't say for sure but I could smell the 200 lbs bone meal or see the 200 lbs oyster shell and that's what i figured it would to balance the K levels. I could however smell some stumps chicken. After a soil 15.6% percent K. Jeremy Silva is a joke and you should have seen his face when I threw a few simple things at him right over his head. That's why I cal it BaS...very small a.

Best part of the days was some bomb burgers at Smugglers bar and grill in T-ride.

 

[reppin2c]

No figgin edit I couldn't smell my nutes pretty sure he kept them

 

[Luther Burbank]

Holy shit, you've been here 4 years and you still don't have your 50 posts for edit/pm. That almost takes dedication to not get to.