Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[milkyjoe]

I figured that there is something special in there that makes it better than something you can make yourself. I want to get photomag, pepzyme, and sea shield for starters. I have products already to substitute for the other stuff till I run out and will buy the remaining products instead.

My first 3 choices are rejuv, photomag and sea shield...those are the biggest bang for the buck. Then the tainio stuff..then the rest imo.

It would be a hard choice between rejuv and photomag. There is something magical about rejuv...no matter what the story is.

 

[Bulldog420]

Trippin, I cut off the recommendations part of the soil report:

 

[Luther Burbank]

Those sulfur levels look huge, no? I don't know what's causing your high salt; biodynamics *is* a load of shit, but I've dealt with Bu's and it's generally high quality.

 

[Bulldog420]

What else would cause those high levels? How can I leech it out of the soil?

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Add spectrum extra from tainio if you have too much Na

 

[Bulldog420]

Add spectrum extra from tainio if you have too much Na

Not sure I want to lower my Na? It does look high but that would raise my K% lowering the Na%. I was thinking adding Cal/mg to up that % for sure. However, I value your advice highly. Edit: Trippin, I get confused with the scientific symbols, of course I want to lower the sodium.....Dumbass.....(me)

I just got off the phone with Dirty Soil, the people who did the tests, and the lady was saying my soil is actually pretty good. Sodium levels need to be dealt with, and she said a good 1tbs molasses per gal flush would help take care of that and up my Mg. She also said the sulfur levels (so4) with a organic potting medium isn't something to worry about????It is like 20 times the amount recommended, but she said sodium is my main problem ATM.

I also called Malibu compost and asked them if they had issues with sulfur and sodium. He did admit on occasion they do have high sodium, but was able to pull up the soil test done on my exact compost they had done before they sold it......medium high levels of sodium, low levels of sulfur. He convinced me on the quality of his product, they even log what the cows eat and he went into detail on all this.

Long story short, I have no idea where it came from, but it does't look like it came from the compost.

 

[CaliGabe]

Not sure I want to lower my Na?

High Na will displace more important goodies like just like K will. A friend in CO has basically the same soil mix in two segments of his garden. One patch is doing noticeably better and the main difference was Spectrum Extra for one spot and Spectrum in the other. Gary R was like...you've got Na in you're water...and the reason the Spectrum Extra patch is doing so much better.

If you go back through the Big Plant thread here I'm sure you'll find some posts by Tom about him monitoring sap Na levels and why that's important. He might have posted that info on another forum yet don't think so. I do remember chatting with him about adjusting the ORP value of teas with H2O2 yet he never finished that conversation.

 

[CaliGabe]

P.S. Pissed I spent extra money on "bio-dynamic" compost. Should have gone with diestel compost like boobs suggested.

Compost, like worm castings, is basically GIGO.

 

[Luther Burbank]

Cali, just saw your rep about high sulfur being good - but when the soil test suggests 70-200ppm and you're sitting at over 3000, that's a big difference! Not sure what the effect of that much will be, by molar weight that's something like 1000ppm pure sulfur.

My SeaShield came - it's enough to knock a buzzard off a shitwagon. Makes Neptune's Harvest and Alaska Fish smell like perfume. Hopefully it will do its job. What's y'alls application rates of SeaShield? Pamphlets were in the qt/acre measurement - I opted for 2T/1oz per gallon of foliar spray.

 

[Bulldog420]

Luther

I'm loving the result from every organic bottle at 1ml a gal with the exception of rejuvenate at 2. I apply this once a week lightly, just enough to dampen the surface of the soil. I then water this in with ph'd water to make sure I don't burn my plants and let it be absorbed by all the roots. Never seen my full season garden lookin so well.

I was told that someone has had great success using them all at 2ml per gal as well.

Dep garden is finsishing with my best yields and quality. The sales rep wasn't lying when he said the trichomes won't oxidize. 64 days and most trichs are clear, buds are still gaining considerable mass. Noticing a definite increase in essential oils and loudness.

I use 1oz per gallon of most the stuff you guys are listing 2 on Rejuv

That's based on 1 and 2 Qt per acre with 30 gal:acre as what it takes to cover 1 Ac

When I root drench monthly I use the same rates.

Most of this talk took place on page 7. Milky also posted up a veggie fertilizer recomandation amounts earlier in the thread. Hope this helps.

 

[Luther Burbank]

Yeah I spotted those before, but the problem is 1oz/gallon is equivalent to 29mL/gal - so that's a big discrepancy in strength. 1oz sounded more realistic, as 1mL would mean my $17 bottle of SeaShield would last me something like 3700gal of spray. I'll look back to find Milky's recommendations. I'm assuming those of you talking about 1mL/gal are talking about a more potent product from the AEA line.

 

[Bulldog420]

Ok, here is the game plan.

Looks like I need more cal/mg, but only slightly. I also need trace minerals and I need to lower the sodium levels.

To accomplish this I am going to fertigate and foliar with:

PHT Calcium
Photomag for trace minerals
Micropak for trace minerals
Pepzyme clear
Spectrum Extra however I have no idea how to apply.


Leave out:

Sea stim worried about salts
PHT Potassium because K levels are too high
Sea Crop because my boron is fine

Not sure about rejuvenate. All I hear are good things but it should up K, and it's derived from sea water and kelp which wont help my sodium problems. Not sure about sea shield either.

How would you apply Spectrum Extra to 400gal beds? It says 50 grams per acre, no idea what the means.

Any further advice would be great, thanks for all the help.

 

[Bulldog420]

Yeah I spotted those before, but the problem is 1oz/gallon is equivalent to 29mL/gal - so that's a big discrepancy in strength. 1oz sounded more realistic, as 1mL would mean my $17 bottle of SeaShield would last me something like 3700gal of spray. I'll look back to find Milky's recommendations. I'm assuming those of you talking about 1mL/gal are talking about a more potent product from the AEA line.

I did the math for milky's and here is what I came up with, double check me.

63.1-94.6 ml Hypercap per gal
31.5-47.3ml micropak per gal
.66-.99ml Micro5000 per gal
2.95-4.425ml pepzyme clear per gal
31.5-47.3ml sea shield per gal
15.75-23.65 ml Sea Stim per gal
31.5-47.3ml PHT potassium per gal
31.5-47.3ml PHT Calcuim per gal

(copy and pasted from my notes)

Correct me if I am wrong people but this is for a foliar spray, as to where the 1ml per gal recommendations were for fertigation???

 

[milkyjoe]

I am not familiar with that soil test but you need cation exchange % to make decisions. Albrecht ratios are:
Ca...68%
Mg...12%
K...3-5%
Na...1-3%

That soil looks like a fungal disease/insect attack waiting to happen. I hihhly reccomend logan labs or now aea for soil testing. The lab used obviously does not make reccomends on albrecht... no clue what those are based on.

Mehlich III for ph below 7 soils is the only test I would use

 

[Bulldog420]

Those labs were over 4 weeks out......

 

[Backyard Farmer]

You can just pay to get your results faster. That's what I do. They actually use the correct test so it's worth doing.

To figure out how much spectrum extra to use you can take an acre , which is 43,000 sq ft , and divide it by the number of sq footage of your beds , ie., if your beds are 25 sq ft and you have 100 of them , you have 2500 sq ft to cover which is 5% of an acre , so you can do 5% of 50 grams , which is 3 grams , in as much water as it will take to evenly cover all 100 beds.

Be sure to mix the Spectrum Extra in a bucket of water with nothing else in it and let it stand for a few minutes, then stir it up and mix it in. Applying with Rejuvenate really helps.

If you want to just blast them , put a quarter gram per gallon.

 

[DoubleDDsNuggs]

I did the math for milky's and here is what I came up with, double check me.

63.1-94.6 ml Hypercap per gal
31.5-47.3ml micropak per gal
.66-.99ml Micro5000 per gal
2.95-4.425ml pepzyme clear per gal
31.5-47.3ml sea shield per gal
15.75-23.65 ml Sea Stim per gal
31.5-47.3ml PHT potassium per gal
31.5-47.3ml PHT Calcuim per gal

(copy and pasted from my notes)

Correct me if I am wrong people but this is for a foliar spray, as to where the 1ml per gal recommendations were for fertigation???

thanks for doing this. I'm horrible at math and was trying to figure this out before work this morning.

Milky: Thank you for the recommendations!! I will get the rejuvenate and others you suggested for must haves.

For ordering a soil test, the Logan Labs has a basic and a saturated test. which one should I get? the basic test doesn't measure N which is what I'm most concerned with along with P.

I'm testing one batch that is 16 cuft and another one that is 31 cuft. how many samples should I send of each mix?

 

[milkyjoe]

I am on a phone right now but there is a formula for calculating total cation exchange capacity...maybe the brookside something or other. Or steve solomons worksheets have the formula on them. Problem is I don't know what method was used on those tests.

You might call jeremy at build a soil and work something out...he does lots of tests with logan...good guy.

But you need ca and micros in a big way. Both the sodium and potassium will combine with sulfates and leach out...especially if you are in pots that drain well.

Foliar the fuck out of albion ca if you can get it

 

[milkyjoe]

From logan either get the basic test...a mehlich III or the aea plus which is basic plus Si and a couple of others, maybe Co and Mo.

The saturated paste is what is water soluble. You first want to know what is on the cation exchange sites. The paste test tells you what your microbes are releasing...not a big issue in living soils

 

[DoubleDDsNuggs]

thanks! Last question for now, which place is best? I read someone had to wait a long time to get their test back. I can wait a week or two but a month is a little to long for my schedule.