Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[jidoka]

I definitely believe ultra micros are needed for enzymes...microbes and plants. I use basalt at $25 a yard in the soil.

Avoid sprays with insoluble stuff in them. The suspending agents make perfect mediums for yeast/mold growth.

Sea crop is ok. If you make room for K soluble seaweed is also excellent providing cytokinins along with ultras

 

[EasyGoing]

Looks good jidoka. What’s your take on sea stim these days~ have you found a more affordable seaweed spray / do you still recommend it with all foliars?

Easygoing- I have a decent chunk of sour patch kids from dark heart growing and I likely won’t grow it again. It’s a little to leafy and Larfy, not the best yield. Not very resistant to bud rot in high humidity conditions. I think dark heart added it because it clones easy and roots really fast.

How did they yield? I had like 6-10 little plants I flipped quick last spring, and they looked pathetic. However the nugs didn't shrink much, and were rocks. I think I yielded just under a pound, which was double than my estimate. The quality was really nice though. I am a sucker for the GSC dom strains.

 

[EasyGoing]

I definitely believe ultra micros are needed for enzymes...microbes and plants. I use basalt at $25 a yard in the soil.

Avoid sprays with insoluble stuff in them. The suspending agents make perfect mediums for yeast/mold growth.

Sea crop is ok. If you make room for K soluble seaweed is also excellent providing cytokinins along with ultras

Concerning foliars:
I still use MicroPak, or the formula at least. I added Mn and Cu on top of what MicroPak supplies. That, some kelp, aminos, albion Ca and Sea Shield ph'ed to 6.4-6.8 has been giving me really good results. Come 10 days before flower I pump the Ca, Sea Shield and lower the Kelp. Then flower comes and I pump the aminos, sea shield and kelp. My Mg is high cause of my water so I ignore that. Same with Fe from all the organics. P foliar I gave up on, so I try to accomplish that in the soil with lush volumes.

That is where I have kind of landed atm. Where are you at?

 

[jidoka]

Right now all my grows are coco so it is a little different.

I find, through tissue analysis, that I can get micros in through fertigation. I don't have to worry about oxidative states of metals so much. In soil I would spray micros.

I spray Biomin Ca at certain points in the life cycle. I have gone away from gypsum in fertigation as take up is not totally reliable for whatever reason.

I may have 20-30 strains in a room. So what I do is run slight luxury levels of Mg. That allows me to feed enough N for the light feeders and then I spray Ferti Nitro on the heavy feeders as needed. Because they have a little extra Mg available I get an instant response.

I can almost get all of my P through fert. I have tried spraying phosphoric acid but the fucking AN pH down is not consistent at all. I am fixing to run experiments with Rootwise Bio Phos to see if I can get it that way. If that does not work I will adjust N so I can use a little MAP

I am not currently using anything for ultra trace. Once I get everything else lined out I will go back and do an ofat with it to see if it pays for itself.

That is where I am at.

 

[EasyGoing]

That's a beautiful thing. Thanks for sharing.

 

[orechron]

Jidoka, you're able to run higher Mg in coco because it doesn't physically close up?

 

[jidoka]

Yes. Water runs right through it anyways. I water 6-12 x per day.

Is it ideal? Nope. But because I have to feed such a variety of strains some compromise is required. This is the best one I have found so far

Soil would be a different story

Edit...I run about 15% higher than ideal

 

[led05]

Yes. Water runs right through it anyways. I water 6-12 x per day.

Is it ideal? Nope. But because I have to feed such a variety of strains some compromise is required. This is the best one I have found so far

Soil would be a different story

Edit...I run about 15% higher than ideal

is it just water or w minerals too? what's the PPM the 6-12x's / day? how are you watering that, drippers? Thanks

 

[jidoka]

Fed every time. EC is 2.1...it sounds crazy high but trust me, you are forced to do it once balance is right. I can go yellow in 2 days with water only. Micro sprinklers or open 1/8 inch

 

[jidoka]

Led...you ever use an electrostatic sprayer for foliar?

 

[led05]

Led...you ever use an electrostatic sprayer for foliar?

I haven't, I'm farming less than an acre and believe my current method works quite well, my rigged up version is (I enjoy building new things, hobby more than work for me).

I use a 100 Gallon PTO Tank I can pull around on a cart which is then driven by a pond water sprinkler pump 1" line in, which is pumped into a 3/4" rubber garden hose and sprayed how I want by hand. Hose line is 100' so the cart doesn't need to move @ too much and this actually seems to almost be overkill for what I need. Everything is quick connect fittings too so all comes apart easily to move around, clean, break down etc.

I find with a simple old fashion Brass hose nozzle and a decent enough pump to create PSI I can get a fine enough mist to compare and my method delivers quicker and for me is easier to move around. Correct use of surfacants in my mix is a given

I mainly brew up my fertilizer mix and use a lot of tea too, also some chelated minerals but generally speaking my inputs are cheap so the benefit hasn't been there yet to switch over...

What have you found?

 

[jidoka]

https://victorycomplete.com/

I went to the Denver Indo Woo Expo. I saw one of these...it Root and Jeremy were the only things that did not make me sick. Anyways it looks awesome, but I don't want to be a victim of marketing so I am asking around

edit...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nUN-gfwH_g

 

[led05]

https://victorycomplete.com/

I went to the Denver Indo Woo Expo. I saw one of these...it Root and Jeremy were the only things that did not make me sick. Anyways it looks awesome, but I don't want to be a victim of marketing so I am asking around

edit...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nUN-gfwH_g

I'm pretty sure the concept started in painting / powder coating industry and has been around for some time in AG too, it's valid & certainly real - now the whom to buy from, I haven't done any research into this. I always look to buy something made / marketed for "other" industries and make it work, 90% of the time+ this is for a fraction of the cost and better build quality vs what you find marketed to the Canna space. Hopefully that BS will end sooner than later, we'll see, not holding my breath.


For me with cheap fertilizer inputs via my home built brewer (really just a lot of air and wastewater diffusers - no complicated vortex stuff) and fact I use a lot of teas based on what I have existing here (free) it doesn't really add up / make sense. I'm bias, what I have works well and I built it.


If the situation was more driven by having to buy more expensive inputs; well, it seems like a good investment to me from both a cost & likely time perspective.

Then again, do the toys or the farmer, make the farmer, or is it both

 

[jidoka]

No toys do not a farmer make. But hang around the weed industry and watch these young kids spray pesticides and you see a terrible job being done time after time...to the point you wonder are they trying to breed super mites on purpose. What has caught my attention is the wrap around effect. Seemingly impossible for even a "hemp temp" to do a bad job with this tech.

I have not done any math yet. I may need a volunteer to make the math even possible. $600 is half a pound for a vertically integrated business. I got that much in good will built up at a couple of places. Just don't want to piss it away on something really stupid.

Just letting it percolate in me brain right now.

Then again...if you have to spray something from Colorado's approved list take a wild guess what the prices of that shit is like. And yes, you can get to the point hydroponically where i don't need pesticides but one little slip and some stuff is back.

Anyways this choice is probably totally on me. Gotta hate that lol

 

[Absolem]

Fed every time. EC is 2.1...it sounds crazy high but trust me, you are forced to do it once balance is right. I can go yellow in 2 days with water only. Micro sprinklers or open 1/8 inch

Completely agree. Feed the coco to feed the plant.

 

[redlaser]

No toys do not a farmer make. But hang around the weed industry and watch these young kids spray pesticides and you see a terrible job being done time after time...to the point you wonder are they trying to breed super mites on purpose. What has caught my attention is the wrap around effect. Seemingly impossible for even a "hemp temp" to do a bad job with this tech.

I have not done any math yet. I may need a volunteer to make the math even possible. $600 is half a pound for a vertically integrated business. I got that much in good will built up at a couple of places. Just don't want to piss it away on something really stupid.

Just letting it percolate in me brain right now.

Then again...if you have to spray something from Colorado's approved list take a wild guess what the prices of that shit is like. And yes, you can get to the point hydroponically where i don't need pesticides but one little slip and some stuff is back.

Anyways this choice is probably totally on me. Gotta hate that lol

Yeah, I’m guessing they weren’t actually demonstrating that sprayer.
They seem to be implying that you don’t need to make much effort to spray the undersides of the leaves and “shadow” areas.

If it worked as advertised, would be worth it to get sulphur everywhere or other pesticide if needed, less product needed to spray. 600 though, be nice to see it work

 

[EasyGoing]

Fed every time. EC is 2.1...it sounds crazy high but trust me, you are forced to do it once balance is right. I can go yellow in 2 days with water only. Micro sprinklers or open 1/8 inch

It's crazy how much these plants eat when things are pumping.

 

[led05]

No toys do not a farmer make. But hang around the weed industry and watch these young kids spray pesticides and you see a terrible job being done time after time...to the point you wonder are they trying to breed super mites on purpose. What has caught my attention is the wrap around effect. Seemingly impossible for even a "hemp temp" to do a bad job with this tech.

I have not done any math yet. I may need a volunteer to make the math even possible. $600 is half a pound for a vertically integrated business. I got that much in good will built up at a couple of places. Just don't want to piss it away on something really stupid.

Just letting it percolate in me brain right now.

Then again...if you have to spray something from Colorado's approved list take a wild guess what the prices of that shit is like. And yes, you can get to the point hydroponically where i don't need pesticides but one little slip and some stuff is back.

Anyways this choice is probably totally on me. Gotta hate that lol

$600 doesn't seem like much, the ones I was looking at after you peaked my interest were in the thousands... My little toy costs more than that....

Pesticides & insecticides - yuck.... Too bad the youngins don't get that proper fertilization, some Teas and a little Hort oil as part of a IPM is all you really need, anymore, well.....

I envy the laws; the weather and climate even more out west. What I don't envy is the piss poor habits, bug outbreaks, terrible AG practices, overuse of many systemic pest/insecticides - shit no one should be eating or smoking, ever. Yet they do and love it..... Not really surprising when you watch what most people eat and where it comes from....

Reading accounts of people claiming to walk into dispensaries and smelling chem / pesticides... is that really true, seems far fetched?

Grow your own Food, smoke, shit, everything you can - it's only going to get worse BF better and food isn't getting cheaper when there's 15B people vs 8B which probably only going to take a few decades for worlds pop to double, yet again...

I think farming and farmers, perhaps more the home small farmer will become more prevalent again and respected due to this, if not out of want but more out of need, if you like quality that's for sure as its already the case...

oh, btw - there's a downside to these sprayers as well - they do coat everything they touch well, so that doesn't mean just plants.... I hate scrubbing / cleaning walls and nooks & crannies in GH's etc - this thing seemingly would make that job that much more difficult - outside who cares

 

[jidoka]

no systemics. just oils. teas are tough, in rec yeast is a fail, so you brew a hair long and you got trouble. no differentiation between good or bad. a lot tighter regs than food.

we tend to go months at a time with nutrition but then a screw up, normally somebody flushing for whatever reason and two spotted mites...again. positive pressure buildings do not seem to exist so they are everywhere all the time. gotta control that infrared.

bro science is the real issue. my advise is never hire someone that has grown before but that is use to hard work. go read the coco forum, you will see. or go to one of these shows and listen to some sales pitches...we could not last past lunch.

 

[led05]

bro science is the real issue. my advise is never hire someone that has grown before but that is use to hard work. go read the coco forum, you will see. or go to one of these shows and listen to some sales pitches...we could not last past lunch.

amen...