caterpillar710
Member
I heard about that around the campfire reppin2c , heard they periodically use some now
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Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science
- Thread starter FatherEarth
- Start date
TheOutlawTree
Active member
Damn... got a bunch of mic an mac on the way to get my starts through until planting time.
It seemed to work pretty well for me despite being off. I know Gary told me last spring to make sure I have extra K around, if supplementing plants with mic and mac- because it was 'nicely balanced stuff, but lacking K'. I would have thought AEA was doing these chem tests for every batch.
Where can i send in some samples of my a and b for a second analysis when I get them? Happy to contribute as long as its not really expensive
It seemed to work pretty well for me despite being off. I know Gary told me last spring to make sure I have extra K around, if supplementing plants with mic and mac- because it was 'nicely balanced stuff, but lacking K'. I would have thought AEA was doing these chem tests for every batch.
Where can i send in some samples of my a and b for a second analysis when I get them? Happy to contribute as long as its not really expensive
I made the switch to butter coffee, eggs and bacon myself.
I had custom hydroponic nutrients get the test for me. I would love to see another batch tested. Based on that bacteria problem I can't see quality control being a big priority around there
I started to suspect this kind of shit when they told me sea shield was 5% Ca. And then PacificGro put typical chemical analysis on their web page.
Anyways...if you were in a light soil last yr and had decent results I would just collect some of that, bring it indo to warm up, maybe give it a touch of gypsum and ammonium phosphate and let it rip. I would immediately start spraying micro 5000...getting a strong leaf biome going sets you up for lots of good things
I had custom hydroponic nutrients get the test for me. I would love to see another batch tested. Based on that bacteria problem I can't see quality control being a big priority around there
I started to suspect this kind of shit when they told me sea shield was 5% Ca. And then PacificGro put typical chemical analysis on their web page.
Anyways...if you were in a light soil last yr and had decent results I would just collect some of that, bring it indo to warm up, maybe give it a touch of gypsum and ammonium phosphate and let it rip. I would immediately start spraying micro 5000...getting a strong leaf biome going sets you up for lots of good things
plantingplants
Active member
Jidoka, Avenger's sig link puts vansil at 3.6% plant available Si. How do you calculate soil test Si ppm when adding vansil? I want to replace caco3 in mix but dont want to overdo it on Si
This one may get fun. You say that like you know what would be overdoing it on Si...do tell?
No, for real, I don't know that yet. It is my understanding unless something goes into solution it ain't plant available anyways. It is further my belief that Si is self limiting in soln. So far as I am concerned no such thing as too much Si....definitely too much Ca which I believe is the limiting factor.
But....hopefully Avenger will chime in. I count on him to catch me when I go completely off the fucking rails.
I continue to follow Tainio for anything other than fun experiments. Any pH below 6.5 I use Ca Silicate period. Between 6.5 and 7 I use 50/50 silicate/gypsum. And if I somehow entirely lose my mutherfucking mind and go above 7 then I use only gypsum
No, for real, I don't know that yet. It is my understanding unless something goes into solution it ain't plant available anyways. It is further my belief that Si is self limiting in soln. So far as I am concerned no such thing as too much Si....definitely too much Ca which I believe is the limiting factor.
But....hopefully Avenger will chime in. I count on him to catch me when I go completely off the fucking rails.
I continue to follow Tainio for anything other than fun experiments. Any pH below 6.5 I use Ca Silicate period. Between 6.5 and 7 I use 50/50 silicate/gypsum. And if I somehow entirely lose my mutherfucking mind and go above 7 then I use only gypsum
TheOutlawTree
Active member
I will contact custom hydroponics and get some of my a and b tested once it arrives
I got a whole IBC tote of pacificgro coming this way, should be here by April.
The only other thing of AEA's that I still use is SeaStim. Happen to know where they source that?
I got really tired of the exploding bottles. It happened really bad to me, probably cuz I'm at 7000' and even potato chip bags sealed at sea level explode up here. But I had an order of SeaStim that exploded in the box, in my mailbox. I opened my mailbox and saw a green slime and smelled a strong smell of seaweed. The first time it happened, they gladly replaced the bottle, but then it happened at least 2 more times and they didn't want to keep sending me free shit. Another time, I had trimmers working and I ran to town. When I came back, the wall behind my nute shelf was black and the floor was covered with sawdust. Turns out a new full bottle of Photomag blew up, and my workers saw how black it was and thought it was motor oil or something, and then just made even more of a mess with sawdust. Pretty sure the drywall is still stained from that. AEA didn't want to replace it because they said that should never happen to Photomag, but I had been burping the bottle for a few days prior, and when it finally blew, the cap actually broke apart. That was the last time I bought photomag and I just started making it myself after that, with or without epsom depending on need for Mg.
I haven't used Micropak or micro5000 ever honestly. Between foliars of Albion Ca, B, Mn, Zn, and their Multi, and I still foliar all those cheap terrible EDTA micros in veg (cheap and easy), I seem to be covered on micros.
Isn't micro5000 just trace sulfates and enzymes in an acid solution?
The only other thing of AEA's that I still use is SeaStim. Happen to know where they source that?
I got really tired of the exploding bottles. It happened really bad to me, probably cuz I'm at 7000' and even potato chip bags sealed at sea level explode up here. But I had an order of SeaStim that exploded in the box, in my mailbox. I opened my mailbox and saw a green slime and smelled a strong smell of seaweed. The first time it happened, they gladly replaced the bottle, but then it happened at least 2 more times and they didn't want to keep sending me free shit. Another time, I had trimmers working and I ran to town. When I came back, the wall behind my nute shelf was black and the floor was covered with sawdust. Turns out a new full bottle of Photomag blew up, and my workers saw how black it was and thought it was motor oil or something, and then just made even more of a mess with sawdust. Pretty sure the drywall is still stained from that. AEA didn't want to replace it because they said that should never happen to Photomag, but I had been burping the bottle for a few days prior, and when it finally blew, the cap actually broke apart. That was the last time I bought photomag and I just started making it myself after that, with or without epsom depending on need for Mg.
I haven't used Micropak or micro5000 ever honestly. Between foliars of Albion Ca, B, Mn, Zn, and their Multi, and I still foliar all those cheap terrible EDTA micros in veg (cheap and easy), I seem to be covered on micros.
Isn't micro5000 just trace sulfates and enzymes in an acid solution?
HappyTreeFarm
Member
In a P base? the Label is 0-0-15 derived from kelp plus microbes
can you Plz explain more
http://tainio.com/userfiles/file/Micro_5000.pdf
Give Dennis or the lab a call. I cannot do the explanation justice. These guys are well above my pay grade.
Give Dennis or the lab a call. I cannot do the explanation justice. These guys are well above my pay grade.
led05
Chasing The Present
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Originally Posted by plantingplants
Cat, I'm curious what angle you are coming from? Is it to limit competition as long as you can?
How much competition is there if most growers can't even grow a crop that test clean for mold and pesticides? Not much.
How large of a role do you feel your research and trade secrets will play in keeping your business competitive in the future?
I feel like the skill set I've developed over the last 10+ years of doing this is the reason why I have been and remain competitive regardless of price fluctuations or bad decisions, of which I've made a few...I don't feel like giving every one the answer to the test any more. I've contributed so much of that freely and openly to the most ungrateful audience possible that there's just no motivation to help at all at this point
Just curious. Curious about jidoka's answer, too.
[/FONT]
I think more people appreciate what is shared in all these forums than may be apparent, but also some of the ones sharing aren't exactly the one all and be all of it as they clearly seem to think they are...
I'll leave with a real farmers quote:
"What Business man, except a soil worker, will stop and talk with a stranger? Who but a farmer or fruit grower or gardener will tell of his experience so fully, so freely, and so entirely without hope of gain? Who else will so frankly reveal his business secrets for the benefits of his fellows? Who else so clearly recognizes the fact that the world is large enough for all mankind?"
The illegality of this plant and Draconian laws still in place across so much of this world seem to drive people to fear, rightfully so but also seems a lot of greed and selfishness is flying around as well
Cat, I'm curious what angle you are coming from? Is it to limit competition as long as you can?
How much competition is there if most growers can't even grow a crop that test clean for mold and pesticides? Not much.
How large of a role do you feel your research and trade secrets will play in keeping your business competitive in the future?
I feel like the skill set I've developed over the last 10+ years of doing this is the reason why I have been and remain competitive regardless of price fluctuations or bad decisions, of which I've made a few...I don't feel like giving every one the answer to the test any more. I've contributed so much of that freely and openly to the most ungrateful audience possible that there's just no motivation to help at all at this point
Just curious. Curious about jidoka's answer, too.
[/FONT]
I think more people appreciate what is shared in all these forums than may be apparent, but also some of the ones sharing aren't exactly the one all and be all of it as they clearly seem to think they are...
I'll leave with a real farmers quote:
"What Business man, except a soil worker, will stop and talk with a stranger? Who but a farmer or fruit grower or gardener will tell of his experience so fully, so freely, and so entirely without hope of gain? Who else will so frankly reveal his business secrets for the benefits of his fellows? Who else so clearly recognizes the fact that the world is large enough for all mankind?"
The illegality of this plant and Draconian laws still in place across so much of this world seem to drive people to fear, rightfully so but also seems a lot of greed and selfishness is flying around as well
HazyBulldog
Member
lol. Funny, you and your crew flamed me for coming to the same conclusions...... Jokers. Took me WAY LESS time though,
.lol. Funny, you and your crew flamed me for coming to the same conclusions...... Jokers. Took me WAY LESS time though,
Kempf being Kempf.... hahaha Hard to buddy up to a woowoo juice "monster"... which is what some of his ex partners called him....
HappyTreeFarm
Member
o i see, I'm using the organic Mirco5000 http://www.tainio.com/userfiles/file/Micro_5000_Organic.pdf
different formulation. Ive talked with the crew over there at tainio before amazing the knowledge those guys have. i got a lesson on inoculates
leadsled
Member
Here is the breakdown.
deficit in lbs / percentage of element
100 lbs per acre of Silicon is 50 ppm.
100 lbs/ac / 3.6% Si02
100 / 3.6% = 2777
2777 lb/ac Vansil would add 100lb/ac of Si02. With a target of 50ppm silicon.
The calcium in Vansil is Calcium Oxide. (CaO) Information on CHN states 34% calcium.
Based on that math, then the above rate of vansil (2777lb/ac) would add 944 lb/ac of calcium.
That is all provided your soil has the CEC to adsorb / hold the minerals.
TCEC of 20.
Calcium.
20 x 400 x target saturation percentage.
60% base saturation = 4800 lb/ac calcium
68% base saturation = 5440 lb/ac calcium
70% base saturation = 5600 lb/ac calcium.
HappyTreeFarm
Member
Here is the breakdown.
deficit in lbs / percentage of element
100 lbs per acre of Silicon is 50 ppm.
100 lbs/ac / 3.6% Si02
100 / 3.6% = 2777
2777 lb/ac Vansil would add 100lb/ac of Si02. With a target of 50ppm silicon.
The calcium in Vansil is Calcium Oxide. (CaO) Information on CHN states 34% calcium.
Based on that math, then the above rate of vansil (2777lb/ac) would add 944 lb/ac of calcium.
That is all provided your soil has the CEC to adsorb / hold the minerals.
TCEC of 20.
Calcium.
20 x 400 x target saturation percentage.
60% base saturation = 4800 lb/ac calcium
68% base saturation = 5440 lb/ac calcium
70% base saturation = 5600 lb/ac calcium.
So 3.6% is Soluble. but 24% silicon in vansil. won't the other 20+% become available over time? is that locked up in the soil indefinitely? just curious if its appropriate the do the math based on available now vs. what "will" breakdown. insights will be helpful on this one
That will depend on your source water, microbial population, and root exudates. In alkaline soil, that Si won't move much.
HazyBulldog
Member
Talked to the pacific grow guy and ordered up a 275 gallon tote. He was saying there is zero difference between the AEA product and PG. Last year they fixed a milling machine that wasn't putting out 200 mesh product. I told the rep I put an AEA sea shield bottle next to a pacific grow container and the pacific grow was much thinner. He said that batch must of been new, and had the new micron size milled properly. He also told me they relabeled the NPK ratios, and AEA still has the old NPK which is why things are labeled differently.
Just an FYI.
He also laughed about the nutrient IED's that AEA sends out. Told me it's big news in the industry, and it hurt AEA big time. You mean "I think your order just didn't get the right tops" didn't fly? No kidding!!!
Just an FYI.
He also laughed about the nutrient IED's that AEA sends out. Told me it's big news in the industry, and it hurt AEA big time. You mean "I think your order just didn't get the right tops" didn't fly? No kidding!!!
