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Advanced Nutrients is a horrible brand
- Thread starter AGrow
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THC_Decapitator
bloombastic sure aint cheap . I got a sample also , but I will never purchase a bottle . Its even more $ then the AN booster products .
I like big bud its only 37$ for a liter and it lasts a long time .
Kool-bloom powder is great also I got some .
I was using half kool-bloom powder and half big bud liquid , and my colas where huge .
I like big bud its only 37$ for a liter and it lasts a long time .
Kool-bloom powder is great also I got some .
I was using half kool-bloom powder and half big bud liquid , and my colas where huge .
Theres a little more to the science of the "salt" being used. Maybe forms of chelation and the type of mineral\salt being used. Lets not just beg to differ on one item. Give a run down on what you think is the same as advanced and then compile all the ingredients and the way they are chelated for me and what not. These arguments are becoming more half assed as this thread goes on. Something to say but nothing to prove
And talking about greenhouses, ive never heard of a supermarket
vegetable connisuer? or one that gos and looks for the best tulips. Gimme a break, ofcourse greenhouses use the cheapest and most inferior products if they are into mass production. Less expenses, more gain. You ever go out and compare cucumbers? I just want to say the 2 are no comparison to eachother. So leave the greenhouse crap in its appropriate forums
edit : and if you have worked in these places, you yourself would know this
What do any of you PRO AN Users know about the actual ferts, ammendments, beneficials, growth hormones, humics, carbs, enhancers, boosters, innoculants, enzymes etc. How does stacking multiple NPKs and a shit ton of nitrates going to help you? The most expensive ingredient to ANs bottles is the label. Even voodoo juice @ $100 a liter! I been using that shit since before it was called AN.. It was called 8 Weeks and the bottes were white bottles numbered 1-7. They didn't crack, bulge or drip, there were no instructions & it was pretty good stuff. No better than 1 part SBB powder, or supernats 20-20-20, or GH 3 part, nutrilfe, triflex, PBP, DM, etc. If your not getting the flavor your looking for, flush longer. Find new genes. It's quite simple. I'm not hating, I'm trying to help you.
Dont understand what you mean by stacking NPK's or with the nitrates. But i dont think your being quite honest yourself. In some posts you state you use this n that from advanced, and in others you state crap about stacking npk's and soo many nitrates, well i dont get you? because not everyone buys a bottle and does what it says on the label, or am i wrong? or do you maybe mean something different? little stoned after a hard days work
please inform yourself before giving such lame statements
You know what? You're right, keep buying your overpriced additives.
I'll keep doing my thing and growing better quality for less money.
greenatik
Member
first of all.. rooters... that factory hole is the culprit not advanced. cloning success is determined by a few factors = humidity, temps... and no not additives or cloning gel, but CONTACT WITH THE MEDIUM. turn the rooter over. make ur own small hole, put cut it and dont fucking touch them. except to mist dome and give em fresh air.
i stopped using cloning gels and get better results and faster cloning times.. 7 days max
now about advanced... well every company has their overpriced additives. but i'm all about the cheapest to get the best. i use advanced 3 part (just micro/bloom) rez formula because its CHEAPER then GH flora..
like people have said operator error.....
i stopped using cloning gels and get better results and faster cloning times.. 7 days max
now about advanced... well every company has their overpriced additives. but i'm all about the cheapest to get the best. i use advanced 3 part (just micro/bloom) rez formula because its CHEAPER then GH flora..
like people have said operator error.....
Castelvetro
Member
its all the same things, chems are chems, organi is organi, miracle grow is an with diff npks.
the plants gets the ions not the advertiseing campain-
some of u live n breath the hobby mentality and there are nute compaines out there that cater to this , enjoy them. its all good.
the plants gets the ions not the advertiseing campain-
some of u live n breath the hobby mentality and there are nute compaines out there that cater to this , enjoy them. its all good.
why do you say that? I dont find them too expensive, toohigh says something about a liter of voodoo at 100$. well that'd be about 70 euros, i only pay 35 euros.
Advanced M-G-B 1 liter all cost 6 euro, about 4 dollars and 50 cents.
I beg to differ
Randybobandy
Member
monopatassium phosphate is monopotassium phosphate
The only difference is the ratios, more additives like mag or b-1,
and the main difference-The Container
All the companies take advantage of the consumer by
way of their ignorance. Some just do really well. Like AN.
I'll give them that much. Those russian mobsters know how
to market the fuck out of something. I remember the first time I
saw a AN bottle I laughed so so hard. It was enjoyable. I heard the
price and laughed harder. One of the reasons I laughed was because I
KNEW people would buy it. Youd see people come in and look at the
container like it was liquid gold. They remind me of butters from
south park. And cartman is the owner of AN.
Andvanced Nutreints home of the $1000 res.
I only talk so much smack about them because they rip people off.
Nice people with good intentions-like butters.
The only difference is the ratios, more additives like mag or b-1,
and the main difference-The Container
All the companies take advantage of the consumer by
way of their ignorance. Some just do really well. Like AN.
I'll give them that much. Those russian mobsters know how
to market the fuck out of something. I remember the first time I
saw a AN bottle I laughed so so hard. It was enjoyable. I heard the
price and laughed harder. One of the reasons I laughed was because I
KNEW people would buy it. Youd see people come in and look at the
container like it was liquid gold. They remind me of butters from
south park. And cartman is the owner of AN.
Andvanced Nutreints home of the $1000 res.
I only talk so much smack about them because they rip people off.
Nice people with good intentions-like butters.
so everyone uses the same chelators? and more chelators per salt molecule, and who has more available forms of micro nutrients then "most" companies
Randybobandy
Member
Available forms. If you can't keep your ph in check because of what you loaded your res with or you don't know what your doing then yes it would be better to have more "availabe" micro nutrients. But if you know how to create and sustain an optimal enviroment then no you don't need them to uptake at differnt enviroments because you system is running at optimal efficiency.
"so everyone uses the same chelators? and more chelators per salt molecule, and who has more available forms of micro nutrients then "most" companies"
What chelators do they (Advanced) use and how many chelators per salt molecule?
"so everyone uses the same chelators? and more chelators per salt molecule, and who has more available forms of micro nutrients then "most" companies"
What chelators do they (Advanced) use and how many chelators per salt molecule?
My objection was to your attitude, asserting that I came in here uninformed and was spewing misinformation. I take hearty offense to that, having run AN nutrients through MANY crops and probably on a much larger scale than you.
In other words, watch who you call misinformed.
Randybobandy
Member
Word
Word bro..
Sorry my attitude was a reaction to your misinformation, if cynical or not still completely false
but all you say doesnt matter to me, because we all can say quite a bit, i was just going by your misinformation of bud candy being mollases.. sounds uninformed to me, i only call it how i see it
On large scales i would not run AN, there I am all about profit and run HESI. And where Im from its not for Medical users, its for tourists(know what im talkign about? probably not.) what i would grow for personal I will only run AN but will say HESI, DM and H&G arent bad ..
Now, I have to give you all props for diving into the science of growing. I've never gotten any further than reading a few books, shaking my head, and just using what works.
I think this is sort of like the debate on nature versus nurture, the chicken or the egg, etc.
Some people swear by science and I swear by what works for me. Maybe it's time to dive into a biology book as it really does sound like everyone's done their homework. ANd maybe i need to get back to school.
it's a good debate, though i'm not quite convinced there's an answer anyone is every going to come to. And does it really matter?
But then again, Advanced Nutrients works for me, and that's really all that matters in my book. And I'm totally not trying to convert anyone. If people like other nutes, cool beans to me. I'm only smokin what i'm growing, you know?
I think this is sort of like the debate on nature versus nurture, the chicken or the egg, etc.
Some people swear by science and I swear by what works for me. Maybe it's time to dive into a biology book as it really does sound like everyone's done their homework. ANd maybe i need to get back to school.
it's a good debate, though i'm not quite convinced there's an answer anyone is every going to come to. And does it really matter?
But then again, Advanced Nutrients works for me, and that's really all that matters in my book. And I'm totally not trying to convert anyone. If people like other nutes, cool beans to me. I'm only smokin what i'm growing, you know?
Word bro..
Sorry my attitude was a reaction to your misinformation, if cynical or not still completely false
but all you say doesnt matter to me, because we all can say quite a bit, i was just going by your misinformation of bud candy being mollases.. sounds uninformed to me, i only call it how i see it
On large scales i would not run AN, there I am all about profit and run HESI. And where Im from its not for Medical users, its for tourists(know what im talkign about? probably not.) what i would grow for personal I will only run AN but will say HESI, DM and H&G arent bad ..
Really, have to smelled or tasted Bud Candy? I have. It tastes and smells like molasses, which is 1/20th the price of AN Bud Candy. I'm sure there is a little more in it, but it's pretty clear from its characteristics that it is PRIMARILY molasses!
Sure I know you, you're a new grower in Amsterdam, doing a small personal crop. 90% of your posts on this board have been in this thread alone.
I don't believe your advice when it comes to nutes, because you haven't been doing it for long enough to have formed opinions on what works vs what doesn't. Do some side by side crops with a control and then come tell us what yields the most frosty nugs.
Until then, opinions are like assholes, most of them stink.
First off i grow in soil, and i know very well what goes into my soil, second "yoda" what you have stated is not false, but when i am dialled in my plants use all the various available micronutrients in a more available manner which assist in accelerated growth, but there is a diff between hydro and soil.. in hydro, a pH drift is a very good thing indeed, that allows the non metallic nutrients be absorbed in there respective pH sweet spots and the chelated nutrients will always be available to keep up with the increase of various nutrients in this pH drift ... on and on ...
quote :
Plants are continually scavenging for nutrients; this is especially true for phosphorus and metallic micronutrients. So plants have evolved many mechanisms to pull nutrients into their cells. One very successful strategy is for plants to make their own chelators which they secrete into the soil and that they can use internally to transport nutrients between tissues.
We can find many examples in the scientific literature on chelators used by plants. For example in the journal called Genetic and Molecular Biology, vol.24 (2001) in a review article called 'Identifying sugarcane expressed sequences associated with nutrient transporters and peptide metal chelators' researchers describe the role of these important molecules in providing balanced nutritional inputs for crops and that also enable plants to detoxify themselves if growing in contaminated soils:
'Nutrient uptake by plants is an active process, requiring energy to accumulate essential elements at levels in plant tissues above concentrations found in the soil solution while, conversely, elevated concentrations of essential nutrients or the presence of toxic elements require active efflux systems and/or detoxification mechanisms to minimize the accumulation of ions.'
However although plants will spend energy to uptake nutrients, the job of simply finding nutrients that can be absorbed is sometimes very difficult. This is why Advanced Nutrients has formulated SensiGrow and SensiBloom to include multiple forms of chelated micronutrients; these are an assured way of 'spoon-feeding' micronutrients to plants.
In the soil nutrients are usually bound to soil particles and will cross-reacting preventing solubility and uptake. Although plants are sessile, they will be as 'molecularly active' as possible to both absorb nutrients and handle absorbed toxic metals like cadmium or toxic levels of metallic contaminants.
The basic mechanism for accumulating nutrients inside cells is to 'pump' protons (H+) outside the cell, creating a positive charge there. This forms a 'membrane potential' which is a small voltage difference between the inside and outside of the cell. This potential 'discharges' it self which enables nutrients to be transported back into the cell through various energy-consuming 'pores' and transport proteins. The scientists continue to describe how plants uptake nutrients:
'The transport of ions across the cell membrane is based on an active efflux of protons which results in a pH gradient and/or a membrane potential which drives the movement of nutrients via carriers or channels (Hirsch and Sussman, 1999). Plants have evolved systems to maintain a controlled intracellular ion homeostasis.'
This ability to accumulate nutrients leads to a concentration difference that is one thousand fold higher inside cells, and requires an active expenditure of energy. To uptake nutrients, plants cells form a pH gradient by actively 'pumping' protons out of the cell. This investment of energy to uptake nutrients is even higher in the case of micronutrients requiring chelators to be absorbed and transported around the plant.
The issues facing plants for the uptake of metallic micronutrients are discussed next by the scientists studying sugarcane;
'Acquisition of micronutrients by plants is complicated by the limited availability of metal cations in the soil, where they have low solubility and tend to form metallo-organic complexes (Kochian, 2000). Iron is predominantly found in soils in its oxidized ferric (Fe+3) form, which is extremely insoluble at neutral or basic pH. Reduced ferrous iron (Fe+2) is considerably more soluble but is readily oxidized to the ferric form under aerobic conditions.'
Advanced Nutrients has formulated SensiGrow and SensiBloom to contain four types of chelated iron ! This is because the micronutrient is vital for so many functions in plants and microbial cells. Our discussion here will revolve mostly around iron as a prime example of micronutrient acquisition by plants.
But all the metallic micronutrients are also potentially hazardous to plants if they are allowed to react with oxygen. Chelation is one way plants keep micronutrients in a safe, useable and transportable form, as the scientists explain;
''some metal cations (e.g. such as zinc, copper, iron and manganese) are essential micronutrients for plants because they are required co-factors in many enzymatic systems. Micronutrient cations are highly reactive, potentially promoting the formation of active oxygen forms and uptake and transport must be maintained within limits to avoid oxidative cellular damage.'
The scientists reviewing micronutrient chelation continue to describe iron uptake by plants and define two strategies:
'Plants use two strategies to acquire iron (Hirsch and Sussman, 1999). One iron-acquisition strategy (strategy I), used by most dicotyledonous and non-gramineous monocotyledonous plants, depends on the solubilisation of ferric iron by the release of protons and organic acids, which acidify the rhizosphere, followed by the action of ferric-chelate reductase, and the reduced ferrous form is then taken into the plant by a specific transporter protein.'
This first strategy first converts un-absorbable Fe 3+ iron to a useable Fe 2+ form before the root cells absorb the element. It requires the work of secreting H+ to acidify the soil near root cells, and then the action of an enzyme called ferric-chelate-reductase that temporarily chelates Fe 3+ and converts it to Fe 2+ which can be pulled into the plant.
The second method plants use to uptake micronutrients such as iron involves the secretion of large chelator molecules;
'An alternative iron-acquisition strategy (strategy II), adopted by grasses, depends on the release of a small peptide-like iron chelator, mugeneic acid (MA, also called phytosiderophore) to chelate ferric iron. The MA-Fe+3-complex is then absorbed by a specific transporter protein into the plant.'
So all micronutrient uptake by plants involves chelation. Both outside and inside plants micro nutrients are transported in a chelated form.
To ensure plants never struggle to find absorbable micronutrients Advanced Nutrients formulation of SensiGrow and SensiBloom we have included multiple forms of chelated micronutrients. Each Micronutrient is present in either 2 or 4 forms, each with different chelator.
In the case of iron, we have used four types of chelators! These involve conventional chelators such as ethylene diamine tetra acetate (EDTA) and we also use a form of peptide-chelated Iron. These forms of chelated iron maintain iron atoms in the reduced, 'ferrous' or Fe2+ state, avoiding the oxidation to Fe3+ or 'ferric' iron. This affords your plants a copious supply of reduced iron in solution all the time over a wide range of pH.
Scientists have shown that roots will synthesize large iron transport proteins in root cells when iron is deficient in the plant. We now can identify the genes that code for these transport proteins (IRT1 or FRO2). These genes code for large molecules that are to be embedded in cell membranes, and their transcription or 'reading' represents a huge investment of energy to make. But plant roots will go further, and synthesize and secrete other chelating molecules like 'mugeneic acid' a type of 'phytosiderophore' to capture more iron for uptake:
So just to get iron into an absorbable form, plants synthesize 'phytosiderophore' from their resources, and then secrete them into the soil-solution where they will find iron as Fe2+ and chelate it. After that more energy is spent on transporting the chelated iron into the root cells. Scientists have identified the genes for phytosiderophores, and can now create transgenic plants that have these traits for active nutrient absorption that is markedly enhanced.
Once micronutrients are transported inside the plant cells, there are a further class of molecules involved in maintaining micronutrients in a protected form as intracellular chelators called 'cation diffusion factors, or CDF:
'The distribution of Zn into intracellular compartments depends on another family of metal transporters, the Cation Diffusion Facilitator (CDF) family, which has been identified in various eukaryotes, including yeasts and mammals (Guerinot and Eide, 1999). A homologue to mammalian CDF genes was identified in Arabidopsis (Rock Cress plants)' and it might be associated with vacuolar sequestration of Zn (van der Zaal et al., 1999).'
Plants are constantly working and even scrounging the rhizosphere for micronutrients to chelate and absorb; they attempt to solubilize metallic micronutrients, and then chelate them for uptake. Once uptaken by root cells, these are both stored and carried all around the plant in a chelated form.
The lack of a certain micronutrient in the soil spurs plants to spend their resources on making more peptide chelators and more transport proteins. This deliberate and constant effort to obtain metallic nutrients is why SensiGrow and SensiBloom have copious amounts of chelators present, holding all micronutrients in optimal concentrations and ratios for plants. This assists in nutrient uptake reducing the energy plants have to spend on being able to nourish themselves.
Interestingly the methods plants have to detoxify themselves also involve the use of specially synthesized chelators that strongly bind the toxic metals; they form a metal-ligand complex that is stored away from all other cellular processes inside vacuoles. Toxicities can arise if too much metallic nutrients are present (in mine tailings for example), or if plants are growing in soils contaminated with heavy metals. The scientists cited above also describe this detoxifying mechanism that involves the synthesis of peptides called 'phytochelatins':
'A general mechanism for metal detoxification in plants includes chelation of metal by a ligand, often followed by compartmentalization of the metal-ligand complex .... Plants contain two major metal peptide chelators, phytochelatin (PC) and metallothionein (MT), that utilize coordination of metals by cysteine residues ... Phytochelatins are enzymatically synthesized polypeptides consisting of γ-glutamylcysteine repetitions (i.e. (γ-Glu-Cys)n-Gly, where n = 2 to 11) with a terminal glycine ... Phytochelatins appear to be ubiquitous in plants and have been detected in some micro organisms.'
Advanced Nutrients use of 'redundant' chelation in SensiGrow and SensiBloom, involving conventional chelators such as EDTA, DPTA and peptide chelators for each metallic micronutrient, provides an 'elixir' of nutrition for your plants.
With SensiGrow and SensiBloom, micronutrient chelation in your reservoir will be maintained over a wide range of pH. The redundant chelation we employ enables micronutrients to remain soluble in the extreme concentration of nutrients found in our formulations. When you dilute SensiGrow ands SensiBloom into your fertigation system, roots will find all micronutrients are immediately available, and chelated for absorption, enabling all resources to be put towards uninhibited growth. "
Enough of the BS, any of you live in the Amsterdam area? I would gladly sit with you in a shop and we smoke eachothers dope( just those that are currently involved somehow
, then we will go hang out, because in the end, I say this and you say that, but its pretty damn hard to prove, and both sides arent proving much, haha stoners eh? and in the end, big deal, everyone always says they grow this and that but no one grows the sameTheres a lot more science behind it then we all will ever actually know, one reference can contradict the other... so quit acting like we know it all !! grow with yours ill grow with mine, only thing ican do is let you smoke mine so you can finally know mine is better and with AN
I think An would say " get off my nuts"
Wow!
Nice of ya. Thanks for blowing my cover.
Sucks Im a new grower in Amsterdam doing a small personal crop with 90% of my posts in this thread.
Dont believe my advice or whatever else. I wasnt giving you any. i have nothing to prove, so if thats my situation as you see it, so be it.
Have a great Day
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