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Advanced Foliar Techniques Explored

Pod Racer

Member
I suppose this is a good place to post this

I suppose this is a good place to post this

Macronutrients

Nitrogen is a major component of proteins, hormones, chlorophyll, vitamins and enzymes essential for plant life. Nitrogen metabolism is a major factor in stem and leaf growth (vegetative growth). Too much can delay flowering and fruiting. Deficiencies can reduce yields, cause yellowing of the leaves and stunt growth.

Ratio between 2 forms of N (NO3:NH4) Best ratio of NO3-N (Nitrate) Vs. NH4-N (Ammoniacal) in any liquid fert is 9:1 as most of the N taken by the plant is in a nitrate form and a very small portion is taken up in an Ammoniacal form.

Secondly...ferts with higher NH4-N can reduce volume of the total plant growth. In general those plants will produce smaller darker green foliage compared to higher NO3-N ferts.

This is due to N form effects on photosynthesis and N assimilation as NH4-N must be immediately used in a process requiring carbos (the sugars you are trying to produce) and without sufficient levels of carbos free NH4-N can be toxic to plants. While on the other hand when NO3-N is taken up it is reduced to NH3 and assimilated into amino acid. If sufficient carobs are not available then the NO3-N is stored in the vacuoles (storage house for salts used to build up osmotic pressure) of the cell until carbos are available. Which means NO3-N will never tie up available carbos (sugars) at the expense of the plant's growth.

Phosphorus is necessary for seed germination, photosynthesis, protein formation and almost all aspects of growth and metabolism in plants. It is essential for flower and fruit formation. Low pH (<4) results in phosphate being chemically locked up in organic soils. Deficiency symptoms are purple stems and leaves; maturity and growth are retarded. Yields of fruit and flowers are poor. Premature drop of fruits and flowers may often occur. Phosphorus must be applied close to the plant's roots in order for the plant to utilize it. Large applications of phosphorus without adequate levels of zinc can cause a zinc deficiency.

Potassium is necessary for formation of sugars, starches, carbohydrates, protein synthesis and cell division in roots and other parts of the plant. It helps to adjust water balance, improves stem rigidity and cold hardiness, enhances flavor and color on fruit and vegetable crops, increases the oil content of fruits and is important for leafy crops. Deficiencies result in low yields, mottled, spotted or curled leaves, scorched or burned look to leaves..

Sulfur is a structural component of amino acids, proteins, vitamins and enzymes and is essential to produce chlorophyll. It imparts flavor to many vegetables. Deficiencies show as light green leaves. Sulfur is readily lost by leaching from soils and should be applied with a nutrient formula. Some water supplies may contain Sulfur.

Magnesium is a critical structural component of the chlorophyll molecule and is necessary for functioning of plant enzymes to produce carbohydrates, sugars and fats. It is used for fruit and nut formation and essential for germination of seeds. Deficient plants appear chlorotic, show yellowing between veins of older leaves; leaves may droop. Magnesium is leached by watering and must be supplied when feeding. It can be applied as a foliar spray to correct deficiencies.

Calcium activates enzymes, is a structural component of cell walls, influences water movement in cells and is necessary for cell growth and division. Some plants must have calcium to take up nitrogen and other minerals. Calcium is easily leached. Calcium, once deposited in plant tissue, is immobile (non-translocatable) so there must be a constant supply for growth. Deficiency causes stunting of new growth in stems, flowers and roots. Symptoms range from distorted new growth to black spots on leaves and fruit. Yellow leaf margins may also appear.

Interesting FYI:

Every amino acid contains nitrogen.
Every molecule making up every cell's membrane contains phosphorous (the membrane molecules are called phospholipids), and so does every molecule of ATP (the main energy source of all cells).
Potassium makes up 1 percent to 2 percent of the weight of any plant and, as an ion in cells, is essential to metabolism.


Nitrogen...

as NH4:
“ammonium (NH4)”

Definition: The ionized form of ammonia, which is occurs when the water is acidic. It is not toxic to fish as ammonia is, which is why aquariums that have acidic water do not have as many problems with the intial phase of the nitrogen cycle.
Ammonium, the most important nitrogenous fertilizer for water plants, is essential for the breakdown of plant protein.

as NO3
Nitrate is the result of the bacterial breakdown of ammonia > nitrite > nitrate which is the final stage of the natural biological metabolic waste conversion also known as the nitrogen cycle.

The process of breaking down ammonia > nitrites > nitrates is known as the nitrification process. It takes place in an aerobic environment. Nitrifying bacteria settle on gravel and build colonies. They need nutrients (ammonia and nitrite) and oxygen in order to perform their tasks. The result is nitrate. The removal of nitrate, if not utilized by plants, takes place in an anaerobic environment and is called denitrification.
Nitrate is also a key nutrient source for algae. Most of the pesky and unwanted algae thrive on poor water quality, high nutrient levels and excessive nitrate. Many initially cycling tanks experience an algae bloom due to this effect.

Some very important information:

Nitrifiers are most active at temperatures ranging from 68 - 86 degrees F. Their metabolism will decrease below 50 degrees F, while levels above 95 degrees F are potentially life threatening.

Nitrifiers need oxygen to perform their task (aerobic respiration). Nitrate is the final product after completion of the biochemical oxidation, which plants utilize as a fertilizer thus removing them from the water.

Nitrifying bacteria work either at full capacity or drift into a resting phase. Major changes in the bioload will effect the bacteria population. Additional bioload may have the effect of a new cycle (adjustment through growth).

The need for light proofing
Nitrifiers are light sensitive, especially toward ultraviolet (UV/ sunlight). Room light has a negative impact on bacterial activity as well. Colonizing the filter is therefore the preferred settlement of the bacteria, as it provides a dark environment. Light exposure (i.e. cleaning the filter) will not cause stress, as the time frame is too short allowing the colony to recuperate within hours.

The nitrifier's colony creates a surrounding, slimy bio-film, as they clutter together. This somewhat protects the settlement from light exposure. Good films smell earthy, if otherwise, it is an indication of problems in the aquatic environment.

Micronutrients


Iron is necessary for many enzyme functions and as a catalyst for the synthesis of chlorophyll. It is essential for the young growing parts of plants. Deficiencies are pale leaf color of young leaves followed by yellowing of leaves and large veins. Iron is lost by leaching and is held in the lower portions of the soil structure. Under conditions of high pH (alkaline) iron is rendered unavailable to plants. When soils are alkaline, iron may be abundant but unavailable. Applications of an acid nutrient formula containing iron chelates, held in soluble form, should correct the problem.

Manganese is involved in enzyme activity for photosynthesis, respiration, and nitrogen metabolism. Deficiency in young leaves may show a network of green veins on a light green background similar to an iron deficiency. In the advanced stages the light green parts become white, and leaves are shed. Brownish, black, or grayish spots may appear next to the veins. In neutral or alkaline soils plants often show deficiency symptoms. In highly acid soils, manganese may be available to the extent that it results in toxicity.

I thought this was very interesting:
Boron is necessary for cell wall formation, membrane integrity, calcium uptake and may aid in the translocation of sugars. Boron affects at least 16 functions in plants. These functions include flowering, pollen germination, fruiting, cell division, water relationships and the movement of hormones. Boron must be available throughout the life of the plant. It is not translocated and is easily leached from soils. Deficiencies kill terminal buds leaving a rosette effect on the plant. Leaves are thick, curled and brittle. Fruits, tubers and roots are discolored, cracked and flecked with brown spots.

Zinc is a component of enzymes or a functional cofactor of a large number of enzymes including auxins (plant growth hormones). It is essential to carbohydrate metabolism, protein synthesis and internodal elongation (stem growth). Deficient plants have mottled leaves with irregular chlorotic areas. Zinc deficiency leads to iron deficiency causing similar symptoms. Deficiency occurs on eroded soils and is least available at a pH range of 5.5 - 7.0. Lowering the pH can render zinc more available to the point of toxicity.

* This would explain why it is best to be at the lower end of the Ph scale for aero... 5.6-5.8

Copper is concentrated in roots of plants and plays a part in nitrogen metabolism. It is a component of several enzymes and may be part of the enzyme systems that use carbohydrates and proteins. Deficiencies cause die back of the shoot tips, and terminal leaves develop brown spots. Copper is bound tightly in organic matter and may be deficient in highly organic soils. It is not readily lost from soil but may often be unavailable. Too much copper can cause toxicity.

Molybdenum is a structural component of the enzyme that reduces nitrates to ammonia. Without it, the synthesis of proteins is blocked and plant growth ceases. Root nodule (nitrogen fixing) bacteria also require it. Seeds may not form completely, and nitrogen deficiency may occur if plants are lacking molybdenum. Deficiency signs are pale green leaves with rolled or cupped margins.

Chlorine is involved in osmosis (movement of water or solutes in cells), the ionic balance necessary for plants to take up mineral elements and in photosynthesis. Deficiency symptoms include wilting, stubby roots, chlorosis (yellowing) and bronzing. Odors in some plants may be decreased. Chloride, the ionic form of chlorine used by plants, is usually found in soluble forms and is lost by leaching. Some plants may show signs of toxicity if levels are too high.

Nickel has just recently won the status as an essential trace element for plants according to the Agricultural Research Service Plant, Soil and Nutrition Laboratory in Ithaca, NY. It is required for the enzyme urease to break down urea to liberate the nitrogen into a usable form for plants. Nickel is required for iron absorption. Seeds need nickel in order to germinate. Plants grown without additional nickel will gradually reach a deficient level at about the time they mature and begin reproductive growth. If nickel is deficient plants may fail to produce viable seeds.

Sodium is involved in osmotic (water movement) and ionic balance in plants.

Cobalt is required for nitrogen fixation in legumes and in root nodules of nonlegumes. The demand for cobalt is much higher for nitrogen fixation than for ammonium nutrition. Deficient levels could result in nitrogen deficiency symptoms.

Silicon is found as a component of cell walls. Plants with supplies of soluble silicon produce stronger, tougher cell walls making them a mechanical barrier to piercing and sucking insects. This significantly enhances plant heat and drought tolerance. Foliar sprays of silicon have also shown benefits reducing populations of aphids on field crops. Tests have also found that silicon can be deposited by the plants at the site of infection by fungus to combat the penetration of the cell walls by the attacking fungus. Improved leaf erectness, stem strength and prevention or depression of iron and manganese toxicity have all been noted as effects from silicon. Silicon has not been determined essential for all plants but may be beneficial for many.

Even more detailed information:

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5976table2.jpg


5976MinimumLevels.jpg
 
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Mr GreenJeans

Sat Cat
Veteran
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Pod Racer again."
PR - thx again for taking the time to post this info in such a convenient format!:yes::canabis:
 

Pod Racer

Member
You are welcome friend. :wink: Knowledge benefits us all. Let free information.

Great minds think alike, I'm actually just starting my career as a Bonsai enthusiast. Got to read your thread, Awesome how cool are pot growers! :pimp3:
 
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Pod Racer

Member
He He Fuck

He He Fuck

cough cough... :bongsmi: Ahh..... Sorry had to Vap there for a sec.

Ah, can I just say Snap! For Foiliar feeding! :bow: This freakin' twig, man, I mean...it was dead! I mean...DEAD, Dead! :wave:



Today, like 2.5 weeks later and only 1.5 weeks of foliar rescue and she looks like this:



I mean, I'm on my ass She is ready to take clones! :yoinks: SNAP! Bitch! Bam... I am awed. :pointlaug Never a skeptic here. Holly shit.

Peace Brothers.

PS And this is SOIL BITCH... Not even TAG. WTF We are in trouble! :bat:

Oh, and my little seedlings...Love them babies. :yes:


 
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Pod Racer

Member
Something interesting when researching Powdery Mildew cures. This is a benefical microbe that eats and inhibits PM, not a bad pre-emptive additive to an Innoculant Foliar mix.
T22 microbe
What do you all beleive would be a good idea? I'm thinking I need:

1. Inital veg/high growth mix

followed by

2. Innoculation mix and growth and health boosters.

There should be a transition mix for going over to P/K aborption. As the leaves will transport 7 times faster.

3. P/K Booster mix - maybe with hormone or growth inhibitors for the plant's veg cycle?

and finally

4. An In Flower Safe mix for immune boosting and pest resistance. Non-caustic, organic or non-irritating mix.

Thoughts?
 
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Tom Hill

Well-known member
Veteran
Cool thread Pod Racer,

For a couple years now i've been using "Brix Mix" from peaceful valley farm supply, it seems to be a well thought out and complete foliar mix. I use it weekly at 1/2 recommended dose & add 1 tsp vitamin C per gal- ph adjusted to about 5.8... Monthly, i use "Calcium 25" to raise pectin levels. Its a multi-pronged attack and i've been afraid to do any control groups to see what it is thats working but....Powdery Mildew problems have absolutely vanished.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet (lots of reading in this thread) but its advisable to stop foliar feeding prior to flowering (don't spray anything you intend to smoke) as leaves may convert nitrates to cancer causing agents.

Best Regards,
Tom
 
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Pod Racer

Member
Thanks Tom,

I'm sure the fewer carcinagens the better, eh? :joint: Though I'm a vapur head now.

However the problem is I have a new issue. Cured the clones and had amazing results with that, but now I have discovered my late flowering plants are just coated in PM. What to do? This happened last grow as this particular strain appears very suseptible and used H202 in H20 with a dot of soap. However I don't think that is very healthy, so this is my new idea for clearing up this issue. Tom, if you have any advice or suggestions, please speak up.

My PM Late Flowering mix:

1 gallon R/O H20 and Cow's Milk mixed 50/50, 81 mg of Aspirin (sal acid), 4 tablespoons of Potassium Bicarbonate (if I can find it), and 1/4 cup of SM-90.

If anyone knows of a reason this is a bad idea, speak up now cause I'm about to commit my buds to it. fsu:

SM-90 is prepared from natural plant oils - the organic composition of SM-90 is biodegradable and non-toxic to humans, animals and plants!

Unfortunately, if you are growing organically, it will also kill some of your beneficials. If you are using hydroponics, keeping SM-90 in your nutrient reservoir at 2-3 ml/gallon keeps fungus gnats at bay.
 

Tom Hill

Well-known member
Veteran
Oh man,

I feel ya bro.

I wish i had more knowledge on the subject. I'd be uncomfortable recommending late flowering sprays. Some things which are fine for human ingestion may not be ok to smoke? The food grade H2o2 minus the soap might be the best bet, did it work for you last time? It breaks down to water & oxygen i'm pretty sure, so no prob there. A friend of mine claims to have saved a harvest using a dunk of H2o2 solution just prior to trimming. He swirled branches around in a 5gal bucket of this solution at harvest, then claimed they dried up clean as a whistle- but i didn't see/smoke it personally.
I maybe would do a small sample test along these lines, and if it dried up clean- green light :D

I wish you the best of luck, whatever you decide,
Tom
 

Pod Racer

Member
Thanks Tom, Its all an experiment at this point. However the H202/Soap worked to remvove the majority of the PM it didn't really stop it, or cure it. Just removed it and would need repeated washing if I had not been harvesting that week.

The choices for the mix are based on residual chemicals, and I do plan to stray R/O water after a couple days to removed any build up or sediment.

I know foliar feeding during flower is frowned upon, mainly I think because it could promote PM and Budrot. However the agents I'm using should prevent that and I plan to circulate the air wildly after each application.

The components of SM-90 can be used right up until harvest as its just a botanical oil and mild fungicide. The Aspirin (Sal. Acid) you can take internally and is in most plant material, this is also a miniscule amount by area - 81 mg per gallon is a regulare aspirin cut in 1/2, then 1/2 again, and then 1/2 again. That little beebee is then crushed and added to a gallon of water and milk mixed together (which is Calcium and Protein, nothing really harmful that I'm aware of). The milk has been proven to work the best in combating PM outside of chemical agent.
There appears to be an enzyme or chemical amino acid or protein that is in cow's or goat's milk (preferredly unpasturized) that inhibits and destroys PM.

I'm also currently dosing the room with high levels of O3 to toppically destroy what it can. As much as I don't really want too, I think I'm going to break down and just use Sodium Bicarb as I don't feel like venturing out for Pot ash. But I'll pick some up for the future to have on hand.

Now I get why witches and alchemist always had jars of magic powders and liquid tonics. They were all fertilizers for their burning bushes. :hotbounce

Hocus Pocus I smokus!
 
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Pod Racer

Member
A new Rescue Mission

A new Rescue Mission

I should call this thread Mission Impossible, no? :pointlaug

For anyone that has not been following along I am currently running a new experiment with foliar rescue, more than feeding. It would appear that my new locals as well as my strain of Skunk 1 are highly susceptible to Powdery Mildew (the Scourge)! So now my re-flowered buds are coated thick as shit with PM. Surprise! NOT! :yoinks:

So, the attempt here is to destroy and remove the offending pathogen, PM, using a mix of PM agents assembled into another Pod Racer Special Rescue mix . :biglaugh:

The interesting thing is I measured this cocktail out after I mixed it up, and very curiously the ppms are 85 - no threat of nutrient absorption the PH is 9 on th dot. Which tells me a couple of things instinctively.

The first is that it is apparent that the object is to apply a foliar mix that is not nutrient rich. The high PH must be unhospitable to mildew and fungal life and especially an acid loving pathogen.





The mix was slippery and milky when wet, but dried sticky then smooth to the touch like hand lotion. However, here are the pictures as I doused these girls pretty heavily which I'm going to do for 3 applications, as I feel, not sure how to go about this just yet.

This is them treated:



The Bubble is much more PM resistant, but she does have a few spots.

This was my fault as I hit these gals when they were in flower with the Pen/Folitec and it got cold and humid for a few days. There is much more climatic change here compared to my old concrete bunker in the sun.

However she is looking fantastic as usually. I love her so. :yummy:



We'll watch their progress together, eh? Meanwhile, we can't ignore the rescued clones and Ms. Twiggy I call here now. She is going to be the mother of my next TAG - Tunnel of Terror grow. Its a full on assault in my new TAG Tunnel design, with multi layered ventilation and uber aero turbo assault foliar high pressure delivery system! Uuggurrggugugugguug (my grunting) :pointlaug

I can't wait, I'm on that next. But here she is with a couple friends and the new seedlings as they are ready to get up and go!



Stay tuned for updates. :yes:
 
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MaxYield

Member
Can you elaborate more on that Tunnel grow??

PR, Have you ever take some measurement on your plants to be able to compare growth between different foliar feeding? I think it would be interesting to see a side by side TAG grow, with a few plants getting foliar feed, and another group without, and compare the overall dimension of the plant periodically and the roots. I've got a few ideas in my head, but I would need some measurement to make them happened!! As for now I can't grow anything, still at my parent's house, but in july i'm going to move out in my apartment and would like my setup to be fully conceptualize.

Another thing I would like to ask yall, I'm really good in electric/electronic conception so I can build almost anything that you put voltage in it! But my problem is to know exactly what I would need to control or monitor that would help yall by getting easy data.

You can almost shoot me any idea (as crazy as they can sound) to optimize growth:
As example: I will program a µcontroller that will have a direct link to any PC, so you could monitor every sensor (CO2, PPM, PH, TEMP, RH, Res Level, Pressure, Air flow, Nutes quantity ...)

The intention behind this would be to make the growing easier by just loading a file into the system. The file would include things that you want to control such as light duration, CO2 level at any time, temp,.........

I will begin the program and conception shortly.
 

Pod Racer

Member
SNAP! Well worth a bowl, no? Join me?

SNAP! Well worth a bowl, no? Join me?

Pod RACER is N Da HOUSE! :joint: Time to unpimp your Aero! :woohoo: CHa.


I can not wait to show you the pictures, I am freakin' amazed. Completely, cough cough, Completely removed all traces of PM on my plants in one application! I am looking all over the plant, not a sign. :yoinks: I love being brilliant! :pointlaug

Fuck, it..I'm gonna go take pictures right now anyway. BRB. :wink:

Oh, and Max, I will be elaborating much on the Tunel of Terror, on my Primer thread. I'll show the plans and the build out for it, as well as discussion on principles and concepts.

I, we, could use your electronic expertise as we were just speaking of such over a vaporfest this weekend. Excellent timing, but like I told my good buddy, when you put your ass out there to invest freely it comes back to greet you 10 fold over and whatever you need just seems to rise up to meet your needs and desires. That is the excellence of the Ærocanna (The TAG religion).

Ok here are some pictures, I appologize for the HID, but I had to get my lamp back on since it was on a timer and everything was running. I shut it off while I fan circulated the room and plants dry. Now they are back to work.

I think the first one says it all! :yes:






I know the pics are shitty, I'll try to get better shots tonight when the lights go off again. But they looked like new plants, now we shall see what long term effect it had on them. But so far, very ...VERY impressed. :woohoo:
 
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Pod Racer

Member
Alright

Alright

Better pics I hope. Here they are about 6 hours later going into sleep.





But still frosty. :yes: I'm harvesting these in about a week or so, they are pretty much about done, nice to see that my cocktail knocked out the PM though. Very glad to see that. Now let us see if it stays gone. :joint:
 
nice work once again PR. I am impressed. This thread will certainly be referenced by many for many moons.

Thanks man
 
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Mr GreenJeans

Sat Cat
Veteran
^^^ ditto ^^^ Very nice frosty bud PR! :joint: I'll take a dozen :pointlaug Strong work on knocking down the PM. Looking lovely - I can imagine the finger hash you're gonna get from all that sticky bud :yes:
 

Pod Racer

Member
Ah shucks, thanks ya'll. :wave:

Since things are kinda slow and I'm not quite ready to jump into the TAG building just yet, here is some eye candy from Pod's Garden of delights.

First up, my baby Bubbliscious...she is so pretty, just a mean ol' corndog on a stick, just how I lik'em.





This is an early bud I cut to smoke, hate smoking green, but when you need it you need it, eh? :bat:



Here are the recovered Clones:


And that poor Skunk 1 I've hacked her up again...however this time....



This is how it is suppose to look in my cloner. :yoinks:



Much better, I'm finally getting things under control I hope. Knock on wood. :bat:
 
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Pod Racer

Member
Update

Update

For shits and grins. Remember that little old Skunk Twig? :petting:

Well I've been hacking the crap out of her for clones...lol But she is looking great despite all the neglect and abuse.


 
G

Guest

Great foliar thread, should become a sticky, certainly a classic.
 
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G

Guest

came over and checked the thread, hoping to see more excellent foliar management stuff; maybe a little bump will remind people it's here and share their stuff on it
 
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