Advanced Foliar Techniques Explored

[Pod Racer]

Pod's Mix

Pod's Mix

OK my friend, let me see if I can break it down for you what I'm using and why. Mainly this is my recovery/pro vegging mix that I believe fills myriad possible deficiencies and/or safe guards. *Note: I started the clone recovery with DM's Penetrator/Folitec at 1/3 strength for 3 feedings to replace and supply any missing elements and micronutrients missing from the toxic lock out.

The mix is as follows:

In a gallon container I mix 5ml of Cal/Mag Plus (Botanicare), 5ml Liquid Karma, 41 mg of crushed aspirin (sal acid), and 2-3 ml of SM-90.

The Liquid Karma contains the Yucca Extract that aids in adhering the foliar spray, which is applied as a thin aerosol under and over the leaves.

Biochemical Composition

Liquid Karma contains seven (7) major groups of nutrients based on their specific effects on plant growth and development:

A. Fermented Compost Solution - prepared by exhaustive bacterial and enzymatic fermentation of fish meal, composted seabird guano, spirulina, sea kelp, and soybean meal. In order to enhance the fermentation process and obtain a product which contains the highest possible biological activity, the fermentation is carried out in different stages in the presence of humic acid, citric acid, raw sugar cane, complex carbohydrates, glucose fructose and over 72 trace elements. Fermented Compost Solution prepared in this manner is used by an increasing number of organic gardeners to obtain luxuriant vegetative growth, huge flowers and flavorful fruits and vegetables.

B. Amino Acids - Liquid Karma contains essential amino acids which are derived from casein hydrolysate and soybean protein hydrolysate. Amino acids are important plant nutrients because they serve as building blocks for structural proteins and enzymes. In addition, amino acids are also involved in the activation of transfer ribonucleic acids (t-RNAs) and DNA synthesis. The following amino acids derived from casein hydrolysate and soybean protein, are present in Liquid Karma: glycine, alanine, valine, leucine, isoleucine, serine, threonine, aspartic acid, glutamic acid, aspartic acid, glutamic acid, asparagine, glutamine, lysine, arginine, histidine, cysteine, cystine, methlonine, proline, phenylalanine, tyrosine, and tryptophan.

C. Vitamins - All of the vitamins used in this formulation are extremely beneficial for plant growth because they function as co-factors for enzymes involved in carbohydrate metabolism and the biosynthesis of macromolecules. Liquid Karma contains significant amounts of riboflavin, thiamine, pyridoxine, and all of the other B-complex vitamins obtained from fermented yeast extracts.

D. Plant Extracts - Liquid Karma also contains aqueous and ethanolic extracts of etiolated wheat seedlings and Zea mays. These extracts contain high levels of the plant hormones known as auxins and cytokinins. For successful plant micropropagation (tissue culture), the crucial requirements for an auxin and cytokinin are well documented in botanical literature.

E. Humic Acid - In addition to the ingredients indicated above, Liquid Karma contains optimal levels of humic acid derived from leonardite. This substance is known to stimulate the growth of roots, shoots and flowers, by maintaining the proper osmotic concentration in cells.

F. Seaweed Extract - Liquid Karma also contains a high proportion of seaweed extract obtained from North Atlantic Kelp (Ascophyllum nodosum). Kelp extract contains metabolically active carbohydrates, complex carbohydrates, minerals such as cobalt, strontium and iodine, and growth substances that are known to be beneficial for plant growth.

G. Carbohydrates - Carbohydrates are included in Liquid Karma because they are the direct or indirect precursors of virtually every metabolite. Their precense provides the added burst of energy required to assimilate and metabolize all of the other wonderful ingredients present in Liquid Karma.

The seven nutrient groups used in the formation of Liquid Karma act synergistically to produce optimal plant growth.

Benefits of Using Liquid Karma

Extensive research and field trials indicate that Liquid Karma produces beneficial results during every phase of plant growth. Starting with seed germination and following through to vegetative growth, budding and flowering, the continued use of Liquid KarmaTM ensures optimal plant growth at every stage. In addition, because of the presence of high concentrations of B-complex vitamins and plant hormones in Liquid Karma, the product has been shown to be very effective in protecting plants from transplant shock, and in promoting the rooting of cuttings.

Cal/Mag Plus - Cal-Mag Plus is a highly beneficial plant nutrient supplement to correct the inherit problem of calcium, magnesium and iron mineral deficiencies found in most soil fertilizers and some hydroponic nutrient liquid concentrated formulas. Serves as a catalyst for the major elements to work in symbiosis with one another to prevent blossum end rot in tomatoes and peppers and tip burn in lettuce.

Cal-Mag Plus Helps Prevent

* Blossom end rot in tomatoes and peppers
* Tip burn in lettuce and cabbage
* Dry and withered flower and fruit set
* Interveinal chlorosis
* Stunted growth rates
* Upward leaf curl

* Helps increase cell division and plant tissue development, flower and fruit sets, water nutrient and carbon dioxide uptake growth rates and crop maturity.

* In hydroponics, iron falls out of the solution relatively fast due to the magnetic driven pumps without grounding probes and high levels of dissolved oxygen from air stones and pumps.

SM-90- eliminates many molds, mildew and leaf spot and is also effective for botrytis, blight, fusarium, leaf mold, rhizoctonia stem rot, sclerotinia stem rot and others. SM-90 also discourages and eliminates many common pests including aphids, thrips, spider mite, and whitefly. It is believed to act as a systemic to inhibit insect colonization and to deter reinfestation.

An added benefit of SM-90 is an increase in metabolism and growth rate when used on a regular basis. A great choice for growers looking for a safe product to use on their consumable crops. Be sure to spray diluted solution within 8 hours of mixing.

Aspirin as mentioned earlier, is made from the willow tree which is the fastest and most prolific rooting compound on Earth. As well, induces plants into releasing their natural defences against harmful fungi, bacteria and viruses. And as I rely mostly on my Ladybugs from insect protection and defence I try not to use toxins or pesticides as this does not promote a healthy balance for either animal nor plant.

All this is mixed with R/O water and the Ph falls about 5.6 with a ppm of around 500.

This is currently my standard mix applied every 3 days during veg cycle. I do not foliar feed during flower.

 

[jaykush]

hey pod over in the OFC in the organic soil forum we were messing with our own liquid karma formula. got most of the goodies in it.

as you asked about my schedules i dont really have a schedule, more of a touch and feel grower but i do like some foliar spray mixes.

for seedlings/clones
wormcastings, vitamins, spring water

foe veg.
wormcastings, compost, vitamins, kelp meal, guano

flower i cut down on the kelp and start spraying nettles extract along with vitamins and some epsom salts for MG.

also i have used yucca and tried aloe vera as a spreader

 

[NOKUY]

is liquid karma the same thing as "maxicrop"?

can anyone give me a foiler feed ratio for "maxicrop" for very young clones. I've heard it works great as a foiler feed, but hard to find much info on, and the bottle does not give directions for foiler (i also heard it a bit messy as a foiler feed)

 

[Pod Racer]

The first hit, it made me cry
The second hit, I thought I would die
The third hit, I felt deep inside
By the fourth hit, I knew I was fried.
-Pod Racer 2007 a.k.a Room2Grow



I'll be with you all shortly as I am re-elevating as we speak. I wish I had words capable enough to share how awestruck I am at the beauty and grandure of a true friend. My words fall flat in the wake of such a majestic gift, I am crippled by its purity and deafened by it sublime unending depth. This is to you my dearest friend may I honor you always. Best wishes brianV. A true angel among men, may your pipe never run empty.

:friends:

There is a new thread by the way, for the truly insane. Is the new Æromatrix thread. Check it out, if you dare.

 

[Pod Racer]

Time for some eye candy

Time for some eye candy

Here are the recovery pictures from Pod's OR room. Lovely to see my haggard girls looking so perky and healthy and back on their feet. I am truly amazed at not only their recovery but the speed in which they have bounced back as this has only been about a 72 hour period from certain death. Let us here it for the value of foliar feeding and the quality produces apparently available to us.






And some vanity shots, this is my first seedling that I have ever pollentated and she is amazing. Oh, and the world's best pest control, let us hear it for the Ladybugs!!!!

Don't you just love a healthy bitch. Damn, what beauty. She's a pure Bubbliscious by the way. Soon to be the cornerstone of my harem.

 

[NOKUY]

is liquid karma the same thing as "maxicrop"?

can anyone give me a foiler feed ratio for "maxicrop" for very young clones. I've heard it works great as a foiler feed, but hard to find much info on, and the bottle does not give directions for foiler (i also heard it a bit messy as a foiler feed)

anyone?

 

[Pod Racer]

A simple search reveals:
Maxicrop Liquid Seaweed (Kelp Extract)

Derived from fresh Norwegian kelp (Ascophyllum nodosum), Maxicrop Kelp contains over 70 minerals, micronutrients, amino acids and vitamins. Also contains growth regulators which stimulate vigorous root development and plant growth. Encourages tolerance to plant stresses such as frost, pests, disease and drought. 10.7 oz. wettable powder (WP) makes one gallon of concentrate. OMRI Listed for use in organic production

Directions for Use:

Soaking Seeds & Bulbs - Soak overnight in solution of 1 capful to 1 gallon of water...after planting, water with solution of 1 capful to 1 gallon of water.

Seedlings - Water with solution of 1 capful to 1 gallon of water each week.

Cuttings & Rootings - Stand in heavy solution overnight using 2 capfuls to 1 gallon of water. Water with solution of 1 capful to 1 gallon of water.

So obviously not the same thing, but similar. I would say LK is a far superior product over all and I think of it like Pinnicillin for plants. It is amazing. I'm sure maxicrop works well, however one is North Atlantic kelp and the other Norwegian kelp. Though the LK has much more composting compounds, soy, worm castings...et al. IMO.

 

[BUDDY BOY]

Wow. Foliar at its finest..... Pulls up and seat and here we go.
Question? When using DM, do you include your regular fert level or do you drop them down a little. I have the folitech and penetrator and they both have been sitting there for months. But looking at the posts in this thread, I'm blowing the dust off these immmediately and using them on this round of clones.
I basically did the same thing you did, I cloned in a bubbler then put them in the soil 4 days ago.
My nutes and addidtives... Age Old Organics Grow, Bloom, and Kelp( well they switched to the seaweed and fish, and I am wondering is this the same as it seems to be too much for my gals and makes them act different than the kelp did). Green Fuse with every watering and some hydrozime. Just picked up some kool-bloom and fossil fule, and I've been using Awesome Blossoms in flowering.

So to sum things up... I have a clusterfuck of nutes and additives/supplements and is looking for some help. It looks like this is the place since I am about to start foliar and Pod racer you have some sure nough serious info in this thread....
Thanks

 

[ShroomDr]

well I have started foliar feeding my reveg with AN VHO. I used a 1 part to 400 parts VHO to Distilled H2O to get a ppm of 397 (@.5conv). I have no idea of what is in VHO, and they say to only mix enough for 24 hours. That makes me think it has something alive in it. The bottle says start off at 300 ppm (probably @.7conv;AN's normal scale), then go up 300 ppm every four days, until you reach 1200 ppm.

 

[Pod Racer]

Hey Buddy Boy, Welcome and much thanks for the kind words. Makes me happy I inspired you to dust off those very expensive Toys my friend.
I know just where you are. I haven't used these products since I bought them over a year ago. I am just in the mood to force myself through a threshold of ignorance and I have been rewarded once again with amazing results.

The truth is, in reality, if you are running a TAG based grow you will have to drastically reduce their ppms for aero. This is the BIGGEST mistake, I still make, as I was accustomed to DWC where I was able to bump nute up to 1800 during flower. In aero this is 3 times too high. 1000 ppms at max flower has been demonstrated to be the top end of pushing the edge. Most vegging is done under 600 ppms, which is why hard water is not desirable as 400 ppms of bicarbonate garbage leaves little to enrich.

Originally when I mixed up the DM One series it comes in at a staggering 1876 ppms I think, something insane and I experienced immediate lock out.

The optimal range without some form of accelerator is to begin at around 300 ppms for vegging, topping out at 800 ppms by the first 2 weeks of flower, which is necessary to store enough N to last the full flowering. And then you switch to DM One Flower boosting only with DM Max Bloom, which doesn't so much boost the ppms as just add much needed bloom nutrients keeping the mix low. But their ppms are based on DWC I believe as in TAG I have found only my most hardy White Widows could take 1200 ppms and they fried up their leaves making fat ass buds. As you saw earilier I think, look how much freakin' Diet Coke they drink, steroid bitches!

So, for the Penetrator and Folitec I used 1/3 rd the strength so I could apply it 3 times in one day - as I was doing massive IC. I recently (tonight) shot them with the recommended mix for the foliar feeding. I didn't even check the ppms or the ph, I'll do that right now. However I thought I'd see what their recommendation would do foliar wise. But keep all aero under 800 ppms until you learn how to drive that fast, as its like jumping behind the wheel of a Lamborghini Gallardo. If you don't really know what you are doing and you floor the throttle, you may either stall your grow out or fly right off the curb and into a wall. They are high performance machines and respect is necessary as its far too easy to pop that clutch, just like you see here. I just did it myself and I invented the style of growing. That is how hard it is to master, but also what makes it such a kick to try and master. Its like those who enjoy Windsurfing, Skydiving, Bull riding... No one said it was easy or safe, but if you are any good at it, you'll win best in show every time. Hands down.





I am very happy you brought that to my attention Buddy, as upon checking the ppms were fine at 426, however the ph was 8.5 WTF? This is the one thing that I have yet to understand about Dutch Master One Products. From the begining they have never hit right on as mixed by their directions, however if you mix to ph 5.6 using Ph Down (Phosphoric Acid is what I'm using) it took a shitload bumping the ppms from 426 up to 1000 ppms. Which, might be fine for a foliar feeding, I'm not sure, but it scared the hell out of me so I mixed to 1/2 the solution strength which didn't effect the ph whatsoever, but dropped the ppms to around 500 which I feel much safter about.

Now saying that, here are some view from 72 hours of Foliar rescue.

The first 3 pictures are today 72 from the first application, following are shots from the first 24 hours.

 

[Pod Racer]

DM One Max Flower is the same as P/K boost or Awesome Blossom, though I do love AB - and actually BC's line wouldn't be a bad experiment to run. But I'm getting way off target here, so pulling it back online. I just wanted to make that point as most would ask, where is the P/K booster...well that's it. It is a nice clear clean nutrient line well made for hydro/aero and uses Chelated Cal, which is very important as that is a very visible deficency (the black freckling of the leaves). They make a quality product, but it appears to be designed to be mixed with some sort of magic water that would hit their goal of Ph 6 and have a ppm somewhere in the neighborhood of 600-800 ppms. However this is not always the case.

1. Perfect ratios right out of the bottle, N is 9:1 almost all Nitrate (pure energy, no taxing the plant) perfect ratio for consumption.

2. Calcium to Mg ratio...perfect 3:1

3. ALL the micro-nutrient elements are ALL a combo of Chelated and freely available, so they always have Fe,Mn,Mo,Zn,Cu.


I'll tell you my next run will most likely be with Ionic as that product, I believe would go insane with sub-aquatic Co2 infussion and TAG sytle growing. I've only run Ionic (with sub Co2) in DWC and it was the healthiest and most lush grow by far, outside of TAG on the dot.

Let's see them together and see what monsters I can create.

For reference:

 

[Pod Racer]

All this growth has been in the past 72 hours from a stem that had a chunck taken out of it, torn from a TAG table, stuck in potting soil, after having already been hacked to death for clones and left for dead. To say the response to Folitec/Penetrator and my own Pod Rescue mix (Aspirin, LK, Cal/Mag Plus, SM-90 cocktail) has won my vote! Damn! Proves it to me.



That little yellow tip is the only sign that is left of deficency. I am truly amazed.

Here is the day by day:

This is her stuck in the FAG cloner before soil or attention.



Now we begin treatment:
This is a 1/3 Foli/Pen then the cocktail applied like every 4 hour three times a day till the last 3 hours which I've done a 1/2 strength Foli/Pen again.
Not a bad piece of work if I do say so myself. I honestly wouldn't have believe it if I hadn't saw it here in full color. Definitely worth some research.

From this to this in 72 hours. Blows my mind, I guess I do know something after all, what do you know.

 

[Pod Racer]

Actually, I don't know if anyone noticed, but it appears as though the plant has actually reversed the damage on the leaf tips? I didn't see it at first, but the same leaves are all there from the day before. She hasn't lost a single leaf through the entire process. And I just noticed the dried brown tips are gone, I have never seen anything like that in my life. That - seriously impresses the shit out of me. Am I seeing things? Has it actually healed itself? Is that possible?

 

[BUDDY BOY]

Yeah those pics are definitely convinceing. My clones, once I put them in the dirt usually takes a significant amount of time to show good growth like that. I am really sold on the DM and I am going to mix up a cocktail of my own. Think I am going to use Green Fuse Grow, some Age Old Fish/Seaweed and some DM folietch and penetrator and see what happens. I really don't do pics cause I'm not "internet secure as I would like to be", but will definitely be riding shotgun with you Pod Racer. Will update later...

 

[MaxYield]

Hi pod, you may want to try this out! http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/ioniser.htm

It's terribly simple, the cost is really low and anyone can build this!!

I think that you can put this ionizer in the grow room, then get a ultrasonic mister. Once the mister goes on, so does the ionizer so that all the mist goes onto the plant. Don't need for a sprayer, and the difference might be amazing. Just need to test it.

This ionizer could also help for odor, as you can build a sh!t load of them for the price of 1 ionizer. You could make yall sh!t smell good

 

[Pod Racer]

Excellent help MaxYield, really, that is a bril idea. SNAP!

There is some cross over information on photosynthesis on my Æromatrix thread, if anyone is curious to visit. I kinda found the quantum breakdown on Carbon cycle that might be applied to foliar ionization, but my poor ass brain is fried. I can digest no more ...mercy...lol.

But Damn Max That's the way to think outside the box. Good job. Gold Star for you! :smile:

And for that, how about some root porn? :smile:

I thought I would take some pictures of the salvaged clones that I have resurrected from the dead in less than 7 days, is that significant? lol Probably not, but nice root development, I would say they responded very well to the foliar feedings which were pretty frequent honestly. And the only thing that kept them alive I'm sure. Besides a lot bitching..I mean chanting...



Nice to see I still have the touch after a year off. :wink: Here are some aeroroots:

You might want to wipe up afterwards.



I love this little Bonsai clone garden thing I got going on, the Foli/Pen I think really just lets them start growing where ever there is a leaflet. Its a little forrest about 1" high. lol I have to be really stoned to get down there. But its really very quaint.



And my favorite revived clones and twiglet. :smile:



And I used the Foli/Pen and Pod Cocktail on the flowering plants I popped the clutch on too soon, upped their Nitrogen (veg mix) and they actually backed off finishing their bud set and have gone back (after 16 hour days) to setting up new flower clusters. My bubble especially has responded very nicely without any sign of issue to date. She is my new baby allstar. Love her to pieces, lol literally.





And last but not least my re-flowered Skunk1 that was pretty much just done. lol But she is setting up new craddles as we speak.



I actually had to ripe her from the side of my Bubbliscious Seedling above, there were both transplanted in mid flower unfortunately, but the Bubble did not complain. The skunk 1 bitched, but she got over it obviously. :smile:

 

[MaxYield]

I also found some cheap way to build some:
-PPM tester;
-CO2 snuffer;
-RH/Temps meter;
-E-Ballast;

I just have a hard time with the PH meter, I only found a PH electrode that is kind of pricey (60$ US) and you have to change it every 9-12months.

 

[Pod Racer]

I live and die by my Milwakee Tricorder :wink: wouldn't step onto my rig without it. Dangerous to fly blind their little Anni. :smile:

 

[Pod Racer]

Pod's Pleasure Palace

Pod's Pleasure Palace

Alright, time for an update no? It has been officially 7 days since I attempted to resurrect my dying clones that burnt to hell and back in 1800+ nutrient bubbler. Here are the undisputable results of that experiment using my intuition and understanding of quantum physics. I never said I was a gardener, though it is a hobby. :wink:

See if you recognize any of these gals, I had a hard time.





I put the seedlings in for fun. :smile:

And look at how beautiful my Bubbliscious Babies is. My first ever seed I produced with my girls, and my first ever soil grow, ...and my first midflower soil transplant as well. I don't think I witnessed a single issue with her, even after hacking all her limbs off up to her neck. I'm in love!




And for some AeroRoot Porn, cause I just happen to have taken some and I love freakin' root porn. Especially my own. Not braggin' - meaning I like my bitches to be A+ Healthy with no diseases.




I even got them a new roommate to keep the conversation lively.



I am so happy to see these clones just rise from the ashes. You'd never know I burnt them alive. Shows you what a little consideration and a lot of concern can do for a living thing. Wish I had as much luck with people as I do with my girls. But then again, I wish most people made me feel as good and were as dependable as my girls. :wink: Catch 22 I suppose. Ah, but aren't the just loverly. :smile:

PS All credit I would receive I allocate to whereisbrianV. a true friend and my personal savior - it is to he that any should thank for providing the ability for me to see clearly and for enlightening us all with his gift of love. I do wish I had met more like him in my life. To you my friend, all victories go. :friends:

 

[payn4school]

All right, here goes my idea for auto misting! try and stay with me, and if there is an easier way, dont hesitate to interupt.

Start with your standard 12 on 12 off light timer. There will several things plugged into this
- a recycle timer for the pump to spray the plants (not roots)
- a 15 minute delay start plugged into that. (for the lights)

This will give you one spray a day, with no chance of burn.

Then you could rigg a off- triggered sprayer on another cycle timer to spray as soon as the lights shut down for the night cycle.

Seems like a lot for automation, I bet there is a better way, but I cant think of it.

Im also thinking of using two seperate spray solutions, one containing the folitech and the other using the max, but I have not used the max yet, and Im not sure what the difference is between that and the folitech. Didnt it used to be called Max FX?

Im am also picturing two adjustible spray bars running the legnth f my tubes, one on each side and adjustible in hight. Sounds promising. need to run some side by side comparisons first though to justify the expense and complexity.

later