Across International

[Dab Strudel]

I read 8 pages of this post, no one mentioned that shatter comes from non agatated oil. If you scrape then scrape razor, then scrape again etc, you get butter. If you blast into Pyrex let it purge to a point where it's sludge, then with a flexible spatula scrape corners and whole pan with as few smooth strokes as possible. Then let gravity run the oil from spatula to parchment , you can guide it with a razor. Once it is on parchment let it sit in oven for 30 before pulling vac. I start at 95deg Fahrenheit, and each flip I go up 1degree. After flip let sit for 20-30 before vac again. After a few days I usually end up with solid shatter. If warmed up a bit it can be flexible...no idea why pics won't post but hopefully this helps a few people...yes I don't have many posts on here...but that's cuz I really don't care to have one more thing to keep up with.

Thats because it was mentioned in other threads geared twords purging. But if butter is something you want to avoid also dont spread your oil when its hardening up or atleast to the point of having to use a bit of pressure to manipulate it

 

[Sunfire]

The process is called "nucleation". If you want guaranteed clear shatter, manage your moisture content seriously, pour your product but sounds like your open blasting. Don't whip or agitate at all. Watch the bubbles as you pull vac. Stop when you see co2 bubbles and wait and pull more later once reaction has stopped. Yes let material warm back up after flipping before you pull vac.

 

[justintime420]

kind of off topic but is it normal to order a 1.9 oven and wait 2 months? ordered feb 24th from the bay area and yes the strike in the bay and being on back order should have put it a month behind at most but 2 months? kind of a long time just wondering if anyone else is experiencing a long wait

 

[Dab Strudel]

kind of off topic but is it normal to order a 1.9 oven and wait 2 months? ordered feb 24th from the bay area and yes the strike in the bay and being on back order should have put it a month behind at most but 2 months? kind of a long time just wondering if anyone else is experiencing a long wait

yea the strike is over so all the back orders are getting filled as new shipments come in, but they have so many back ordered due to it being by far the most popular oven they sell. I did some waiting myself.... im sure others here did as well.

 

[Dab Strudel]

The process is called "nucleation". If you want guaranteed clear shatter, manage your moisture content seriously, pour your product but sounds like your open blasting. Don't whip or agitate at all. Watch the bubbles as you pull vac. Stop when you see co2 bubbles and wait and pull more later once reaction has stopped. Yes let material warm back up after flipping before you pull vac.

you pour, ive always wondered why ppl do that? cant you take it down just a little farther and still be able to scrape without creating nucleation? or is the clarity just that much different?

 

[Sunfire]

I don't pour, fuck that, I scrape and whip wax to get shit done fast. I just wanted to get it over with.

 

[hobb3s93]

I bet the difference is a mercurial head thermometer and a thermocouple pyrometer. The regular 1.9 is low grade and the elite is high grade.

Pretty much an analog sending unit with a digital gauge and a digital sending unit with a digital gauge.

The manual of my 1.9 talks about the mercurial head thermometer and it's lag time relating to overshooting, and how to adjust it and all that good stuff.

I just learned to live with it and I can trick it if I want to bump the temp up or try to cool it down. It's just a slow read and feedback so you have to account for that. I don't think it's too big of a deal to have a few degree over shoot for like 10-20 minutes but I'm not an artisan so idk really.

so would you recommend hfs over ai? i have two ai's and as most people would say there not super precise but they get the job done.
but im tempted to get an hfs because of their pick up option and cheaper pricing.

if there are an inferior quilaty to ai id rather just spend the extra money. just trying to get some insight because im gna be making the purchase soon.

 

[Sunfire]

Well the hfs analog gauges are crap, same as ai, you gotta watch the bubbles for sure. They are mercurial head thermometer s so they are slow to react to temp changes but I have learned to work it.

The main difference is the keda ovens hfs sell are bottom, back, and top heated. Which at first I though was lame but with my custom thicker shelves I have, I get pretty even heat. The top is hotter than the bottom which is opposite of AI but it's only about a 5 degree difference and people have said their AI's can have up to and 15 degree discrepency.

The npt fittings leaked so I had to fix that as you can read back in this thread about. And the shelf brackets weren't level so I had to level those out too.

All and all I think they are worth it for 500 less per oven. You get a much better deal if you order 2.

 

[hobb3s93]

Well the hfs analog gauges are crap, same as ai, you gotta watch the bubbles for sure. They are mercurial head thermometer s so they are slow to react to temp changes but I have learned to work it.

The main difference is the keda ovens hfs sell are bottom, back, and top heated. Which at first I though was lame but with my custom thicker shelves I have, I get pretty even heat. The top is hotter than the bottom which is opposite of AI but it's only about a 5 degree difference and people have said their AI's can have up to and 15 degree discrepency.

The npt fittings leaked so I had to fix that as you can read back in this thread about. And the shelf brackets weren't level so I had to level those out too.

All and all I think they are worth it for 500 less per oven. You get a much better deal if you order 2.

awesome im in la so pick up is easy for me. thanx for the advice. maybe i can convince my buddy to grab one aswell.

 

[Hellavated]

If you need to get linked in with Nelson over at HFS, I got a great relationship with him. Can get you some nice prices, nothing against AI, I loved my AI, but for 500 bucks cheaper the HFS is the exact same thing, maybe even less temp variance.

 

[kronus]

nelson @ hfs is awesome

 

[BrainChild]

https://instagram.com/p/1oF75ASyNr/?taken-by=poindexterextracts

Lotta hubbub on IG about this thermal image of an AI oven...

Personally I don't see the big deal, obviously it's going to be hotter where the heaters are, and you tune the PID so the shelves are being heated to your target temp. I guess people expect every square inch of the oven to be @the target temp...

That being said I don't think it's too much to expect individually heated shelves for $1800.

 

[knubs]

hey guys, would you prefer one 3.2 oven or two 1.9's for extraction work? i've got my own thoughts on it, but i just want to hear others opinions before i make a purchase. oh, and how many shelves can be used (practically) in each?

also, how is everyone liking the individual heated shelves with the 3.2? is is really that reliable to have 3 shelves at different temps? if i wanted to have one at 98 degrees and one at 110, are they really going to stay their own temp?

 

[Sunfire]

If you read back on this thread you will see the discussion in which a 1.9 is more efficient as far as surface area. The 16x14" internal dimensions fit a 16x12" Parchment nicely with minimal wasted surface area of the oven shelfs.

I would assume that under vacuum, and with thick shelves, the three shelves would start to share IR heat. Maybe if the top was higher temp, the bottom lower temp, and the middle a temp of the median of the top and bottom, that might work out.

 

[Sunfire]

If you need to get linked in with Nelson over at HFS, I got a great relationship with him. Can get you some nice prices, nothing against AI, I loved my AI, but for 500 bucks cheaper the HFS is the exact same thing, maybe even less temp variance.

It's not the exact thing but similar as I had previously said they need a little tuning. It took me a whole day to level the shelf brackets and replace the leaking npt fittings that had regular white thread seal entry with the yellow thread seal entry but I feel it was worth it to do this to 3 ovens

The heating coil placement is different as well but I think now it's better than AI. I do recommend getting full sized 16"x14" 1/8 thick aluminum shelves custom cut for you. They costed me like 11 bucks a piece. The stock ones are more like 1/16" thick and don't fill the entire oven and are expensive. Just be careful to never slide your shelves on the brackets as this makes metal dust shavings. Pick the shelf up off the bracket, then remove it.

 

[Rickys bong]

https://instagram.com/p/1oF75ASyNr/?taken-by=poindexterextracts

Lotta hubbub on IG about this thermal image of an AI oven...

Personally I don't see the big deal, obviously it's going to be hotter where the heaters are, and you tune the PID so the shelves are being heated to your target temp. I guess people expect every square inch of the oven to be @the target temp...

That being said I don't think it's too much to expect individually heated shelves for $1800.

Shows how little a lot of people who are running these know about their equipment. Especially a cheap oven like this.

The heating elements are always going to be hotter than the setpoint. And without any thermal mass in the oven the temp will vary a lot throughout the oven...

 

[knubs]

If you read back on this thread you will see the discussion in which a 1.9 is more efficient as far as surface area. The 16x14" internal dimensions fit a 16x12" Parchment nicely with minimal wasted surface area of the oven shelfs.

I would assume that under vacuum, and with thick shelves, the three shelves would start to share IR heat. Maybe if the top was higher temp, the bottom lower temp, and the middle a temp of the median of the top and bottom, that might work out.

thanks for the response. i will dig through the thread more now that i now that it's in there.

 

[Sunfire]

There's really no need for you to dig back now, I just pretty much gave you the summary of the discussion. The 1.9 is just more efficient for smaller scale. Now if you want to step up to like a 8 cubic foot where a 24"x16" sheet of parchment will fit in it and you can finish off 1/2 to 1 pound slabs, now that's another story.

The biggest slab of wax I finished off on a 16x12" sheet was like 287 grams and it was a nightmare! I usually average about a qp (90-140 grams) on a 16x12" sheet with ease. Any larger and you really gotta watch and work the muffin and it's a pain in the ass.

 

[fsttimes81]

I can honestly say after 3 hours reading this entire thread I now have even less of an idea what oven to buy, let alone pump, fittings, gauges and optional cold trap... I feel stupider and smarter all at the same time. My goal was to spend under 5k on the optimal set up. I though AI was the ticket, I guess i fell for the advertising in all the mags. Lol kinda feel like maybe i should just stick to a vacume chamber and hot plate. I just wanted a fancy set up to look good in the lab. Fuck I get board sometimes!

 

[Dab Strudel]

Sooo best bang fer yer buck will be 2 1.9's from Hydrion or AI, I can vouch for AI, Id get another one knowing it works alright but Hrdrion owners say its just as competent and saves 500+ bucks. I wouldnt recommend a 3.2 individually heated shelves because having 2 units is way nicer than1 with 3 monster shelves IMO. If you have the knowledge to change fittings, you can take off the KF25 fitting (if you dont want to pay the 50 bucks for the conversion kit) and put on a barb fitting from Ace Hardware for a few bucks. Its Zinc plated but its on a vac port so its cool.