hey, you just got your 50th post! congrats! now you can pm! and i agree with you completely!
-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
a wicked pulse
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
hey, you just got your 50th post! congrats! now you can pm! and i agree with you completely!
So is the title meant to be a double entendre or is that just a coincidence? lol... Pullin up my bucket.
......
Amazing things shall happen here
......
Amazing things shall happen here
......
Jesus.
Go out drinking for a week and look what you miss.
Thanks for the heads up... you bastard.
Go out drinking for a week and look what you miss.
Thanks for the heads up... you bastard.
D
disciple
Dark Helmet
Active member
wow *remains speechless* where the hells my chair, deff going on the subd list. Oh d9 are they homemade flips if so wheres the tute lol?? i wish u well on the run mate, even tho u really dont need it ur skills are far from pokin a stick at.
D
DHF
Wow....Less than 30 watts per sq ft with cooltubes , and Disciple runnin his shit next to nuclear proportions with bare bulbs and angled adjust-a-wings...
What`s a guy gotta do ta get a grasp on things round ya`ll plant killers.....
.....
Me and Bobble`s `ll be over here hittin bongs on our buckets waitin fer all this to unfurl D9......and for the record.....Watts per sq ft don`t mean dick without environment dialed so I feel yas Bro......and....
I ran 34 watts per sq ft for almost a decade with krusty buckets and 10 lb rooms consistently EVERY run....but....
I had Krusty and Heath both bitchin me out ta up things ta 50 watts per , and when I did with my ebb and flow bucket flip rooms.......
The same cut I`d been runnin for almost 10 yrs outside before I ran her inside with krusty`s another almost 10 yrs was as different as daylight and dark as far as trichome production , nug density , and overall increased quality across the board...
Yield increased some but not measurably , but as God is my witness the finished product looked like 2 different varieties when I only had 1.....anyways....
All about budget and requirements I suppose.....Now....back to our regularly scheduled program...and...Thanks for the in depth thread Bro....
Respect....DHF....
.....
What`s a guy gotta do ta get a grasp on things round ya`ll plant killers.....
.....Me and Bobble`s `ll be over here hittin bongs on our buckets waitin fer all this to unfurl D9......and for the record.....Watts per sq ft don`t mean dick without environment dialed so I feel yas Bro......and....
I ran 34 watts per sq ft for almost a decade with krusty buckets and 10 lb rooms consistently EVERY run....but....
I had Krusty and Heath both bitchin me out ta up things ta 50 watts per , and when I did with my ebb and flow bucket flip rooms.......
The same cut I`d been runnin for almost 10 yrs outside before I ran her inside with krusty`s another almost 10 yrs was as different as daylight and dark as far as trichome production , nug density , and overall increased quality across the board...
Yield increased some but not measurably , but as God is my witness the finished product looked like 2 different varieties when I only had 1.....anyways....
All about budget and requirements I suppose.....Now....back to our regularly scheduled program...and...Thanks for the in depth thread Bro....
Respect....DHF....
.....stagehand099
Member
Wow....Less than 30 watts per sq ft with cooltubes ,
All about budget and requirements I suppose.....Now....back to our regularly scheduled program...and...Thanks for the in depth thread Bro....
Respect....DHF....
Not answering for D9, but I'm pretty sure its more about requirements and less about budget. He has a uMOL meter and has been pushing the limit of the par numbers that a plant can even use in his earlier grows. The way he trains and ties, he presents a plant profile that's exposed to close to max usable light. The watts per sq. ft. paradigm doesn't really fit this kind (vert) of cultivation, imo. Watts per sq. ft. is useful for horizontal with hoods/reflectors only, again, imo.
I think his new room with many PPK's is gonna blow some effin' minds around here...........
stagehand
D
DHF
Once optimum watts per sq ft and plant requirements are brought together along with perfect environment for the plants to perform as in natural surroundings under the big metal halide in the sky when runnin indoors...
Then yas`ve done somethin......and.....that`s as good as it gets....but....
I fully agree with great things wanted all up in here , and please don`t take offense to me questioning his efforts , cuz I ALWAYS do with anyone`s setup to make em question their ways to improve it.....
Peace....DHF....
.....
D
disciple
D
disciple
“So is the title meant to be a double entendre or is that just a coincidence? lol... Pullin up my bucket.”
why, I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to, suh! Welcome aboard!
“Amazing things shall happen here” if it works. I may just make a big mess!
“you bastard.” aaarrgh! Prepare to repel boarders!
“catches fire less easily than rope..” there you go with that safety shit again! Thank you!
“d9 are they homemade flips if so wheres the tute lol?” howdy, dark helmet! I followed HL's instructions from the link bearing his handle below. Thank you!
why, I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to, suh! Welcome aboard!
“Amazing things shall happen here” if it works. I may just make a big mess!
“you bastard.” aaarrgh! Prepare to repel boarders!
“catches fire less easily than rope..” there you go with that safety shit again! Thank you!
“d9 are they homemade flips if so wheres the tute lol?” howdy, dark helmet! I followed HL's instructions from the link bearing his handle below. Thank you!
"Wow....Less than 30 watts per sq ft with cooltubes , and Disciple runnin his shit next to nuclear proportions with bare bulbs and angled adjust-a-wings..."
hey, fred! i am not exactly in a medical situation so electrical consumption is a big deal to me until i can generate.
also, i don't think in terms of watts per sq ft or lumens anymore since getting a par meter.
calculating watts per canopy sq ft is almost impossible because of the uneven nature of a plant canopy, trained or not.
so i intend to try some ideas that i have about light application and the plants responses to it.
we can start with dr el sohly's paper from the university of mississippi. this paper is the first one to my knowledge that actually quantifies the maximum photosynthetic rate for cannabis and how to achieve it. if you grow weed and you have not read this paper you really need to. it is an eye opener.
"Photosynthetic response of Cannabis sativa L. to variations in photosynthetic photon flux densities, temperature and CO2 conditions"
here is the abstract;
"Published online: 26 February 2009
Abstract Effect of different photosynthetic photon flux densities (0, 500, 1000, 1500 and 2000 μmol m−2s−1), temperatures (20, 25, 30, 35 and 40 °C) and CO2 concentrations (250, 350, 450, 550, 650 and 750 μmol mol−1) on gas and water vapour exchange characteristics of Cannabis sativa L. were studied to determine the suitable and efficient environmental conditions for its indoor mass cultivation for pharmaceutical uses. The rate of photosynthesis (PN) and water use efficiency (WUE) of Cannabis sativa increased with photosynthetic photon flux densities (PPFD) at the lower temperatures (20–25 °C). At 30 °C, PN and WUE increased only up to 1500 μmol m−2s−1 PPFD and decreased at higher light levels. The maximum rate of photosynthesis (PN max) was observed at 30 °C and under 1500 μmol m−2s−1 PPFD. The rate of transpiration (E) responded positively to increased PPFD and temperature up to the highest levels tested (2000 μmol m−2s−1 and 40 °C). Similar to E, leaf stomatal conductance (gs) also increased with PPFD irrespective of temperature. However, gs increased with temperature up to 30 °C only. Temperature above 30 °C had an adverse effect on gs in this species. Overall, high temperature and high PPFD showed an adverse effect on PN and WUE. A continuous decrease in intercellular CO2 concentration (Ci) and therefore, in the ratio of intercellular CO2 to ambient CO2 concentration (Ci/Ca) was observed with the increase in temperature and PPFD. However, the decrease was less pronounced at light intensities above 1500 μmol m−2s−1. In view of these results, temperature and light optima for photosynthesis was concluded to be at 25–30 °C and ∼1500 μmol m−2s−1 respectively. Furthermore, plants were also exposed to different concentrations of CO2 (250, 350, 450, 550, 650 and 750 μmol mol−1) under optimum PPFD and temperature conditions to assess their photosynthetic response. Rate of photosynthesis, WUE and Ci decreased by 50 %, 53 % and 10 % respectively, and Ci/Ca, E and gs increased by 25 %, 7 % and 3 % respectively when measurements were made at 250 μmol mol-1 as compared to ambient CO2 (350 μmol mol−1) level. Elevated CO2 concentration (750 μmol mol−1) suppressed E and gs ∼ 29% and 42% respectively, and stimulated PN, WUE and Ci by 50 %, 111 % and 115 % respectively as compared to ambient CO2 concentration. The study reveals that this species can be efficiently cultivated in the range of 25 to 30 °C and ∼1500 μmol m−2s−1 PPFD. Furthermore, higher PN, WUE and nearly constant Ci/Ca ratio under elevated CO2 concentrations in C. sativa, reflects its potential for better survival, growth and productivity in drier and CO2 rich environment."
i have the whole paper but the abstract is a good synopsis.
then i intend to explore management of the red/far red ratio using defoliation and light exposure to suppress the phytochrome b photoreceptor mediated plant response to both shade avoidance and stem elongation.
more on that later for sure.
hey, fred! i am not exactly in a medical situation so electrical consumption is a big deal to me until i can generate.
also, i don't think in terms of watts per sq ft or lumens anymore since getting a par meter.
calculating watts per canopy sq ft is almost impossible because of the uneven nature of a plant canopy, trained or not.
so i intend to try some ideas that i have about light application and the plants responses to it.
we can start with dr el sohly's paper from the university of mississippi. this paper is the first one to my knowledge that actually quantifies the maximum photosynthetic rate for cannabis and how to achieve it. if you grow weed and you have not read this paper you really need to. it is an eye opener.
"Photosynthetic response of Cannabis sativa L. to variations in photosynthetic photon flux densities, temperature and CO2 conditions"
here is the abstract;
"Published online: 26 February 2009
Abstract Effect of different photosynthetic photon flux densities (0, 500, 1000, 1500 and 2000 μmol m−2s−1), temperatures (20, 25, 30, 35 and 40 °C) and CO2 concentrations (250, 350, 450, 550, 650 and 750 μmol mol−1) on gas and water vapour exchange characteristics of Cannabis sativa L. were studied to determine the suitable and efficient environmental conditions for its indoor mass cultivation for pharmaceutical uses. The rate of photosynthesis (PN) and water use efficiency (WUE) of Cannabis sativa increased with photosynthetic photon flux densities (PPFD) at the lower temperatures (20–25 °C). At 30 °C, PN and WUE increased only up to 1500 μmol m−2s−1 PPFD and decreased at higher light levels. The maximum rate of photosynthesis (PN max) was observed at 30 °C and under 1500 μmol m−2s−1 PPFD. The rate of transpiration (E) responded positively to increased PPFD and temperature up to the highest levels tested (2000 μmol m−2s−1 and 40 °C). Similar to E, leaf stomatal conductance (gs) also increased with PPFD irrespective of temperature. However, gs increased with temperature up to 30 °C only. Temperature above 30 °C had an adverse effect on gs in this species. Overall, high temperature and high PPFD showed an adverse effect on PN and WUE. A continuous decrease in intercellular CO2 concentration (Ci) and therefore, in the ratio of intercellular CO2 to ambient CO2 concentration (Ci/Ca) was observed with the increase in temperature and PPFD. However, the decrease was less pronounced at light intensities above 1500 μmol m−2s−1. In view of these results, temperature and light optima for photosynthesis was concluded to be at 25–30 °C and ∼1500 μmol m−2s−1 respectively. Furthermore, plants were also exposed to different concentrations of CO2 (250, 350, 450, 550, 650 and 750 μmol mol−1) under optimum PPFD and temperature conditions to assess their photosynthetic response. Rate of photosynthesis, WUE and Ci decreased by 50 %, 53 % and 10 % respectively, and Ci/Ca, E and gs increased by 25 %, 7 % and 3 % respectively when measurements were made at 250 μmol mol-1 as compared to ambient CO2 (350 μmol mol−1) level. Elevated CO2 concentration (750 μmol mol−1) suppressed E and gs ∼ 29% and 42% respectively, and stimulated PN, WUE and Ci by 50 %, 111 % and 115 % respectively as compared to ambient CO2 concentration. The study reveals that this species can be efficiently cultivated in the range of 25 to 30 °C and ∼1500 μmol m−2s−1 PPFD. Furthermore, higher PN, WUE and nearly constant Ci/Ca ratio under elevated CO2 concentrations in C. sativa, reflects its potential for better survival, growth and productivity in drier and CO2 rich environment."
i have the whole paper but the abstract is a good synopsis.
then i intend to explore management of the red/far red ratio using defoliation and light exposure to suppress the phytochrome b photoreceptor mediated plant response to both shade avoidance and stem elongation.
more on that later for sure.
" I wonder what the labour factor would be like if instead of (6) or (12) lights, a garden was running (80) or (100) lights? Screens everywhere? maybe a 4-sided diamond light pattern to keep labour reasonable with only the outermost plants screened? Anyone have any thoughts?"
all you ppk'ers know what i'm about to try. this is just a simple version of it. somewhere up in the middle of this plant and light puzzle is a definitive answer. i think it will come from geometry and the application of measured light to different areas of the plant.
what exactly is the amount of light that turns a plant part into a producer instead of a sink?
how is assimilate prioritized and routed?
the research papers i have been reading indicate that there is just now emerging an understanding of these signaling pathways.
i think we can manipulate them to our benefit.
all you ppk'ers know what i'm about to try. this is just a simple version of it. somewhere up in the middle of this plant and light puzzle is a definitive answer. i think it will come from geometry and the application of measured light to different areas of the plant.
what exactly is the amount of light that turns a plant part into a producer instead of a sink?
how is assimilate prioritized and routed?
the research papers i have been reading indicate that there is just now emerging an understanding of these signaling pathways.
i think we can manipulate them to our benefit.
D
disciple
D
DHF
I love this thread.......and D9.......I LIVE to see yas manipulate the canopy and PAR levels that you`re goin by....
If I`ve never made a statement more than this I don`t know it.......
"More from less" sq ftg wise , and "Less is More" in nutrient regimens ppm wise....
So you gonna run the nets behind to Scrog big plants and allow the cooltubes to get closer to all limbs on the plants spread sideways on the walls for a specific depth canopy ?...
Breakin new ground you plant killers.....Got me a damn cushion to put on top of my bucket fer this un.......Ya`ll take this old dawg ta school and make me proud.....
Respect....Freds........
If I`ve never made a statement more than this I don`t know it.......
"More from less" sq ftg wise , and "Less is More" in nutrient regimens ppm wise....
So you gonna run the nets behind to Scrog big plants and allow the cooltubes to get closer to all limbs on the plants spread sideways on the walls for a specific depth canopy ?...
Breakin new ground you plant killers.....Got me a damn cushion to put on top of my bucket fer this un.......Ya`ll take this old dawg ta school and make me proud.....
Respect....Freds....
....hey in terms of Dr. el Sohly's work on Cannabis Sativa Linnaeus.... where does "variety Indica" fit into the picture?
"sativa" (as me and my uneducated farmer friends call it) grows differently from "indica". Strangely the people I interface with who use this stuff to treat pain all keep asking for Kush so I ask.... do you think his work applicable to the cultivation of shorter, denser mountainous strains vs. the distinctly different equatorial types?
ps. any chance you want to share some details of how you plan to veg and train your new garden? will you tie back starting in early veg? I know you're going to just drop some insane stuff on us (and it will be when it's least expected) but I'm so impatient. I also noticed the title of the thread and recall mention of a new pulse delivery system.... my impatience is killing me...
if you do feel inclined to drop a teaser... it would be cool to hear about the training/tying back procedure before we see it. I'm going over and over the labour factor for a larger garden. I just did a serious defoliation on those (16) plants and it took soooo long. That was a week ago... in full bloom... and guess what?.... They almost need it again now
I'm building up some more growing area and kind of have to commit ahead of time to how I'm going to grow the plants.... so far I'm kind of at (4) sided lighting through all areas with the outside plants lit on one side and tied back to their own individual screens in a manner similar to what you describe.
600W bulbs for me to keep veg times lower (smaller plants to take advantage of the smaller foot print of that bulb) and on (4) sides of each plant to reduce labor but I could very easily just run rows of lights with plants screened on either side. I'm loving the production I'm seeing right now with the row of lights (although my plants are not tied to screens) however the labor factor would be significant in a large garden.
thank you!
hey! i think they consider Cannabis indica to be a subspecies of Cannabis sativa L. it is shown as that on most taxonomic charts. who knows for sure?
i intend to power veg about 3 weeks, maybe 3.5. i want them to get over transplant and get roots to the bottom of the containers, which they will by then.
at the end of the first week i'll turn and readjust each plant according to what i perceive to be strong side/weak side. then break all branches into the same plane, which is right angled to the light. flattening and splitting open the plant.
at the same time i'll install stakes and fencing. i'm thinking a 6" mesh. the plants get pulled back to it and tied. i want to train major branches horizontally in the "espalier" method you showed me. thank you!
i think this is going to allow me to overlap plants in the light field. trying to keep it all as 2 dimensional as possible during stretch. defoliating as needed to maintain a high r/fr ratio at the bud sites.
i'm not really going to use a new pulse system. it will still be the same line but will have different terminals and manifold treatment. the sub system is still going to use the tire valves and latex connectors.
hey, fred! we are gonna have some fun here!
burns1n209
Member
Damn i hope this works out, ive been looking for a reason to switch to vert. This might be the icing on the cake. Nice setup so far, keep up good work
thank you!
I'm in!
