than you very much for that smoketrees the state of my poor head has grabbed onto that like a life preserver
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a 'true' male from S1 seeds?
- Thread starter igrowone
- Start date
than you very much for that smoketrees the state of my poor head has grabbed onto that like a life preserver
I have seeds growtech made with a s1 male. He made f2s, or s2s? Lol. I never popped any but it would be interesting to see what they produce
yeah, i'll probably won't ever be able to do good numbers, too small a grower - so far 2 good femmes, 1 bad hermie, and this male(maybe)
the hermie is worth a quick mention, it had a horrible taste, even in a vaporizer
and the thing actually made me sick, never had anything like it
True male in the sense that it has only male flowers. No herms. I don't know the science of it, but there are numerous growers and breeders who have found male plants in fem beans
they aren't males, there are plenty of threads on this. the science is simple, a plant inherits one sex chromosome from each parent, in S1's, 2 from the same parent. If that parent is female, then that means the offspring can only inherit x chromosomes, and cant inherit a Y. Therefore it cant be male.
I understand there are also documented cases of males found in reversed seed projects. I'm not going to argue with you, I'm merely posting the experience of myself and two real life friends. As well as what I have read from others.
Greyskull found a sour dubble male out of 300 sour dub s1s
Greyskull found a sour dubble male out of 300 sour dub s1s
NaturalSelector
New member
True. Except when nature screws up and this happens all the time. For every rule in genetics and evolution, particularly in plants, there is an exception. Take the into consideration the prevelace of polypliody plants. With thousands of years of artificial selection, Cannabis is bound to have some strange hidden genotypes and mutations. Even if it's one in a million, it is absolutely possible.
no you guys dont understand. Please stop filing the boards with bullshit. you are just repeating old bullshit someone else spouted to you trying to look like they knew what they were talking about. they didn't and neither do you. you are wrong its not up for debate its not a matter of opinion, its just fact. 1+1=2, males cant be found in seeds from reversed females, its just the way it is. Please stop confusing people, please stop trying to sound like you know anything, you are wrong its not possible. sheesh.
stickshift
Active member
Hahahaha... don't punch the screen like I'm about to punch my boss!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdbEFSrfSF0
a copy and paste from chim...
whole post here
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5341665&postcount=270
frito bandito
Member
wrong.
cannabis sativa does not use an X/Y system for sexual determination.
i can hear you saying now: "but but but....there is a Y chromosome!"
sure there is. yet, it's quite possible for a cannabis plant to have a Y chromosome and be female, or vice versa. that is because sexual expression in cannabis sativa (just like in hops) is determined by X/autosomal factors, not solely by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome.
yes it is entirely possible and normal to get a male plant from an S1'd female.
frito bandito
Member
hmm...isnt that exactly what you've been doing in this thread? repeating the same tired old incorrect bullshit you heard from others? talk about hypocrisy...and arrogance.
so it's the way you say it is and that's that, no debate possible? nice scientific attitude you got there.
it's not possible? then please explain how it has somehow managed to happen, and to many different people over the years? how many people have posted up on different forums over the years pissed off cause their "feminized" seeds turned out all male or whatever? they must just be making it all up? get a clue.
stickshift
Active member
IMO,
The Y and it's presence as a sex chromosome makes it male!. Whilst I believe the autosomes may contain a y (be it coding info and not sex chromosome, like you see with the sry gene) it is not the same. it is the presence of this y that would sway/change the flower morph.. from pistilite to stamens.. it's clear that stress is the trigger.. it acts like it's x/autosomal but the fact you see balls does not make it male as what is in those balls is still XX.. at least this is my limited understanding at present.. one thing when triggered over powers the other.. obviously not the case in all so like suggested before it could indicate a prob due to conflict, mutation etc.. so due to meiotic non-homologous recombination it is carried on the X.. all IMO
after you have put
does it suggest X linked then or that it's heritable.. and if heritable still a prob ??? or thru recombination can be cured???
http://labs.eeb.utoronto.ca/barrett...Bot Sexual dimorphism in flowering plants.pdf
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Science explains the motion of bodies, it doesn't accept that little fairies are pushing them around, it's not against science to say this is so, that isn't.
Now a diploid plant that contains 2 sex chromosomes will either contain one x and one y or 2 x's. 2 xs means its female one of each means its male. Forget about sativa or indica, its how it is. That is called science. Please dont confuse expression with the sex of a plant. expression is a different ball game than the sex of a plant. you may see what looks like a male that is infact a female, you may see what looks like a female that is infact a male. That happens when an error crops up somewhere. Errors do indeed crop up from time to time, but that does not mean that the science of sex is wrong.
I'm trying stickshift, I'm trying mate.
Now what most people get confused with is the autosomal regions. Those areas of the dna which arent contained within the sex chromosomes. This is the area where the instructions to produce the male flowers or the female flowers are contained. The sex chromosomes are responsible for turning these areas on or off, depending on whether the plant is male or female. This is how a female plant still contains the instructions necessary to produce male flowers. In healthy females, or what we have come to call true females, the genes responsible for producing male flowers are silenced or turned off. The genes responsible for producing female flowers are not silenced or are turned on. This produces the expression female. If this process is not happening correctly either due to errors cropping up in the sex chromosomes or the autosomes, then the male flowers will also be produced. In serious copying errors or through the inheritance of miscopied dna, then you may not see the female flowers being expressed at all, the expression is entirely male. However, that does not mean that a plant that expresses maleness, ie produces male flowers and not female flowers, is male.
Now a diploid plant that contains 2 sex chromosomes will either contain one x and one y or 2 x's. 2 xs means its female one of each means its male. Forget about sativa or indica, its how it is. That is called science. Please dont confuse expression with the sex of a plant. expression is a different ball game than the sex of a plant. you may see what looks like a male that is infact a female, you may see what looks like a female that is infact a male. That happens when an error crops up somewhere. Errors do indeed crop up from time to time, but that does not mean that the science of sex is wrong.
I'm trying stickshift, I'm trying mate.
Now what most people get confused with is the autosomal regions. Those areas of the dna which arent contained within the sex chromosomes. This is the area where the instructions to produce the male flowers or the female flowers are contained. The sex chromosomes are responsible for turning these areas on or off, depending on whether the plant is male or female. This is how a female plant still contains the instructions necessary to produce male flowers. In healthy females, or what we have come to call true females, the genes responsible for producing male flowers are silenced or turned off. The genes responsible for producing female flowers are not silenced or are turned on. This produces the expression female. If this process is not happening correctly either due to errors cropping up in the sex chromosomes or the autosomes, then the male flowers will also be produced. In serious copying errors or through the inheritance of miscopied dna, then you may not see the female flowers being expressed at all, the expression is entirely male. However, that does not mean that a plant that expresses maleness, ie produces male flowers and not female flowers, is male.
stickshift
Active member
me too, only 5 mins to go til punch up time!!! yeah i'm serious.. fight night with my soon to be ex boss...
frito bandito
Member
you keep using this word "science", which does not mean what you seem to think it means. what you described is not how cannabis sexual selection works. it works by autosomal factors. that is, stress factors in the environment determine sex ratios. more stress = more males, generally. all of this is genetically determined on the X chromosome. the Y contains modifier genes which generally make a plant more predisposed to becoming male, but the presence of this chromosome does not guarantee maleness.
frito bandito
Member
this, in a nutshell, is the problem with your thinking. you act like a plant producing both male and female flowers is an "error." it's not though. it's completely natural. in your mind the sexually segregated plants are "normal", but the fact is cannabis sativa is a subdioecious plant. that means it contains both male, female, and hermaphrodite plants--all of which are normal. male = normal. female = normal. hermie = normal. the development of one type of flower vs another has nothing to do with "genetic error." it's simply a trait, like any other. if you don't like hermies that is your problem, not the plant's problem; it doesn't make the plant any less "normal." the "X" chromosome contains genes to produce both type of flowers, male and female. the plant can become either sex and it makes its determination early on life. a XX plant can become a male just as surely as an XY can be a female, and there is nothing "abnormal" about it.
I don't think selection is an accurate word as it implies a conscious decision or choice. I do think that science is an appropriate word, as it indicates the knowledge gained from systematical study in a controlled environment. But lets not get bogged down with semantics. Stress does not determine sexual inheritance, stress may in some cases determine sexual expression, as I have said, these are different. A Y chromosome does indeed guarantee maleness, it does not guarantee male expression.
