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a 'true' male from S1 seeds?
- Thread starter igrowone
- Start date
CreeperStipule
Active member
The only time this occurs is with monoecious plants or intersex, why would you want them? I get the point from the likes of TomHill that if it is a good smoke then wht's the prob etc... and well fine if it's just smoked...
but these X-auto are about 5 to 10 per cent across a female population and about what 1:500-1000 show as full males... but dioecious populations are still X:Y
CreeperStipule
Active member
Why would you if both are female?
They do indeed represent a far smaller percentage of the global population. They are their own familial lines. Have their own mechanisms, and must be looked at separately. They are not all monoecious, few are. I don't and have never recommended anyone to play with them. You really have to know your stuff to not end up in a mess with X to auto.
CreeperStipule
Active member
Perhaps I should start by saying my current thinking is -No you were right that was my attempt at a compliment.
What I meant was, cannabis would have been dioecious imo, prior to domestication, if were so simple as copying error, for dioecy is certainly the default. For the simple reason that a male plant can produce more pollen than an intersex individual, and over not much time in evolution, completely take over - but it hasn't, not by a long shot ime. And I think that supports a more complex situation going on. But this is maybe rather off the course maybe, and I shouldn't let my eye twitching due to our differing guesses on that particular section of subject derail the train too badly, my apologies sir.
So we now know cannabis is old, I think I read it's genome or sex chromosome is something like 26 million years old or older and likely been dioecious for a v long time, has the oldest sex chromosomes so far found in plants, now what if it is isn't copy error but just an age thing and this is were it is at, as in the Y is degenerating and being replaced by the Intersex female or that dioecy can go to shit fast with a lack of Y.
My thinking is they're ancestral and on the autosomes all the mechs for male production but no Y and as autosomal we get differing specimens via hormonal response.
Since most of modern day breeding has been in limited numbers and indoor I'm pretty sure humans have swayed populations, how would it look in a wild population? like you posted males would have an advantage over the wider population due to height, more pollen dispersal etc, have you or anyone noticed that intersexual plants are a bit smaller? (specific to height) and the pollen seems different to me (perhaps wishful thinking), do wild populations even exist now?
I read that over the shorter term there's not much variance between a intersex (selfed sub population) and outcrossed, I think slight higher values for the latter.
I speculate on the intersexes being smaller due to either inbreeding or as I think they just put too much effort into both sexes and it stunts them.
It does appear to more complex than some sort of mutation like CMS though.
Maybe like the models of plants evolving from monoecy to dioecy suggest the male goes at some point, maybe this intersex is the bastard that takes over?! it has everything but the Y
@GMT what do you class as the 3rd type if not mono? and where did it come from if not from mono ancestors? do you think it is a mutation from the Y?
anyway waffling now....
PolyChucker
Active member
I had a “true” XX male if you want to call it that.
I had a nice purple lady - she had seeds - I didn’t know where the seeds came from - could be self pollination.
I sprouted 50 seeds got 5 males. What a good ratio!
Of these males, I picked the top 3 of them and matched them up with females based on body type (thinking matching a narrow leaf female with narrow leaf male etc. would be a good idea.)
Only one of the males - the biggest and best looking was actually fertile.
I kept a clone of this male for about a year and was sifting through his offspring. 90% were female and the males never looked right and there was every configuration of herm at around 10%. The offspring were mostly not amazing so when the male cutting I was saving got spider mites, I decided to let him go.
The 10% ratio kept popping up and I now believe that there is roughly 10% of plants that can “switch teams”. Have you ever separated males and females, only to have one of them in each group seem to switch to the opposite sex? I think if you left them all together they wouldn’t switch - I think somehow they can tell that there’s only males or only females and one who has the special ability will switch.
The reason I called it a “true” XX male is because I had it for over a year and it never popped a single pistil - it had balls and wouldn’t stop producing pollen despite being on 18hr mild light in the backup clone zone. So it looked absolutely like a rock solid dude and the only way you could tell it wasn’t was because of the consistent offspring it produced. I grew out at least 200 of these seeds and they were always like that - mostly female with some herms.
I had a nice purple lady - she had seeds - I didn’t know where the seeds came from - could be self pollination.
I sprouted 50 seeds got 5 males. What a good ratio!
Of these males, I picked the top 3 of them and matched them up with females based on body type (thinking matching a narrow leaf female with narrow leaf male etc. would be a good idea.)
Only one of the males - the biggest and best looking was actually fertile.
I kept a clone of this male for about a year and was sifting through his offspring. 90% were female and the males never looked right and there was every configuration of herm at around 10%. The offspring were mostly not amazing so when the male cutting I was saving got spider mites, I decided to let him go.
The 10% ratio kept popping up and I now believe that there is roughly 10% of plants that can “switch teams”. Have you ever separated males and females, only to have one of them in each group seem to switch to the opposite sex? I think if you left them all together they wouldn’t switch - I think somehow they can tell that there’s only males or only females and one who has the special ability will switch.
The reason I called it a “true” XX male is because I had it for over a year and it never popped a single pistil - it had balls and wouldn’t stop producing pollen despite being on 18hr mild light in the backup clone zone. So it looked absolutely like a rock solid dude and the only way you could tell it wasn’t was because of the consistent offspring it produced. I grew out at least 200 of these seeds and they were always like that - mostly female with some herms.
@PolyChucker my best guess, you're working with type 2 plants. X to autosome sexually determining.
Randy Lahey
Active member
Love how threads start off with actual people discussing things/asking questions and then a troll comes in, starts shit....and by the end is just talking back and forth with themselves with multiple accounts for like 5 pages to make themselves look good..... seriously STFU 
Randy Lahey
Active member
Yes.... You can get a true male from S1 seed.... The chances are without a doubt extremely LOWER!!
But....it does happen.
But....it does happen.
