a ppk for a 6 plant limit

[av8or]

+1

Thanks fellas. Same to you, McKush!

 

[JamesFarmer]

Hey Everyone,

I am having a nute problem after switching to Jack's. I drained and filled my 6 site system in my veg room. My water was t 80ppm and I added equal volumes of Jack's & CalNit to bring the TDS up to 680ppm.

Today I found what appears to me to be pH related issues on two of the girls in veg. See the pics below. I checked TDS & pH and found 5.99pH and 497ppm.

I was tempted to drain, flush & refill. I decided to add nutes back to 680ppm and ask for help instead....

I have a second issue with one of my clones that I am prepping for PPK since switching to Jack's. It is in Turface in my flood & drain system. It was happy with my old nutes and doing well. Toda I looked and found that the new growth leaves look strange. They are not serrated on the edges. Instead they are smooth (see pic) I have never seen anything like it.

Please let me know what you think?

Thanks!!!

FJ

 

[JamesFarmer]

I have been researching, and while it looks to me like typical pH issues that I have seen in the past, I am getting the idea that it may be due to overwatering.


The pump on this system is a bit undersized. I was running it 15 minutes every 3 hours and the plants looked dry so I bumped it to alternating 15min/30min every 3 hours.

 

[mufinman]

15 minutes? that pump better be verrry small or yes overwatering. I get smooth leaves once in a while, don't know why but they seem to go away after vegging a week or two.

equal parts of J+CN? by meter or weight/tsps.?

 

[SecondAttempt]

equal parts by volume is okay

 

[av8or]

Hey Everyone,

I am having a nute problem after switching to Jack's. I drained and filled my 6 site system in my veg room. My water was t 80ppm and I added equal volumes of Jack's & CalNit to bring the TDS up to 680ppm.

Today I found what appears to me to be pH related issues on two of the girls in veg. See the pics below. I checked TDS & pH and found 5.99pH and 497ppm.

I was tempted to drain, flush & refill. I decided to add nutes back to 680ppm and ask for help instead....

I have a second issue with one of my clones that I am prepping for PPK since switching to Jack's. It is in Turface in my flood & drain system. It was happy with my old nutes and doing well. Toda I looked and found that the new growth leaves look strange. They are not serrated on the edges. Instead they are smooth (see pic) I have never seen anything like it.

Please let me know what you think?

Thanks!!!

FJ

Hmmmm, if I were to guess, I'd say there's a potential root problem. Root aphids maybe? It's as if the plant isn't drinking proper. Without the tell tale drooping or reddish veins or you noticing wet media, I highly doubt it's too much water.

Hormones will cause mutating leaves and even sex reversal. If something is deteriorating your root zone for whatever reason, the hormones would be out of whack and could cause your symptoms. Have you seen any tiny little black crawly things anywhere? The tend to crawl on the media and the side walls of the bucket.

 

[JamesFarmer]

15 minutes? that pump better be verrry small or yes overwatering. I get smooth leaves once in a while, don't know why but they seem to go away after vegging a week or two.

equal parts of J+CN? by meter or weight/tsps.?

Equal volume.

 

[JamesFarmer]

Hmmmm, if I were to guess, I'd say there's a potential root problem. Root aphids maybe? It's as if the plant isn't drinking proper. Without the tell tale drooping or reddish veins or you noticing wet media, I highly doubt it's too much water.

Hormones will cause mutating leaves and even sex reversal. If something is deteriorating your root zone for whatever reason, the hormones would be out of whack and could cause your symptoms. Have you seen any tiny little black crawly things anywhere? The tend to crawl on the media and the side walls of the bucket.

No sign of any critters at all.

 

[delta9nxs]

I just received my Jack's nutes and started replacing nutes in my systems following the direction above.

The first system I filled with 80ppm tap water and added Jacks/Calnit in equal volumes until I reached 680ppm. The pH landed at 6.32.

The second system I filled with a mix of tap & rain water @68ppm and added Jacks/Calnit to 670ppm. The pH landed at 5.62.

You said "don't look at your pH". I have been so "pH driven" for the last 5 years that I am having a tough time not reaching for the pH Up & pH Down....

Are these results normal? Am I overlooking anything?

Thanks again for all of the help.

FJ

this sounds to me like you are mixing a spoon of jack's and a spoon of calcinit, then another spoon of jacks and another spoon of calcinit until you reach your target ppm.

if so this is wrong and could potentially cause some precipitation.

the correct way is to put all of the jack's portion in first and then add all of the calcinit.

so, with your tap ppm of 80 just add 360 ppm jack's bringing it to a total of 440 ppm then add the 240 ppm of calcinit to that. if you have counted the number of spoons of jack's you needed just add the same number of spoons of calcinit and you should be in the ball park.

as the all the elements are not fully dissolved immediately after mixing taking ph readings then won't tell the truth. wait 24 hours and you should have a more accurate idea.

this does look like root problems to me. are you putting anything else in the reservoir?

with 80 ppm tap water i wouldn't even ph down initially. just the jack's and calcinit until you figure out what is going on with the plants.

 

[JamesFarmer]

this sounds to me like you are mixing a spoon of jack's and a spoon of calcinit, then another spoon of jacks and another spoon of calcinit until you reach your target ppm.

if so this is wrong and could potentially cause some precipitation.

the correct way is to put all of the jack's portion in first and then add all of the calcinit.

so, with your tap ppm of 80 just add 360 ppm jack's bringing it to a total of 440 ppm then add the 240 ppm of calcinit to that. if you have counted the number of spoons of jack's you needed just add the same number of spoons of calcinit and you should be in the ball park.

as the all the elements are not fully dissolved immediately after mixing taking ph readings then won't tell the truth. wait 24 hours and you should have a more accurate idea.

this does look like root problems to me. are you putting anything else in the reservoir?

with 80 ppm tap water i wouldn't even ph down initially. just the jack's and calcinit until you figure out what is going on with the plants.

I have not been following the procedure you detailed. What I have been doing is:


I use two gallon jugs and add 5 scoops (provided with nutes) each into the jugs and a gallon of water & mix thoroughly.

I start the recirculating pump (re-tasked RDWC) and add 1 liter of CalNit solution and wait a few minutes for it to circulate then add 1 liter of Jacks solution and let it circulate for a couple of minutes. I test ppm and then repeat the procedure using smaller quantities of the two nute mixtures until I hit 680ppm.

If my process is prone to problems then I need to change to the one you outlined.

On another potential cause:
My veg and flower systems are both using the same model pump but the one on the veg system does not deliver nearly as much nute flow. I have disassembled and inspected the pump and cannot find anything wrong. I have ordered another pump.

I am running the plants in veg with the threaded plug installed in the tailpiece. When I move them to flower I remove the plug.

Due to the reduced flow of the pump in the veg system I increased the watering time on the veg system. While running GH nutes the veg plants looked great and I moved two of them to flower.

All was good until I switched to Jack's nutes. The plants in the flower system continued looking fine and the plants in veg developed issues.

Last night I reduced the watering time on the veg system. This morning the plants had "perked up" a bit. Reaching towards the lights instead of mild drooping. The necrosis has not gotten noticeably worse but they still look very heat stressed.

The highest temp in the room has been 82F and the temp on the surface of the top leaves, measured with an IR thermometer, has been 85F.

The big question: Nute problem? Lack of O2 in the root zone?Pythium?

Edit: I am not using any other nutes/additives. I do usually add .5ml of Clorox to the res every 7-10 days. I wasn't sure if I should continue this practice with PPK.

 

[av8or]

Heeeey James Farmer....so your nute mixing is all wrong boss. Here's the "scoop," as it were:

Stop mixing jacks and calnit in water individually. Mix Jacks FIRST to 360 ppm above ambient water ppm. Then, when that is dissolved, put in the Calnit. You add the same volume of calnit as jacks, which will bring you up an additional 240 ppm to a total of 600 ppm above ambient water ppm. Don't put any ph stuff in it. That's all you have to do.

Water first, Jacks second, Calnit third. Smoke a bowl. You're done.

By adding calnit first, you're creating a precipitation event in the water. It locks out salts in the jacks that can not be dissolved in the water once the calnit has been added. Also, premixing concentrated solutions of the jacks and calnit starts an endothermic chemical reaction. It takes up to 24 hours to get all the salts dissolved, even though it appears to our own eye that they are.

Stop putting anything in the res except jacks first, calnit second. No more bleach or anything else. This isn't like your typical hydro system and works on different principles. A balanced nutrient formula with mass bioavailability leads to healthy, large plants. Let's make this simple and see how things pan out before doing anything further in the nutrient department.

 

[delta9nxs]

I have not been following the procedure you detailed. What I have been doing is:


I use two gallon jugs and add 5 scoops (provided with nutes) each into the jugs and a gallon of water & mix thoroughly.

I start the recirculating pump (re-tasked RDWC) and add 1 liter of CalNit solution and wait a few minutes for it to circulate then add 1 liter of Jacks solution and let it circulate for a couple of minutes. I test ppm and then repeat the procedure using smaller quantities of the two nute mixtures until I hit 680ppm.

If my process is prone to problems then I need to change to the one you outlined.

On another potential cause:
My veg and flower systems are both using the same model pump but the one on the veg system does not deliver nearly as much nute flow. I have disassembled and inspected the pump and cannot find anything wrong. I have ordered another pump.

I am running the plants in veg with the threaded plug installed in the tailpiece. When I move them to flower I remove the plug.

Due to the reduced flow of the pump in the veg system I increased the watering time on the veg system. While running GH nutes the veg plants looked great and I moved two of them to flower.

All was good until I switched to Jack's nutes. The plants in the flower system continued looking fine and the plants in veg developed issues.

Last night I reduced the watering time on the veg system. This morning the plants had "perked up" a bit. Reaching towards the lights instead of mild drooping. The necrosis has not gotten noticeably worse but they still look very heat stressed.

The highest temp in the room has been 82F and the temp on the surface of the top leaves, measured with an IR thermometer, has been 85F.

The big question: Nute problem? Lack of O2 in the root zone?Pythium?

Edit: I am not using any other nutes/additives. I do usually add .5ml of Clorox to the res every 7-10 days. I wasn't sure if I should continue this practice with PPK.

i just want to add that you should dump your existing solution and only mix dry nutes into your mixing tank. please everyone stop using the concentrated stock solutions, it's a recipe for disaster.

wait at least a day to check ph.

 

[JamesFarmer]

Heeeey James Farmer....so your nute mixing is all wrong boss. Here's the "scoop," as it were:

Stop mixing jacks and calnit in water individually. Mix Jacks FIRST to 360 ppm above ambient water ppm. Then, when that is dissolved, put in the Calnit. You add the same volume of calnit as jacks, which will bring you up an additional 240 ppm to a total of 600 ppm above ambient water ppm. Don't put any ph stuff in it. That's all you have to do.

Water first, Jacks second, Calnit third. Smoke a bowl. You're done.

By adding calnit first, you're creating a precipitation event in the water. It locks out salts in the jacks that can not be dissolved in the water once the calnit has been added. Also, premixing concentrated solutions of the jacks and calnit starts an endothermic chemical reaction. It takes up to 24 hours to get all the salts dissolved, even though it appears to our own eye that they are.

Stop putting anything in the res except jacks first, calnit second. No more bleach or anything else. This isn't like your typical hydro system and works on different principles. A balanced nutrient formula with mass bioavailability leads to healthy, large plants. Let's make this simple and see how things pan out before doing anything further in the nutrient department.

Thank you!!

I will follow the process you detailed for adding nutes. I had no clue that the order that I was adding the nutes could create a problem.

Unfortunately, I drained & refilled the system this afternoon using the wrong method... I know what I will be doing first thing in the morning....

Thank you again. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the sharing and mentoring that you and a number of other members here give to the community.

FJ.

 

[av8or]

For sure, brother. That's what we're here for! You're going to be very happy with the results of jacks once you get it swapped out and running for a few days. Looking forward to see the "after" pics!

 

[JamesFarmer]

For sure, brother. That's what we're here for! You're going to be very happy with the results of jacks once you get it swapped out and running for a few days. Looking forward to see the "after" pics!

The girls in flower running Jack's are looking much better than the ones in veg that I am having issues with.

Below are pics of the veg which has perked up a bit and of the plants in flower (1week & 2 weeks).

 

[Boutique Manettino]

The girls in flower running Jack's are looking much better than the ones in veg that I am having issues with.

Below are pics of the veg which has perked up a bit and of the plants in flower (1week & 2 weeks).

The plants (pics are named krip_veg1, krip_veg2 etc) in veg appear to be showing heat stress.

The edges of the leaves are curling up and the leaves themselves are angled up. They look as though they are straining upwards to release pressure but can't.

Some ways to fix this are to lower temperature at leaf surface by increasing ventilation, increasing cooling (if using AC), raise the light up away from the plant. You can also try adding (another) oscillating fan blowing across leaf surfaces although venting, cooling and moving the light should be the starting point.

By lowering the temperature, the plant will be able to grow and develop better.

 

[JamesFarmer]

The plants (pics are named krip_veg1, krip_veg2 etc) in veg appear to be showing heat stress.

The edges of the leaves are curling up and the leaves themselves are angled up. They look as though they are straining upwards to release pressure but can't.

Some ways to fix this are to lower temperature at leaf surface by increasing ventilation, increasing cooling (if using AC), raise the light up away from the plant. You can also try adding (another) oscillating fan blowing across leaf surfaces although venting, cooling and moving the light should be the starting point.

By lowering the temperature, the plant will be able to grow and d evelop better.

Thanks for the input.

When the problem began I was seeing a high temp of 82F and a surface temp on the upper leaves of 85F. I raised the lights a bit and set the outside air to run all night. The last couple days the high temp has been 72-74F.

RH has been 59-65percent.

 

[theplaya]

Would anyone by chance have close up pictures of the 3.5 gallon over 3.5 gallon with the holes drilled on the sides?

 

[Snook]

Would anyone by chance have close up pictures of the 3.5 gallon over 3.5 gallon with the holes drilled on the sides?

Whoa. are you reading the old 'Passive Plant Killer' thread? the holes went away couple/few years ago.. I did have some success with them though. I do not miss drilling all those holes. As I remember, the holes were drilled: 1st row, from the top down, 2"-3", spaced 2"-3" apart, completely around, next row, couple inches lower samey, samey... 4-5 rows. holes were ??? 7/16" or 1/2", cant remember which. My recollection could be off some but there wasn't much technical about the drilling process. Too many holes is not good. What do you think D9? Remember me why you stopped with the holes. I even had some success with a 3.5 (drilled) inside a 5 gallon bucket with a ??? 2"-3" tailpiece but too many roots in the water...

 

[theplaya]

I have the new setups now but am getting a ton of roots going down. This current run right now I am getting clogs. To the point where I had to remove the entire tail pipe for it to drain. So I thought maybe I can try the 3.5 buckets with the holes drilled to try and eliminate the clogging.