A Complete Guide to Topping, Training and Pruning

[Kodiak]

Thanks for pointing that out snuggles, the same thing hit me earlier today.

I think that the reason why that works is because the shoot is still intact on the branch. When the branch hits the ground, it starts growing roots because it comes in contact with moist soil. Perhaps it is also a way for the plant to provide the branch with more support.

Either way, you would end up with a plant that looks something like this:

This might not be too practical indoors but the technique has greater potential outdoors. You could create monster plants with several auxiliary root systems. I'm pretty sure though that they would not supply the main stem with energy, it would be directed towards the lateral branches. How much you would actually gain from from this remains to be seen.

This technique could however also be used indoors for creating clones. Once the branch has rooted, you just cut it somewhere and end up with another healthy plant.

 

[snuggles]

yes kodiak, that's exactly how it looked like (or how it would look like indoors in pots i guess). nice drawing btw
i also think that the new root systems doesn't supply the main stem actively. it's more like supplying through relieving the main stem and further through sharing at gaining the needed resources. but no empirical data on that, just my personal and subjective thoughts while seeing that plant growing.
and you are right about the outdoor potential. space is all you need. that super skunk in our greenhouse went up to a wonderful monsterbush.

i recently noticed an article about cloning on soil by that way, too. when the new rooted sidebranch is strong and healthy enough to grow on its own, cut the connecting "motherbranch" from the main plant and that's it!
however, i didn't see anything like that in soil-less medium like correls or rockwool so far.

rgds,
snuggles

 

[straintester]

Regular gardener's often use this method to reproduce some of their favourite perennials

 

[ERVABUE]

after my fim and topping attempts

after my fim and topping attempts

Hi Kodiak is always a pleasure to visit this thread and now almost a month later leave here my Super lemon hazes and a kush b4 and after attempt fim at hazes and topped the 'giant' kush,here's the pictures :

Kodiak I am thinking in keep them in vegetative yet a while to go for clones...have them under a 125w cfl blue and added a red now,my question is if they can desploit flowering even in a 14/10 hours light...or is part of the plant natural life to start to form hairs at 2 months?or have the red light any influence?I started them in 13/11 for the first month...

finished my first thread in the portuguese sub forum too,the black jacks...

 

[Kodiak]

Hi ERVABUE

Looks good. You should perhaps have topped the sativa dominant plants a bit further down because they will grow quite tall. Those plants will stretch when they start flowering so you will have to figure out how to keep them in check. You managed to get the nodes close to each other though, so that's a good thing.

I see that you have some green bars running horizontally through the grow room. You could try to bend the Haze around them and start LST'ing. You could also add a scrog net above the bars so that when the plants have made the loop around them, you can redirect them in way that covers the entire grow area.

If you keep them in veg for another month or so, they will have time to make a loop around the bars and grow back up again. That way you can keep them a bit shorter without removing any growth. While the tops are tied down during LST, the other shoots will also elongate and grow faster. That will supply you with plenty of clones and also help to fill up the scrog net.

Just an idea but it might be your only chance to successfully LST them now. Although you might have room for them to grow, the problem is that the low wattage cfl's will not be able to supply the lower part of the plants with light. On the other hand, if you do have the space for them to grow taller and extra cfl's, you could provide the lower canopy with light that way.

Perhaps they just look taller than what they really are but you get the idea. The SLH is apparently a slow vegger and a big stretcher, so you might have to figure something out. If you can get away with just scrogging them, that's another option

Many plants won't start flowering under 14/10 but it's possible because it's so close to 12/12. The 13/11 light schedule that you used at first might have something to do with it. I believe that the environment "programs" the plants accordingly, meaning that the same clone grown in a different environment will also take on a different appearance. What that means is that your plants will react to the treatment that you are giving them. They'll adapt. Since you started out with 13/11, they might just be sticking to "the plan" although you turned back the clock an hour. I hope that made some sense.

The indica plants will be more likely begin flowering first, some early varieties are even known to flower under 18/6 although they might not be that many. Flowering is mostly triggered by the photoperiod but also to some degree by age. Plants that reach a certain age will be sexually mature and ready to flower. They sense that it is time although the photoperiod might not be quite right. Outdoors, the seasons are precise like clockwork and that is what the plants are used to. They will probably won't switch to full bloom until you shorten the day a bit.

The red light and flowering nutes will both promote flowering to some degree.

You could start with 12/12 at first and then shorten the day to 11/13 later on. That will help the Super Lemon Haze along. I would however wait until the Kush is mostly done before I made the switch. The Haze might go much longer, depending on the phenotype.

The flowering times stated by the breeder reflect optimal conditions so you should always be flexible.

 

[ERVABUE]

After first fim

After first fim

Hi Kodiak thanks for your suport once again,this things of plants and leading with them,must be done with a constant approach to their needs all over they natural curse of life.will accept the sugestion of the extra light for the lower layers and tied them to the side suporting frame,that is a staging greenhouse cabinet,also thinking in to buy another of the same to stag along and give them all room,yea the kush have to go to flowering soon(her and the 2 SLH have same age but the indica pheno desevolved more quikly that the haze)as only have that blue 125 cfl and is a red of same wattage waiting for since the end of my first great adventure with the BJ's,nice smoke that is just on hand...really strong and a few of the flavours given by sweet seeds,u know just the parents say all as u well said before,Kodiak,may go as they will for a while yet before Lst them...
So you think than the SLH that I read they say supports a topping better in flowering stage,that would be better instead top(that w'll b double after fim) them now...that can open chance for another topping before take clones...am I too wrong...?my friend will try to post some more explicit pics of my plants and their ambient soon...stay well,thank you and enjoy ur smoke ,I am enjoying mine,and never tasted so nice...cheers

 

[Kodiak]

Yeah, your plants could use a bit more light. You should consider buying one more flowering bulb. I've used both 125w and 250w cfl's and the latter are much better and brighter. They are not that much bigger in size than the 125w ones but they do run a bit hotter. Still pretty cool compared to the HPS.

One big light is not necessarily better for every setup than two smaller ones although the bigger one will penetrate further. The light from two different sources covers a greater area and also produce less heat. You could try 2 x 125w to begin with since you already own one.

Potency is genetically determined but the development of bud and trichomes depends largely on the environment. If you add a few more lights to the grow, you will also see a big difference in performance.

If you have already topped the SLH, I would veg and LST them for a while longer before flowering them. I'm not so sure that I would top them in flowering but see how it goes and do as you see best.

Enjoy that first harvest. I'm sure that it's good smoke.

 

[ERVABUE]

Let them veg for longer...

Let them veg for longer...

Hi Kodik thanks again for be with me so swift with your reply and once more...realy appreciate your dedication...you a star man,now I took a few more pictures just now august 9th,and they going since 4th june,think that they still small for their living and now when start to flower the kush have to stop leaf feed her...
I have 2 other lights of red spectrum of 20w equivalents 100w each,don't really understand this equivalents but is what the box says...the important should be all lumens together as well think...so will use them,and maybe go for a bigger CFL soon too,all lamps already paid themselves ...
Probably I'll start with a thread for them then than get a bit time more,yours for the beguining that I have it bookmaked,and as been of a essencial and accurated help,my friend...:thank
and gonna veg them longer,the s.lemon...
you:

 

[Kodiak]

You can use the 20w cfl's as long as the colour temp is 2700K (warm white). I have 6 x 30w in a small cab for seed projects and it's enough for the plants, altohugh they stretch a bit at first.

You learn new stuff as you go along so it's not a bad idea to improve on your setup between every grow. Little by little you are dialing it in and soon enough you'll end up with something that works really well.

 

[ERVABUE]

building a set up for life!

building a set up for life!

hi Kodiak,
gona tell you,did'nt had in total weight of the two BJ's one once or close(did'nt really weight it,but know...), in the 4 months... but certainly worth all the time with them...Now,at this time and have some 3 grams left of stash of the last plant in the jar,think that is just a shame that did'nt let it appure better in cure,now that have less is when is more powerful ...time to learn,anyway my very first smoke is burning ...at time,have a dry taste and you feel that is the effects,jack herer black D,could be the proper description of race,strong indica and powerful sativa inspiration mix at times... ,only 'secundary' the real powerful high that this should have after a proper cure process..not really insence of catedral but that should be just me,taste to some wood too...even fruits...well think with my better investment on them would come just like the tin says...as think it is for all...
....
Anyway what I really want is to
thank you Kodiak,and will post you up any doubt of more care with my grow,know that have here the good views to my probs resolutions....
hope karma take care of you same way
and yes Kodiak,is and still worth every day with such a delicate living being,Canabis .just a flower .

 

[Kodiak]

Thanks for the good words

Best of luck with your new grow. I'm sure that you will take good care of your plants.

 

[ERVABUE]

I'll do my best

I'll do my best

I'll do my best,Kodiak,after all they will treat of me just the same way than I treat them...and the Bj's paid me all with interest...well your and other threads here helped too...cheers Kodiak

 

[sakone]

just curious if crushing the main stem maybe 3/4 nodes ande twiswting them to where u would pinch tops well my partner did this and also used a razor blades new for each -2-3 in part he crushed and talk about 6 main colas the size of giant ears or corn. Blows my mind trying for the first time now and already is propa!! Suckas
Experimet after all it is a hard to kill weed.

 

[Kodiak]

I'm not sure if you are talking about topping, super cropping or both.

I would concentrate on a few main colas like your friend did. I think that you can super crop the plant while it is quite young because the plant can repair the damage so quickly.

The important thing is to pinch all the tops equally so that nothing becomes dominant. You could start by pinching the main shoot and then work your way down. The plant will react as if the tops were removed and start sending the lower shoots upwards. If you veg the plant for a longer time, you can also repeat the procedure several times for even greater results. The vascular tissue will grow stronger at the breaking point so the branch will be able to support more weight and also transport a greater amount of nutrients.

Not all plants will react to the treatment in the same way. Super cropping might give you a bushy plant with many shoots but if you want to concentrate on a few strong ones, you might have to remove some of the weaker branches that will only use up vital energy. There is however no hurry to decide so take your time.

Topping the plant on the other hand will also cause it to spread out like a bush with several shoots. The more you top it, the bigger it grows. Every time you top it, you get a greater number of shoots. You can use a razor blade to top the plant but in the end it makes little difference how you do it. Topping the plant past the 4th or 5th node is generally considered safe. I usually wait for some growth at the lower nodes before I top the plant. Topping goes well with LST'ing.

Besides more bud, what you want is more control over your plants and both techniques will provide that. You could also scrog the plants at the same time. That way you can redirect the tops in any way that you see fit. It is not necessary but it might be a good idea to provide the branches with some kind of support while they are healing. Adding a scrog net is a good solution because then you don't have to mess around with string.

Experiment, good results come from trial and error.

Just give the plant the time it needs to adapt to the technique and you'll be fine.

 

[michaeljordan]

So if the buds don't need direct light, why would you bother tying them down so the lower buds receive light. You're saying buds don't get energy from direct light, then you're saying it would be beneficial. There is something wrong with this logic. Are you placating the defoliators out there?

 

[Kodiak]

I should have been more precise. What I meant to say was that the primary function of the floral structures is to produce seeds. They are specialized structures just like leaves, which primary function is to photosynthesize.

Both the large fan leaves and the smaller leaves found on the bud actively participate in photosynthesis. The big leaves have the greatest surface area and also contain the highest concentrations of chloroplasts (which in turn contains chlorophyll), so I suspect that they do most of the work. When you remove all the big leaves, the plant sometimes tries to convert some of the smaller leaves on the bud into fan leaves. That must mean that they are in fact needed in order for the plant to function properly.

I think that it might be a case of local vs. general food production. The leaves on the bud help to supply it with energy but the energy created in the fan leaves can be transported to any part of the plant. The leaves also contain photosensitive cells that tell the plant how much light each shoot gets.

When the shoots are shaded the plant will elongate the branches. This means that it will concentrate on growing stems, which results in longer internodes. This is counterproductive since what we want is more bud. By allowing the light to reach the lower buds, your plants will not spend precious energy on building parts that are of no use to you.

 

[Kodiak]

I added new stuff to the guide and rewrote parts of it to match what has been discussed on the thread so far.

Enjoy

 

[use]

Thanks for sharing some great information.

 

[Inkster]

Thanks! Perfect timing for me too! lol

 

[Ted Shred]

Thank You Kodiac. I just started some hazey sativas so this info is a big help.

Thanks again!