A Change of Heart: Prop 19

[rives]

I am starting to think that much of the opposition to 19 is a generational thing. For all of the people that came of age in the last 20 years or so, instant gratification is the norm. They have been trained that there is no need to do things incrementally. When credit was loose, they could have the fancy cars, big trucks, and nice houses without earning them. Need to do some research? Jump on the internet. Libraries are way too time consuming. Need to call someone? Cell phone. Try and find a pay phone now. Unfortunately, the credit lifestyle has come to a screetching halt, and there are still things (legislation, for instance) that take place very slowly. A change of this magnitude is not going to happen in a single piece of legislation. It has been damn near 40 years since the last time it went to the polls, and you guys want to hold out for the perfect, all-encompassing answer? Pretty naïve.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

see I'm medical and I follow the rules, I've been screwed over and honestly my life has suffered in many different ways because of LEO. If I'm a legit medical user following the rules, and I still get harassed, whats to stop them from harassing the massive influx of recreational users as well? "its law, the cops need to respect it" hahah yeah tell that to everyone who's caught charges since '96.

with the jargon in the bill written the way it is, its going to give leo new angles to prosecute, sure you can have pot, but if you don't follow the rules, or if they even suspect you aren't following the rules, I hope you have weeks of time and money to burn because court is fucking bullshit. Oh you're innocent? that's okay, still you're expense to prove it.

you think you're just going to skip around town with an ounce in your pocket burning J's the whole time and nobody will give a shit? Some of you are so naive simply because you've never dealt directly with LEO.

HEY IVE BEEN FUCKED WITH BY COPS, DRUG ENFORCEMENT AGENTS, HOMELAND SECURITY AND CALIFORNIA unHIGHWAY PATROL.

i really dont understand this bullshit AT ALL. want to stop getting arrested and thrown in jail to wait for a judge to shit on your life>???

then legalize the god damn shit. how fucking hard is this to understand???? you sound like one of those fat people at mcdonalds scarffing down cheeseburgers and asking why are you getting so damn fat

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

PROP. 19 + ASSMELBY BILL ABX6-9 = FULL LEGALIZATION IN CALIFORNIA

PROP. 19 + ASSMELBY BILL ABX6-9 = FULL LEGALIZATION IN CALIFORNIA

so whats gonna happen when DEA wants to fuck with you? regardless of amount possessed?

still illegal right?

so since MMJ/215 wasn't amending the CSA (controlled substances act) because its through a Dr. its technically 'legal', however if you legalize recreational pot, that would be amending the CSA or in violation of the CSA.... right?

so unless federal law changes, how is this going to change anything from some rogue cop that hates weed and is cross sworn as DEA from dragging your ass through the system?

you think they follow protocol for respecting the voter enacted laws? tell that to all the legit medical patients that have been screwed over by the justice (or lack thereof) system.

See this is why I dont understand the NOs reasoning. Its almost as if, well if we cant get everything right the very first time, why even bother? Hell, why even try? Lets just keep hiding under a rock and hope its the person next to us that gets busted and not me.

I dont like that thinking. We need to continue to push the barrier. Continue to show people that we mean business. MJ smokers have sat around idly long enough. Now is the time to pass 19 and show those asshole in washington that the PEOPLE WANT MJ LEGALIZED.

Will DEA still raid and bust people in a post 19 world? Sure. But the better question is HOW LONG? The more policiticans that start to realize there is a huge public acceptance towards marijuana, the easier it will be for them to fight the federal government and not allow them to raid legal california growers and distributors.

But we need 19 to pass and not only pass, but with landslide numbers. That way they will know that if they dont respect the will of the people, we will vote their asses out at our first chance.

Currently there is nothing else on the ballot to legalize marijuana. If there were a better bill/proposition, I would be supporting that. Unfortunatly, that is not the case. So lets back 19 and continue to work towards more lenianat marijuana laws, until there are none at all.

EDIT:::: I somehow forgot to mention AB6-9 which will be implemented SHOULD 19 pass..... here are just a few key points:

AB6-9

I cherry picked some:

"(l) To prevent state and local agencies from supporting any
prosecution for federal or other crimes relating to marijuana that are inconsistent with those provided in this bill."

No more helping the feds bust people. Counties and cities can't get all renegade.

"(m) To exclude medical marijuana from the fees and regulations
imposed by this act."

Cleared that right up.

" 26020. (a) The department shall license commercial cultivators of marijuana. The fee for the license shall be set at an amount that will reasonably cover the costs of ensuring compliance with the regulations to be issued, but may not exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000) for an initial application, or two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) per year for each annual renewal."

That's not expensive for commercial. Quite fair actually.


"(f) Adequate labeling of packages of marijuana to describe the
purity, potency, processing, and any adulteration of the product."

This is a great thing. Consumers will have a product label. If corporations create schwag, then local mom&pops with chronic will shine here.

" 11310. For purposes of this article, "marijuana" and "cannabis" are interchangeable terms that mean all parts of the plant Cannabis sativa L., whether growing or not; the resin extracted from any part of the plant; concentrated cannabis; edible products containing the above; and every active compound, manufacture, derivative, or preparation of the plant or resin.
11310.1. (a) It is lawful and not a violation of California law
for a person 21 years of age or older to personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than 16 ounces of marijuana solely for the individual's consumption and not for resale. (b) Possession of more than 16 ounces of marijuana, except as authorized by paragraph (iii) of subdivision (a) of Section 11300 or another applicable law, is a violation of this article."

Hash is no longer considered controlled substance. The limit gets increased to a pound for everyone! Makes sure to not limit Prop 215 cardholders.


"(b) Except as authorized by law, every person underthe age of 18 18 years of age who possesses not more than 28.5 grams of marijuana, other than marijuana or concentrated cannabis, upon the grounds of, or within, any school providing instruction in
kindergarten or any of grades 1 through 12 during hours the school is open for classes or school-related programs is guilty of a
misdemeanor and shall be subject to the following dispositions:
(1) A fine of not more than two hundred fifty dollars ($250), upon a finding that a first offense has been committed. (2) A fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500), or commitment to juvenile hall, ranch, camp, forestry camp, or secure juvenile home for a period of not more than 10 days, or both, upon a finding that a second or subsequent offense has been committed."

Minimal punishment for underage use. This should make a lot of soccer moms happy.

NOW AFTER READING ALL THAT 19 AND AB6-9 WILL DO, I DONT SEE HOW ANYONE CAN BE AGAINST IT. THIS IS LEGALIZATION IN CALIFORNIA!!!! PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

 

[Zen Master]

But we need 19 to pass and not only pass, but with landslide numbers. That way they will know that if they dont respect the will of the people, we will vote their asses out at our first chance.

Politicians respecting the will of the people?





Every..... single..... year...... lately its been "we'll vote them out!" well guess what, they are still there, still making the same dumbass choices, who else are you gonna vote in that will legalize proper?

Hell its been over 3 months and Cali doesn't even have a balanced BUDGET... yeah we pay our state employees with IOU's.

I get that we aren't gonna take the entire journey to legalization in one leap, it takes steps. But people WILL catch bullshit charges that ruin their lives because "I though it was legal now", sure you might not give a shit if their life gets ruined on your path to legal, however they might care about the jargon. I know I do.

instead of trying to legalize it in one state, while also allowing for massive variances in the legitimate business end of it (being that different counties can choose to allow sales, or no sales allowed at all, and if you DO want to sell, better break out the bills and pay your way in, that sounds legit.)

why dont we put as much effort to rescheduling weed as we do legalizing it?

dont you think it would be a MUCH easier sell to congress to legalize a schedule IV drug across the board than a schedule I?

"Schedule IV.—
(A) The drug or other substance has a low potential for abuse relative to the drugs or other substances in schedule III.
(B) The drug or other substance has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
(C) Abuse of the drug or other substance may lead to limited physical dependence or psychological dependence relative to the drugs or other substances in schedule III."

Marinol, the synthetic THC pill, is schedule 3, meanwhile cannabis is schedule 1 (along with heroin and PCP) meanwhile crack is schedule 2 (along with meth and powder coke as well)....

so as far as someone who isn't a smoker, isn't involved in smoking and doesn't care or want to be involved. They have cannabis up there with 'hardcore shit' in their eyes.

we know that a fine bud is like a fine wine. There is a massive market, people want it, people will keep wanting it, so lets quit pussy footing and just repeal prohibition across the board rather than have some condition ridden 'legalization' bill that will absolutely not stop harassment, will still endanger young peoples futures, and will STILL cause economic strain through leo enforcement of the new rules.

still no comment on the cross sworn DEA cops wanting to fuck with a punk kid who thinks he's hot shit after 19 passes.

 

[heyheyhey]

NOW AFTER READING ALL THAT 19 AND AB6-9 WILL DO, I DONT SEE HOW ANYONE CAN BE AGAINST IT. THIS IS LEGALIZATION IN CALIFORNIA!!!! PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

how can you sit there and guarantee the government will help us out with ab6-9? Since when has the government ever made things better for us? I think its very naive to assume AB6-9 will pass. If anything, a bill will pass to put further regulation and restrictions on us, not help us.

 

[rives]

still no comment on the cross sworn DEA cops wanting to fuck with a punk kid who thinks he's hot shit after 19 passes.

Actually, there was. Post #97. In fact you answered it in #99.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

see this makes me believe that none of you actually want legalization. if ab6-9 cant change your mind NOTHING will. so basically its "hey i got a good thing going here, so fuck any sort of change". good to know what kind of people you are..... cops will throw any smoker under the prohibition train. and i guess growers and dealers will to. fuck everyone else as long as i gets mine.

 

[Bigrick31]

AB6-9

I cherry picked some:

"(l) To prevent state and local agencies from supporting any
prosecution for federal or other crimes relating to marijuana that are inconsistent with those provided in this bill."

No more helping the feds bust people. Counties and cities can't get all renegade.

"(m) To exclude medical marijuana from the fees and regulations
imposed by this act."

Cleared that right up.

" 26020. (a) The department shall license commercial cultivators of marijuana. The fee for the license shall be set at an amount that will reasonably cover the costs of ensuring compliance with the regulations to be issued, but may not exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000) for an initial application, or two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) per year for each annual renewal."

That's not expensive for commercial. Quite fair actually.


"(f) Adequate labeling of packages of marijuana to describe the
purity, potency, processing, and any adulteration of the product."

This is a great thing. Consumers will have a product label. If corporations create schwag, then local mom&pops with chronic will shine here.

" 11310. For purposes of this article, "marijuana" and "cannabis" are interchangeable terms that mean all parts of the plant Cannabis sativa L., whether growing or not; the resin extracted from any part of the plant; concentrated cannabis; edible products containing the above; and every active compound, manufacture, derivative, or preparation of the plant or resin.
11310.1. (a) It is lawful and not a violation of California law
for a person 21 years of age or older to personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than 16 ounces of marijuana solely for the individual's consumption and not for resale. (b) Possession of more than 16 ounces of marijuana, except as authorized by paragraph (iii) of subdivision (a) of Section 11300 or another applicable law, is a violation of this article."

The limit gets increased to a pound for everyone! Makes sure to not limit Prop 215 cardholders.

"(b) Except as authorized by law, every person underthe age of 18 18 years of age who possesses not more than 28.5 grams of marijuana, other than marijuana or concentrated cannabis, upon the grounds of, or within, any school providing instruction in
kindergarten or any of grades 1 through 12 during hours the school is open for classes or school-related programs is guilty of a
misdemeanor and shall be subject to the following dispositions:
(1) A fine of not more than two hundred fifty dollars ($250), upon a finding that a first offense has been committed. (2) A fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500), or commitment to juvenile hall, ranch, camp, forestry camp, or secure juvenile home for a period of not more than 10 days, or both, upon a finding that a second or subsequent offense has been committed."

Minimal punishment for underage use. This should make a lot of soccer moms happy.

Ok so ABX6-9 sounds good and BTW anyone trying to look it up its not ab 69 thats a green energy bill this bill is abx6-9 took me a while to look it up because of the difference here is the bill

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/abx6_9_bill_20100921_introduced.html

But its not on the ballot and not currently in action or whats the deal? If prop 19 passes is abx6-9 somehow guaranteed to pass from my understanding Tom Ammiano is trying to get this legislation passed to clear up gray areas in prop 19 but it isnt a sure thing and the people dont get to vote on it if someone could clear this up for me I would appreciate it.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

But its not on the ballot and not currently in action or whats the deal? If prop 19 passes is abx6-9 somehow guaranteed to pass from my understanding Tom Ammiano is trying to get this legislation passed to clear up gray areas in prop 19 but it isnt a sure thing and the people dont get to vote on it if someone could clear this up for me I would appreciate it.

Proposition 19 has to pass so that abx6-9 can be introduced.

 

[rives]

Proposition 19 has to pass so that abx6-9 can be introduced.

Actually, it is being fast tracked and may be voted on prior to the November election for 19. It is an Assembly bill, so it only gets voted on by the legislature, and it only goes into effect if 19 passes (I believe that is the last line in the bill).

 

[Bigrick31]

Proposition 19 has to pass so that abx6-9 can be introduced.

Do we have some kind of guarantee that if prop 19 passes abx6-9 will also pass? Im genuinely curious here not trying to be sarcastic.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Do we have some kind of guarantee that if prop 19 passes abx6-9 will also pass? Im genuinely curious here not trying to be sarcastic.

Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside. Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right? The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times

 

[StellarP]

Proposition 19 = voter initiative, once passed it becomes a Stateconstitutional amendment.

ABx-6-9 = Amendment bill x-6-9, this is a legislature proposed amendment to Proposition 19. Once 19 passes the legislature will vote on this.

Proposition 215 = Well, I don't see any amendments to this Proposition, if you currently hold a medical card or will be getting one, Proposition 19 DOES NOT pertain to you. Status Quo

Cheers
StellarP

 

[Zen Master]

Actually, there was. Post #97. In fact you answered it in #99.

?

I know that if a cop is cross sworn, they can enforce federal laws. illegal federally=you can get busted by a local leo who is cross sworn.

not sure if you were agreeing with me or what....

so yay legal, they just have to jump through another little hoop to bust you, just like they have been for years.


I'm all for legalization, I'd love to be able to walk down the street with an ounce in my pocket burnin J's. But this ain't legalization!

as I'm reading your excerpts:

use it in public, you can get busted.
grow more than 25 sq ft, you can get busted.
crop more than pound, you can get busted.
smoke with someone under 21, you can get busted.
sell in a city that doesn't allow sales, you can get busted.
sell more than one ounce at one time, you can get busted.
sell to anyone 18-20, you can get busted.
don't pay your licensing fees because you're mom-n-pop and don't have 5 grand to throw at it, you can get busted.


and this is "legal"?

you're like dogs salivating for a treat, willing to do and give anything for it. Sure its better than the non existent other options, but is it necessarily a good option because of that?

 

[rives]

Sure its better than the non existent other options, but is it necessarily a good option because of that?

Yes, it sure as hell is. Baby steps.

 

[Zen Master]

okay well I'm "legal" and have a record now because of it.

so given the fact that I followed the law, I figured I'm alright. Bzzzzpppppp wrong. I've got thousands in expenses, court dates and a whole host of other bullshit that I wouldn't have if there wasn't a gaping grey area like there is now.

thats my only gripe, is that although this removes SOME crimes, it in fact CREATES more as well.

now you get tax evasion, not "possession for sale".

 

[krunchbubble]

Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside. Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right? The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times

lol, black sheep?

 

[rives]

I am now 55. The last time this came to vote, I was 6 months too young to vote. The inevitable pendulum of voter moral stance is swinging back towards being far more conservative (witness the popularity of the tea party). Seize what you can and work with it.

 

[Bigrick31]

Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside. Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right? The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times

Didnt the supreme court say it was unlawful for CA to set limits on the number of plants in prop 215 because it was a voter passed bill and the bill did not include plant limits therefore the amendment CA made to the bill was unconstitutional?

Now people are "hoping" that prop 19 and abx6-9 pass together yet threres no guarantee that abx6-9 will pass and even if it does whats to stop someone from challenging it say the Feds it worked in our favor with plant limits and prop 215 and now the same laws may be our worst enemy because the opposition can use them against us. The feds sued Arizona and won whats to stop them from suing CA and do away with abx6-9? It sure seems like people are putting all their eggs into one basket why would you when its been proven time and time again that the government is not our friends and they will screw us over given the opportunity. Combine prop 19 with abx6-9 and you will get my vote but separated it seems as if a lot has to go right for things to turn out the way we hope they will and in my experience hope and luck dont accomplish anything.

 

[kmk420kali]

crop more than pound, you can get busted.

Huh?? You can keep anything you grow...doesn't matter if it is 100 pounds--