shishkaboy
>>>>Beanie Man<<<<
What were the other phenos like? Any speculations on what that short fat leafer could have been? Or the other phenos?
IMO, s1'ing an unknown is on of the best ways to guess at the lineage.
-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
91'chemdog
- Thread starter Good Ole Dog
- Start date
What were the other phenos like? Any speculations on what that short fat leafer could have been? Or the other phenos?
IMO, s1'ing an unknown is on of the best ways to guess at the lineage.
After the "history of og kush" adam dunn shows, on another site there is a huge thread "the history of og kush" and Todd McCormick popped in and gave a lot of information on OG Kush, saying that Dave Richards story on Adam Dunn Show of being affiliated with the busted underground bunker grower Frank Gegax... and years later going to smoke out Woody and Jack Nicholson at Todd's "MJ Mansion", getting tailed by police, etc... was a complete tall tale and fabrication. David was trying to say on the show that he thought maybe OG Kush / chemdog originated in the Frank Gegax bunkers near where he lived. And he was saying that this bunker bud might be the same as the dog bud..... at the end of the day, nobody knows 100% for sure what is in OG, when it was bred, or who bred it.
-----------------
-=The below paste is From Todd McCormick @HEMPxxx =-
-----------------
Dave Richards is full of BS stories and was a Federal informant in the 1997 case against me. Dave did months in prison because of his cooperation and I did 5 years in prison for my lack of cooperation.
For the record - I absolutely despise the allegations Dave is making about me to bolster his own story. I NEVER smuggled seeds through LAX when I arrived back in California in December of 1996. I did however, officially declare my medical Cannabis with my international prescription from my Dutch physician, at customs and I was thoroughly searched. After the DEA would not intervene and the LAPD would not arrest me, customs finally released me, but confiscated my medical Cannabis. Eric Shevin represented me as my attorney in my case against customs, in my attempt to get my medical Cannabis returned. In the 90's I declared my medical Cannabis at customs twice in order to make a political point that Cannabis is medicine.
I hope everybody listening to this realizes that being a snitch is absolutely horrible, what's worse is making up completely fabricated scenarios to facilitate the stories. People should stop snitching - after listening to this broadcast today, I can only imagine the amount of fertilizer Dave spread around to the feds to get himself out of going to prison for his own grows.
Furthermore, in regards to OG KUSH - I was given a cutting of the plant in 1997 and Dave Richards did NOT HAVE ANYTHING to do with it. There was a small group of growers in Los Angeles who were growing OG and I was fortunate enough to be given a plant and brought into their circle. The story back then was that it came from a brother who brought it in from Florida. Dave absolutely had nothing to do with me getting the cutting of OG and Dave was pissed off back in 1997, that I would not give him a cutting of it, only because I was loyal to my friends who were kind enough to give me a cutting and had specifically asked me not to give cuttings out to anybody. Back then, people growing OG did not want to see guys like Dave commercialize strains that had taken a lot of work (by people other than Dave) and grown out to be highly regarded as connoisseur quality Cannabis.
After I was released from prison in 2004, I was again given OG Kush and specifically asked if this time I could share it. Coincidentally, the brother who brought OG from Florida died in a skiing accident and his friends thought it would be most appropriate if I used the plant to get back on my feet. With their good graces, I distributed OG Kush clones throughout Los Angeles that were authentic cuttings of the original plant that was made famous in Los Angeles and given to me multiple times from 1997 on. I can attest that there were actual copies of OG available in various medical clubs in 2004, 2005 and 2006 through "Select Strains". (I was busted again on June 9th, 2006 by LAPD and served 4 days in LA JAIL, 45 days on house arrest, 3 years probation - as it is not easy being green).
I personally believe that we should share the genetics, I believe that really good cannabis can only make the world a better, more peaceful place to live in. 18 years later, I still have OG Kush and probably will forever.
Todd McCormick: HEMP.xxx ~ THC EXPO ~ The Emperor Wears No Clothes 12th Edition ~ PROTESTIVAL - A 20 Year Retrospective of Seattle Hemp Fest ~ How To Grow Medical Marijuana ~ The Union: The Business Behind Geting High & The Culture High
---------------
from MrBelvedere: the Richards story goes completely haywire right after he goes from his tale of driving to the mansion to smoke out Woody and Jack, and a minute later is saying he has thousands of priceless seeds but his wife will not let him germinate them LOL.
Thanks for your activism in ending prohibition, there's very few people who truly take it to heart.
---------------
Update - I communicated with the daughter of Frank Gegax and she told me that DAVE HAS NEVER MET her father Frank, that her sister went to school with Dave Richards and that she thinks that Dave did go loot the grow site AFTER the bust, but what he may have found/stolen/looted from the DEA raided grow site is unknown. I have to go back and actually listen to his whole story - I just couldn't bother to listen to him go on, but now that I know the premise of his story is totally fabricated I want to give it a listen.
Thank you for the kind words - we are all making the world better by just resisting the oppression.
Hugs n Hash - Todd
---------------
To me, there is only one OG KUSH; when I first got it in Los Angeles in 1997 the O.G. stood for Original Gangster - and I think that name came from the Ice-T reference in hip-hop; O.G. Original Gangster, which is the fourth album by Ice-T. Released in 1991. O.G. became famous in Los Angeles and mostly within the hip-hop community, as there was Kush - like Hindu Kush sold in Sensi catalogs and commonly grown in Humboldt and Mendocino County, and then there was O.G. Kush - which was always awesome indoor bud, grown by a small group of growers that knew what they were doing and put out a product that became world-famous. All the BS about "organically grown" is hippy fantasy. O.G. was mostly grown in LA, mostly hydroponically and flowered late into its cycle, to the point which there were practically no stigmas and the resin was thick; O.G. was always green and sticky and the bracts fat.
And in regards to Nevil (hash and hugs dear sir) - I can attest that O.G. Kush is not reminiscent of Jack Herer. I was literally standing next to Jack Herer in 1994 when Ben Dronkers christened NL5xHzC X SK1xHzC - Jack Herer at the Cannabis Castle in Holland. That year Jack (the bud) was incredibly spicy and had the aroma of what I would later call "Nevil's Haze" - only because I have had the great fortune of smoking with Nevil in 96'. NL5 x Haze was for a long time my favorite strain and even won the 1996 HT Cannabis Cup in the Hydro category as NL5xHaze x Mist - even though it was grown in soil by a gentleman named Tom, and not a cross with Kali Mist. (And years later I want to say thank you to Nevil for that wonderful evening - if you remember, I found a seed in the bud you gave me to smoke, and when I offered it back to you, you laughed and told me I could keep it. I immediately proclaimed that I hoped it was a female and you said no, that I should hope it was a male, so that then I could mix it will all my favorite females. I'll never forget that perspective, and I thank you for it. That single seeed ended up being a male - unfortunately I lost it in the July 97 raid.)
O.G. Kush is greasy, whereas the Haze is spicy. I have a phenotype that is the best example of Nevil's Haze that I have smoked in North America and the O.G. is practically the polar opposite. After I got out of prison, I met a guy who lit a joint of what he called Super Silver Haze and it smelled like a bud that was handed to me by Nevil that evening in the 90's. I asked him where he got it and he told me that one of his friends had traveled to the Netherlands in 1997 or 1998, and met a guy named Nevil, played chess and smoked together. He bought seeds from Nevil and upon arriving home, picked the female that most reminded him of the Cannabis he smoked with Nevil. He quickly told me that he did not know if the story was true, but I felt it was because the scent of the Haze is unmistakable. He was nice enough to give me a cutting and years later I had both the Haze and O.G. tested by Steep Hill (circa 2009) and the O.G. came back at 20.6% and the Haze at 23.7% THC.
I still call the cutting I have "Nevil's Haze" and not "Super Silver Haze" because I think the sample of SSH that is floating around the San Francisco Bay should (I think) be called "Super Silver Skunk" because it flowers fast and is thick, and it does not have that unique Haze spicy scent. I will post photos of both my Haze and O.G. for the sake of comparison. The Haze I have is smallish buds, flowers in 70 to 77 days and is my morning favorite.
I will also attach some photos of O.G. Kush dried buds that I photographed while smoking with DJ Pooh - Pooh is the music producer for Ice Cube and co-creator of the movie FRIDAY. O.G Kush was practically all he smoked and is a very authentic photo of O.G. (Pooh was also nice enough to bail me out of jail in June 2006, after I got busted yet again, and also was DJ at my first party at the Playboy mansion to benefit the Marijuana Policy Project in 2007.)
Which brings me around to commenting on Dave Richards testimony on Adams show now that I have listened to it all. So much of what he says is to me is absolute fabrication. For instance, Woody Harrelson, who bailed me out of the feds to the tune of $500,000., was in Australia the evening I was raided and Dave is completely lying when he says that he had plans to have dinner at my house with Woody and of all people, Jack Nicholson. I also think that this is a great example of David's "fireside story", as it's one grain of truth mixed with confusion created by Dave's fantasy. Dave has only met Jack Nicholson in his imagination, which is the same place he met Frank. Furthermore, as for sentencing, I had no priors and I can prove it with my pretrial service investigation report. I did 5 years because I would not cooperate, it is that simple. I am currently being prosecuted and Tony Serra is my attorney, specifically because I would not cooperate yet again, after being raided in conjunction with Oaksterdam University and my old friend Richard Lee in 2012. As one week after the raid, I got a call from a very friendly police officer asking me if I would come down and cooperate, and I said no: 10 months later I received paperwork telling me to come on down to state court to go around again. At this point in my life I am numb to the system and have no fucks to give, I am proud that I have stayed true to my friends and Dave is right about one thing, everything did end up really comfortable for me, mainly because I did not stop trying to pick myself up, dust myself off and be grateful that I was still breathing. Cancer did not get me down, and I'll be damned if this stupid plant prohibition is going to do it.
------------------
@SpiderK - for a moment I thought you were Nevil Schoenmakers - but most obviously you are not. Nevil knows me, and you don't even know when "Jack Herer" was released. Why are you writing in first person and signing it Nevil - when you are obviously not Nevil Schoenmakers?
And yes, I was in and out of jail and I did not lose the O.G. because the guys who were growing it kept giving back to me. And after reading your flippant comments about Woody living out of the country during my bust, all I can think is that you are freaking stupid or drinking out of the same fantasy–fountain as Dave Richards - as Woody still to this day has had the same house in Beverly Hills that he purchased when he was doing Cheers - and surprise, other houses to. If your level of intelligence in regards to regurgitating other people's expertise is reflected in your lack of knowledge of what you speak in regards to Woody – I highly doubt anything you are blabbing about in regards to Cannabis. The memorable evening I wrote about having with Nevil happened sometime in 1996 and up to that point I had never heard of O.G. Kush, our conversation revolved around HAZE. I only first encountered O.G. Kush in Los Angeles in February 1997 and shortly thereafter was given a cutting for the first time.
As for trying to build up my credibility – I really couldn't give two fucks to be know for my gardening abilities, but I do care about people lying about my life, which is what brought me here. I have been growing Cannabis since 1984 and going in and out of jail for it and only it, since I started hanging out with Jack Herer and working on his book. After he passed away in 2010, I released the 12th edition of the Emperor - go read my memorial to him on page 16 if you're having trouble believing what I write here. And yes, I certainly was standing next to Jack in November 1994 when Sensi first opened the Cannabis Castle to the public and presented Jack with his namesake bud. Ask Ben or Alan Dronkers if your memory doesn't serve you, or if because you actually weren't there.
I attended the 1994 Cannabis Cup with Jack Herer after staying at Steve Hager's New York apartment and flying into Amsterdam with most of the HT crew, I also attended the 1995 Cannabis Cup and worked for HT/Steve Hager showing 60 minutes around Amsterdam, and then lived in Amsterdam the entire year of 1996 while working at Positronics, while also working with Simon at Serious Seeds, and even that year as editor-in-chief at High Life magazine, working on publishing an English edition of their Dutch magazine titled Hemp Life (which was released in November 1996 throughout Europe).
As for Woody bailing me out of federal prison – it is public knowledge:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/BRIEFLY : BEL-AIR POT SUSPECT BAILED OUT BY ACTOR.-a083876073
As for hanging out with rappers, well friends come in all shapes, sizes and colors – at least mine do, living in LA I have met smokers from all walks of life and I really do not care if a person is or is not famous, just if they are kind. Before I went to prison, Woody and I also did college tours and I even spoke at Woodstock 99' > www.spitfiretour.org
For a moment in my life – Dave Richards was a friend of mine, I will attach a photo of he and I which appeared in an Amsterdam newspaper in September 1996, we were both smoking at the HASH-BASH and having a great time. But that was before Dave showed his true colors and I found out he was a liar, later I would find out he was also a government informant with the spine of a jellyfish, and there is not a much better example of that than listening to him give false testimony as to my activities and the people that were at my house on freaking YouTube.
After I got out of prison in 2004, I got back into activism: in 2005 I helped make THE UNION: The Business Behind Getting High, co-produced three parties the Playboy mansion for the Marijuana Policy Project in 2007, 2008 & 2009, and then moved to the Los Angeles Convention Center for my June 2009 THC Expo. In 2010, I worked on and released the 12th edition of Jack's book, in 2011, I worked with Vivian McPeak and we created and released PROTESTIVAL: A 20 Retrospective of Seattle Hempfest, in 2012 I got raided yet again and then went onto received the Cannabis Cultural Award alongside Sir Richard Branson and Dr. Lester Grinspoon from Ben Dronkers, who just happens to be the guy who I was standing in front of when he named Jack Herer the bud. And just last October, we released THE CULTURE HIGH - if you haven't seen it, please do, it has some or my "rapper friends".
@Frostynugman back in 2008/2009 Steep Hill "lab reports" were not much more than a single sheet of paper expressing the percentages of cannabinoids and I did not keep them.
I personally have no doubt that there are lots of copies of true O.G. Kush floating around under various names, because as I said in one of my earlier posts, I was selling cuttings of the famous plant in 2004, 2005 and 2006 all over Los Angeles.
--------------------
@SpiderK - holy fertilizer – there is no crew! Who are you and what is your real name? Because there is nothing I have less respect for some internet troll hiding behind a pseudonym. If you not going to give your true identity than just shut up. There is few things worse than a coward hiding behind a fake name. And with the comment about Woody was living in Costa Rica - proves you really are just a newspaper reader.
I'm not hiding anything – I am just clarifying some bullshit some dumbass that I met in Holland is talking about in a public forum, and trying to bring some light onto a conversation that I happen to know a lot about. I don't know how many people in this form have been growing OG since 1997, but – I have, that is, when I'm not in prison.
I have been a loner grower since I started growling in my closet and I have no plans on changing. I met Dave Richards at the Greenhouse Cafe and had nothing to do with much of the stupidity he is talking about. Dave is living vicariously through other people's lives, he somehow fabricated Frank's bust into his imagination as being part of it because he simply looted a raided grow site. Frank's daughter contacted me to bring this information to light, I never bothered to contact her first because I did not know Frank. Dave is also blatantly fabricating his stories involving me, which is really why I came on this forum, to clarify the bullshit he was spreading.
Dave Richards met Peter McWilliams because Peter gave me a rather sizable book advance to produce not just my book titled; "How To Grow Medical Marijuana" which was released in 1998, but he also wanted me to put together grow websites and create grow videos.
Woody bailed me out of jail on his own regard, and I am thankful he did it because there's no way I would've been able to come up with $500,000 in cash. And I am not a commercial grower, if anything I am a producer, as I produce books, movies and events. In 97' Peter was a multimillionaire and Dave was quick to become a bottom feeder trying to impress Peter and get his hands on some money, I quickly regretted ever letting David meet Peter. However, what I was doing at my house was my own project and had nothing to do with other people's commercial interests. After I got busted in 1997, there is evidence that David and Peter and others were pursuing commercial interests, but I had nothing to do with it. In 1998 Jack Herer and I were working together on the rerelease of the Emperor.
I don't give two shits about breeding - in my opinion, most people are just mixing together the same old strains and calling it their own. My goal upon returning from Amsterdam was to simply identify the various strains available to me and categorize them by the amount of time they took to flower, and the cannabinoid levels they produced. I was hoping to start doing cannabinoid analysis of my plants back in 1997, so that I could start publishing the information in hopes that we could all have a better understanding of what was available in the Cannabis world.
After having cancer 10 times – my life goal is not to make a lot of money, my goal is to spread the truth about cannabis, as I feel that I owe the plant a great deal, as I believe it was instrumental in me overcoming my childhood disease.
----------------------
@oahno hopefully you never have to find this all on your own, so I will tell you. When you're arrested, you can do one of two things: pay 10% to a bondsman, money which you will never see returned. The second thing you can do, is put the full bond up in either cash or property, and if you do that, you will get back all of your money upon completion of the court proceedings. Woody put up the entire amount in 1997 and got it all returned when I went to prison in 2000, the government was even nice enough to pay 5% interest annually.
@FiveAM - I got carried away and I could afford the equipment. And I'm not saying that I did not have workers at my house helping me out to water and repot and keep the house clean, as when I was living in Bel Air money was not an issue, nor was it my intention to sell the Cannabis I was growing for profit. I actually believed that I could make more money off of books, videos, and website information that I could selling grams of weed; my publisher Peter McWilliams was a five-time, New York Times best-selling author and my dreams had nothing to do with selling kilos of Cannabis.
---------------------
MODERATOR: @HEMPxxx Is a legend in the cannabis community. If you want to troll him you will be banned. Show some respect or I'll show you the fucking door.
----------------------
Hey everybody – let me just start off by saying that I most certainly did not come into this forum to start fertilizer with anybody - Mr. Spiderman included. I feel like I have been very fortunate witness too much of this movement and I try to do my part to do what I can to stop the disinformation and spread the truth wherever I can.
A crazy lesson of the whole Bel Air bust was that I experienced a lot of people being very kind to me - I mean, you would never want to test your friends by putting yourself into a horrible situation but to find yourself in a horrible situation and realized there were people like Woody, who stood up and helped me out when I least expected it really was a beautiful experience. I truly believe that nature favors the brave and support came from places I would have never expected, such as, a little old lady from Boise Idaho who was 71 years old, read about our story on ifeminist.com and wanted to write to me telling me that she supported our cause, she did not know me she was just being kind and going through the whole experience was profound. It was made clear to me early on in the prosecution that had I cooperated I could have mitigated the charges against me but at the time I made the decision that I would rather walk away from everything I had ever owned, than to sell my soul cooperating with what I saw as the other side of right.
At my sentencing I delivered a 40 minute speech denouncing government oppression and never apologized for growing flowers I believe that what we are doing is right and that prohibiting nature is wrong. And the main reason I came into this forum is because I wanted to stand on the side of truth, not because I wanted adulation, I learned a long time ago that I really do not like attention, but I do appreciate all of your kind words and sentiment, and I feel the same way about people like Jack Herer, Ben Dronkers, Nevil and many others who have shared their wisdom for the betterment of us all.
I wish I had the answers to all things O.G., truth be told, she was not that famous when I first got her and she was not even my favorite. I caught major shit for calling O.G. high-end commercial bud (at 9 weeks) as comparing it to long flowering HAZE being truly connoisseur quality cannabis. I find it interesting that there is so much interest in this cutting and the only reason I chimed in, is because there was incorrect information being presented including me.
Back in Bel Air I had over 50 strains growing simultaneously, I moved into the house in February and was using the absolutely massive outdoor area to start seeds, I was buying my soil by the pallet and having a blast outdoors while I built my 70 light indoor grow. It was honestly a little boy's dream come true, out of the closet and into a freaking mansion - words cannot describe how much fun I was having simply gardening and staying home. I made friends by happenstance and the herb brings us together. I honestly thought that the law changing made a difference, I mean, after alcohol prohibition ended, did not Jack Daniels go from being a bootlegger to a businessman?
What the press did not report was that I was in negotiations with Larry Flynt and Woody to start a magazine about Cannabis, turns out that Larry Flynt once distributed high times through the 70's and his comment to me was that marijuana was a lot more popular in the late 90s than it was in the late 70s, unfortunately I got busted in the middle of negotiations, but both guys did their best to defend me, Woody bailed me out and Larry sent his lawyers, I did not ask for it and that is probably why they helped me out.
In 1997 I never distributed OG Kush to anybody - and I sure as hell never sold Jason King and eight of Hash Plant for $100.! It may be crazy to comprehend but, I never sold weed to anybody out of the mansion in Bel Air - I did not have to, I had money from my book advance and was too busy spending it, to worry about getting cash for a few grams of dried up flowers, which were in silly abundance in my life at this time. I literally had a dry bar with 50 jars that each comfortably held 100g of buds - for guests.
I grew out many of the strains Dave had such as heavy-duty fruity, his Mendocino, and Hash Plant, I absolutely loved a plant called Babylon - it flowered in under eight weeks but smelled and tasted like a Kali Mist/HAZE, it never developed more than five leaflets and the leaves looked like they were designed by Black & Decker - rigid sharp serrated leaves that turned up, it did not look like an Afghan and sure the flock does not look like OG, in fact nothing in Dave's little bag of tricks even remotely resembled any of the piny/greasy varieties such as; New York City Diesel, Sour Diesel, O.G., or Chem Dawg (in the Dead circle where I first got Chem Dawg - that is how we spelled it, in connection to the band, which is also how I think OG became the tag line to Kush in LA, it was slang that the hip-hop kids used just like "dawg" was slang that the Dead Heads used).
I do not claim to be the best grower - I joke that my teacher, Robert Clarke, has had the opportunity to forget more about Cannabis than I have had the opportunity to learn. (Shameless plug - please pick up a copy of Cannabis: Evolution and Ethnobotany - in it you will see 2 of my photos!) The photos I have posted I have both grown and photographed, so I can speak to their authenticity.
I grew everything Dave had in Amsterdam at Positronics in 1996 after Dave split with Greenhouse - Scott - aka Shanibaba dropped off Dave's plants to me at Posi, if you see him ask him, he'll tell ya. Dave's strains were ok, nothing spectacular, no HAZE, mostly what I would call commercial, 8 to 9 weeks and mostly Afghan crossed varieties. All of his BS about government tested strains is absolute Santa Claus coming down the chimney material. I cannot imagine for a moment that Frank could have walked away from 12 years in prison by simply giving up his garden - which I would like to point out, the DEA took anyway and I am sure samples of his Cannabis ended up at the University of Mississippi for analysis, as does a lot of the cannabis seized.
If anybody wants to private message me they are more than welcome to and I will do my best to answer questions, but I have pretty much stated what I know about the lineage of OG - do not want to mention the guys name who gave it to me out of respect for other people's privacy, so please do not ask.
Please enjoy a pirated copy of our latest film: http://vidzi.tv/l9qiox4f9e5f.html#.VEaJLGCj-_k.twitter
-------------------------
@dogznova unfortunately, no – but I have smoked some pretty amazing blueberry that came out of Oregon – or so I thought in the 90s.
And just as a notation because I know you are all so keen on the details – the cover of my book is actually a Train Wreck cross from Northern California and not OG.
@MrBelvedere - thank you for the breakdown!
@sanvanalona - yes – I smoke a lot actually, I really enjoyed the taste and scent of fresh or I should say, perfectly cured Cannabis every morning. I find it to be a nice way to wake up in comparison to going straight to dabs - which often happens. Although, I had a realization with much of the "dabs" that are generally available, are narcotic because they are made with varieties which are quick flowering: which was similar to the realization I had when I got to Amsterdam in 94, and realized HAZE would wake me up like a morning coffee, as up to the point I only had access to seeds from bags of (supposedly) greenhouse grown buds from Vermont in the early 80s - I spent the 80s growing something that resembles the stink of a skunk.
And of course I know Renée - she was like the opposite of Dave Richards, she wouldn't cooperate and faced prison as opposed to being part of the prosecution against me and Peter. I cannot speak about any of the strains in Vancouver during the years that she was up there, which is 98 on - I was living in California and fighting the prosecution, I self surrendered to prison January 3, 2000, and was only in touch with my friends mostly through mail, although obviously some did visit.
I would also like to point out that the Skunk is a North American animal and not native to the Netherlands - which is probably why the variety of Cannabis that they call "Skunk", smells sweet and so unlike the varieties that we call skunk in North America, which are more putrid and skunk-like. If you're reading this and you have lived in North America, then the chances are you know what it smells like to smell a skunk, it is very difficult to describe, but it is also very reminiscent to certain North American strains of Cannabis.
@soopy - I have grown Chem 91 and it is close to OG and I have always thought the were related somewhere along the line: and although Chem has a better yield, OG is brighter in scent and when smoking, and also has better resin development. I get bored of toking Chem and would rather have OG. Attached is a photo of Chem that I took and grew from a cutting going around California.
@MrBelvedere I have grown the Hindu Kush from Sensi Seeds as we had a nice sample at Positronics, although I only watched it flower through 2 or 3 cycles. I was fortunate enough to grow a lot of the Dutch varieties when I was there in 96, as I was working at Posi that entire year with Ol' Ed Holloway (who turned 80 in 1996 - he was credited with teaching Wernard how to grow seedless back in the early 70s and came back as a guest in 96). And I would like to point out that the Hindu Kush in the Dutch gene pool shure does not smell like what we call OG Kush in California - as Hindu Kush sold in Europe often smells sweet - and not piney like the Hindu Kush samples that I have grown/seen in Mendocino in 94' - which I would like to also point out, also does not smell like what we call OG Kush.
My friend was just over visiting and I asked him to describe OG Kush, he also lived in LA in the 90's, and has smoked a lot of OG, he called the taste of OG Kush "Umami". I had to look it up, but I think he hit it dead on:
From Wikipedia: Umami/uːˈmɑːmi/, a savory taste, is one of the five basic tastes (together with sweet, sour, bitter and salty).
So in my opinion:
Hindu Kush - from Amsterdam is sweet almost early Skunk #1-ish
Hindu Kush - from Mendocino, California is more Piney
OG. Kush is Umami - or like a combination of all tastes, it is thick and flavorful.
I have also moved away from describing varieties with the old taxonomy of Sativa & Indica - as Rob Clarke and Mark Merlin lay out the best argument I have read in Cannabis: Evolution and Ethnobotany, and that is that nobody smokes SATIVA - it is simply a Latin suffix used to describe useful plants, there is a Lettuce Sativa L. and nobody smokes that either. The Latin suffix was attached to plants that they were finding most useful or using industrially, ya know - HEMP, so Sativa was describing industrial-use varieties being identified by farmers in Europe.
Whereas INDICA - simply means; of or like India, in fact, many items that originate from India are called "Indica". And because India was the - dare I say it - OG Cannabis capital the world - all of the drug varieties were Indica, in comparison to all of the industrial varieties being tagged with the suffix SATIVA.
Now what are we really trying to describe with the two words is more describable by how North or South the plant originated, such as a very Northern Afghan variety that flowers fast, we call INDICA, and rightly so, because India was once that entire area of the Hindu Kush Mountains and into what is now Pakistan. But if we travel South towards Goa and encountered varieties at the southernmost tip of India, they would have narrow leaves and flower for (one could say countless) weeks because they were equatorial - or simply put, acclimated closer to the equator. But it would all be INDICA, from the southernmost tip of India where Cannabis flowers in as long as 16 weeks (or forever if you are watching it) to the Hindu Kush Mountains where we find some of the shortest flowing varieties of Cannabis in the world. So all drug varieties are basically INDICA.
I would also make the argument that during the 50s and 60s, and much of the 70s, most of America was smoking equatorial varieties of Cannabis: Acapulco Gold, Thai Stick - Vietnam, Mexican, Hawaiian, Jamaican, - all high-energy Ganja, and then in the late 70s and 80s, when breeders started mixing Afghan into pretty much everything they could get their hands on, the Cannabis smoking experience became very (dear I say) polluted with Afghan genetics that produced narcotic like effects and "couch lock" became a term to describe how you felt when you smoked really strong herb. Why? Because growers were looking for the fastest, fattest flowers they could grow. Quick, high yield indoor Cannabis was definitely a product of prohibition, and now that we are seeing quasi-legalization, I would just like to make the argument that people should start looking at setting up perpetual flowering systems and growing flowers that take longer than 8 to 10 weeks to flower. There is a whole new world to be found in Cannabis in some of these later flowering varieties, but the market has to be open-minded and start judging Cannabis not on what it looks like, but instead on how it feels.
I also think that we should start judging cannabis more upon its cannabinoid and terpene ratios and less upon it's flowering time and yield. As some of my favorite varieties are equatorial and will never deliver the same yield of more commercial cannabis, but I really don't care either. I would rather have the high-energy, complexity of an equatorial variety than almost any Northern, quick flowering variety.
@MrBelvedere Unfortunately I have never had my Cannabis returned after a raid and sadly I have lost genetics that are irreplaceable. I will attach a before and after photo of my old mother room, it just sucks and that is why I really recommend people share their genetics with their friends so that if something bad happens to your garden, you can go back around to your friends and gather up your favorite genetics and dust yourself off and start all over.
I hope I got everybody's questions – thank you everybody for the kindness and happy gardening!
-------------------------
Hey everybody – thanks for the love - I would prefer not to say anything bad about anybody and I did not come in here to talk negatively about anybody either. I actually think happiness is a choice and I do my best to live a positive lifestyle, regardless of the prosecutions I've been dealing with, or the reoccurring cancer I faced as a child or when dealing with some of the clowns we all encounter in life. My motivation in posting was simply to correct inaccurate information regarding myself in this forum: Dave saying that I was an international seed smuggler for him and that I was selling $100.- eights to Jason King, AND that he was coming to my house to have dinner with Woody and Jack Nicholson - and I could go on...was just too much for me to let go.
@Hrpuffnstuff - I pride myself on being able to be honest my entire life and I have lived my life in a way that I have never had to rely on lies to get by, and for that I thank the plant, and I do what I do politically in order to educate the world about Cannabis, because of the health and independence it has given me. I have never lied, cheated or stolen my entire life - because I didn't fucking have to, and I say that boldly, not hiding behind some pseudonym as you are. It's easy to talk shit when you're hiding behind a screen, but I'm not here hiding who I am, but you are basically lying by hiding your identity from start of your typing.
So you want to bring up Brian freaking Roberts - glad to, after he ripped me off trying to do the THC EXPO without me, and failing miserably - I got to talking to his childhood friend and first business partner Ramsey, who he founded that THC sticker company with, and found out that Brian had ripped off Ramsey before he ripped off me. And then in 2011 when I was walking into the HT SF Cannabis Cup, I walked into Aaron - of DNA Seeds - and he pulled me aside to tell me that Brian had just ripped off DNA for over $150 grand! Ask either Aaron or Don - they will let you know what they think of ol' Brian. So turns out, I was just second in line to a chronic con-man and thief. Last time Jorge Cervantes was at my house visiting me - you can see even more of my photographs in his next book - Jorge told me that he heard Brian was a heroin addict living in Northern California, no doubt hiding out from some of the many people looking to sue him for not paying them after his failed 2010 THC EXPOSE.
Fortunately for me I have had more good friends than bad, and even though Brian was an expensive lesson – it was a lesson nonetheless and I am stronger for it.
I am not done with the THC EXPO - as it was my goal in 2009 to bring together the international Cannabis industry under one roof and make the largest statement I could that Cannabis should not be a illegal. Since my 2009 event, I have helped release 3 books (about to release a 4th) and a full-length documentary about Cannabis, and I have also produced a weekend of lectures in my home state teaching people how to GrowMEDICINE at no less than the Rhode Island Convention Center: unlike your hero Brian; I did not go on to rip off my friends and disappear, I went on to get an award with the likes of Dr Lester Grinspoon and Richard Branson and in fact, if you knew how good I lived, you would hate me even more.
--------------------------
-----------------
-=The below paste is From Todd McCormick @HEMPxxx =-
-----------------
Dave Richards is full of BS stories and was a Federal informant in the 1997 case against me. Dave did months in prison because of his cooperation and I did 5 years in prison for my lack of cooperation.
For the record - I absolutely despise the allegations Dave is making about me to bolster his own story. I NEVER smuggled seeds through LAX when I arrived back in California in December of 1996. I did however, officially declare my medical Cannabis with my international prescription from my Dutch physician, at customs and I was thoroughly searched. After the DEA would not intervene and the LAPD would not arrest me, customs finally released me, but confiscated my medical Cannabis. Eric Shevin represented me as my attorney in my case against customs, in my attempt to get my medical Cannabis returned. In the 90's I declared my medical Cannabis at customs twice in order to make a political point that Cannabis is medicine.
I hope everybody listening to this realizes that being a snitch is absolutely horrible, what's worse is making up completely fabricated scenarios to facilitate the stories. People should stop snitching - after listening to this broadcast today, I can only imagine the amount of fertilizer Dave spread around to the feds to get himself out of going to prison for his own grows.
Furthermore, in regards to OG KUSH - I was given a cutting of the plant in 1997 and Dave Richards did NOT HAVE ANYTHING to do with it. There was a small group of growers in Los Angeles who were growing OG and I was fortunate enough to be given a plant and brought into their circle. The story back then was that it came from a brother who brought it in from Florida. Dave absolutely had nothing to do with me getting the cutting of OG and Dave was pissed off back in 1997, that I would not give him a cutting of it, only because I was loyal to my friends who were kind enough to give me a cutting and had specifically asked me not to give cuttings out to anybody. Back then, people growing OG did not want to see guys like Dave commercialize strains that had taken a lot of work (by people other than Dave) and grown out to be highly regarded as connoisseur quality Cannabis.
After I was released from prison in 2004, I was again given OG Kush and specifically asked if this time I could share it. Coincidentally, the brother who brought OG from Florida died in a skiing accident and his friends thought it would be most appropriate if I used the plant to get back on my feet. With their good graces, I distributed OG Kush clones throughout Los Angeles that were authentic cuttings of the original plant that was made famous in Los Angeles and given to me multiple times from 1997 on. I can attest that there were actual copies of OG available in various medical clubs in 2004, 2005 and 2006 through "Select Strains". (I was busted again on June 9th, 2006 by LAPD and served 4 days in LA JAIL, 45 days on house arrest, 3 years probation - as it is not easy being green).
I personally believe that we should share the genetics, I believe that really good cannabis can only make the world a better, more peaceful place to live in. 18 years later, I still have OG Kush and probably will forever.
Todd McCormick: HEMP.xxx ~ THC EXPO ~ The Emperor Wears No Clothes 12th Edition ~ PROTESTIVAL - A 20 Year Retrospective of Seattle Hemp Fest ~ How To Grow Medical Marijuana ~ The Union: The Business Behind Geting High & The Culture High
---------------
from MrBelvedere: the Richards story goes completely haywire right after he goes from his tale of driving to the mansion to smoke out Woody and Jack, and a minute later is saying he has thousands of priceless seeds but his wife will not let him germinate them LOL.
Thanks for your activism in ending prohibition, there's very few people who truly take it to heart.
---------------
Update - I communicated with the daughter of Frank Gegax and she told me that DAVE HAS NEVER MET her father Frank, that her sister went to school with Dave Richards and that she thinks that Dave did go loot the grow site AFTER the bust, but what he may have found/stolen/looted from the DEA raided grow site is unknown. I have to go back and actually listen to his whole story - I just couldn't bother to listen to him go on, but now that I know the premise of his story is totally fabricated I want to give it a listen.
Thank you for the kind words - we are all making the world better by just resisting the oppression.
Hugs n Hash - Todd
---------------
To me, there is only one OG KUSH; when I first got it in Los Angeles in 1997 the O.G. stood for Original Gangster - and I think that name came from the Ice-T reference in hip-hop; O.G. Original Gangster, which is the fourth album by Ice-T. Released in 1991. O.G. became famous in Los Angeles and mostly within the hip-hop community, as there was Kush - like Hindu Kush sold in Sensi catalogs and commonly grown in Humboldt and Mendocino County, and then there was O.G. Kush - which was always awesome indoor bud, grown by a small group of growers that knew what they were doing and put out a product that became world-famous. All the BS about "organically grown" is hippy fantasy. O.G. was mostly grown in LA, mostly hydroponically and flowered late into its cycle, to the point which there were practically no stigmas and the resin was thick; O.G. was always green and sticky and the bracts fat.
And in regards to Nevil (hash and hugs dear sir) - I can attest that O.G. Kush is not reminiscent of Jack Herer. I was literally standing next to Jack Herer in 1994 when Ben Dronkers christened NL5xHzC X SK1xHzC - Jack Herer at the Cannabis Castle in Holland. That year Jack (the bud) was incredibly spicy and had the aroma of what I would later call "Nevil's Haze" - only because I have had the great fortune of smoking with Nevil in 96'. NL5 x Haze was for a long time my favorite strain and even won the 1996 HT Cannabis Cup in the Hydro category as NL5xHaze x Mist - even though it was grown in soil by a gentleman named Tom, and not a cross with Kali Mist. (And years later I want to say thank you to Nevil for that wonderful evening - if you remember, I found a seed in the bud you gave me to smoke, and when I offered it back to you, you laughed and told me I could keep it. I immediately proclaimed that I hoped it was a female and you said no, that I should hope it was a male, so that then I could mix it will all my favorite females. I'll never forget that perspective, and I thank you for it. That single seeed ended up being a male - unfortunately I lost it in the July 97 raid.)
O.G. Kush is greasy, whereas the Haze is spicy. I have a phenotype that is the best example of Nevil's Haze that I have smoked in North America and the O.G. is practically the polar opposite. After I got out of prison, I met a guy who lit a joint of what he called Super Silver Haze and it smelled like a bud that was handed to me by Nevil that evening in the 90's. I asked him where he got it and he told me that one of his friends had traveled to the Netherlands in 1997 or 1998, and met a guy named Nevil, played chess and smoked together. He bought seeds from Nevil and upon arriving home, picked the female that most reminded him of the Cannabis he smoked with Nevil. He quickly told me that he did not know if the story was true, but I felt it was because the scent of the Haze is unmistakable. He was nice enough to give me a cutting and years later I had both the Haze and O.G. tested by Steep Hill (circa 2009) and the O.G. came back at 20.6% and the Haze at 23.7% THC.
I still call the cutting I have "Nevil's Haze" and not "Super Silver Haze" because I think the sample of SSH that is floating around the San Francisco Bay should (I think) be called "Super Silver Skunk" because it flowers fast and is thick, and it does not have that unique Haze spicy scent. I will post photos of both my Haze and O.G. for the sake of comparison. The Haze I have is smallish buds, flowers in 70 to 77 days and is my morning favorite.
I will also attach some photos of O.G. Kush dried buds that I photographed while smoking with DJ Pooh - Pooh is the music producer for Ice Cube and co-creator of the movie FRIDAY. O.G Kush was practically all he smoked and is a very authentic photo of O.G. (Pooh was also nice enough to bail me out of jail in June 2006, after I got busted yet again, and also was DJ at my first party at the Playboy mansion to benefit the Marijuana Policy Project in 2007.)
Which brings me around to commenting on Dave Richards testimony on Adams show now that I have listened to it all. So much of what he says is to me is absolute fabrication. For instance, Woody Harrelson, who bailed me out of the feds to the tune of $500,000., was in Australia the evening I was raided and Dave is completely lying when he says that he had plans to have dinner at my house with Woody and of all people, Jack Nicholson. I also think that this is a great example of David's "fireside story", as it's one grain of truth mixed with confusion created by Dave's fantasy. Dave has only met Jack Nicholson in his imagination, which is the same place he met Frank. Furthermore, as for sentencing, I had no priors and I can prove it with my pretrial service investigation report. I did 5 years because I would not cooperate, it is that simple. I am currently being prosecuted and Tony Serra is my attorney, specifically because I would not cooperate yet again, after being raided in conjunction with Oaksterdam University and my old friend Richard Lee in 2012. As one week after the raid, I got a call from a very friendly police officer asking me if I would come down and cooperate, and I said no: 10 months later I received paperwork telling me to come on down to state court to go around again. At this point in my life I am numb to the system and have no fucks to give, I am proud that I have stayed true to my friends and Dave is right about one thing, everything did end up really comfortable for me, mainly because I did not stop trying to pick myself up, dust myself off and be grateful that I was still breathing. Cancer did not get me down, and I'll be damned if this stupid plant prohibition is going to do it.
------------------
@SpiderK - for a moment I thought you were Nevil Schoenmakers - but most obviously you are not. Nevil knows me, and you don't even know when "Jack Herer" was released. Why are you writing in first person and signing it Nevil - when you are obviously not Nevil Schoenmakers?
And yes, I was in and out of jail and I did not lose the O.G. because the guys who were growing it kept giving back to me. And after reading your flippant comments about Woody living out of the country during my bust, all I can think is that you are freaking stupid or drinking out of the same fantasy–fountain as Dave Richards - as Woody still to this day has had the same house in Beverly Hills that he purchased when he was doing Cheers - and surprise, other houses to. If your level of intelligence in regards to regurgitating other people's expertise is reflected in your lack of knowledge of what you speak in regards to Woody – I highly doubt anything you are blabbing about in regards to Cannabis. The memorable evening I wrote about having with Nevil happened sometime in 1996 and up to that point I had never heard of O.G. Kush, our conversation revolved around HAZE. I only first encountered O.G. Kush in Los Angeles in February 1997 and shortly thereafter was given a cutting for the first time.
As for trying to build up my credibility – I really couldn't give two fucks to be know for my gardening abilities, but I do care about people lying about my life, which is what brought me here. I have been growing Cannabis since 1984 and going in and out of jail for it and only it, since I started hanging out with Jack Herer and working on his book. After he passed away in 2010, I released the 12th edition of the Emperor - go read my memorial to him on page 16 if you're having trouble believing what I write here. And yes, I certainly was standing next to Jack in November 1994 when Sensi first opened the Cannabis Castle to the public and presented Jack with his namesake bud. Ask Ben or Alan Dronkers if your memory doesn't serve you, or if because you actually weren't there.
I attended the 1994 Cannabis Cup with Jack Herer after staying at Steve Hager's New York apartment and flying into Amsterdam with most of the HT crew, I also attended the 1995 Cannabis Cup and worked for HT/Steve Hager showing 60 minutes around Amsterdam, and then lived in Amsterdam the entire year of 1996 while working at Positronics, while also working with Simon at Serious Seeds, and even that year as editor-in-chief at High Life magazine, working on publishing an English edition of their Dutch magazine titled Hemp Life (which was released in November 1996 throughout Europe).
As for Woody bailing me out of federal prison – it is public knowledge:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/BRIEFLY : BEL-AIR POT SUSPECT BAILED OUT BY ACTOR.-a083876073
As for hanging out with rappers, well friends come in all shapes, sizes and colors – at least mine do, living in LA I have met smokers from all walks of life and I really do not care if a person is or is not famous, just if they are kind. Before I went to prison, Woody and I also did college tours and I even spoke at Woodstock 99' > www.spitfiretour.org
For a moment in my life – Dave Richards was a friend of mine, I will attach a photo of he and I which appeared in an Amsterdam newspaper in September 1996, we were both smoking at the HASH-BASH and having a great time. But that was before Dave showed his true colors and I found out he was a liar, later I would find out he was also a government informant with the spine of a jellyfish, and there is not a much better example of that than listening to him give false testimony as to my activities and the people that were at my house on freaking YouTube.
After I got out of prison in 2004, I got back into activism: in 2005 I helped make THE UNION: The Business Behind Getting High, co-produced three parties the Playboy mansion for the Marijuana Policy Project in 2007, 2008 & 2009, and then moved to the Los Angeles Convention Center for my June 2009 THC Expo. In 2010, I worked on and released the 12th edition of Jack's book, in 2011, I worked with Vivian McPeak and we created and released PROTESTIVAL: A 20 Retrospective of Seattle Hempfest, in 2012 I got raided yet again and then went onto received the Cannabis Cultural Award alongside Sir Richard Branson and Dr. Lester Grinspoon from Ben Dronkers, who just happens to be the guy who I was standing in front of when he named Jack Herer the bud. And just last October, we released THE CULTURE HIGH - if you haven't seen it, please do, it has some or my "rapper friends".
@Frostynugman back in 2008/2009 Steep Hill "lab reports" were not much more than a single sheet of paper expressing the percentages of cannabinoids and I did not keep them.
I personally have no doubt that there are lots of copies of true O.G. Kush floating around under various names, because as I said in one of my earlier posts, I was selling cuttings of the famous plant in 2004, 2005 and 2006 all over Los Angeles.
--------------------
@SpiderK - holy fertilizer – there is no crew! Who are you and what is your real name? Because there is nothing I have less respect for some internet troll hiding behind a pseudonym. If you not going to give your true identity than just shut up. There is few things worse than a coward hiding behind a fake name. And with the comment about Woody was living in Costa Rica - proves you really are just a newspaper reader.
I'm not hiding anything – I am just clarifying some bullshit some dumbass that I met in Holland is talking about in a public forum, and trying to bring some light onto a conversation that I happen to know a lot about. I don't know how many people in this form have been growing OG since 1997, but – I have, that is, when I'm not in prison.
I have been a loner grower since I started growling in my closet and I have no plans on changing. I met Dave Richards at the Greenhouse Cafe and had nothing to do with much of the stupidity he is talking about. Dave is living vicariously through other people's lives, he somehow fabricated Frank's bust into his imagination as being part of it because he simply looted a raided grow site. Frank's daughter contacted me to bring this information to light, I never bothered to contact her first because I did not know Frank. Dave is also blatantly fabricating his stories involving me, which is really why I came on this forum, to clarify the bullshit he was spreading.
Dave Richards met Peter McWilliams because Peter gave me a rather sizable book advance to produce not just my book titled; "How To Grow Medical Marijuana" which was released in 1998, but he also wanted me to put together grow websites and create grow videos.
Woody bailed me out of jail on his own regard, and I am thankful he did it because there's no way I would've been able to come up with $500,000 in cash. And I am not a commercial grower, if anything I am a producer, as I produce books, movies and events. In 97' Peter was a multimillionaire and Dave was quick to become a bottom feeder trying to impress Peter and get his hands on some money, I quickly regretted ever letting David meet Peter. However, what I was doing at my house was my own project and had nothing to do with other people's commercial interests. After I got busted in 1997, there is evidence that David and Peter and others were pursuing commercial interests, but I had nothing to do with it. In 1998 Jack Herer and I were working together on the rerelease of the Emperor.
I don't give two shits about breeding - in my opinion, most people are just mixing together the same old strains and calling it their own. My goal upon returning from Amsterdam was to simply identify the various strains available to me and categorize them by the amount of time they took to flower, and the cannabinoid levels they produced. I was hoping to start doing cannabinoid analysis of my plants back in 1997, so that I could start publishing the information in hopes that we could all have a better understanding of what was available in the Cannabis world.
After having cancer 10 times – my life goal is not to make a lot of money, my goal is to spread the truth about cannabis, as I feel that I owe the plant a great deal, as I believe it was instrumental in me overcoming my childhood disease.
----------------------
@oahno hopefully you never have to find this all on your own, so I will tell you. When you're arrested, you can do one of two things: pay 10% to a bondsman, money which you will never see returned. The second thing you can do, is put the full bond up in either cash or property, and if you do that, you will get back all of your money upon completion of the court proceedings. Woody put up the entire amount in 1997 and got it all returned when I went to prison in 2000, the government was even nice enough to pay 5% interest annually.
@FiveAM - I got carried away and I could afford the equipment. And I'm not saying that I did not have workers at my house helping me out to water and repot and keep the house clean, as when I was living in Bel Air money was not an issue, nor was it my intention to sell the Cannabis I was growing for profit. I actually believed that I could make more money off of books, videos, and website information that I could selling grams of weed; my publisher Peter McWilliams was a five-time, New York Times best-selling author and my dreams had nothing to do with selling kilos of Cannabis.
---------------------
MODERATOR: @HEMPxxx Is a legend in the cannabis community. If you want to troll him you will be banned. Show some respect or I'll show you the fucking door.
----------------------
Hey everybody – let me just start off by saying that I most certainly did not come into this forum to start fertilizer with anybody - Mr. Spiderman included. I feel like I have been very fortunate witness too much of this movement and I try to do my part to do what I can to stop the disinformation and spread the truth wherever I can.
A crazy lesson of the whole Bel Air bust was that I experienced a lot of people being very kind to me - I mean, you would never want to test your friends by putting yourself into a horrible situation but to find yourself in a horrible situation and realized there were people like Woody, who stood up and helped me out when I least expected it really was a beautiful experience. I truly believe that nature favors the brave and support came from places I would have never expected, such as, a little old lady from Boise Idaho who was 71 years old, read about our story on ifeminist.com and wanted to write to me telling me that she supported our cause, she did not know me she was just being kind and going through the whole experience was profound. It was made clear to me early on in the prosecution that had I cooperated I could have mitigated the charges against me but at the time I made the decision that I would rather walk away from everything I had ever owned, than to sell my soul cooperating with what I saw as the other side of right.
At my sentencing I delivered a 40 minute speech denouncing government oppression and never apologized for growing flowers I believe that what we are doing is right and that prohibiting nature is wrong. And the main reason I came into this forum is because I wanted to stand on the side of truth, not because I wanted adulation, I learned a long time ago that I really do not like attention, but I do appreciate all of your kind words and sentiment, and I feel the same way about people like Jack Herer, Ben Dronkers, Nevil and many others who have shared their wisdom for the betterment of us all.
I wish I had the answers to all things O.G., truth be told, she was not that famous when I first got her and she was not even my favorite. I caught major shit for calling O.G. high-end commercial bud (at 9 weeks) as comparing it to long flowering HAZE being truly connoisseur quality cannabis. I find it interesting that there is so much interest in this cutting and the only reason I chimed in, is because there was incorrect information being presented including me.
Back in Bel Air I had over 50 strains growing simultaneously, I moved into the house in February and was using the absolutely massive outdoor area to start seeds, I was buying my soil by the pallet and having a blast outdoors while I built my 70 light indoor grow. It was honestly a little boy's dream come true, out of the closet and into a freaking mansion - words cannot describe how much fun I was having simply gardening and staying home. I made friends by happenstance and the herb brings us together. I honestly thought that the law changing made a difference, I mean, after alcohol prohibition ended, did not Jack Daniels go from being a bootlegger to a businessman?
What the press did not report was that I was in negotiations with Larry Flynt and Woody to start a magazine about Cannabis, turns out that Larry Flynt once distributed high times through the 70's and his comment to me was that marijuana was a lot more popular in the late 90s than it was in the late 70s, unfortunately I got busted in the middle of negotiations, but both guys did their best to defend me, Woody bailed me out and Larry sent his lawyers, I did not ask for it and that is probably why they helped me out.
In 1997 I never distributed OG Kush to anybody - and I sure as hell never sold Jason King and eight of Hash Plant for $100.! It may be crazy to comprehend but, I never sold weed to anybody out of the mansion in Bel Air - I did not have to, I had money from my book advance and was too busy spending it, to worry about getting cash for a few grams of dried up flowers, which were in silly abundance in my life at this time. I literally had a dry bar with 50 jars that each comfortably held 100g of buds - for guests.
I grew out many of the strains Dave had such as heavy-duty fruity, his Mendocino, and Hash Plant, I absolutely loved a plant called Babylon - it flowered in under eight weeks but smelled and tasted like a Kali Mist/HAZE, it never developed more than five leaflets and the leaves looked like they were designed by Black & Decker - rigid sharp serrated leaves that turned up, it did not look like an Afghan and sure the flock does not look like OG, in fact nothing in Dave's little bag of tricks even remotely resembled any of the piny/greasy varieties such as; New York City Diesel, Sour Diesel, O.G., or Chem Dawg (in the Dead circle where I first got Chem Dawg - that is how we spelled it, in connection to the band, which is also how I think OG became the tag line to Kush in LA, it was slang that the hip-hop kids used just like "dawg" was slang that the Dead Heads used).
I do not claim to be the best grower - I joke that my teacher, Robert Clarke, has had the opportunity to forget more about Cannabis than I have had the opportunity to learn. (Shameless plug - please pick up a copy of Cannabis: Evolution and Ethnobotany - in it you will see 2 of my photos!) The photos I have posted I have both grown and photographed, so I can speak to their authenticity.
I grew everything Dave had in Amsterdam at Positronics in 1996 after Dave split with Greenhouse - Scott - aka Shanibaba dropped off Dave's plants to me at Posi, if you see him ask him, he'll tell ya. Dave's strains were ok, nothing spectacular, no HAZE, mostly what I would call commercial, 8 to 9 weeks and mostly Afghan crossed varieties. All of his BS about government tested strains is absolute Santa Claus coming down the chimney material. I cannot imagine for a moment that Frank could have walked away from 12 years in prison by simply giving up his garden - which I would like to point out, the DEA took anyway and I am sure samples of his Cannabis ended up at the University of Mississippi for analysis, as does a lot of the cannabis seized.
If anybody wants to private message me they are more than welcome to and I will do my best to answer questions, but I have pretty much stated what I know about the lineage of OG - do not want to mention the guys name who gave it to me out of respect for other people's privacy, so please do not ask.
Please enjoy a pirated copy of our latest film: http://vidzi.tv/l9qiox4f9e5f.html#.VEaJLGCj-_k.twitter
-------------------------
@dogznova unfortunately, no – but I have smoked some pretty amazing blueberry that came out of Oregon – or so I thought in the 90s.
And just as a notation because I know you are all so keen on the details – the cover of my book is actually a Train Wreck cross from Northern California and not OG.
@MrBelvedere - thank you for the breakdown!
@sanvanalona - yes – I smoke a lot actually, I really enjoyed the taste and scent of fresh or I should say, perfectly cured Cannabis every morning. I find it to be a nice way to wake up in comparison to going straight to dabs - which often happens. Although, I had a realization with much of the "dabs" that are generally available, are narcotic because they are made with varieties which are quick flowering: which was similar to the realization I had when I got to Amsterdam in 94, and realized HAZE would wake me up like a morning coffee, as up to the point I only had access to seeds from bags of (supposedly) greenhouse grown buds from Vermont in the early 80s - I spent the 80s growing something that resembles the stink of a skunk.
And of course I know Renée - she was like the opposite of Dave Richards, she wouldn't cooperate and faced prison as opposed to being part of the prosecution against me and Peter. I cannot speak about any of the strains in Vancouver during the years that she was up there, which is 98 on - I was living in California and fighting the prosecution, I self surrendered to prison January 3, 2000, and was only in touch with my friends mostly through mail, although obviously some did visit.
I would also like to point out that the Skunk is a North American animal and not native to the Netherlands - which is probably why the variety of Cannabis that they call "Skunk", smells sweet and so unlike the varieties that we call skunk in North America, which are more putrid and skunk-like. If you're reading this and you have lived in North America, then the chances are you know what it smells like to smell a skunk, it is very difficult to describe, but it is also very reminiscent to certain North American strains of Cannabis.
@soopy - I have grown Chem 91 and it is close to OG and I have always thought the were related somewhere along the line: and although Chem has a better yield, OG is brighter in scent and when smoking, and also has better resin development. I get bored of toking Chem and would rather have OG. Attached is a photo of Chem that I took and grew from a cutting going around California.
@MrBelvedere I have grown the Hindu Kush from Sensi Seeds as we had a nice sample at Positronics, although I only watched it flower through 2 or 3 cycles. I was fortunate enough to grow a lot of the Dutch varieties when I was there in 96, as I was working at Posi that entire year with Ol' Ed Holloway (who turned 80 in 1996 - he was credited with teaching Wernard how to grow seedless back in the early 70s and came back as a guest in 96). And I would like to point out that the Hindu Kush in the Dutch gene pool shure does not smell like what we call OG Kush in California - as Hindu Kush sold in Europe often smells sweet - and not piney like the Hindu Kush samples that I have grown/seen in Mendocino in 94' - which I would like to also point out, also does not smell like what we call OG Kush.
My friend was just over visiting and I asked him to describe OG Kush, he also lived in LA in the 90's, and has smoked a lot of OG, he called the taste of OG Kush "Umami". I had to look it up, but I think he hit it dead on:
From Wikipedia: Umami/uːˈmɑːmi/, a savory taste, is one of the five basic tastes (together with sweet, sour, bitter and salty).
So in my opinion:
Hindu Kush - from Amsterdam is sweet almost early Skunk #1-ish
Hindu Kush - from Mendocino, California is more Piney
OG. Kush is Umami - or like a combination of all tastes, it is thick and flavorful.
I have also moved away from describing varieties with the old taxonomy of Sativa & Indica - as Rob Clarke and Mark Merlin lay out the best argument I have read in Cannabis: Evolution and Ethnobotany, and that is that nobody smokes SATIVA - it is simply a Latin suffix used to describe useful plants, there is a Lettuce Sativa L. and nobody smokes that either. The Latin suffix was attached to plants that they were finding most useful or using industrially, ya know - HEMP, so Sativa was describing industrial-use varieties being identified by farmers in Europe.
Whereas INDICA - simply means; of or like India, in fact, many items that originate from India are called "Indica". And because India was the - dare I say it - OG Cannabis capital the world - all of the drug varieties were Indica, in comparison to all of the industrial varieties being tagged with the suffix SATIVA.
Now what are we really trying to describe with the two words is more describable by how North or South the plant originated, such as a very Northern Afghan variety that flowers fast, we call INDICA, and rightly so, because India was once that entire area of the Hindu Kush Mountains and into what is now Pakistan. But if we travel South towards Goa and encountered varieties at the southernmost tip of India, they would have narrow leaves and flower for (one could say countless) weeks because they were equatorial - or simply put, acclimated closer to the equator. But it would all be INDICA, from the southernmost tip of India where Cannabis flowers in as long as 16 weeks (or forever if you are watching it) to the Hindu Kush Mountains where we find some of the shortest flowing varieties of Cannabis in the world. So all drug varieties are basically INDICA.
I would also make the argument that during the 50s and 60s, and much of the 70s, most of America was smoking equatorial varieties of Cannabis: Acapulco Gold, Thai Stick - Vietnam, Mexican, Hawaiian, Jamaican, - all high-energy Ganja, and then in the late 70s and 80s, when breeders started mixing Afghan into pretty much everything they could get their hands on, the Cannabis smoking experience became very (dear I say) polluted with Afghan genetics that produced narcotic like effects and "couch lock" became a term to describe how you felt when you smoked really strong herb. Why? Because growers were looking for the fastest, fattest flowers they could grow. Quick, high yield indoor Cannabis was definitely a product of prohibition, and now that we are seeing quasi-legalization, I would just like to make the argument that people should start looking at setting up perpetual flowering systems and growing flowers that take longer than 8 to 10 weeks to flower. There is a whole new world to be found in Cannabis in some of these later flowering varieties, but the market has to be open-minded and start judging Cannabis not on what it looks like, but instead on how it feels.
I also think that we should start judging cannabis more upon its cannabinoid and terpene ratios and less upon it's flowering time and yield. As some of my favorite varieties are equatorial and will never deliver the same yield of more commercial cannabis, but I really don't care either. I would rather have the high-energy, complexity of an equatorial variety than almost any Northern, quick flowering variety.
@MrBelvedere Unfortunately I have never had my Cannabis returned after a raid and sadly I have lost genetics that are irreplaceable. I will attach a before and after photo of my old mother room, it just sucks and that is why I really recommend people share their genetics with their friends so that if something bad happens to your garden, you can go back around to your friends and gather up your favorite genetics and dust yourself off and start all over.
I hope I got everybody's questions – thank you everybody for the kindness and happy gardening!
-------------------------
Hey everybody – thanks for the love - I would prefer not to say anything bad about anybody and I did not come in here to talk negatively about anybody either. I actually think happiness is a choice and I do my best to live a positive lifestyle, regardless of the prosecutions I've been dealing with, or the reoccurring cancer I faced as a child or when dealing with some of the clowns we all encounter in life. My motivation in posting was simply to correct inaccurate information regarding myself in this forum: Dave saying that I was an international seed smuggler for him and that I was selling $100.- eights to Jason King, AND that he was coming to my house to have dinner with Woody and Jack Nicholson - and I could go on...was just too much for me to let go.
@Hrpuffnstuff - I pride myself on being able to be honest my entire life and I have lived my life in a way that I have never had to rely on lies to get by, and for that I thank the plant, and I do what I do politically in order to educate the world about Cannabis, because of the health and independence it has given me. I have never lied, cheated or stolen my entire life - because I didn't fucking have to, and I say that boldly, not hiding behind some pseudonym as you are. It's easy to talk shit when you're hiding behind a screen, but I'm not here hiding who I am, but you are basically lying by hiding your identity from start of your typing.
So you want to bring up Brian freaking Roberts - glad to, after he ripped me off trying to do the THC EXPO without me, and failing miserably - I got to talking to his childhood friend and first business partner Ramsey, who he founded that THC sticker company with, and found out that Brian had ripped off Ramsey before he ripped off me. And then in 2011 when I was walking into the HT SF Cannabis Cup, I walked into Aaron - of DNA Seeds - and he pulled me aside to tell me that Brian had just ripped off DNA for over $150 grand! Ask either Aaron or Don - they will let you know what they think of ol' Brian. So turns out, I was just second in line to a chronic con-man and thief. Last time Jorge Cervantes was at my house visiting me - you can see even more of my photographs in his next book - Jorge told me that he heard Brian was a heroin addict living in Northern California, no doubt hiding out from some of the many people looking to sue him for not paying them after his failed 2010 THC EXPOSE.
Fortunately for me I have had more good friends than bad, and even though Brian was an expensive lesson – it was a lesson nonetheless and I am stronger for it.
I am not done with the THC EXPO - as it was my goal in 2009 to bring together the international Cannabis industry under one roof and make the largest statement I could that Cannabis should not be a illegal. Since my 2009 event, I have helped release 3 books (about to release a 4th) and a full-length documentary about Cannabis, and I have also produced a weekend of lectures in my home state teaching people how to GrowMEDICINE at no less than the Rhode Island Convention Center: unlike your hero Brian; I did not go on to rip off my friends and disappear, I went on to get an award with the likes of Dr Lester Grinspoon and Richard Branson and in fact, if you knew how good I lived, you would hate me even more.
--------------------------
Last edited:
ThirdEyeVision
Active member
Great info. It was that 1995 60 minutes piece that blew my mind and made me realize i could grow indoor on a small scale with beans shipped from the dam...as opposed to the crazy guerilla brick weed grows we were trying.
CobCoop said the exact same thing about the Chem '91 s1s he sorted though...and I know his cut was legit SkunkVa...
@MrBelvedere - thank you for sharing that. One of the most interesting things I've read on a forum in ages.
dank.Frank
Last edited:
Hells yea, some people talk about going hard, he is breathing proof it happens. Talk about a man of his word, damn.
In the book Heart of Dankness: Underground Botanists, Outlaw Farmers, and the Race for the Cannabis Cup by Mark Haskell Smith there is another backstory about the origins of chemdog and og. This backstory from a collective dude Michael saying OG was bred in Sylmar, CA. (LA)
This book is full of great information, some misinformation, and also a lot of speculation, so take it for what its worth. The fact he says "maybe" about finding dank at a Dead show makes me seriously wonder if he knows wtf he is talking about lol.
Looks like all we need to do is find some old Northern Lights and cross it with some dirtweed lol. Easy Peazy.
--------------------------
page 156 and 157
You know? The claims of ‘I’ve got the Congolese Green from the Burunga range,’ you know? I don’t know. Prove it, pal. We’re going to start a project called ‘Who’s Your Daddy?’ And what it is, is just tracing mitochondrial DNA from plants to establish a true taxonomy. Because, really, there’s bullshit and then there’s more bullshit. I think there are a lot fewer chemovars out there, a lot fewer landraces were used to create, primarily, what we’ve got.”
“Like Northern Lights.”
He folded his arms across his chest and laughed.
“Northern Lights is like that ugly cat that made all the cats in your neighborhood. I mean, there’s a lot of Northern Lights in strains that people will never admit in a million years that it’s there. You hear about OG Kush, you know, the Chemdog story …”
It seems to me like almost every strain has some kind of origination myth behind it, and the popular Chemdog strain is no different . As legend has it, the weed was first smoked by a Deadhead at a Grateful Dead show in the midwest. Someone named “Joebrand” sold an ounce of super-good weed to a guy who went by the name “Chemdog.” Chemdog liked the weed and arranged for two more ounces to be shipped to him on the East Coast. One ounce was seedless but the other turned out to have thirteen seeds. I’m not a mystic, but there is apparently some kind of hippie voodoo significance to the Grateful Dead, the number thirteen, and these magic seeds.
Michael was skeptical.
“Now, maybe they found it at a Grateful Dead concert. Maybe. But you know, the guys who invented OG Kush invented it in Sylmar and they were breeding Mexican dirt weed and Northern Lights. That’s where OG Kush came from. What’s interesting is the chemovars that show up in OG Kush are Northern Lights, Thai, because only northern Thais smell like oranges, and Nepalese , because only Nepalese smell like fuel . So whatever junkyard dogs are in these strains, you know, somebody hit the jackpot and got the right phenotype.”
-------------------
if you google for terms:
heart of dankness chemdog
you can some pages of chapter online, I can post the entire chapter but it will be another long post
Last edited:
MrBelvedere said:
Thanks for sharing those infos.
Todd got the OG Kush clone in 1997,.Did he mentioned anything about since when his connection were running it?
I'm wondering if this people are related to Josh, who said he brought the OG Kush clone from Florida to Cali in 1996. Is that clone that will be later sold to Ghost forum member by ORGNKID. The cut will be called Ghost OG.
In the Adam show ORGNKID explain that on all the OG clones around, many could simply be the same cut, simply renamed.
Now if Todd and ORGNKID had the same cut, meaning the Ghost cut, then it could be that a lot of nowadays OG are simply s1 or 2 or 3?? of the Ghost cut, or even just the Ghost cut renamed over and over. Science will let us know soon hopefully.
Now what about the TK? Well either BR is not saying the truth, or he's saying the truth. If it's the truth, then they must be a relation ship between the TK and the cut Josh brought to Cali in 96. I mean we don't see this kind of genetics poping out of no where everyday, are we? Josh said they got the seeds on buds they got in Florida in 1991. So both time frame and the place are matching. If he's bullshitting then maybe TK is just a ghost s1 or x, as many others would be.
Hard to trust that OG Kush is Dirt weed x Nothern Light
I can't wait until both BR and the 96 Todd connection broke their silence and get to the Adam show, so we can finally get the truth about this. Good think is we never been as close as we are today to the truth...
Todd mentions that in 04/05 when he started selling cuts to everyone, that when he inquired, his friends told him the Original guy that brought the OG out from Florida had died. Kinda squashes Bubba or Josh having anything to do with it's finding, unless Todd was told a rumour or Bubba and Josh trumped up their involvement.
What we know for sure is that Josh and Matt had the cut in 96, and that it is from Florida. Todd have explained that his connection wanted to remain unknown to the public, so it could be a rumour indeed.
How do you know for sure they had the cut in 96 and that it came from Florida?
Everyone's stories point to that, YES, BUT DO WE HAVE ANY FIRST HAND INFO THAT IS ACTUALLY CAME FROM FLORIDA? To a certain degree, YES, depends on who you believe.
Scenario 1: Assuming Big Ricky is correct, TK is the original florida cut. And anything that isn't it, is likely an S1 or hybrid. The clone is from Florida, his first hand info. perfect
Scenario 2: Bubba and Josh got a bag of weed in Florida in 1991. That bag could have come from anywhere. Could have been a TK S1, coulda been a random bag imported from anywhere in the country. No way to know at all. Coulda been some cali herb, oregon, virginia, anywhere. LOL. According the Bubba and Josh, THEY popped the seed and brought it out to Cali in 1996. So if all that is true, then yes, OG in CALI was popped from seed found in Florida.
Scenario 1&2 combined : both stories are true, TK is the original cut, and Cali OG is Bubba and Josh's cut that spread like wildfire and created all the og we know today. In that case, yes, Josh's OG is an S1 and anything beyond that is S2, S3, etc.
Scenario 3: According to Todd, the guy that actually brought OG to LA died sometime between 97-04 in a skiing accident. That would make Bubba's and Josh's story invalid, because they are still alive. The story Todd was told is that it came from Florida, but that is not first hand information. Just what he was told from his guys in the middle.
The skier guy could have been the person to pop the seed, or could have been one of many people from Florida, or wherever he was from (we don't know), that had the cut. In this scenario, Matt and Bubba are confirmed wrong, and the skier dude could have been just another guy with the TK cut and brought it out to Cali, or he could have just been some random guy with OG in LA and decided to make a story up about how it came from Florida. We need to ask the people Todd know to find out where their cut came from. Todd is simply confirming that it was in LA in 1997. Not where it came from, as that was all second hand.
Scenario 1 & 3 combined : Tk is the original. And the skier guy could have either had the original TK cut from Florida, or a bag seed he popped and brought. We don't know.
Scenario 1, 2, 3 combined. It is possible, that all of this was occurring at the same time. it wouldn't explain certain direct lineages, but it would account for the differences. Such as TK is the original cut, and bag seeds occurred from time to time. Both Josh/Bubba and the skier dude either grew bag seeds, or in the case of the skier, had the TK, and they both brought it out to LA with them around the same time. Or at least starting spreading cuts around the same time, and may account for some of the differences?
Let's please all try and stay impartial rather than jumping to automatic conclusions just because a couple strings tie into a loose knot. A loose knot doesn't mean that knot will hold in a storm.
Everyone's stories point to that, YES, BUT DO WE HAVE ANY FIRST HAND INFO THAT IS ACTUALLY CAME FROM FLORIDA? To a certain degree, YES, depends on who you believe.
Scenario 1: Assuming Big Ricky is correct, TK is the original florida cut. And anything that isn't it, is likely an S1 or hybrid. The clone is from Florida, his first hand info. perfect
Scenario 2: Bubba and Josh got a bag of weed in Florida in 1991. That bag could have come from anywhere. Could have been a TK S1, coulda been a random bag imported from anywhere in the country. No way to know at all. Coulda been some cali herb, oregon, virginia, anywhere. LOL. According the Bubba and Josh, THEY popped the seed and brought it out to Cali in 1996. So if all that is true, then yes, OG in CALI was popped from seed found in Florida.
Scenario 1&2 combined : both stories are true, TK is the original cut, and Cali OG is Bubba and Josh's cut that spread like wildfire and created all the og we know today. In that case, yes, Josh's OG is an S1 and anything beyond that is S2, S3, etc.
Scenario 3: According to Todd, the guy that actually brought OG to LA died sometime between 97-04 in a skiing accident. That would make Bubba's and Josh's story invalid, because they are still alive. The story Todd was told is that it came from Florida, but that is not first hand information. Just what he was told from his guys in the middle.
The skier guy could have been the person to pop the seed, or could have been one of many people from Florida, or wherever he was from (we don't know), that had the cut. In this scenario, Matt and Bubba are confirmed wrong, and the skier dude could have been just another guy with the TK cut and brought it out to Cali, or he could have just been some random guy with OG in LA and decided to make a story up about how it came from Florida. We need to ask the people Todd know to find out where their cut came from. Todd is simply confirming that it was in LA in 1997. Not where it came from, as that was all second hand.
Scenario 1 & 3 combined : Tk is the original. And the skier guy could have either had the original TK cut from Florida, or a bag seed he popped and brought. We don't know.
Scenario 1, 2, 3 combined. It is possible, that all of this was occurring at the same time. it wouldn't explain certain direct lineages, but it would account for the differences. Such as TK is the original cut, and bag seeds occurred from time to time. Both Josh/Bubba and the skier dude either grew bag seeds, or in the case of the skier, had the TK, and they both brought it out to LA with them around the same time. Or at least starting spreading cuts around the same time, and may account for some of the differences?
Let's please all try and stay impartial rather than jumping to automatic conclusions just because a couple strings tie into a loose knot. A loose knot doesn't mean that knot will hold in a storm.
it is really important to respect people's privacy, digging more into the story of people who wish to be ghosted/anonymous or are dead is disrespecting their privacy. Ethics are more important than anything even if just researching lineage.
But if people are making claims publicly, then no problem at looking at those claims to research lineage. Sometimes people making claims are also trying to research the lineage, sometimes they aren't.
Just like chemdog 91 was lost and refound, the same could have happened with og.
Good breakdown @thadocta
Hopefully Nspecta and others will give some thoughts
But if people are making claims publicly, then no problem at looking at those claims to research lineage. Sometimes people making claims are also trying to research the lineage, sometimes they aren't.
Just like chemdog 91 was lost and refound, the same could have happened with og.
Good breakdown @thadocta
Hopefully Nspecta and others will give some thoughts
Last edited:
More curious though...
How many people you going to see popping up claiming to have the original because their buddy picked it up in 05-07 from that Dispo...lol...
Give it a couple weeks...
Still, we are further along the trail than we have been in the last decade...so we have that going for us, which is nice.
dank.Frank
How many people you going to see popping up claiming to have the original because their buddy picked it up in 05-07 from that Dispo...lol...
Give it a couple weeks...
Still, we are further along the trail than we have been in the last decade...so we have that going for us, which is nice.
dank.Frank
genedigger
Member
every og pheno or cross ive grown, expressed what seemed to me to be sativa traits.sure her leaves are a little wide and ive only ever seen her make 5 fingers.but that plant structure, the long node spacing,9week+ flowering time,effect,and the fact that ive tried a bunch of thai strains that were wicked scittle lemon lime orange.i dont believe there is that much indica in her.
Another recurring theme is hermi traits pointing to possible Thai lineage. Would love to hear information on Nepalese strains smelling "fuel"... Early Mexican later crossed with Hindu Kush, Thai, NL, Nepalese, back to Thai, and finally back to Kush again all make sense in the final terpene profile
http://steephilllab.com/strain-fingerprint/ compare the dog to og here and see differences, notice how close SFV OG is to OG Kush. For verifying cuts Steep Hill is the best bet. Notice alien og and Fire og different than og Kush/SFV. SD looks closer to og than dog (even though they may not be related) fwiw. Notice og/SFV has "a lot of" of all the terps tested and so does SD.
http://sclabs.com/tested.html?optio...&test=Terpene&sclsearch=&client_ids=&limit=20
http://analytical360.com/testresults
All have great terpene profile information.
It is interesting how the smokers at large always give valuable help in "selection", not just the breeders and growers... Before these terpene reports were even available, informal smoke reports from the public selected og to get so popular, it is not just unwarranted hype why strains get popular. Even music lyrics are an informal smoke report, and can be helpful for establishing the timeline for rising strains
OG so popular on the west coast, Diesel so popular on the east coast, and coincidentally they both have complex terpene profiles, and 99% of the smoking public doesn't have a clue what a terpene is other than saying wow after they smell it and taste it. And the smoking public selected them for popularity before terpene reports even existed.
I first heard of Diesel weed originating from NYC on the east coast around 94, everybody tripping to New York who scored it loved it and told others. Quickly the word "diesel" turned into an adjective for *anything non weed* that was awesome/rad/killer. "Hey man, diesel board". "Damn man that ninja bike you got is diesel!" Skaters created popular clothing lines, many companies that wanted to have street creds would put the word diesel somewhere in there name for effect. Everybody I was running with knew it as simply diesel, not SD. It took a few years later to hear later to hear the name Sour Diesel. This is just anecdotal information.
http://steephilllab.com/strain-fingerprint/ compare the dog to og here and see differences, notice how close SFV OG is to OG Kush. For verifying cuts Steep Hill is the best bet. Notice alien og and Fire og different than og Kush/SFV. SD looks closer to og than dog (even though they may not be related) fwiw. Notice og/SFV has "a lot of" of all the terps tested and so does SD.
http://sclabs.com/tested.html?optio...&test=Terpene&sclsearch=&client_ids=&limit=20
http://analytical360.com/testresults
All have great terpene profile information.
It is interesting how the smokers at large always give valuable help in "selection", not just the breeders and growers... Before these terpene reports were even available, informal smoke reports from the public selected og to get so popular, it is not just unwarranted hype why strains get popular. Even music lyrics are an informal smoke report, and can be helpful for establishing the timeline for rising strains
OG so popular on the west coast, Diesel so popular on the east coast, and coincidentally they both have complex terpene profiles, and 99% of the smoking public doesn't have a clue what a terpene is other than saying wow after they smell it and taste it. And the smoking public selected them for popularity before terpene reports even existed.
I first heard of Diesel weed originating from NYC on the east coast around 94, everybody tripping to New York who scored it loved it and told others. Quickly the word "diesel" turned into an adjective for *anything non weed* that was awesome/rad/killer. "Hey man, diesel board". "Damn man that ninja bike you got is diesel!" Skaters created popular clothing lines, many companies that wanted to have street creds would put the word diesel somewhere in there name for effect. Everybody I was running with knew it as simply diesel, not SD. It took a few years later to hear later to hear the name Sour Diesel. This is just anecdotal information.
Last edited:
I'm giving up trying to help on this thread. I think I've said my piece. I'm not here to be the investigative police and pick apart each person's 2cents of why they think one strain or another may be in OG based off of pure speculative information or experience. I apologize if I seem like an asshole, but I guess I'm not really that interested in the hearsay, but more getting down to the bottom of the truth (in regards to each stories accounts and how they all fit). Preferably via the path of the least resistance in terms of waste of time and effort. I would like to know the truth just as much as the next guy, but not if it means wasting time trying to prevent misinformation or speculative afterthought spreading through the community. There are 2 I have a qualm with and I'm done.
Steep Hill is about as authoritative on strain knowledge and verification as the class nerd on the school playfield. The Werc Shop would be a much better source, and even they are still mostly in the dark. Some strains, spot on, others, completely off. And they test for 30-something terpenes. Much higher than anyone else and for much longer by a long time ICRS member and Phd scientist.
There are dozens of strains that aren't of Thai heritage that also show hermi traits. So I guess all of them are in OG too? I grew some Indoor/Outdoor Hashplant called Freezeland from Quebec ten years ago that smelled like Chem 91. Even grew kinda like it, although less stretchy are more HP-ish, but had an even more rank breath and chemmy smelling funk. It was too rank I tossed it. Smelled and tasted like fuelly halitosis breath! hahaha. Doesn't mean I can make any connection to heritage based off that.
Done.
Steep Hill is about as authoritative on strain knowledge and verification as the class nerd on the school playfield. The Werc Shop would be a much better source, and even they are still mostly in the dark. Some strains, spot on, others, completely off. And they test for 30-something terpenes. Much higher than anyone else and for much longer by a long time ICRS member and Phd scientist.
There are dozens of strains that aren't of Thai heritage that also show hermi traits. So I guess all of them are in OG too? I grew some Indoor/Outdoor Hashplant called Freezeland from Quebec ten years ago that smelled like Chem 91. Even grew kinda like it, although less stretchy are more HP-ish, but had an even more rank breath and chemmy smelling funk. It was too rank I tossed it. Smelled and tasted like fuelly halitosis breath! hahaha. Doesn't mean I can make any connection to heritage based off that.
Done.
Thx Docta for posting this, as this make sens. This is not based on dreams or made up shit, but based out of the argument that we have today, that are the most valid argument when it's come to OG origins. Any other OG theory was debunked. So if this one is a lie too, we need to debunked it, if its the truth than let's celebrate
It's a positive move for the community to get closer to the truth about their favorit strains history.
If TK buds were available in Florida in the late and early 90s, then there's a chance the 96 OG Kush is link to that. I remember BR said it was combo creation from Cali/Florida guys somehow...
Hopefully the guys will clear the smoke for us soon....
Thanks for your contribution Docta.
According to Matt, the death of the man that brought the OG in 1996 is a lie. I have another link in L.A that claim to have gotten the OG Kush cut from Matt crew in late 90s... Hopefully Todd will shine light on this.
