60/60 Forced Flowering Approach

[slowster5507]

SB just as jon stated you are one of my favorite posters here. im glad to see we enriched your life as much as you enrich ares, your informative threads pave the way to a successful thinker.I hope you stick around for me growing is a lifestyle as well as a hobby. plenty of us do this for a living (including myself). but back on track, your a great wheel turner for the brain keep it up man you got my vote for prez lol. i was waiting for this thread, i think i mentioned it to u on a thread somewhere, but this is awesome, your ideas and adaptations are incredible. i said it once and ill say it again alot of ppl our going to thank you for a successful outdoor this season. more than likely myself as well for i am a indoor grower doing my first outdoor this year and i have a few medioker spots and one huge spot (200 on 100 acres). just wanted to thank you in advance! your a great man my friend!




Peace, Slow

 

[marto]

Hi silverback, my scenario is sorta like your 60/60 method but a bit more confusing. Maybe you can help me figure it out. Let me explain. After my clones rooted i put them outside on march1. I figure the short days would be equal to the 12/12 of indoor. But they did not start flowering right away. Cold weather may have slowed it down. Took until about April 1 until the hairs started stacking up. Now I'm about one week into a 10-11week strain. That would put harvest at the shortest week of the year(mid june)which seems a bit strange. I'm worried that the plants are gonna be stunted very shortly and get trapped in the twilight zone between veg and flower and then be useless to me. Any thought. Assuming i do get some sort of harvest would it be wise to reveg for the summer season or replace with a clone or a seedling. Thank you sir.....hope this makes sense.

 

[Guest]

Thank you slowster. I get more than i give and some ideas are good and some not, but I post them up and let the discussion of guys like you wash it out. My thanks to everyone here. My questions and thoughs would be no more than murmerings in the dark if not for those like you that are researching, growing and thinking about all of the possiblilites and then responding with what you have learned. This site is so valuable to me because of the people it attracts.

Highontheprize. I didn't really answer your question. The answer is yes, you can do this from seed as well and it works the same. The only reason I didn't say that up front is because you can use up a lot of high priced seeds that way, but it will work with the exact same results but just a note, I think there is a bit more stretching observed when starting from seed. I only have one test grow that way and you may find something different, but thats what I found.

phrank, i didn't give a good stretching answer either, and its because there is so much to consider. For example, indoors or out, I believe you see more stetch the shorter or younger the seedling/clone is set into flower. For example, I believe if you flower a seedling, you will se a greater ratio of stretch than if you flower a 1' seedling. I believe a seedling will stretch more than a clone. And outdoor stretching for indicas and indica dominates is always much less outdoors than in.

Marto your observations on the short days of spring are accurate and would lead one to believe your approach would work. There is one factor that shuts it all down however and its the fact that the days are continuing to get longer, not shorter as the cannabis plant expects to see and you are trying to get the plant to behave in an exact opposite manner as it is programmed to behave = disappointment. The only possibilty I have discovered for overcomming that is the use of autofloweres. I have never been successful at getting a standard cannabis strain to flower naturally and continue to flower in the spring without it trying to reveg . I feel you have 2 realistic choices for your spring flowering plan.
1. Use autos
2. Set them in and out at night

 

[Jochsmokes]

silverback- haven't been into the genetics scene in like 8yrs and even then i had limited excperince, so my question-what stains are autoflowering and where can i get seeds? What is total growing time on yours? what i'm wondering is if i have time to get some and start them for this year?
Most anything i plant isn't in till june 1st so i have almost two months to get and veg them. One more question sorry! how do you keep a mother plant if its an auto? Sorry so many questions but i have the time to invest in some new strains and these sound like a good option for my area thanks JS

 

[Guest]

Hi Jochsmokes, Im sure not an expert on autos yet but I can answer your questions. Maybe someone that knows more can comment.

Its not too late at all in my view. One of the reasons I wrote this thread now is because now is the time to act if this is an approach you want to consider.

I dont believe a female autoflowerer can be kept as a mother. In fact, with my limited knowledge, i have concluded there is no successful cloning of autoflowerers. With this type of cannabis I believe the only grow option is to germinate the seeds and grow them out. Even lengthening the daylength doesnt' effect them as they will flower under 24 hrs of light.
You also have the differences in autoflowerers and photoperiod sensitive plants and they are different I think. Mr. Celcius has some expertise on this subject but I personally am still learning.

Total growing time: However many days the strain you pick takes to finish + the number of days you veg it before throwing it into 12/12. If the auto is a 60 day finisher, and you veg it for 30= 90 days total growing time.

Strains; This is my biggest weakness. Maybe others will make recommendations and Unleash Da Green is a good resource for info.

Manitoba Madness
Gorilla Gold cultivars
Stupersonic
Haleys Comet
Brendas SkunkX Nl
Dutch Treat X anything
and many others.
Some of these may not even be true autos. Some one with expertise list out some good auto strains.

 

[HempHut]

Hi Jochsmokes, Im sure not an expert on autos yet but I can answer your questions. Maybe someone that knows more can comment.

Its not too late at all in my view. One of the reasons I wrote this thread now is because now is the time to act if this is an approach you want to consider.

I dont believe a female autoflowerer can be kept as a mother. In fact, with my limited knowledge, i have concluded there is no successful cloning of autoflowerers. With this type of cannabis I believe the only grow option is to germinate the seeds and grow them out. Even lengthening the daylength doesnt' effect them as they will flower under 24 hrs of light.
You also have the differences in autoflowerers and photoperiod sensitive plants and they are different I think. Mr. Celcius has some expertise on this subject but I personally am still learning.

Total growing time: However many days the strain you pick takes to finish + the number of days you veg it before throwing it into 12/12. If the auto is a 60 day finisher, and you veg it for 30= 90 days total growing time.

Strains; This is my biggest weakness. Maybe others will make recommendations and Unleash Da Green is a good resource for info.

Manitoba Madness
Gorilla Gold cultivars
Stupersonic
Haleys Comet
Brendas SkunkX Nl
Dutch Treat X anything
and many others.
Some of these may not even be true autos. Some one with expertise list out some good auto strains.

Silverback, I've seen you mention twice now vegging an auto for a certain period of time before throwing into 12/12. The first time I thought you just made an error but you've mentioned it again. These must be overly photosensitive strains you're talking about and not "true" autos. Unless I've misunderstood something.

My understanding is an auto will flower regardless of photoperiod. For instance, the Lowryder varieties finish in 9 weeks from seed and begin to flower after about the third week of growth and flower for the remaining six weeks. So, total growing time seems pretty much fixed at 9 weeks since you can't veg. for a time period of your choosing.

As for strains, the obvious ones are the Lowryder varieties:

Lowryder
Lowryder #2
Diesel Ryder (new -- wish they had some femmed of this strain)

http://www.lowryder.co.uk/en

 

[Mr Celsius]

Auto AK
Auto White Russian
Auto Hindu Kush
Blue Streak
Masterlow
Powerstout
Auto C99
Auto Jack Herer
Auto Blueberry
LR#2
LR#1
Mossy's various genetics that he has in the works
Lowsnow
Mighty Mite (some will autoflower)
S_a_H is working on some strains of his own
Mdanzig is always making something new
Low Life seeds has a bunch
Breeder Brad has MM and hes also over at unleashdagreen.net
I'm sure I'm missing some.

Anyways, so SB, let me ask you a question:

I got some Sour D cuts that just rooted, if I started to flower them and then put em outside right now, they wouldn't reveg and I could harvest them 9 weeks later? I'm at 36 Lat.

I'm just thinking if people start earlier, then wont they be able to harvest sooner...

 

[seventynine]

Great informative thread silverback. I've got a couple questions though. I think I also live around 38 N so I believe I could start in early July, no?

We've got very hot, dry weather here in July, and I'm worried about water. I know these will be easier to hide, so perhaps I can keep them close enough to water them.

Do you find that plants like this consume less water since they have small root systems?

Do you have any experience with water polymers in this situation? I see that you use 2 gallon pots, would that be your recommendation? Do you ever plant straight in the ground? (Might be less water for me rather than more.)

 

[Jon]

Auto AK
Auto White Russian
Auto Hindu Kush
Blue Streak
Masterlow
Powerstout
Auto C99
Auto Jack Herer
Auto Blueberry
LR#2
LR#1
Mossy's various genetics that he has in the works
Lowsnow
Mighty Mite (some will autoflower)
S_a_H is working on some strains of his own
Mdanzig is always making something new
Low Life seeds has a bunch
Breeder Brad has MM and hes also over at unleashdagreen.net
I'm sure I'm missing some.

Anyways, so SB, let me ask you a question:

I got some Sour D cuts that just rooted, if I started to flower them and then put em outside right now, they wouldn't reveg and I could harvest them 9 weeks later? I'm at 36 Lat.

I'm just thinking if people start earlier, then wont they be able to harvest sooner...

I think the problem with putting them out right now, would be that they might not finish in time since the days are getting longer and not shorter. If they’ve been flowering for a month or so indoors, I think they would be alright. Last year (my first grow ever) I put a grand daddy purple outdoors April 11th (I remember the exact date because it was the very first day I ever went to a medical dispensary  ) and in late May it looked to be about 2-3 weeks away from finishing but then all of a sudden new growth came. One leaf. Three. Five. You get the point. So I removed the buds that were there and rolled it into a huge cigar. It was a really nice high energy high. In fact, I put an urkel clone out two weeks ago so I can have some premature bud this year.

Here's a pic of my re-vegging GDP.

 

[NPK]

got some Sour D cuts that just rooted, if I started to flower them and then put em outside right now, they wouldn't reveg and I could harvest them 9 weeks later?

Mr. C, I suspect you'll have a reveg issue if you put them out to flower right now. That happened to me last year--some plants I'd been flowering since early March started to reveg in early/mid May. However, you can get around this by using a light-proof structure outside. You could move your plants in and out every morning and evening, forcing a 12-hour photoperiod. I did that in my backyard all summer, pulling an additional two crops in the great outdoors. It worked great even though my structure wasn't perfectly light-proof. I'm going to do it again this year with a 10x12 tent (just $50 at Big Lots).

 

[Mr Celsius]

Alright, thats fine. I just wanted to see.

I'll stick to my load of auto seeds

No moving, no hassles, just stick and sit.

 

[NPK]

Yeah, SB's approach is damned attractive in that respect (in MANY respects! ). Schlepping plants in and out of a structure gets pretty old after awhile.

 

[tokinjoe]

Another great thread SB. Ima take a minute to give you props again my friend. You are definitely helping to keep this outdoor forum thriving as your threads inspire and are pretty much right in line with what a lot of us are doing. I'm loving this, bro. This is exactly how I'm going out this year with my second run. At first I was a bit disappointed with FMS as they aren't producing seeds until May. I LOVE their Grapefruit and have had a lot of success with it but thought May would be too late to buy and plant for this year until I considered vegging indoors and planting outdoors in Mid to late July. Can't wait, bro.

Lougrew, when it comes to growers who's harvests I'd LOVE to mirror, you Sir, are THE MAN!! I enjoy showing your grow thread to my buddies and watching them shit all over themselves when they see your backyard full of budding ladies. It never gets old to me.

 

[Guest]

Hi everyone.

HempHut, buddy I could be very wrong with a lot of what I beleive about auto type strains. Up until a couple of years ago, i thought these were gimmick strains and finally got smart enough to try one. I was wrong and now Im on the fast track to learning about them.

Hey Mr. C. Yeah they're going to try an reveg or at least mine have. The only kind that wont are these auto type strains as far as im concerned. At 36, you should be able to set out your forced clones out by the first of July without revegging. The days will be getting shorter by then. Try and see.

Seventynine, this results in a much smaller rootball, at least with an indica strain. I guess it could a little bigger with a sativa, they have much more stretch and take longer sometimes but I dont know.
Because the plant site is so much smaller, it is much easier to modify it for water retention. The pre-prepared planting pot i described earlier can have crystals added and then a bed of compost or absorbant material below the little pot to retain water. Water is requied where theres no rain. I havent had to water under normal conditions here but last year it was very dry for a long time and i had to water weekly for 5 weeks.

 

[Guest]

I hear you about lugging plants in and out NPK. This eliminates that crap.

Jon, youre right on track buddy, as long as the days are getting longer, its gonna be reveg city for anything other than these plants that will flower even under 24.

Hey tokinjoe. Thankyou for the compliments. Im anxious to get going to. In 30 days we'll all be in full tilt. You're right about Lourgrew!, hes pumping it out now.

 

[HempHut]

HempHut, buddy I could be very wrong with a lot of what I beleive about auto type strains. Up until a couple of years ago, i thought these were gimmick strains and finally got smart enough to try one. I was wrong and now Im on the fast track to learning about them.

Hehe, me too. I had the same thoughts when I first heard about them. I'll be trying some for the first time soon, so anything I know is just from research done to date and not practical application.

 

[Mr Celsius]

I got a PM to make some definitions, so here ya go:

Long day plant:

A long day plant is a plant that requires less than a certain number of hours of sunlight in each 24 hour period to induce flowering. Long day plants typically flower in the late spring or early summer Plants use the phytochrome system to sense daylength or photoperiod.

Short day plant:

A short day plant is a plant that cannot flower under the long days of summer. Short day plants typically flower in the fall of the year. These plants require a certain number of hours of darkness in each 24 hour period (a short daylength) before floral development can begin. Plants use the phytochrome system to sense daylength or photoperiod.

Day Neutral plant:

A day neutral plant does not require a specific day length to flower. It is neither a short day plant nor a long day plant.

Day neutral plants flower after attaining an overall developmental stage or age, or in response to alternative environmental stimuli, rather than in response to photoperiod.

Autoflower (true): A strain that has Russian Ruderalis in it that will flower under any light conditions. Russian Ruderalis was developed for hemp in the extreme north of Russia, so that during the 24 hour days, they could still grow hemp. Ruderalis has almost no THC and is the cause of common misconception that autoflower aren't potent. The autoflowering gene is recessive, so all strains are heavily inbred; thankfully the potency has also come along with the breeding.

Extreme Photo Sensitive: These are often confused with or called autoflowers, mostly because of the breeders real lack of knowledge. Photo Sensitive plants will flower under a certain amount of light. There is no definition, but some will flower under 23 hours of light and not 24, whereas you may see some that flower under 16 hours of light. If you look at Reibsi's "Auto" Affy, you'll see that his strain flowers under 20 hours of light, so he keep them under 24 hours of light and then throws them outside when he's ready to flower them.

Guerrilla Gold is a very popular photo sensitive strain. It has Mighty Mite which has a lot of speculation behind it. The belief is that it was some sort of Ruderalis that was crossed with another breed and then farmers on the Vancouver Islands noticed that some would flower early on (recessive autoflower gene) and others would just finish early (yet again another recessive gene). So instead of breeding the autoflower recessive gene, they started to inbreed the early gene to get something that was more Photo Sensitive. Some also keep the autoflowering mighty mite and are still working with it to this day.

I hope this will clarify some information and if anything was muddled, just ask.

 

[Guest]

Thanks Mr. C. It certainly helped me. It seems like the term "autoflower" is used in a generic sense by growers and breeders to describe any quick flowering strain but i knew there was a real difference. When I grew out Brendas skunk, some of the plants finished very early and some just finished early.

 

[HempHut]

Thanks for that summation.

Silverback's comments now make sense regarding the use of AF's (extreme photosensitive) in this setup.

A true AF wouldn't benefit from the system, but I can definitely see how extreme photosensitive strains could be kick started and then continue flowering outside in mid summer.

 

[phrank]

2 cents worth...

2 cents worth...

Over the years, I have noticed that most of the early outdoor strains are very difficult to reveg - even indoors under 24 hours of halide lighting. I may try this with the Guerilla Golds, as I've got plenty to play with...

phrank