5Lbs/1Kw Challenge-The Quest for 80 Zips with Galactic Grape

[Incognegro]

I think when it comes to vertical growing your hearing allot of myths in yields most commercial grow op's will run some vert lights again they place them according to shaded places when you think about it for a second you place a 1000 watt light with out reflector it loses it lumens and radiant heat faster as it goes out in all directions so in reality having a plant lets say 2 feet from that vert bulb your not getting the lumens that you think you are
Now with a reflector your getting direct from both sides of the bulb reflecting full power to the plants many will say well i get my plants closer , then i say there is no need a 24 " i am giving my plants full luminious that that 1000 watt will put out , yea you see in vert stretchy plants tied up so they won't fall over stems week etc
So pretty much saying what ever works for you go for it Right

I'm not here to argue with anyone, so please don't take the following statements as such:

Vert growing is a rather more efficient way of utilizing the light source with a 360* radial output, with plants encompassing that 360* vs going hori, which only utilizes 180*. With that being said, lets do the math of your grow area..say your space is a 4x4 under a single hori 1000; you've got 16sqft of grow area to utilize. VS, if you were to take that same 1000 and turn it sideways, and place plants on a vertical plane instead you just multiplied your growing space exponentially.

Here's a perfect diagram.

Myself though, I don't grow in a circular pattern, I grow on the 4 walls, my vert is cubical, instead of spherical.

I'm using a small fan to blow the radiant heat from off the bulb, and that air gets sucked into the adjoining room which is on an opposite light schedule, the CO2 released at night from 1 room supplies the adjacent room while the lights are on.

Also cooling the rooms via a/c... not hard to put together and way more efficient..... I will say though, vert growing does seem to stress some strains out... or at least seem to become more fickle..may be just my observation though...

Holla

 

[Incognegro]

Also DrFever, I saw your thread with your buckets...impressive...if you turned your grow sideways!! The possibilities my man....

 

[aerokrafter]

Day 21 Bloom Update


Unit:


Edge:


Growth Tip:


Budlet:


Data:



After I put the HPS in, the plants went Boom! The fan leaves got larger and the middle of the grow has pretty much caught up - its going to be fine.

I only have a couple days of stretch left. No criss cross tops! YAY!

I must say the plants look very different from the 14 day MH start. I'm looking forward to the next week to see if they start looking more "HPSy". The growth explosion is certainly coming at the perfect time.

They have been nute hogs - slurping down large gulps.

I'm leaving the prune level as it stands, tho I'm continuing to pinch.


As always, your comments and questions are welcome.

-AK

 

[aerokrafter]

Growth Review


Day 1:


Day 7:


Day 14:


Day 21:


Notice how between day 14 and day 21 the chairs disappeared?

Looks like only one more level of trellis will be needed to support colas.


-AK

 

[Incognegro]

Lol


Looking good man!

 

[Mister_D]

As long as you guys are finding it productive - I don't mind. I think vert has the easiest and most likely road to 5 lbs.

One of the goals of this thread was for others to pick up the torch and try to pull this off. I'd love to see many different attempts using different methods. I'd want them to share as much detail and data as possible, share failures along with successes. I'd absolutely love it if they would lead others in an attempt to replicate their results - ala the rookie aeroflo grow together thread.

I came here first to learn. I'm just trying by example to point out how much we can accomplish together, despite the haters. I'm willing and have shared a ton of information that took a good deal of effort to accumulate and communicate.

I'm looking for like minded individuals to do similar things. Not because I want to compete with them, but rather to learn.

Haters will hate. Middle east is on fire from the same neural pathways in the brain that trolls use.

All I can do is hoe my row.


Sorry, didn't mean to make this sound like a rant. My asbestos underwear chafes from time to time.

-AK

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to aerokrafter again"

Aero I personally would like to thank you for all the things you have shared and will share. You deserve massive respect for the rookie aeroflo thread, and for the effort you put into all of your other threads. The members that are willing to go the extra mile to explain the small details that make a grow truly productive, are the ones that make this site great. I wouldn't be the grower I am today without the help of many who freely shared their secrets to success. Now I'm just trying to pay it forward. I see alot of people in this thread that immediately look at 5lbs per 1k and shut down. As I said before, and you have reiterated several times. It's not about the end result, but what you learned on the journey to get there. It's kind of like understanding vert growing. Some get it, most don't...

 

[roll it large]

loking great ak

so would you say that the mh has helped reduce stretch with no downsides

thanks for sharing

peace

 

[Rouge]

I was so rooting for ya aero but ya didn't hit the 5lbs mark and ya doing the same thing again! Ya know the saying: those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it or doing the same thing and expecting a different result is stupid. 3/5 or 60% is about a C average. That oughta motivate some revolutionary changes. For eg. you need to listen to the vertical crew and go ballistic on ya girls- another level of plants. Either that or just teach what Ya already know and quit aiming so high when ya haven't brung anything new to the ballgame. You passed but ya didn't hit it outa the ballpark fella! OK, who's next up at bat?

 

[DrFever]

I'm not here to argue with anyone, so please don't take the following statements as such:

Vert growing is a rather more efficient way of utilizing the light source with a 360* radial output, with plants encompassing that 360* vs going hori, which only utilizes 180*. With that being said, lets do the math of your grow area..say your space is a 4x4 under a single hori 1000; you've got 16sqft of grow area to utilize. VS, if you were to take that same 1000 and turn it sideways, and place plants on a vertical plane instead you just multiplied your growing space exponentially.

Here's a perfect diagram.

View Image

Myself though, I don't grow in a circular pattern, I grow on the 4 walls, my vert is cubical, instead of spherical.

I'm using a small fan to blow the radiant heat from off the bulb, and that air gets sucked into the adjoining room which is on an opposite light schedule, the CO2 released at night from 1 room supplies the adjacent room while the lights are on.

Also cooling the rooms via a/c... not hard to put together and way more efficient..... I will say though, vert growing does seem to stress some strains out... or at least seem to become more fickle..may be just my observation though...

Holla

Edit from another post

that diagram about vert having 135% more growing space doesnt mention that the surface area of the canopy will diminish as the plant grows towards the light whearas a horizontal your canopy size stays the same.

also diffuse light from a reflector is better used and better penetrates the canopy because it doesnt come from a point source.

most vert growers would struggle to beat the gpw yields i achieve in horizontal scrog.

but at the end if the day what matters is that you find the method that works best for you and try to make the most of it in your situation.

8 x 8 room = 64 Sq feet 1000 watts divide by 64 = 15.625 watts per Sq foot
150 Sq foot room 1000 watts divide by 150 = 6.66 watts per Sq foot

 

[aerokrafter]

Day 28 Bloom Update


Unit:


Edge:


Canopy:


Bud:


Data:



Stretch has stopped and the canopy still has a bit more dish than I like. The middle will still perform very well I think, but a few inches higher would have been better.

In the canopy shot you can see I have a lot of head room left to develope these buds. I absolutely love the Raptor 6 reflector. My edge rows have never looked better. The light doesn't keep a "heat bubble" like my smaller reflectors. It's just a shame that air cooling the light is impractical in my situation. I'm retrofitting all of my units with this hood.

These plants are hogs. They are slopping down the nutes. I suspended foliar sprays for a short time to let the bud layer develope a bit. I just resumed sprays today - but they will be of the "bottom blast" variety. Only spraying the leaf layer below, while leaving the bud layer above dry.

I expect to put the second level trellis in shortly. I'm waiting on a bit more bud developement and letting the stalks sway in the breeze to strengthen up for their trials ahead.

-----

The MH first 14 days experiment has been interesting. Results are far from in, but here are my preliminary results:

The plants stayed shorter. For this plant is was about 8 -10 inches total less stretch.

Stretch seemed disproportionate to starting size. The smaller plants going in, stretched at a slower rate than larger plants. Under an HPS all the clones stretch at a simular rate. This little bit of knowledge will be helpful in planning future canopy setups.

Leaf elongation was retarded. Once the HPS went in, the leaves got their large "adult" size and shape.

Bud developement was slowed. The bud shot above looks more like a 21 day bud than the 28 days it is. The overall aggressiveness of the flowering seems the same. Another week should show us the story on this issue.


As always, your comments and questions are welcome.

-AK

 

[ekomsi]

You have great experiments keep up the great work aero

 

[Incognegro]

Edit from another post

that diagram about vert having 135% more growing space doesnt mention that the surface area of the canopy will diminish as the plant grows towards the light whearas a horizontal your canopy size stays the same.

also diffuse light from a reflector is better used and better penetrates the canopy because it doesnt come from a point source.

most vert growers would struggle to beat the gpw yields i achieve in horizontal scrog.

but at the end if the day what matters is that you find the method that works best for you and try to make the most of it in your situation.

8 x 8 room = 64 Sq feet 1000 watts divide by 64 = 15.625 watts per Sq foot
150 Sq foot room 1000 watts divide by 150 = 6.66 watts per Sq foot

Your math isn't accurate... didn't say it wasn't correct, just not accurate.

You're not growing in a 150sqft room... the ROOM IS STILL 8X8 (64sqft)
the GROW AREA IS 150sqft.
So in theory you're still getting the 15.625wpsft but instead of on 1 plane of 8X8, you're getting 15.625wpsqft on a 360* plane. If you by the diagram, and go 8ftV by 18.84H (6x3.14) you'll get 150.72sqft of grow space, but i believe in reality is 75.36sqft [18.84ft X 4ft (4ft footprint on walls instead of 8)].


If you want to get technical a 1000 is depicted as a 4x4 footprint, so in a horizontal grow your get 16sqft of grow area... But now if you turned that vertical and went cylindrical your grow space is now 75.36sqft, [6ft diameter X 3.14 (pie) X 4ft light footprint] =75.36sqft. But as i said in my case, my grow area is actually 112sqft, [3walls X [16 (4x4 footprint) + 1 half wall at 2x4 (8sqft)] = 3X16+8=56. 56sqft of grow area compared to 16sqft. 3.5times more room...

Granted the surface will "diminish" if that's the term you want to use, but by how much? Depends on your training and pruning ability. In a circular grow much more that a coliseum, or vertical wall, but nonetheless the amount of area you have to grow in a given space is dramatically increased, that's the purpose of vertical growing.

Plus...there are SOOO...many posts about how reflectors actually mess with light spread, wavelength etc...but i'm not gonna get into that.

But you said it best...it's whatever suits you... Horizontal, hands down is EASIER to do and maintain... but from what i see...if you want to maximize you grow space for yield, thenvert is the way to grow!

 

[E.CoastCannabis]

That's a nice cut man

 

[Scottish Research]

Bickering about vertical methods? Can we please try and stay on topic?

Really nice looking plants AK. I'm glad that new reflector is working well for you.

R.Fortune

 

[silver hawaiian]

 

[aerokrafter]

Day 35 Bloom Update


Unit:


Edge Row:


Bud Tip:


Bud:


Data:



To my eye, these still look a little behind schedule. I've put off heavy leaf picking of the bud zone because of this. In the next couple days tho, lotta leaves are coming out.

Starting to get a sweet grape aroma.

We are at the half way point and chunking up is now the goal.


As always, your comments and questions are welcome.

-AK

 

[Scottish Research]

AK,

I was just thinking that with your improved light distribution you might be able to increase your growing space and yield by doing a screen of green instead of a trellis.

The screen could be set up with yo yo style light hangers and height adjusted with ease.

Have you thought about doing this before? I'm sure that you have mentioned a reason for not doing scrog but I may have missed it.

Thanks!

R.Fortune

 

[Mister_D]

"You must spread some rep before giving it to robert fortune again" blah blah blah......

Really good idea using those yo yo's for an adjustable scrog screen K+ buddy

 

[lemonskunk420]

What he said.Great idea man.

 

[medicalmj]

One thing I see missing, which should increase yields are reflective panels.

I use portable/movable reflective panels made from 4x8 sheets of 1/2" (pink or blue) foam insulation covered with mylar. These panels have chains attached to the top. Place J hooks on ceiling around perimeter of space. These panels can then be removed for access and adjusted vertically. The J hooks can be placed at diff spacing as well to keep panels as close to plants as possible. Since the mylar wont blow around fans can be directed beneath or between panels.

This will provide up to 30% more light, which will either allow for a bigger grow space oer more intense light on the periphary.