40 amp breaker poping with only 25/30 amps of current??

[JamesChong]

Never heard of them, but will check them out.
Thanks,
BG

 

[cocktail frank]

this whole thread makes me LOL.
everything i said in my first post is still gold and true.
i am a licensed electrician and been doing this shit since '95.

as far a correction factors for temp, you have to go w/ the lowest temp rating of w/e you used to wire the grow.
wether it be the temp rating of the wire, or the breaker.
yes, they all have temp ratings right on them, they are thewre for a reason.

as far as the sub coming out of another sub, not a great idea.
subs should only come out of main panels, as good practice.
if i read it correctly, you have a 60a sub coming from the main, then a 40a sub coming from the 60a sub?
wow, not cool.

DH, you can waste your money replacing the breaker if you please.
dont heed the advice you have been given.
00420 seems to know what he is talking about.
pharma can has given sound advice in the past around this forum, id listen to him too.
luciano seems to be up and coming.

maybe if your lucky, you could actually purchase a defective breaker as a replacement.
then, just maybe, it wont trip , LIKE IT SHOULD W/ UR SETUP, then a fire will erupt.
you obviously want to do whatever you want to do, so good luck w/ it.

this is why i dont chime in on electrical questions like i used too.
nobody listens and ive typed all this info over and over all over this subforum.
i even started a electrical safety thread to help folks out.
i advise you thumb thru it. this goes for everybody.
nothing lands you in jail faster than an electrical fire in yer grow.

 

[luciano28]

great photo of 310-16 in the thread Frank has hyperlinked in his post, looks like from a different year code book than I have(1999) but its the same world famous table.

 

[clowntown]

Excellent advice and words of wisdom, cocktail frank.

Thanks for all your help & advice, and answering all the annoying noob questions in wiring up my grow. Even if otherwise thankless, that electrical safety thread has helped avoid turning many stoners into crispy stoners... or land them in jail.

 

[PharmaCan]

pharma can has given sound advice in the past around this forum, id listen to him too.

Thank you, Frank! But when it comes to electrical, you the man!

The reason I posted what I did, with the math and all, is because I didn't understand what was being said about the load capacity of the breaker. Since that was the original question, it seemed like it should be answered first. I wasn't even paying attention to the wire size and sub-panel stuff because you seem to have had it handled.

Memory loss sucks! After that surgery I moved back to Huntington Beach, where I had lived for 15 years, and I couldn't remember which streets ran north/south and which ran east/west. People would come up and start talking to me like we are old friends and I wouldn't have the vaguest idea who they were.

Oh well, life goes on.

PC

 

[00420]

Even an armored 10/2 flexible metal cable w/ standard insulation on the ground wire is not up to code for a 220/240v outlet, or just the 10/2 Romex without real insulation on the ground?

If not up to code for both NM and flex. metal, what is the reasoning behind this? In other words, what could possibly go wrong by using 10/2 for 220/240v? Both in a typical / practical scenario, and also in theoretical / rare situations? What is a 10/2 NM (without insulated ground) typically used for, that is up-to-code?

[Apologies for the extreme noobishness; just a few weeks ago I didn't even have the slightest clue on what exactly a 220/240v involved... didn't know that it was two hot legs, didn't know diddly squat.]

i really dont know dude.... im by far no licensed electrician.... as i said.
i got a fine for not using 10/3 on a outlet that was 240/220 i was using 10/2
heres what wiki say's
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/If_you_wa...n_how_should_you_tie_this_into_your_sub_panel

again on that cap controller if its rated for 40 amps then its going to have #8 wire needed to supply it and a 40 amp breaker.... if your only running 4 600 at one time then a 30amp breaker will work and plug it into the dryer plug just make sure your breaker is rated for your wire ..

CF your right bro...

 

[JamesChong]

I got it worked out 00420. Thanks for the help and sorry for the stress, lolol. Just going to run a new line and breaker. This way I know it will be right and I will pay someone to do it. I'll get it done before I move in and all. Then I know I won't have to worry about a fire. Thanks again all and sorry for the stress.
Take care,
BG

 

[cocktail frank]

ct,
musta missed that one.
any 2 wire is fine for a 240v outlet.
all u need is 2 hots and a ground for 240v
if you wanted a 120/240v plug, then the extra wire for the neutral is necessary.

to be honest, if you are running armrored clad wire or bx, then just a 2 wire is necessary.
the metal casing on the wire is good for a ground, as long as it is secured with approved connecters at the panel and a METAL box that has the receptacle in it.
me personally, if im running metal wire, i run MC.
MC has the grounding wire inside of it.
i find it safer, im not a fan of steel BX.
the extra ground wire in the mc is good because if the metal casing on the bx is split somewhere by accident, you lose the ground.

 

[Whatever]

Oh and with the correction factors I totally agree with you guys 00420 and Whatever, I was overthinking it a bit because the wire in a grow room is never gonna be huge enough to require a larger gauge wire because of the heat, now in our furnace room where we have busses and 1/0 wire running and it gets up to 120 degrees on a hot summer day its different and heat make a much bigger difference to the amperage rating. Not so much on relatively small wire like 10 and 8 gauge wire.

I get high too much, lol.

LOL...I thought that was good info and definitely another piece of the puzzle. What that brought up for me was a probably bigger issue is when people do longer runs of wire and don't maybe kick up to the next gauge.

The question then becomes, for me, do you use more electricity as registered on your meter if your grow space is say 200' from the meter as opposed to 20' due to the length or run, even if using the 'correct' gauge wire due to resistance loss in the wire? If so, even if small, I'm guessing the larger the amount of elec used (pulling through that wire) the loss would go up somewhat exponentially?

 

[cocktail frank]

whatever, you do have to take derating into consideration for voltage drop.
google derating and read the def on it.

 

[zoolander]

I have nothing to add but thank God I can grow because a few of you in this thread can grow and are great at helping people with your knowledge on the electrical and I just wanted to give props to ya . I forgot to add I suck at buildin anything .

 

[paulobaca]

Im w/zoo. Finally moving into a house so now I can move past 400's. This was very helpful. Thanks all.

 

[green_grow]

thanks for that link, cock (may i call you "cock" ?) . i added it to my subscriptions so that i can refer to it when i need to.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

this whole thread makes me LOL.
everything i said in my first post is still gold and true.
i am a licensed electrician and been doing this shit since '95.

as far a correction factors for temp, you have to go w/ the lowest temp rating of w/e you used to wire the grow.
wether it be the temp rating of the wire, or the breaker.
yes, they all have temp ratings right on them, they are thewre for a reason.

as far as the sub coming out of another sub, not a great idea.
subs should only come out of main panels, as good practice.
if i read it correctly, you have a 60a sub coming from the main, then a 40a sub coming from the 60a sub?
wow, not cool.

DH, you can waste your money replacing the breaker if you please.
dont heed the advice you have been given.
00420 seems to know what he is talking about.
pharma can has given sound advice in the past around this forum, id listen to him too.
luciano seems to be up and coming.

maybe if your lucky, you could actually purchase a defective breaker as a replacement.
then, just maybe, it wont trip , LIKE IT SHOULD W/ UR SETUP, then a fire will erupt.
you obviously want to do whatever you want to do, so good luck w/ it.

this is why i dont chime in on electrical questions like i used too.
nobody listens and ive typed all this info over and over all over this subforum.
i even started a electrical safety thread to help folks out.
i advise you thumb thru it. this goes for everybody.
nothing lands you in jail faster than an electrical fire in yer grow.

i was told by one of my friends who IS a certified electrician, that running sub->sub is standard, and aslong as everything is GUAGED properly then there is no issues. thats what im trying to figure out, you know how plans change of anyone here right?
its a 80/80 breaker on the main to sub1
and will be a 60/60 breaker from panel1->panel2
...

JamesChong-does that unit need to be hard-wired to a breaker? i.e. theres no plug on it. im picking mine up on monday.

clowntown- im sticking with cap so everything matches, ill spend a few extra dollars.


00420- if i have people up in here to investigatin my 'code' problems i think im going to have other problems....

 

[JamesChong]

Hey DiggitalHippy,

These unit call for hard wiring into a panel, "But" and I say but. Depending on the unit you get. One, I think the 4 lamp unit. Is a 30 amp unit and you can install a dryer cord and plug into a dryer outlet. That's if you have one that your not using. That's what I'm thinking about doing. The other unit, being the 8 light unit. It is a 40 amp unit. If you have a spare or unused 50 amp ranger outlet. You could install a 50 amp range cord to the unit and use it, but I would change out the 50 amp breaker with a smaller 40 amp break. Not to over load the CAP unit.

I'm buying the 8 light unit with dual trips next month. I'm going to run 2 4x8 growboxes with either 2400 HPS or 1800HPS per a unit and run half during the day and the other half at night. So, I'll only be running half the load on the unit. Trying not to run all 3600-4800 watts at one time. I'm also going to run a brand new line to the box to be save also. I don't want to have any fires at all and know the wiring and breaker is right.

Good luck with your unit. Make sure to share the install pictures with us.
Later,
BG

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

Hey DiggitalHippy,

These unit call for hard wiring into a panel, "But" and I say but. Depending on the unit you get. One, I think the 4 lamp unit. Is a 30 amp unit and you can install a dryer cord and plug into a dryer outlet. That's if you have one that your not using. That's what I'm thinking about doing. The other unit, being the 8 light unit. It is a 40 amp unit. If you have a spare or unused 50 amp ranger outlet. You could install a 50 amp range cord to the unit and use it, but I would change out the 50 amp breaker with a smaller 40 amp break. Not to over load the CAP unit.

I'm buying the 8 light unit with dual trips next month. I'm going to run 2 4x8 growboxes with either 2400 HPS or 1800HPS per a unit and run half during the day and the other half at night. So, I'll only be running half the load on the unit. Trying not to run all 3600-4800 watts at one time. I'm also going to run a brand new line to the box to be save also. I don't want to have any fires at all and know the wiring and breaker is right.

Good luck with your unit. Make sure to share the install pictures with us.
Later,
BG

ill have it on here monday..
im going to hardwire it to my 40A i apperently have to put in this sub.[thanks guys!] here is there PDF instruction manual, the hard-wire looks easy.
http://www.hydrofarm.com/docs/15465_MLC-8D&8DaInstructions.pdf
mainly want to be able to flip/flop the lights at the crop end ..save some power.

...lol range plug?... ive got roomates im not growing in the kitchen!

 

[00420]

its a 80/80 breaker on the main to sub1
and will be a 60/60 breaker from panel1->panel2
...

00420- if i have people up in here to investigatin my 'code' problems i think im going to have other problems....

80% of 80 = 64
80% of 60 = 48

that leave's you 16amp's on sub 1 if 80% is used on sub 2

you all so said you had #6wire on sub 1 from main witch is a 65 amp max ( i would not go over 60) and now your saying it's a 80/80 breaker on that line.....

be careful here DH

2 line's 64 amp's each line
-30 for light's (6k)
line 1 64-30=34
line 2 64-30=34

-15 for a/c (120v)
-9 for dehu (120v)
line 1 34-15=19
line 2 34-9=25

if your truly running #6 on sub 1 that would be 16 amp's less to my math
line 1 19-16=3
line 2 25-16=9

i know your running fans pumps veg/clone light's ect....... most fans are .7-3 amp's

"code problems" are just prob's on top of prob's

 

[cocktail frank]

i thought DH said 6 awg wire feeding the first sub too.
didnt look back tho.
thats why i said 60a for sub #1 and 40a for sub #2.
this is why it isnt good practice for running subs out of existing subs.
its just asking for problems.
80 amp breaker on 6 wire is a def no-go.
highest breaker allowed on 6 would be 60a.
your drawing almost 30a alone on lights.
that leaves you 18 amps total left for both subs safely.
i would advise you to rethink what you have done.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

80% of 80 = 64
80% of 60 = 48

that leave's you 16amp's on sub 1 if 80% is used on sub 2

you all so said you had #6wire on sub 1 from main witch is a 65 amp max ( i would not go over 60) and now your saying it's a 80/80 breaker on that line.....

be careful here DH

2 line's 64 amp's each line
-30 for light's (6k)
line 1 64-30=34
line 2 64-30=34

-15 for a/c (120v)
-9 for dehu (120v)
line 1 34-15=19
line 2 34-9=25

if your truly running #6 on sub 1 that would be 16 amp's less to my math
line 1 19-16=3
line 2 25-16=9

i know your running fans pumps veg/clone light's ect....... most fans are .7-3 amp's

"code problems" are just prob's on top of prob's

on sub 1 im running 1 digital 600W and one 535W 5kbtu a/c 2 fans. 3x 4' floro strips and a light mover.about 1400W by my math. im not pulling much in room1, just trying to isolate my electrical from the house.

im not looking for problems just help.
thanks 00420.

*edit; should i replace that #8 drop with more #6? its only 20 ft... worth the 70$...

 

[PharmaCan]

"code problems" are just prob's on top of prob's

This is a good point. Not because of building inspectors or code enforcement officers, but because codes exist for a reason, which is to make sure that your installation is safe. Codes don't set maximum or even necessarily optimum standards. They usually set minimum standards.

PC