40 amp breaker poping with only 25/30 amps of current??

[luciano28]

Oh and with the correction factors I totally agree with you guys 00420 and Whatever, I was overthinking it a bit because the wire in a grow room is never gonna be huge enough to require a larger gauge wire because of the heat, now in our furnace room where we have busses and 1/0 wire running and it gets up to 120 degrees on a hot summer day its different and heat make a much bigger difference to the amperage rating. Not so much on relatively small wire like 10 and 8 gauge wire.

I get high too much, lol.

 

[Guest]

luciano28 is right on the $
the 3 wire you seen how many where bare? ( the self grounding witch ='s 4 )

I mean to say the self grounding receptacles have 3 contacts.

Insulation = good

 

[PharmaCan]

I didnt think I was being a smart ass but Ok. I think if you read your own post a few times you will see the answer. He has 20 amps at 240 and 40 amps at 120 right? What is he using? He isnt using 120 and he didnt remove the clip and why would you do that to begin with?

Well because I stated that I have missing memory and that there may be flaws in what I was saying. If I was wrong, a simple explanation would have been more appropriate than " it says 20 on it for a reason".

PeaCe

 

[00420]

DH - If what I am saying is correct, I think you've probably got a defective breaker.

if what your saying is tru "defective breaker" i will give up growing and send you all my gear. there's NO way 5000watts will run on a 2 pole 20 amp breaker

ohm's law say what again?
amp x volt = watt's
20a x 240v = 4800w

& thats at 100%
at 80% it would be 3840w
but i really doubt he is getting 240v its more like 220v
20a x 220v = 4400w
again @ a safe 80% your looking at 3520

and by the way 1khps ballast runs 1100 watts......so 5500 is ok on a breaker thats rated for 3520 i think not

 

[CDM]

whatever you do, just dont put a higher breaker than your wire is rated for.. you will burn your house down if the breaker does not trip before the wire fails, if you have a problem

 

[luciano28]

Well because I stated that I have missing memory and that there may be flaws in what I was saying. If I was wrong, a simple explanation would have been more appropriate than " it says 20 on it for a reason".

PeaCe

Im sorry buddy if I offended you and this is why I try to stay out the electrical advice threads, they always seem to get heated. I edited it and explained it in all Caps(admittedly being a smart ass that time, I will go re-edit). You actually said everything right and had the Math down just had the theory a little amiss.

 

[00420]

whatever you do, just dont put a higher breaker than your wire is rated for.. you will burn your house down if the breaker does not trip before the wire fails, if you have a problem

very good advice and this is why i pulled my first idea out or running a 40 amp line with 2 #10 wire's and said to add a 2nd 2pole 20 amp & split the lines....

my bad on that 40 amp breaker

 

[PharmaCan]

if what your saying is tru "defective breaker" i will give up growing and send you all my gear. there's NO way 5000watts will run on a 2 pole 20 amp breaker

ohm's law say what again?
amp x volt = watt's
20a x 240v = 4800w

& thats at 100%
at 80% it would be 3840w
but i really doubt he is getting 240v its more like 220v
20a x 220v = 4400w
again @ a safe 80% your looking at 3520

and by the way 1khps ballast runs 1100 watts......so 5500 is ok on a breaker thats rated for 3520 i think not

Jeez, dude, learn to read. Everything I said was qualified several times with the warning that I could very possibly be wrong.

The confusion in my mind was that a double 20 amp = 40 amp which I see now is wrong. No need to be an asshole about a simple mistake, particularly when I pointed out in advance that it could be a mistake.

I posted what I did because I've been following this thread and it has been confusing me, which it shouldn't. Pray you never have any infirmities, you couldn't handle the stress.

PC

 

[PharmaCan]

Im sorry buddy if I offended you and this is why I try to stay out the electrical advice threads, they always seem to get heated. I edited it and explained it in all Caps(admittedly being a smart ass that time, I will go re-edit). You actually said everything right and had the Math down just had the theory a little amiss.

Thank you, I'll do the same.

PC

 

[luciano28]

whatever you do, just dont put a higher breaker than your wire is rated for.. you will burn your house down if the breaker does not trip before the wire fails, if you have a problem

Yes great advice, probably the most important thing for the novice/DIY electrical worker besides turning the power off first, lol.

This is why I said that Table 310-16 of the code book is the single most important thing in that book(the most boring book on the face of the planet I might add, the hospital section is just lovely), I wish I had a better digicam so I could take a nice photo of the whole page. It took me 5 tries to get a decent shot of the little part I took a photo of.

 

[00420]

Pray you never have any infirmities, you couldn't handle the stress.

but it sounds pretty ridiculous to me.

asshole

learn to read.

thx for the good word's..... can you point out 1 time when i said anything that was rude to you

i was just pointing out that your math was wrong....
i would hate to see someone take that info and run with it like DH did when he first did his research thats the whole reason we have this thread good thing it's not a thread that say's "my house is on fire"

 

[BonsaiBud]

The capacitor is like the butt-plug of the AC current world. When a digital ballast kicks on it draws a massive surge to fill those suckers up.

Now if you have any inductive loads...then you have power factor issues. All fine and good until your 10 degree-out-of-phase load slams into main panel. It makes my little 15A safety breaker (AFCI) buzz just a little bit even though I am at like 20% rated power.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

yes it is..... that slipped my mind and was thinking 2 #10's would work but not be to code....

DH get a 2nd double 20amp for that light..... and run it as 3 on each....
once you do your going to have to change that main to a 60 what size wire do you have running that sub? i hope #6

#6 to my first sub, then #8 to the second sub. dam, i need to return this double40 zinsco main breaker i got its a double40 ill get a double 60.. i have 6 1K ballasts i was hoping to use would the double 40 be the right breaker?
#10 on the 30A 120V a/c line and #10 on the 220V lights line. and its 10/2 on the #10 lines because i dont need 10/3 the price is higher and the last wire is unused anyway. my main lines #6 and #8 are both /3 with #10 ground.

JamesChong- thats the same cap controller i have on order...

00420- do you think i should upgrade my 240/220v plug with #8 to run 5 or 6K with? it on #10 now.
thanks.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

DH one other thing i just noticed your using 10/2 not 10/3
10/3 is round you have flat that mean's your common is a bare wire thats not really a good idea my friend you have short run's and it would be really easy to fix cheap...

wait, ive been using the correct wire...???
120V = white,neutral black,hot and bare,ground.
220v = white,hot black, hot bare, ground.

whats the 10/3 for? my plugs are only 3 prong plugs. not running any dryers...

 

[clowntown]

I believe white is hot and black is neutral, on a 120v. Bare or green = ground.

I'm wrong. Corrected by Stay Puft (thanks!):

On 120V systems, Line is Black, Neutral is white (or blue), Gnd is Green.

The 10/3 has 4 physical wires (3 conducting wires, hence the /3) and is round as 00420 described (on a nonmetal (NM) cable such as Romex), with black, white, red, and ground. Typically bare wrapped with paper on a Romex, or standard green insulation on a flexible armored cable.

The 10/3 is for ... I believe it's called 2-phase (correct me if I'm wrong) power,

the term 2-phase is not correct. It is technically Single (1) Phase 220V.

typically used for devices w/ 4 prongs running both 240v and 120v... such as a dryer that uses 240v for heating, and 120v for things like the buzzer, and possibly the drum motor. It can also be used to create both 240v and 120v receptacles (for the 120v, use the neutral and one hot leg + ground if applicable) only running 1 line off of the 240v breaker, rather than two separate ones.

I'm using a 10/2 flexible armored cable run from my panel into the basement; in hindsight, I should have purchased 10/3 instead and saved a little bit of money on this installation... since I ended up having to get a length of 12/2 (probably could have easily been a 14AWG) to run back to install a 120v outlet. Trying to save a few bucks up front ended up costing me quite a bit more in the end; as usual, clowntown style... nothing new here.

 

[00420]

#6 to my first sub, then #8 to the second sub. dam, i need to return this double40 zinsco main breaker i got its a double40 ill get a double 60.. i have 6 1K ballasts i was hoping to use would the double 40 be the right breaker?
#10 on the 30A 120V a/c line and #10 on the 220V lights line. and its 10/2 on the #10 lines because i dont need 10/3 the price is higher and the last wire is unused anyway. my main lines #6 and #8 are both /3 with #10 ground.

JamesChong- thats the same cap controller i have on order...

00420- do you think i should upgrade my 240/220v plug with #8 to run 5 or 6K with? it on #10 now.
thanks.

#6 to sub 1
#8 to sub 2

i missed this part i only seen one sub in the pic

this is how it should be

#6 sub 60 amp breaker
#8 sub 40 amp breaker

#10 line 30 amp breaker ( 4k max )
or
#10 line 20 amp breaker ( 3k max )


the reason for 10/3 is Insulation on the 3 used wire even if your not using the 4th ( bare ) or you can do what clowentown said and get flexible armored cable 10/3 ( no bare wire )

no don't run #8 to your plug's just use 2 double 20 breakers and wire #10 3k on each line...

if you plan on adding more (8K) later then use 2 double 30amp's ...

like i told chong i dont know if that cap controller use's #8/6 (40/50amp) or double #10 (30+30)

 

[00420]

wait, ive been using the correct wire...???
120V = white,neutral black,hot and bare,ground.
220v = white,hot black, hot bare, ground.

whats the 10/3 for? my plugs are only 3 prong plugs. not running any dryers...

Insulation of used wire.

i got a 250 dolla fine for this....10/2 is not up to code for a 220/240 outlet when i first strated growing and had a run in with the law (cali med user) they could not bust us for the plants so they hit us with everything they could.....

 

[clowntown]

Even an armored 10/2 flexible metal cable w/ standard insulation on the ground wire is not up to code for a 220/240v outlet, or just the 10/2 Romex without real insulation on the ground?

If not up to code for both NM and flex. metal, what is the reasoning behind this? In other words, what could possibly go wrong by using 10/2 for 220/240v? Both in a typical / practical scenario, and also in theoretical / rare situations? What is a 10/2 NM (without insulated ground) typically used for, that is up-to-code?

[Apologies for the extreme noobishness; just a few weeks ago I didn't even have the slightest clue on what exactly a 220/240v involved... didn't know that it was two hot legs, didn't know diddly squat.]

 

[JamesChong]

Hey 00420,

Here's the info on the site. If I can, I'd like to buy a dryer cord and wire it in the bottom of the unit. Then I can just unplug it when I take down everything. They are saying each outlet is rather for 1000 watts and the unit it self is maxed at 40 amps, but since my dryer outlet is only 30amps and I'm using all 600HPS lights. I'm trying to figure out if I will be safe or not.

Don't want to burn down my new place. Anyone, please jump in and give me any info. Tried to PM DB2004. That guy knows his shit.
Later,
BG

The MLC-8D and MLC-8aD Master Lighting Controllers are the best devices for controlling two sets of four lights, each with separate timings. You run 40 amp, 240 volt power into the MLC-8D, and have the ability to control 4 outlets with one trigger cable and 4 outlets with the other. Plug the trigger cords into standard timers, and when trigger cords receive power, the lights will turn on. The MLC-8D features eight standard 240 volt style (NEMA 6-15) outlets to plug in your ballasts. The MLC-8aD has 120 volt style (NEMA 5-15) outlets which allows for running your ballasts at 240 volts without having to change out your standard 120 volt ballast power cords. The MLC-8D and MLC-8aD's are rated for 40 amps @ 240 volts.

 

[clowntown]

Off-topic, but JamesChong and DIGITALHIPPY... have you guys ever checked out Sentinel's line of products? Including the MDT and the HPH's? Not sure if they have the functionality you're looking for, but I've been hearing about and seeing a lot of them lately, and everyone seems to be satisfied. Bottom line is that they're a relatively new company and appears to have better products at better prices than the traditional competitors (C.A.P., Green Air, etc.).

(I'm not affiliated in any way whatsoever, just talked to some fellow growers who love their Sentinel's.)