205w LED vs 400w HID Let the battle begin!

[treefrog]

So, where's the numbers? Sunday was almost three days ago, lol.

The whining about price is comical. All new technology, especially when they start to get it right, is more expensive than the older options. This is no different.

How much does an ounce of the killer cost?
Maybe we should enter that into the equation.

Also, three cheap ass Home Depot fans?
Please..

Fact is, most growers can easily come up with the coin for an LED.
If not, then maybe you should look into improving your techniques and/or genetics

 

[LEDGirl]

400W HPS/MH (Veg/Flower) Combo

Lumatek Digital 400W Ballast: $189.95 http://www.nationalgardenwholesale....RT_LUMATEK&title=Remote Ballasts&type=product

YieldMaster II 6" Hood: $119.95

http://www.nationalgardenwholesale...._YIELD_MASTER_2&title=Reflectors&type=product

Hortilux Super HPS EN 400W Bulb: $94.95
Hortilux Blue MH 400W Bulb: $129.95

http://www.nationalgardenwholesale....st=HORT_EYE_HORTILUX&title=Lamps&type=product

Ecoplus 6" Inline Fan: $144.95

http://www.nationalgardenwholesale....&title=Ventilation / AC/ Heating&type=product

6" Ducting with Clamps: $21.95

http://www.nationalgardenwholesale....&title=Ventilation / AC/ Heating&type=product

Grand Total: $701.70 + Tax

Yearly Power Consumption @ 12hrs/day @ 11.5 cents per KwH: $292.15

Yearly Bulb Cost: $100+




205W Veg/Flower LED Light: $700 shipped

Yearly Power Consumption @ 12hrs/day @ 11.5 cents per KwH: $90.66

 

[balla420]

Initial Cost

I use the same space to veg and flower, so I used the second set of numbers. I pay $0.13 per kWh. After 1 year, the HID costs $120 less. After 2 years, the HID costs $105 more. After 3, $334 more. After 4, $560 more. And after 5 years, the HID has cost $790 more to run than the LED, and this is completely excluding the cost of replacement bulbs for the HID. I'm only taking into account initial cost and power used by the lights themselves, nothing more.

Maybe you're not hating on LEDs, but you're making them look worse than they are because you can't be bothered to use actual numbers for power usage and share your price per kWh. LEDs don't need your generosity to show that they're more cost effective after only a handful of grows.

I'm not making them look worse than they are. I was just showing a scenario where it would in fact take longer than 1 year to save money using LED's and Even though our estimates are different and your scenario uses more veg time than mine (we'll just have to agree to disagree) Even YOUR scenario shows it taking LONGER than a year (sure, not by much, but longer still) Which is the only point I was setting out to make. and I did, and you confirmed it.

Also, it all depends on how much you spend on your equipment. LEDGirl, is showing a 400w light w/odd's and ends as $701.70 which is rediculous. You can find all those listed components or buy a package for MUCH less.

and even when the LED catches up and makes it cheaper, its still about (at least) twice as much $ up front. If you're just spending $10-$20 extra a month on electricity, it's not gonna break the bank.

So, where's the numbers? Sunday was almost three days ago, lol.

The whining about price is comical. All new technology, especially when they start to get it right, is more expensive than the older options. This is no different.

How much does an ounce of the killer cost?
Maybe we should enter that into the equation.

Also, three cheap ass Home Depot fans?
Please..

Fact is, most growers can easily come up with the coin for an LED.
If not, then maybe you should look into improving your techniques and/or genetics

Yeah, cheap ass home depot fans. Or else, just route your air flow so you use the same fan from your carbon scrubber to vent your light (air in through filter>through canfan>through cooltube>out grow tent/area or outside house)

If your only running a 400w and have a fairly short duct run, then home depot booster fan's will get the job done.

techniques and genetics have nothing to do with being able to afford an LED light, Unless your automatically assuming that EVERYONE sells weed. Maybe they are just growing their own, or just getting started, or growing a naturally low yeilding sativa strain, all things that have nothing to do with technique or how good your genetics are.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

Yeah, my numbers did show that it will take a little over a year. I also didn't include extra bulbs for HID, and didn't mention the fact that LEDs last a hell of a lot longer than HIDs do. There is no possible argument you can make that HIDs are more cost effective in anything other than the very short term.

 

[J R]

The real comparison needs to be made to a 400Watt CMH(Philips) vs a 400 Watt LED.

 

[VerdantGreen]

The real comparison needs to be made to a 400Watt CMH(Philips) vs a 400 Watt LED.

cmh and hps yield pretty much the same as long as it is a strain that responds well to the cmh spectrum (i found some strains became much leafier under cmh)

given that cmh is pretty 'niche' compared to hps i would say that the 'real' comparison, relevent to most people, is between hps and led.

VG

 

[blynx]

Have I missed the photo updates? or have their really been none for over 2 weeks?

That's like one quarter of the grow we haven't seen. Too bad, I was looking forward to seeing a continuous progress, not half and then a jump forward to the end.

Hope everything's ok.

 

[Frozenguy]

I'm not seeing your logic on how a comparable LED light could save you money within the first year???

Here's a scenario being EXTRA GENEROUS to LED's cause that still shows HID being cheaper for at least a few years, even when factoring in Electricity bills. 400w HID vs. your 205w Penetrator LED lamp (which it says right on your website is equal to or better than a 400w HID) and for a 4 month grow (1 month veg/3 months flower)

Booster fan's = $20/fan @ Home Depot (probably less online) x3 = $60

Energy Cost:
Energy Bill $13.xx/month (call it $15/month) This is what I was paying in L.A. in 2007 to run my 400w HID lamp (24/0, 30 days straight) ...

I didn't really get past this part. How much are you paying for electricity man? Lets say your 400HID unit pulls just 400 (it pulls more then 400watts). Lets do this right.

The cheapest price of electricity I've seen in NorCal is $0.11/kwh, but that increases quickly to ~0.23 -> 0.33 -> $0.44/kwh if you live in the house.

0.4kw * $0.11/kwhours * 24 hours/day * 30 days/month = $31.68 minimum for the light alone, for 1 month. So I didn't really continue on with the other numbers because they could be off by a facter of 2 -> 8
Chances are, you were on the second, third or fourth tier at most parts of the month and were paying more like $0.20 -> $0.45/kwh


And I would never buy ventilation fans for $20 a piece. Noisy as hell without a lifetime guarantee.. But thats trivial I suppose.

 

[balla420]

I didn't really get past this part. How much are you paying for electricity man? Lets say your 400HID unit pulls just 400 (it pulls more then 400watts). Lets do this right.

The cheapest price of electricity I've seen in NorCal is $0.11/kwh, but that increases quickly to ~0.23 -> 0.33 -> $0.44/kwh if you live in the house.

0.4kw * $0.11/kwhours * 24 hours/day * 30 days/month = $31.68 minimum for the light alone, for 1 month. So I didn't really continue on with the other numbers because they could be off by a facter of 2 -> 8
Chances are, you were on the second, third or fourth tier at most parts of the month and were paying more like $0.20 -> $0.45/kwh


And I would never buy ventilation fans for $20 a piece. Noisy as hell without a lifetime guarantee.. But thats trivial I suppose.

As I said...this was a while ago and in SoCal, so I really don't remember how much i was paying (in kWh) for electricity. All I know is when I first bought the 400w HID light I have, I calculated the cost to run it, and saved it as a .txt file on my computer.

as for the fans... I don't think you're thinking of the same fans as me. The $20 ones I'm talking about are not very loud at all, especially when you consider that theres ducting hooked up to it, which acts somewhat like a muffler.

 

[blazeoneup]

Ok I got the final numbers however I am not gonna post them until I can upload the pictures...

My 2 year old daughter jerked my laptop off the stand and broke the screen and I just havent been online much lately. I got a new screen on the way and when it gets here and I get the laptop fixed I'll get the pictures uploaded.

I'll reveal the final weight when I can post up the pics at the same time, I dont wanna post the final results and have anyone trying to dispute the facts so until I got the pics uploaded I'll keep the weight to myself.

All I am gonna say for now is the LED rocks and produced very nice numbers, The HID did infact produce more total weight but the LED produced a higher gpw by a long shot....

I've been running urkle now for 4+ years and until I ran a LED light I never came close to hitting 1 gpw now I can officially say I pulled 1 gpw + using a LED with urkle...

The urkle didnt purple up as it normally does not sure why, Not on the HID or LED side!

 

[Sir_Nugget]

i just paid 54$ for a 400w HPS ballast, brand new, but it is raw, and I wire it together myself and whatnot. as long as you use good wire connectors and the right gauge ampacity wire, you'l be ok.. I have the capacitor in a clean dry plastic bottle to keep it from being touched, and I always check for heat... The bulb I got cost 30$ and it is a 55,000 lumen growbright bulb but hey, not eveyone needs a 100$ hortilux, as LED girl claims, and I sure as hell don't need no metal halide, I veg using my HPS and it works just fine.. My grow is really cheap, I will either burn my house down or pull pounds, we will see

 

[Greyskull]

hey folks dont forget to edit posts for blaze's so you can skip the bullshit...

looking foprward to the pics blaze
2 year olds are fun, huh? hahahha
ALOHA

 

[AOD2012]

yes greyskull, because there is a lot of that in here. haha

 

[dasruckus]

400W HPS/MH (Veg/Flower) Combo

Lumatek Digital 400W Ballast: $189.95 http://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/lighting.aspx?request=HORT_LUMATEK&title=Remote%20Ballasts&type=product

YieldMaster II 6" Hood: $119.95

http://www.nationalgardenwholesale...._YIELD_MASTER_2&title=Reflectors&type=product

Hortilux Super HPS EN 400W Bulb: $94.95
Hortilux Blue MH 400W Bulb: $129.95

http://www.nationalgardenwholesale....st=HORT_EYE_HORTILUX&title=Lamps&type=product

Ecoplus 6" Inline Fan: $144.95

http://www.nationalgardenwholesale....&title=Ventilation / AC/ Heating&type=product

6" Ducting with Clamps: $21.95

http://www.nationalgardenwholesale....&title=Ventilation / AC/ Heating&type=product

Grand Total: $701.70 + Tax

Yearly Power Consumption @ 12hrs/day @ 11.5 cents per KwH: $292.15

Yearly Bulb Cost: $100+

Alright, from what I gather those costs are completely over the top.

All over ebay (some sellers actually have quality products) you can find 400-600w HPS setups including timer, adjustable hangers, light hood (with inline cooling option), TWO bulbs (MH + HPS), the ballast and socket.

All of this for $300 dollars shipped. Those lights put out about 70-100k lumens (depending on bulb, 600w). Already you have 400 dollars left over to cover for power. - That's quite the price difference if you shop around.

Looking at the pre-fabricated LED lights and it seems they aren't using the newest LEDs available. The guy at this website (sorry if it's already been referenced) uses the newer types but he hasn't made it into an efficient encloser, just a test bed.

It would help everyone if people invested a little bit of time and research just to build their own LED panel. It would be inexpensive compared to those store bought LED panels.

Just trying to help get some information out there.

 

[Weezard]

I'll show you mine, if you'll show me yours.

I'll show you mine, if you'll show me yours.

It would help everyone if people invested a little bit of time and research just to build their own LED panel. It would be inexpensive compared to those store bought LED panels.

Just trying to help get some information out there.

Something like this?





Inexpensive?
Not if you do it right.

Does that help?

Aloha,
Weezard

 

[SinisterLion]

It probably didn't purple because of a phenotype variation, nothing to worry about, with all the sub genetic variations in any given strain, no matter if it's 99% stable there's always going to be that one time it takes another shape.

I was going to say Weezard, from studying most excellent LED related info on this forum building your own panel is neither, cheap nor inexpensive (though compared to retail mark up you do have a point, also the scammers etc.)

I honestly wouldn't advise it unless you have the technical know how like Weezard and the time to invest in it. Having been looking at this topic for over two years now from what I can see HydroGrow has quality product for the price, you would be hard pressed to beat those results with the ease of acquiring it.

BTW love Urkle, what a pretty pretty girl she is, especially under the CMH, such a dark almost black purple with resin glands laying across each other like fine hairs, beautiful site.

Thanks for the thread.

 

[YosemiteSam]

thanks Blaze, nicely done...looking forward to the pics.

I remember my favorite 2 yr old moment...I was putting shingles on the roof, turned around and there was my 2 yr old, little dude had climbed the ladder. I tried to give him a hammer but his mother was in the middle of a panic attack.

 

[hazy]

Can't wait to see those final numbers and pics.
Sounds like you did pretty good.

 

[JimBeamKush]

Any idea how long until the final numbers ETC?

 

[kava]

Always remember that no job is finished till the paper work is complete.
In this case Blaze is waiting to fill the paper and twist it up to get the taste test done also. Oh yeah great job Blaze. I hope you get everthing repaired and put back together (without extra parts left over) I always have extras. I would like to thank you for the window into your grow world
Take care and be safe.
signed Kava