2.5x1.8 meter coco scrog, 3 strain bingo!!

[Tokesome]

Hey Scrog, the last lot just never pushed up much. The Grapefruit are really stretchy and pushy and they`re in the middle, but the Arma`s are shoving it up too. I was lazy though and never replaced the screen after the last grow so it was a bit cut up and as a result does`nt all pull together as well. I`ve also had to make shit loads of cuts in the screen to train the current lot.

I`ll probably get on to the Canna thing next week, but yeah guys, I`ll try your suggestions.

Hey I`m well chuffed with the auto feed systems, but I think I`ll make at least one addition. I`m gonna put "T" splitters at the end of each feed tube and a bit of tube off of each one so that it pours into the pots in a greater area.

The Grapefruit is stretching a bit wildly, long stems forming above the screen before the buds begin to appear, hope they slow down soon, I could do without it being too tall in the middle, but I guess you have to expect a bit of that on a multi strain grow.

Cheers, Toke ;-)

 

[Scrogerman]

Yeah your looking real good in there now man, very neat n tidy! You can see what i mean about that 40-60 pm2 head count now ah buddy! Overall i think you'll get nice sized buds like this man! You may have to pull a few down and tie off to the screen, just give em plenty of room where you tie n dont tie too tight, i dug into a couple of my stems doing that, but its gotta be done, certain tops shooting off fighting for Apical dominance! Anyway very tidy Bro!
Peace & Respect.......Scroger!

 

[~Shhh~]

Glad it's all working well for you mate, I just ended up changing the netafim outlets to the 4 ways that I had and bob's your uncle all was well... I am not really sure why it was doing this as when it started to work I was chuffed to bits I wouldn't have to do a trial and error job on the each dripper line

I see you have your lines below coming up from the base of the pots, just as well u have the hole in your line from pump as this should stop any siphoning of water which also happened to me once carpet full of water and water coming through ceiling rose was a bit scary, but u have had similar so u know the coo

 

[Tokesome]

Yeah Scrog, you`ve definitely shown me the way with some clarity, difficult to do through a monitor screen, nice one bro! One thing tho, some of the tops, mostly the Grapefruit are sending out flowering branches from some of the individual tops, like almost competing ones as far as getting into the light. Do you carry on removing these mostly or leave them. The branching off is occurring above the screen, not from beneath, they`ve all gone for now.

Yeah I`ve dug into branches myself before now, especially after forgetting to remove some early LST ties! I`ve got lots of twistie wires and already have a few tied down to the screen.

Hey Scrog, why are you thinking of a coco grow, thought you had your favourite method down?

Hey Shhh, yeah I haven`t tested them all yet, i HAVEN`T GOT 15 SUITABLE BOTTLES/CONTAINERS (oops sorry, friggin Caps Lock, didn`t mean to shout) to do a single test, which`d be best and I must set about getting things do do this. I`ve checked 3 so far and they`re all pretty much identical so far. Did you find the ones furthest along the 8 way splitter were the weaker, or was it random?

I just timed 4 minutes to give a liter to a pot. I got myself a two separate channel digi timer that I can plug both pumps into, but program individually. Not a great idea, as if the timer goes down they both go off. Its the only one I could get my hands on today though. Under a tenner and g`teed for 3 years.

Its a relief not to be fighting a problem, its the first time for ages as you know. Its also a relief not to be hand feeding twice a day, no mean feat under the screen. Easy life for a while hopefully, leaving more time for me to tend to the canopy.

Cheers, Toke;-)

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

this is gonna be epic bro.

for all you scrogers. i got a q. i've never done scrog the way i am now.

there was no way i could veg with 10,000 watts for a month and a half, so i vegged under 4000. and squeezed them together.

so therefore i couldn't train them during veg. i was thinking i would spread them out and put them under the 10,000's and put the screens on them a little lower than the plant height, and work them through the best i can. than veg for a week with 10,000 and train them the best i can for a week.

i was thinking i will probably do most of my training during the stretch.

does anyone have any input..is this a bad/good idea?

sorry to threadjack, but i just hadda ask.

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Toke,
Yeah some Strains will do that, & its a worrie, you go & remove everything thinking ok job done, then a few days later tops/shoots start taking off from the lower branches above the screen, its a fucker a complicates the issue. What i do is just remove over crowded areas & leave as much room for Airflow as i can, cant have enough in a ScrOG imo. So its trail & error from strain to strain as to how much of these lower shoots we take, just be sensible & remember that a lot will just end up as leaching popcorn nugs, so i get rid of alot of those, but id say just be sensible, if you think its gonna end up shadowed out and less than half a g, get rid of it! Thats how i looked at it but it is a fucker & defo strain specific. Its all about those Tops & if you got 20 little bits of Pop coming off the same branch lower down, its gonna leach off the top you want! Think Cola's man, Dont take them all though, i tended to leave more around the sides where there was less mass. Again its trial & error with each strain.

CoCo, I am seeing coco grows competeing with DWC grows in yield & probably better flavour? But its the Speed, i am seeing coco keeping up with DWC too, noisey airpumps are the only thing thats making want to make the switch, i have inquisitive kids & stelth is paramount, i'll always love dwc though. thats why i came up with the BubbleFlow idea, lower pump size & less airstones etc, its bound to be quieter but coco is looking more & more promising all the time! I may just have to build the Bubbleflow unit, can be as big or small as i want it & accomidate any number of plants from 2 to 52 or more. Next time i have the spare cash i may just build it man! or its Coco, one or the other! I used NFT last time but DWC is my favorite by far these days, its the fastest & gives monster buds imo!

 

[Scrogerman]

Scrog

Scrog

I Smoke kush,
I saw your set up man, wow its killer man! V-Cool!
Plants get trained through the Screen in the Veg period and part of Bloom in a traditional ScrOG. Maybe if you have enough plants your plan would work but its more of a Semi-Scrog. To me a Scrog brings down plant numbers, utilises the space with training to give Maximum yield with the minimum amount of plants in a given area, thats the point. Your not gonna get much training done just in the stretch phase, or in the first few wks of 12/12. But if you have the plant numbers right & the Cola head count right then why not, sure your plan could work man! I think once anyone tries a ScrOG they will never go back to standard growing, & LST etc is a pain compared to the ease of training through a screen, i would'nt fancy LST'ing a hoard of plants, having the screen just makes it simple! & heights are alot easier to control! Good Luck Man~! Saying all that, if plant numbers were of no concern then id go with SOG anyway!

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

i'm basically just going to use the screen as a trellis instead of tying up all my plants so they don't fall down. i'll train the budsites through the screen the best i can.

 

[fly poster]

Looking forward to seeing this one Toke. Cheers!

 

[Tokesome]

Cheers Sgrogger, I`ll do what I can to judge things best I can. I`m sure some more will have to be removed, but I`ll wait a little longer and see what shape and space they take up.

Hey Ismaokekush, as Scrogger says, wow, what a set-up. Yeah if plant numbers are irrelevant I`d sog in that set-up, it`d be shitloads of plants to sort out initially, but less work throughout the grow me thinks.

Hey Shhh, thanks for the heads up on the 8 ways being uneven, they are indeed totally shite!! They`re so uneven, like 75/25% differences at the end of identical length feed lines, I don`t know what application they could possibly suit, and wonder why they`re sold by leading hydro stores?? Fucked up world!!

I think I`m going to get individual spikes and spike each feed line directly to the supply loop, hopefully this will solve this issue. I`ve got to get it done soon, as I feel the need to get away for 2 or 3 days.

Hey Fly Poster, good to see you here on IC . You still up for getting out tmro?

Cheers Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Day 19

Day 19

Well things are looking good in my room and all is progressing nicely. I`m a bit annoyed about having to go back to the shop yet again to get more bits to re-do my auto irrigation set-up. I know I`m a moaning old fucker sometimes, but those 8 way netafim splitters are just so crap, a waste of my time and money, and the amount of waste nutes I`m running through the pots where the flow is heaviest, before the ones that are lighter supplied start to run off. moan moan moan moan. I`m sure if this hobby was a bit more above board that such items wouldn`t last in the market place. I doubt you`d get this kind of inaccuracies in say the home plumbing world for example. Doesn`t it piss you guys off too?? Or am I really just a moaning old c**t?

Ah well on with the show. They seem to be loving the ec1.4 feed, though I haven`t done any run off checks in a while and really must do this again in the next couple of days, its things like that where I can easily get a bit complacent. That`s all they`re getting Canna A+B, but I`m thinking of lowering the strength to give a low dose of molasses to the plants once a week, and then I`ll just add PK13/14 3 weeks before estimated harvest date. No bloom stimulants other than the standard PK13/14. Next time I should be able to afford some Canna boom booster if I fancy giving it a try. If I think I`ve got things dialed in well enough it may be of a worthwhile benefit. I`d been thinking about trying it on some plants against some plants without any bloom stims. Ah, distant dreams!

The lifting of the screen in the middle of the grow is not going to be able to be fully controlled by tying it down from underneath. The screen is only set at 20cms from the top of the pots, and on reflection I think that may be a bit low for plants of this size, or I need to be a bit more serious about training the plants in early veg.

Hey Scrogger, what do you set your screen height at as a rule? Any one else too?

Here you can see the swollen centre area, which isn`t going to be the most efficient use of the lighting, I`ve started pulling some of the taller ones over but its still generally going to be a good bit higher here. This means the edges are`nt going to fair so well, I cant afford more lighting in, temps would get too high. I`ll pop some reflectors around where I can, though I need the front pretty open to allow airflow from the 2 fans sat on the 2 res`s aiming over the top of the grow dispersing the heat from the lights.

You can see lots of flowering heads now.

These 2 are Armageddons, the colas are starting to form well I reckon, at day 20.

The Grapefruit are doing their thing, but even the main tops are quite stretchy looking and the secondary are even stretchier looking. I`ll try and get some accurate looking photos of them so you can see what I mean, I failed dismally in my results with the camera.

The Big bud are looking well behind the others and haven`t had as much growth in any area, buds or branching out. I`ve got a cut saved to make a mum from, but I dont think its a good quality pheno by the looks of it.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Scrogger, what do you set your screen height at as a rule? Any one else too?

Bigger the Screen the more i raise it, but as a rule 12" is comfortable for me. The bloody last one was a f**k up bro at 17", i got to it too late & it was out of my control, they were 25"+ & i managed to gain 8" back without breaking anything. But yeah 12" i would be looking at, but if you can get away with less height its gotta be a bonus & means less Veg time!


You can see lots of flowering heads now.

Yeah man your gonna have a fair Crop here, its a jungle in there bro! What you after/hoping for?

Cheers, Toke [/quote]

Nice one man looks cool! You going AirCooled at any point in the near future!???=More Lighting + More Noise(the only trouble)

 

[Tokesome]

Well Scrogger, I`ve been used to getting 60-65oz from 15 plants grown standardly in this set-up, 67oz being my best ever result, so I`d be hoping to break that pretty well. To be honest tho bro, its been such bad results off the past few grows that I`d be happy with any reasonable amount.

Yeah next time I`m going to have to find a better way of hoding the screen down with struts etc.

Yeah I fancy going aircooled with at least some lighting next time around. I think I`d probably make a noise saving, as my 8inch RVK is on at full strength and is pretty noisy. I reckon I could turn it down substantially if I got the hoods air cooled with smaller fans making it less noisy over all.

Cheers for now, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Thats a great yield bro, well done & i hope you smash your personal best this time round!

 

[~Shhh~]

What's good toke!

Drip irrigation can be a real PITA I find, half the problem is as you mention and it really fookin does my head in to... How half of the equipment on sale manages to stay on sale is beyond me sometimes... I mean netafim are no small co. and they're actually directed at the commercial gardening sector as a whole...

Anyway, the best way I have found of maintaining similar if not the same pressure between drip lines is to just stick the dripper into the line itself as apposed to using a manifold of any type.

It doesn't help that the numpties that we find in some of the hydro stores (not all) don't have a frikkin clue either! It's frustrating to say the least. Right I think it's 'rant off' time, lol

I just called my mate whom I gave the 4-way netafim drippers to, and guess what they are also doing the same thing now! He reckons they may have become a lil blocked though... I have some of those 'topspin' dripper manifolds you seen em? have 12 way outlet for lines and fit into either 16mm ldpe or 25mm ldpe. (check growell website for further details)

I haven't tried em yet tbh, think they require a certain amount of pressure being produced by the pump to operate correctly.

Before I talk to much and end up forgetting the intention of my post, call a Garden Irrigation specialist (out of town ) and explain what you are trying to achieve then have them tell you the best way to do it, oh and by some drip clean by ATA as well! Best to be on the safe side.

Your plants are looking really good bro IMO, that screen is bursting, in a good way, with colas looks to be about the right amount of spacing for them to make good buds too. Have you thought about sticking a few floro's around the parts of the screen that you say will have less lighting?? It's cheap and you would be very surprised what a few low wattage light bulb type floro's would do for the buds mate!

 

[gaiusmarius]

to me the screen looks perfectly full for this stage, you do want nice long colas above the screen in the end, so it looks just about right.

i wonder if the uneven water through put is due to the time it takes your pump to fill the whole system up with water before all the drip lines start to drip. this is why it's best to have a one way valve in the system just after your particle filter. that way the hose never empty, so as soon as the pump runs they all start to drip. but it could be just a shity bit of gear too, just an idea how it should work.

 

[~Shhh~]

Hey guys, excuse my long posts today... I dunno what's come across me lol!

Anyway, another thought on the irrrigation toke, everytime I have had the drip lines below the rez's highest point of water, I have had problems, be it siphoning or pressure issues it always caused probs.... Now I must also admit to being a bit shit when designing dripper systems.... But my best ones were always when...

1. Drip lines were not on a manifold/ outlet. Just straight into pipe.

2. Non -return valve was used (one way valve as GM calls it)

3. Rez was lower than any part of the drip feed line.

peace

~S

 

[Tokesome]

Nice one Scrogger, to be honest this should kick the standard grown plants into touch yield wise, though new strains that I dont know the potential of, and I have a couple of runt Big Buds at the ends of the screen that probably wont contribute much in the end as they`ll get swamped for light by the height of the nieghbouring plants. I`d expect early finishers (The Arma`s 7 weeks, prob go 8 tho) to not yield so much, tho I dont have any basis for this other than how the f**k can they chuck so much at you in such a short time.

Gaius mate, hi, no I took your point on this before, but its only uneven in that respect, up to about 20-30mls. When its fully up and running you can see variable good spurts out of some ends and measely trickles out of others. It defo is crap gear, I dont think pump pressure is an issue, I got 1 meter lift, 670ltr per hour pumps, and once the syphoning affect comes into affect I doubt there`s much of a pressure issue for them to handle. Pure speculation of course.

Yeah Gaius, those Arma tops look the biz dont they?, and spacing I`m happy with, just enough room for them to all be comfortable. The Grapefruit in the middle though are a different animal, well plant, though, long internode spacing and much stretchier, I imagine they`re going to be a good bit higher than the Arma`s, but lets see where the stretch leaves them as they haven`t finished stretching yet. I think the Arma`s have finished their initial stretch. Heh heh, the Big Bud, I didn`t notice them stretch at all!!

I`ve been tackling some of that apical dominence that Scrogger was referring to. I`ve got some more to do in the next couple of days, its certainly helping things look a bit more even, which is the idea. I noticed in Scrogger`s last journal that he didn`t get to the plants for a week or so and had missed the opportunity to tether some down and get more of the secondaries coming through. I can certainly understand that, especially before the end of stretch when they need to respond to the light. I think I`m getting it right though, just trying to keep things as even as I can.

Hey Shhh, yeah I dont know wtf they`re on the market, or at least sold to punters for this kind of set up. When you said you kept your feed loop above the res height, I can understand that for not syphoning after pumps off, but how much difference did it make to individual feed line pressures?? I ask this as I wonder if the different roots that the feed lines take to the pots, ie different angles of slope etc., can affect the pressure. I wouldn`t have thought very much, but its been niggling me a little.

Cheer`s for now, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

With a Bit of Luck that Screen Of Green is going to Kick Fuckin ass Bro & looks like a big yields coming your way, im rootin for you bro, its up to them now man, you have all avenue's covered imo! Looks dialled to me bro! Nicceeeee

 

[Tokesome]

With a Bit of Luck that Screen Of Green is going to Kick Fuckin ass Bro & looks like a big yields coming your way, im rootin for you bro, its up to them now man, you have all avenue's covered imo! Looks dialled to me bro! Nicceeeee

Thanks Bro, I dont count it as dialed in until its all done, but yeah I couldn`t be happier over all.

I`ve got one or two things to tend to, mainly getting the auto feed set-up completed and measured accurately to digi timers, so I can fuck off for a couple of days!! A bit more apical dominance cotrol, leggy girls always take more tying down. I reckon its going to be easy life through till the chop.

I`m going to give a dose of PK13/14 to the 3 Arma`s I put to flower early that are sat at the side of the grow, its 3 weeks till their chop day. I`m not expecting anything much from these though just a bit of early smoke. They`re small plants with just a few flowering branches on each plant and not getting a great share of the light. I`m going to set these up to feed by wicking directly from their res beneath tmro.

Heres a pic after doing about half to 2/3rds of the tying down of dominant tops, a fooking lot of them too, but there seems to be space to tie back a bit without anything else losing out.

Here`s a pic of a typical Grapefruit top, there are a few thicker stems that are more densely populated by bud sites, but this is a very typical Grapefruit top. They`re still stretching and have a very different look to the Armageddon.

and an Armageddon for comparison

Mostly Grapefruit tops

I`m still seeing a bit of this in just a few leafs on the Armageddon plants, very few and it doesn`t seem to be getting any worse. It has the intervienal discolouring, but the veins are very very dark and in between the they`re still green, not yellow as you`d expect if it was a typical Mg def. Any thoughts guys?? As I said there are only a few leaves like this, not even 1%.

This is the Armageddon mother I kept. Its flourishing a bit too well, I could do with slowing the growth down, I dont have space for big mothers. I`m using a 200w envoronlight which I think is too strong for this purpose. I want to keep up to 3 mothers and have space for at least one prop box for cloning in a cupboard that is about 2 1/2 feet square. Its several feet tall and I plan to put a shelf in for bringing clones on a bit so they`re ready to go straight in after harvesting. What strength flouro light would be good enough for this purpose guys?

Its going to be mainly bud porn from here on in I hope.

Cheers, Toke