1969 Mekong Delta strain

[tazz11]

next I started testing the strain for cold temps . often cold temps will tell you more about a strain in one cycle then any other test ...


after defining the strain was not like normal strains , I noticed it would not flower under 1000 HPs lights , I then went to twin 1200 LED and got the strain to flower and this made the strain flower in 14-18 weeks ..giving me the chance to match it to a mate . out of 36 strains I found out it would only mate with one strain the (SSSDH X G13 )by Rez Seeds.. it did not make any common logic to me at the time because (SSSDH ) by Reservoir Seeds was in the same room at the time . and did not make viable seed ...nothing was wrong with that SSSDH at the time ...


here is a pic of both mates , on the left is the (SSSDH ) on the Right is the SSSDH X G13 ) the plant at the end of the row in the center is a smaller SSSDH that was left for smoke ...that strain tops well and has a nice soft haze taste ..but the G13 was darker leaf and nice growth traits ..

 

[tazz11]

before we tested the Abducted as a mate . we tested it in hydro under the 1200 Led , here is what we got from those tests,.... very much like a G13 dark leaf Sativa ..or G14 .


yes G13 was a 70% indicia 30% Sativa but if you worked with some of the early hybrids you got a little more Sativa when crossing them and that tells me it had more Sativa then most knew .. I would have guess about 50/50 - 60 /40 Sativa dominate ... see its easy for the indicia traits to show up in modern environments in door and that's where a lot of those early G13 ended up at ....IMHO I dis agree with the Afghani cross idea .. that may have been what was in the G14 but I believe the early G13 had NL in it ...and yes I have tested for it I have a early 70's NL ...the strain Crazy is a good example of this ...

 

[tazz11]

at the end of this test we got a chance to see our first Abducted male / female plant ..


the plants started out looking like a normal male ,it flowered for 2 weeks and then it's red hairs turned all red and liquid sap like , and the plant converted to a full out female ...on like any other hermaphrodite I have ever seen before ...I do have pics of this but I would have to go hunt them up and its not going to help at this point IMHO ...



so lets go back to the hybrid cross stage

 

[tazz11]

when the Abducted did mate we got a nice set of two prime (SSSDH X G13 X Abducted F1 )and pollenated them with a SSSDH X G13 X Abducted Prime Male , here is a pic of the two (SSSDH X G13 X Abducted Females that are making seed , SSSDH X G13 X Abducted , on the far left is the G13 phenol , next moving to the right on it is the Thai Haze phenol, remember the Abducted has some back ground traits of the native Thai ... and they can be seen here at this stage ..., next to them are two Abducted prime females ..they are making back cross F1 seed .and we are using the same ,selected Prime male pollen for both at the same time .. this takes crazy timing to pull this off . and it worked great ... the out come will be 7 hybrids . one will F2's and another will be F1 backcross ..


the second pic is of the two (SSSDH X G13 X Abducted F1 selected prime Females ) two phenol and yes we keep both in the mix ...

 

[tazz11]

there was 5 prime females in all , two (SSSDH X G13 X Abducted select female F1's and 3 prime Abducted females F1's ...


the cross would make F2's for the (SSSDH X G13 X Abducted F1's) male pollen to female plants ...open pollination .. and Abducted backcross F1's,....did it work , yes . the rom had a selection of 5 other hybrids at the time ,....


the crosses would define the seedlings in the pics and Abducted would have a future that most rare strains never get ...

 

[tazz11]

4 years was it worth it .....you tell me ?, but its what I am really really good at !


blind men make the best weed you will ever smoke .. if your lucky to even find some ...


I have not smoked any other strains for the last 3 years . no need too .. I have taken the trait of great smoking leafs and build that trait in to the weed it self ...


this is out right the finest strain in the world ...IMHO ...

 

[tazz11]

Dan ,,,


you do know 1 of the 7 hybrids is a ....


(SSSDH X G13 X Abducted F1 ) male pollen X ( C99 in 7th gen monster clone ) select prime female .


the off spring seedling will be in C99 8th gen double F1 hybrid

where did you get your C99 ...?


and yes I have a full photo record of the strain and it is documented..


the base strain was from Mosca seeds C99 F1 Lot #1011

 

[tazz11]

just in case you wonder if I could be correct or not about the G13 and where it came from .. they just change the location to hide the true source ....read this you may change your opinion ... http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/nytimes/obituary.aspx?pid=177114999


TheY left us some clues .. it was up to us to find them ...


http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/nytimes/obituary.aspx?pid=170424401


so all I can ask you , is why would someone in This field take the risk and hide a sample from the government and make sure no one would find out ...simple.... We are the endangered species...




here is another page of data you may find interesting where he uses the word Cross-breeding


https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=M_wFAAAAIBAJ&pg=7013,3651183&hl=en


note : my point is clear we may never know where G13 came from ,, but here is some data to take into account ..


here are 3 scientist researching the same field of study . at least one has a military back ground .they have founding and resources ,,,IMHO the G13 story is in fact True in some of details ..and one only need look at the time line of these 3 men working on the same type of genetic research ....in the same 3 year time span ...one state away ...would they have change the location to protect their jobs and reputations ,, I think so ....


if I am correct what dose this tell us about G13 ...? and why it made Viable seed with the Abducted strain base ...?


yes very interesting .. a good read if nothing else ...


I do remember a debate back in the day about G13 coming from Mississippi or Tennessee.., if this new data is correct the story could in fact be true .. and this would give us some in sight as to what they were doing with G13 and why ...

 

[WelderDan]

Wow. That's just.... wow.

Well, best of luck to you

 

[tazz11]

1 one the parts of the details of this legend stated the government collected strain from around the world .. so yes in fact it would have been possible that a Vietnamese sativa was collected and that could in fact mean that I was correct G13 could be a hybrid cross of Abducted or another related Vietnamese Sativa , if the stories about name were correct and many cannabis fields were destroyed then we may never know but the fact remains clear it is possible , and Abducted strain reacted to the G13 when mated , I got thinking about that and I was looking at the fact they were working with genders , the Vietnamese Sativa with its rare male gender traits could have been selected on those traits for those test . now look at the G13 and the Abducted as breeding lines .. you have a rare near pure Sativa and a near pure Afghani , they in fact did the same thing I did ,if this is what happened ..


the Vietnamese Red wide leaf Sativa was almost un controllable ,I hybrid to stabilize it . what strain did I select to stabilize it ..( SSSDH X G13 ) and we know from those test the G13 was the stabilizing factor .., I did the exact same thing they did with out knowing it...what really stood out was HP and Nl were both in the 36 hybrids that did not make viable seed ...


makes me wonder what the G13 has that the other 36 hybrid strains don't ....?


it really dose make since if you think about . the G13 had to have the Vietnamese Sativa in it .. why .. look at my test




the Abducted only mated with the other strains after they had been crossed with the (SSSDH X G13 X Abducted ) prime male


the only other strain it mated with was in fact the (SSSDH X G13 ) and it did not mate with the (SSSDH) ...


what that means is the Abducted only made seed as a land race IBL ...


the G13 would have already had 30 -40 % Vietnamese Sativa in it ..so what ever the government was doing to the G13 has something to do with mating Viable genders .


makes me wonder if Nam Black would have reacted the same way ..


but from what I am seeing it tells me the G13 started out as a Vietnamese Sativa and then was crossed to make G13 , most likely NL or a near pure Afghani ...so


if that's the case . the Hybrid (SSSDH X G13 X Abducted F1 ) male X ( Crazy F1 ) female ) should turn out very close to the early G13 .....


the Crazy strain is a early 70's NL's


I should be able to tell you the strains that made G13 . the test with the NL Crazy strain will tell us 100% if NL was used in the making of G13 ...this is a rare chance to look back in time ....this also may give us insight into how NL was made ...


if this works it means the G13 strain did most likely come from Tennessee


this is going to get very interesting ...!

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day Tazz

What about the Haze C ?
(SSSDH X G13 x Haze C X Abducted F1 )

After a bit of Googling I find the "G13" Rez used was a G13 haze hybrid male he acquired from Soma . Who was given the G13 x Hz C by Shantibaba who bought the seeds from Nevil . Who acquired the original G13 cutting in the USA and returned to the Netherlands . Anything labeled G13 these days is at best 50 / 50 G13 . Nevil had the female cutting he made hybrids with it . He didn`t have a G13 male .

The SSSDH was apparently the OJD cut . SSH = Nl #5 x Haze C X Sk HzC .

The Haze C came from Sam Skunkman .

Thats three hybrids of Hz C in the mix .

Those links were to guys who researched freezing mammal embryos .
This guy was the boss of the herb farm at University of Mississippi . Dr Carlton Turner .

Dr. Carlton E. Turner was born in Choctaw County, Alabama in 1940. He graduated from the University of Southern Mississippi, earning a bachelor’s degree in chemistry and master’s and doctoral degrees in organic chemistry. Turner became one of the nation’s leading experts on the botany and pharmacology of marijuana.

Before joining the Reagan Administration, Turner headed the Marijuana Research Project at the University of Mississippi. He served in the University’s Research Institute for Pharmaceutical Studies, becoming Director of the Institute in 1980. He also worked as a consultant for government agencies and private firms in the United States, Mexico, and Canada, as well as for the United Nations.


https://reaganlibrary.archives.gov/archives/textual/smof/turnerc.htm

Thanks for sharin

EB

 

[tazz11]

G`day Tazz

What about the Haze C ?
(SSSDH X G13 x Haze C X Abducted F1 )

After a bit of Googling I find the "G13" Rez used was a G13 haze hybrid male he acquired from Soma . Who was given the G13 x Hz C by Shantibaba who bought the seeds from Nevil . Who acquired the original G13 cutting in the USA and returned to the Netherlands . Anything labeled G13 these days is at best 50 / 50 G13 . Nevil had the female cutting he made hybrids with it . He didn`t have a G13 male .

The SSSDH was apparently the OJD cut . SSH = Nl #5 x Haze C X Sk HzC .

The Haze C came from Sam Skunkman .

Thats three hybrids of Hz C in the mix .

Thanks for sharin

EB

great question ..


lets look at what I know vs what you just listed here ..


if what your saying is true then we can prove it very easy at this point, because the Abducted would be the other missing male side of the G13 cutting .. do you under stand what I am saying , Nevil only had the female cut , the Abducted if I am correct would be the male dominate side of the G13 strains base and the NL strain base ,and look if I am correct and it dose the same in the NL strain .. look at the NL#5 X Haze C , now look at Sam's Haze C ,did he use G13 or NL in making that Haze C ..?


and remember the Abducted strain base has a Native Thai relationship in its back ground ,


see what I am saying if he did it would be adding more Vietnamese Sativa back into the cross hybrid ..


and we find the same thing in Soma's Haze ..



well there is one way to find out . its my under standing that the Vietnamese Sativa was collected and crossed to stabilize it the same way I did ... if that's the case G13 would be a hybrid cross of a 60-70% pure indicia most likely Afghani .. that's why it shows up at times as a Sativa or Indicia dominate strain base ..

the fact would be the land race Sativa dose not hide in the back ground well ...lol


the other thing I would look at is the source of the haze used ...


see the G13 ,you would be talking about a Vietnamese Sativa crossed with a Afghani... most likely the Sativa would have been the male gender base strain of the cross that would let the female traits show up in the cross off spring , that's a normal selection ..


so Nevil had one side of the G13 strain , just like my (SSSDH X G13 ) it would have most likely been the female side of G13 . the Afghani indicia side and then look how the Abducted related to the G13 ,because it was the male side of strain base of the same G13 strain .. has to be IMHO ...


so IMHO what we are seeing is the Abducted is the missing male side of G13 , it would have had to be the base strain G13 was made from ...


I will soon see how my Crazy strain dose with the hybrid , this well tell us how abducted relates to NL ....if it reacts the same way as the G13 the Abducted is most likely the male side of both strain hybrids ...


as you know if the 3 haze C are from different base stock they could react as F1 or a totally different source , that could make them part of a breeding sequence that would have a effect on the off spring ..and you would not see it tell they flowered out ..


I guess the only way to be sure is to ask Rez what his free seeds were ? they are labeled Rez Seeds (SSSDH X G13 )


so unless we know directly what was in the Haze we wont know for sure ..the fact your already working with a Haze cross it may weaken the haze traits from being two different haze strains in a male Sativa hybrid ...


take a look at what I mean . see my pic of the SSSDH vs the SSSDH X G13 X Abducted , when hybrid crossed the haze traits faded and the Thai and G13 Sativa traits show up in 50% of the offspring , both these traits are also in the Abducted ...this tells me the Abducted has a direct background to the G13 strain , when this cross was made it was Abducted male pollen , once it was seed I selected a prime male to make the 7 hybrids . in this way I had a good full mass to pic the best prime male , I pic two and cold temp one to slow it down so I could have a full 4 week mating 2 weeks for each male both the same F1 strain ..




IMHO Rez G13 was still a good sample ,and this would confirm nevil had a good cutting and the Soma sample was the same cutting genetic line ,


see some thing I had not told anyone yet in this post if I remember correctly .. but I did have a Mr Nice G13 X hash plant from sensi and that's one of the strains I judge the G13 strain by its traits . and we know where that G13 came from ... lol


so what I can guess the Haze is a less male dominate strain base and is over powered by the other base strain in the crosses ...


it has a lot to do with what gender you are crossing and where it plays out in the breeding sequence ...

 

[Medfinder]

anyone ever see this strain before . , anyone know anything about it ... just looking for info... ...

1978-79 socal 4 gen

then became chocolate thai later

 

[tazz11]

let me add something to this for those wanting to learn about breeding sequences .. the cube , lets you reinforce both genders of the host strain ... open end backcross lets you reinforce one gender or the other , see this gives you a why to work with the traits of one gender vs the other ,,


IMHO all strain base should have a strong male gender back ground ,and select your female traits to add and build your qualities(,taste ,smell ,effects ...) ...male traits for purities of structure ..


building levels and stages of female traits make for a full balance strain ,because what you do to one side of the strains gender well effect the other over time and if the strains environment is stressed even more so ...

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day Tazz

G13 and NL #5 are not from the same genetics .
G13 Who knows what it was ? NL#5 was Affie x Hawaiian Bx .

Haze C is only one plant . Mated to different females .


Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[tazz11]

1978-79 socal 4 gen

then became chocolate thai later

you correct about the Thai back ground ... we found it has what is described as Native Thai Traits ...


good feed back is always of value ...

 

[tazz11]

G`day Tazz

G13 and NL #5 are not from the same genetics .
G13 Who knows what it was ? NL#5 was Affie x Hawaiian Bx .

Haze C is only one plant . Mated to different females .


Thanks for sharin

EB .

you do know a few Vietnamese Sativa were tested in Hawaii as were many other Sativa


this is one of the problems with breeding , clear path of genetic sequence ,.. guessing about other peoples crosses makes for poor out come ..


if the Haze C is the male then were the two female mates from the same strain or will they make two different F1 hybrids



and I agree , NL #5 has two breeders saying they made it . so what is the truth and can it be define as a starting point ..its much like haze . it was made over there . or here or by two people from here and there .. its not like Sam's work .. he made it and you can tell he did ... he also knows his strains and where they came from ..


its all interesting ,its what we do with it that matters ....




I will research this for you because I was in Hawaii 3 times from 1978-1981 .. so I know some of these strains first hand .... I did note seed finder dose not list some of the Hawaiian strains .. like Kona that came from waii kee kee beach weed that the native Hawaiians sold on the beach if they like you ...LOL .a true monster high .as tall as diamond head it self ....I did smoke it and it was a true bad A** strain as was the Maui Waui , the Kona you had to look for and was exceptional light tan color weed .


the Hawaiian Bx was listed as Afghani unknown strain so is the Affie ,, so there is no true way to know if these strain bases had Indicia in their past breeding ..as for NL #5 there were 9 as far as I remember but some say 12 ..


the stories change depending who is telling it ...I never wanted to debate those details I was OK with Nevil as a starting point ,skill vs rep .

 

[tazz11]

G`day Tazz

G13 and NL #5 are not from the same genetics .
G13 Who knows what it was ? NL#5 was Affie x Hawaiian Bx .

Haze C is only one plant . Mated to different females .


Thanks for sharin

EB .

" Haze C is only one plant . Mated to different females "


Host male x female #1 /female #2


are the females the same strain ,same gen ..? or are they two different strains .Male strain vs female strain .. it dose make a difference ...


the breeders goal would define if this was good or bad ..


this is how some good breeders get multi traits in the female gender side of one host strain ...why still protecting the qualities of the male host strain ..


I thin k of this much like a deck of cards ,... 52 cards each a trait .. mix them up put 7 cards out face down .. that's your strain .. each card defines a trait that will come up in that generation . the rest of the cards are what are locked and hidden in the back ground of each strain . some strains have 52 cards some have thousands of cards some have 7 or 20 . it matters to how full your strain is .. complex dose not always make the strain better . to much and the traits fight each other ,to little and the strain lacks qualities and stabilization ...

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day Tazz

You don`t seem to understand dominant and recessive genes ?
If its the trait is recessive and you cross it to another plant that has dominant genes for that trait . Say bye , bye to your recessive trait .

Study some Mendel and gain some more understanding re hereditary .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[tazz11]

this is why I left the web for 6 years .. I guess its time to go do some work again .. I was doing that sh** in the early 80's ... wow latter




PS I well give you points for one thing . this is the reason why many old school strains had Dominant growth traits and potency and lacked refinement , that is basic under standing and it is lost in complex hybrids ...where you may have 6 --10 dominant traits all locked with in one strain before you start to work with the under tones and taste and smell...the strain Perceiva was regressive strain ..I made that in 1997.. into world it would not be a breeder stock . the modern world wants potency, and cost .


the bong hitters could care less about smell or taste ..I see it all time at street level . I have not made street level weed in 40 years ..


my appointment book is full for the next year and 1/2 ....I would love to see my strains out there but mass produced is not my idea of good weed ...


you do know the problem with dominant strains ...?


they over power the under tunes and the strains become bland over time ...look at the SSSDH X G13 X Abducted . that's why it is design that way ..the starting base strain is the under tunes and then the potency is a over lay ...by crossing and back crossing .I can build potency and structure and reinforce the under tunes if needed...


you do know and under stand that a strain can have 2/3 of its traits hidden with in it , this is how a strain reacts to environment and stress ...it is like building a sky scrapper with a bland set of blue prints . if you can not add your own taste and needs you end up with a bland building at the end ... most breeders want to design a strain them self .. the throw away is fast and makes money .. but will not last ,,and that just why I said what did about the genetic pool ...


the point ..you can look at any great artist or even a cook and they will tell you the same thing its nice to have a plain or directions but the best artist and cooks want the choice to be theirs ...! they challenge their skills and them self's to make the best they can ,and to some it reaches far high then most will ever see or know ...the normal is only normal to the normal .. the gifted never see them self's as gifted .. they never look back ... few ever do and only the rare ones can ....


the true breeder has no reason to care about cost or profits ,you will only see him in his work ...you can read everything ever wrote about cannabis and when your done 50 years from now it will still come down to the same thing .. books are for learning debate not for the grow room ..you can read every book you can find but when you step threw that door you better already know it ...