1969 Mekong Delta strain

[Dog Star]

Sorry to hear Tazz..

now you get that we joke with you cause you never show pics of your work..

and you talk-- i made this,i made that.. but again there is no proper proove of your
work..

Dont be pissed and made this thread shine and good documented and then no body
will joke with you... otherway people get you are not serious and you know people..

then they start to tease..

 

[pinkus]

LMFAO... what happened to the breeding scheme you had laid out... did you realize that we could look at the time frame and add it up that it's all Bull Shize?

 

[tazz11]

Sorry to hear Tazz..

now you get that we joke with you cause you never show pics of your work..

and you talk-- i made this,i made that.. but again there is no proper proove of your
work..

Dont be pissed and made this thread shine and good documented and then no body
will joke with you... otherway people get you are not serious and you know people..

then they start to tease..

no, your right I started on the cannabis edge in June of 1998


back when standing up for what you believe was no joke .... I am to Old school for this modern site ... I got things to do


stay safe stay free

 

[Dog Star]

I wish to see female Abducted with Fukushima effects...

you remember those weird flowers you showed once,still asking myself
wtf was that...??

 

[Donald Mallard]

are research has found some info that is interesting ..most of the strains for the Mekong Delta area and the river and Lao and Cambodia areas range from 10 - 16 weeks flowering time ,.

this confirms one of the facts told to me about the strain base , it was a isolated patch of 20-25 plants growing wild in the jungle ,they had not seen any like them in the 4 years he had been there ,he never saw any more the rest of the time he was there ,he said they found a few patches of normal sativa here and there but destroyed them as the found them ...

the reason this is interesting . is the Original haze has had to have a unknown strain with a high THC and long flowering time very much like the Abducted strain base , but as far as we can tell at this point the strain is totally unique & unknown ...

if this holds true then Abducted is mostly likely the father of Vietnamese Black , how ? they were down wind from the strain Abducted , and Abducted is the stronger of the two strain bases ...

and this confirms the Delta zonker detail in part . because where he said they came from is down wind from the area Abducted was found , so Abducted male pollen would cover to the south east of the lower delta area ...in fact in the case of a typhoon winds blowing the opposite direction it the Abducted strain base could be the isolated rare father of most of the strains with in say 60 -125 miles of its location ..

how far can male cannabis pollen travel in the winds ...???

I found the answer to that question :

I asked Canada-based international hemp agriculture consultant Anndrea Hermann for more information. “According to pedigree hemp production regulation in Canada, a range up to 5,000 meters (3 miles) are required for isolation between different pedigree and different cultivars,” Hermann said.
Hemp is pollinated primarily by wind. Hermann said most pollen travels about 100 yards. But depending on the weight and size of pollen and other natural conditions, wind-borne pollen can travel for miles, up to 2,000 miles away from the source. Hermann states, if the wind blow towards the marijuana plants, the hemp pollen will find the plants because the male pollen wants to pollinate the females. This is Cannabis Sex 101..

that's crazy this could tell us why the old strains were so strong and then vanished ... the father strain base was destroyed and taken to a new area where there were no other cannabis plants ...the U.S.A............ lol

it could have pollenated in both directions north west and south east for as much as 2000 miles , the typhoon weather patterns cut across the Philippines and drive inland 400-600 miles in that same area . you could be looking at the father strain of cannabis , see it pollenates every strain for 2000 miles in both direction and they move along the trade routes to the birth place of all cannabis..., India and the meddle east ..

its off spring & seeds could have been traded along the spices trade routes ...

that doesnt tend to happen in the tropics ,
sure in desert climates ,
but in high humidity climates with jungle and mountainous terrain,
the pollen isnt going too far ,, specially not thousands of miles , it really doesnt travel very far in the tropics ...

 

[tazz11]

that doesnt tend to happen in the tropics ,
sure in desert climates ,
but in high humidity climates with jungle and mountainous terrain,
the pollen isnt going too far ,, specially not thousands of miles , it really doesnt travel very far in the tropics ...

I fully agree in most cases it dose go far . but in this case trade winds from the mountains fall down the face and flow to the coastal waters much the same was as tide waves ...and this dose bring up a few questions about the native Thai trait found in the back ground of this strain , are they human selected some where in its past or open pollination some how ...
under normal conditions and environment it could define this strain as a land race unto it self . it may have traits that share the same common factors as the Native Thai but in fact may not be related at all ...just the fact the Thai trait was gender male related but change from a male gender to all out making female flowers is something I have not seen in a modern hermaphrodites .


so I do agree with what your saying with the odds the Thai traits maybe environmental and not cross pollinated ...I also noted that where it comes from is only about 70 miles east of where one account stated another Vietnamese strain came from is some what related in traits but yet not the same as well ... we have no idea if these strain were washed down river and ended up becoming land race unto them self's ...

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day Tazz

Kampuchea aka Cambodia and Laos are closer to the Mekong Delta than Thailand .


Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Donald Mallard]

Glimpses into the past via cannabis plants are pretty special i think too tazz ,

knowing man and how he operates ,, id think most of the pot around those areas is probably related at some point ,, seed sharing began a long time ago , trading for other seed or goods ..

anyhow , while the pollen wouldn't travel too far usually,
im sure any seed swept into the creeks and rivers that washed up on the banks later sure helped spread things also ....

hopefully some of the testing that can be done now will shed some light on the things we can only speculate on for now ...

 

[tazz11]

G`day Tazz

Kampuchea aka Cambodia and Laos are closer to the Mekong Delta than Thailand .


Thanks for sharin

EB .

you are very correct . I spent 3 weeks in Thailand checking out some old school Thai fields and watch them make Thai stick the old way , with bamboo stalks , a lot of people get the wrong idea about what native Thai is vs modern Thai ..I saw a write up about native ,I agree with the old school Thai had gender related problems I don't know if that was a side effect of land race in that location or some other reason . but as I pointed out the Abducted had the same gender flaws in the male gender...something I have never seen before at that level ...you know its funny you say that because when I was there in Thailand I was north of Bangkok but I never herd of anyone talk of weed from there and those places are close by ...as Asia goes
makes me wonder if that's why the Vietnamese strains are so rare, the war did more damage then good , my older brother did 3 dances there . and he said some times they would destroy 10 - 15 crops a week ...some of the guys were starting to think it was going over the top ... passing seeds and trading them to get guys to send them back home before they vanished for good


I got to add . back then even in the late 1970's early 1980's native Thai stick was being made basically as a why to sell Asia's tar opium , the Thai as a strain was numbing but nothing hybrid like todays weeds are .. in fact I would say it was one of the few that was out side the main stream of great legendary strain of the past ..you always hear of opium dip Thai stick . but in fact the real good stuff was done the bamboo and was not dipped at all ...they would sling the opium mix with hot water they heated in the sun in those bamboo sticks .and it often took hours to layer the opium till it got thick enough ..I think that maybe the reason it kicked a** ,,,the skill level of those native field workers was amazing to watch ...they would cut up these huge pineapples and take their brakes eating . it was the best time of my life and I enjoyed every second of it ...I still don't know if it was the best pineapple in the world or the heat was getting to me but it was fun as hell ...lol

 

[tazz11]

I would like to add a result for the Abducted hybrid ...


we did notice that the true Vietnamese Sativa traits do pass into the hybrid cross in the first 2 weeks 1 or 2 seedlings showed male gender at very early seedling stages, it is a ratio of 1 or 2 out of 100.. but interesting ..


we will not be deleting them ,they are selected for the open pollination traits , it only stands to debate if they have a stronger past gender back ground with the host strain .we are still working out how this trait would reflect on a true land race ...


as we work with the hybrid we also noticed its the male gender that controls the stability of these rare land race strains .IMHO if you don't keep a male of this strain you don't have the strain ...both prime host and hybrid have this trait...this is most likely a trait of environmental evolution ,and we believe its why the strain changes so fast when its placed in a different environment ...I would say it is environmental sensitive...the host strain could not live out of its environment yet when hybrid it only mated with a haze Sativa back ground cross , this tells us in this case that area of land race are isolated to their own environments ...


and most likely had been there a very long time , IMHO it was there before the Younger Dryas , that would explain its odd trait to sub zero weather temps ...you are most likely looking at a strain that is beyond c.15,000 years old .


the theory is simple . the only time that those types of temps could have seen the isolated strain base is the Younger Dryas , it only lasted 1300 years ..between c.11,600 - c.12,900 .


with this rare strains ability to adapt to new environments it is easy to see how it could have lived threw the small ice age ...


I know ,this sounds crazy but if it was on the edge of the Younger Dryas it would explain why this strain has different traits then most other strains .. who knows ,as a hybrid the strain I am protecting those traits ...IMHO the only way to protect a strain like this is to hybrid it and still protect its traits ..at this point we have 5 hybrids....and the hybrid is stable to its new environment ..I have a friend working with a few mothers ....but few are ready to grow these rare Vietnamese Sativa ...

 

[tazz11]

hot day out ...


I took note of the (SSSDH X G13 X ATF 2 gen clone ) dose show this sativa trait and did not before it was hybrid to this strain ..


at 4 inches high it is making viable pollen .. I don't know why but testing the cross will take dozens of skilled smokers ...lol


I will try to add a pic soon ...all these 5 hybrids are the breeding base stock for med weed strains ...

 

[tazz11]

a few days ago we had a very real debate about the gene pole ..


now IMHO I stated there should be a isolated breeders think tank to keep and control rare strains ,out side the effects of selling seeds or weed products .. just for the art of preservation of these strains ..


my point is simple ... one mistake and strains like this would be lost in confusion ...4 years of stabilizing this strain is a good example of what I am talking about ...the avg grower would be tested at ever stage of growth from start to finish .... talk about a crash course !


as we set here talking about this , dozens of rare strains world wide are lost every day .. we put our hope in the seed banks and that did not work as well as we had hoped ...they some time have to do what big companies have to do .. profits vs time spent ..


some seed companies do the best they can to show quality and good skills ,others don't .


just something to think about if you like getting high ...

 

[tazz11]

here is one of the 5 hybrids .. (SSSDH X G13 X Abducted F1 ) X ( ATF #2 pheno )


this cross is funny from the normal cross the dominate strain here is the Abducted ..ya I know ,that's not how this normally works ... but when we add the cross to the ATF #2 ,then strain has a higher ratio of male plants and in this case producing pollen in 2 weeks at 4 inches high...


I must of been stoned . I labeled it (AFT #2 ) now the base strain was Sagarmatha ATF grown out and two pheno were isolated , the second #2 pheno was taller and had a nice creeper high .we selected this ATF strain base because it is a strong strain ,it will be interesting to see what this smoke turns out like , the Abducted is already one of the best creepers I have ever seen but this test is for the ATF not the Abducted .. will it keep its own traits or will it give way to the Abducted hybrid as it already looks that way ...
so far what we are seeing in the hybrids is .. Abducted dominance but at gender level , so this land race has strong gender traits . be it male over female ... yes that's what I said the I believe that's what makes the Vietnamese Sativa different in the more isolated land race strains ...


we are waiting to see how the male gender traits reacts in the F2's for this reason ... vs those of the Abducted backcross , this is the way I set the test up so they would grow out side by side , ratio of male to female and early pollination males vs normal male traits , this test should give us a much better under standing of how this land race developed over thousands of years vs . modern crosses .. so far the two differences are ... male gender traits and environmental adapt ability traits ..


I have seen other land race but not at this level of isolation or this old of a strain base ...the cross strains were not selected at random .. each strain has a set of define traits that we can compare with the Abducted as the strains develop ...the goal is super strain med weeds ...each very different from the others with one common Vietnamese Sativa host strain .

 

[rykus]

One of my Timewarp seeds is doing that, kinda cool, mines just one ball, lol....


Have you seen if the potency is dominant or gets lost quick?

Cool project

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day Tazz

Some Melanesian herb .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[tazz11]

One of my Timewarp seeds is doing that, kinda cool, mines just one ball, lol....


Have you seen if the potency is dominant or gets lost quick?

Cool project

the potency is full scale and we will smoke the males to compare their potency as well ... I think of this trait much like auto flowering in nature .. I am not sure why it dose it but it is cool .. as a pure Abducted flowered male pollen then turn back to a full flowering female .. now that was crazy to watch . but now it see it has some hidden triggers that gender related ...potency has never been a issue with the Abducted strain base ,, we even looked at potency of cross strain to make sure they were not to strong for med weeds ...we select for long lasting deep inner body high with the slow creeper and no upper end ...so far we have had no loss of potency at all in fact the high is of the best quality ...with the hybrids under tone to sweeten the taste and smell ...

 

[tazz11]

G`day Tazz

Some Melanesian herb .
View Image

Thanks for sharin

EB .

thanks for sharing .... your grow looks like my back yard in Subic bay ,I love the Sativa ... nice grow Elmer Bud ...I believe its the feelings a breeder puts into a strain that gives them the best chance to reach the best qualities ..

 

[Dog Star]

Its not Elmer grow,

thanx for showing those pic young male..


Regards Tazz

DS

 

[tazz11]

I got some testing to do .. maybe I can add a few pics latter ...

 

[tazz11]

we have a few chances to get it right at this stage of breeding ..short and long write up...




short write . F2 hybrid X Abducted Backcross hybrid




what's in it ?


long write up.
(SSSDH X G13 X Abducted F1) X (SSSDH X G13 X Abducted F1)
triple strain backcross F2's ..Hybrids .


now note these F2's Hybrids are a little different then most . they have both genders of the host strain and the cross ...yes these are open end backcross ,selected male to selected prime female .


the next to sets get a little complex ..


Abducted backcross Hybrid F1's (Ab Backcross H )


(SSSDH X G13 X Abducted F1) X ( Abducted Prime Female F1)
Abducted Backcross hybrid with both Abducted genders selected in one strain base ..


the Abducted prime female is the pure host strain .


this next stage is


(SSSDH X G13 X Abducted F1 ) X ( Abducted Prime female F1)
X (SSSDH X G13 X Abducted F1 )X (Abducted Prime female F1 /Male)


this IMHO is the only true way to produce a near pure stable Host strain .


note both the SSSDH X G13 and the Abducted strain have both genders selected


this takes male pollen threw 4 selected generation forward ..


as well as building a hybrid to cross with the origin host. note the (SSSDH X G13 X Abducted F1) male pollen is still being kept for this next stage ...for purity and quality one strain for under tones ...or one mix hybrid in this case .


so if you look close . you can see the hybrid vs the Abducted F1 prime female ,then mated to the hybrid with the Prime female strains /Male gender ,so in fact this backcross has both genders of the Abducted Prime Female host strain base ..this is a full cube with a open ended cube inside of it ...and it is a triple backcross .


your going to ask how is it a triple .. look close the Abducted Prime female was F1 and the Abducted Prime female / male is also a F1 but with the other side of the gender isolated to it self ..so when the (SSSD X G13 X Abducted F2) X (SSSDH X G13 X Abducted Prime Female vs male makes this two totally different strain base , one being female dominant/ the other being male dominant ... a first generation hybrid vs a second generation hybrid of the opposed genders of one host strain base.


this takes a lot of work and time , 4 years ...lol


see this is IMHO the best way to improve purities and qualities of a rare strain vs the genders with in a rare strain.


by the host female open end backcross we make the female of the host strain more pure and stable and isolated the male gender of the host from the same generation to Hybrid backcross cube it 4 generations latter . in this way you can mate F1 female with F1 male and they are 2 different hybrid strains from the same host ...with each generation each gender becomes its own hybrid and the controlled crossing and back cross defines the genders by isolating the genders from one generation to the next ..


in this way you can control the under tone hybrid (in this case SSSDH X G13) by crossing it with the dominate host .
this gives the breeder control over the host strain genders ...


you could tell your self they are both one host strain but you would be wrong . the male hybrid has 25-35 % higher numbers of male seedlings and odd hermaphrodites traits , this is the problem with native Thai and some rare Sativa ...this is the only way I have found to control the traits and still keep the pure rare strain ...


in some rare cases the only chance you may get to isolate a rare strain is hybrid crossing and back crossing vs open ended and cubing using this to controlling its isolated genders .


by producing 7 hybrids we can control the best traits and the purity and quality of the host strain base and make a other wise un stable and un-control able strain a value to may IBL strains . I believe this is what made PR, NL ,haze and skunk #1 stand out as super strains , it also shows us how easy it is for a rare strain to drift with out a breeder to in plant gender controls into a strain base ...


OK ask your self the simple facts


what made PR what it was . the environment .. no .. the Land race it was made from .. Yes !


see your environment controls the drift , the more stable your environment from cycle to cycle over long time span defines the drift rates of your strains .. the host genetics should be backcrossed in house to control that drifting ... if you don't when you make seed the drift will be even worse ..


IMHO it takes nothing less then 4-5 years to isolate a rare strain base and in rare cases the only way you might be able to isolate it is threw the genders controlled by back crossing and hybrids.you not be able to isolate a pure strain base but you may get the chance to keep traits from a rare land race and breed them into a selected hybrids ...