150w HPS Club and Resource Guide......

[DiscoBiscuit]

Chefy, is that a giant chunk o hash yer hiding behind?

 

[catman]

For all u 150w user, do u veg your plant under 150w also?....Or do u guys not veg at all and just go straight to 12/12 after the clone is rooted? Thanks.

The 150w HPS is just fine for vegging. I've only turned to CFLs when the HPS is flowering and they work great as well.

For moms a single 23w CFL was enough for me to keep alive what later would provide at least 50 clones. It is true that the blue spectrum is better for veg, but it isn't worth running to the store to change your bulb immediately.

Vertical CFLs work great for vegging as well. A higher wattage CFL can be used to speed things up when needed or to just keep them nodes tight. Or.. keep them as small as possible, which was my goal.

28in H, 23in L, 16in D

This is 28.5in H, 16in L, 18inD. The plants are recovering from topping and being nitrogen deprived to keep the stretch down. The other important thing you will want to try and do is keep the day and night temperatures as close as possible. If your ambient temp change throughout the day, run the light when it is the coldest. You will learn to use the size of a your plant containers to control to the stretch, the rapid growth during the first weeks of flower as well.

Like they say though, timing is everything. There are no laws of botany that say a plant is ready to be flowered after X number of days and it can't be said enough that strains greatly vary in the type of treatment given. In small 16oz party cups, I've topped plants early in veg while they were under 4'' tall-to later have plants that end up being chopped at 14'' while others are over 3 feet. Being aware of the status of the root system in a vegging plant is very important. What I try and do to simply all of this for myself personally is I notice a period of days where the plant doesn't seem to grow much. From having transparent containers, one can see the roots seem to take a priority. Once you the root mass is where I want it, that is when I make a decision to flower it and for some strains I flower them early as possible while others I can keep vegging under a CFL while the others replace what I would take out of the cab.

8 plants in there would be pure insanity! Unless they are autoflowering, and even then it would be crowded. Your number one limitation in my opinion is your height. If the cab height is 28 inches, that hood must be taking up a minimum of 6, plus 6 or 7 for the pots. That leaves only 16 inches of height at best.

I disagree that it couldn't be down and that 8 plants for a 150w is extreme. I do agree height is his biggest limitation while using the hood which he should not do. 28inches vertical is more than enough to flower normal strains under a horizontal bulb.

3.5" inch "pots" here.

No way you could pull off a SOG of anything other than autoflowering plants without a huge hassle.

Now...you are right about that, but some of us are after a bit of a hassle if it means more fruit :]

But if you try to flower out 8 plants in there, you will probably get the same amount of bud as if you did 4 due to all the competition for light. I did 8 Diesel Ryders (autoflower) in a minifridge with a 31" height and had plenty of room, but they were packed wall to wall and I only had to bend one over. If I had to bend any others, so many buds would not have been receiving nearly enough light.

With more plants one can run different strains. One can yield higher more consistently and over all higher all together undermost peoples biggest constraint which is physical space with more plant numbers. SCroGs work and I haven't done one, but they look like a lot of hassle as well with more risk. One can also experiment flowering clones at different heights or preforming other forms of training or feedings. A bonus is having lots of top colas.

These plants here are in 16oz cups, were flowered too soon, and at chop where no more than 18'' tall. None of these were auto flower seeds.

Look at all that wasted space in the cab in contrast to nearly over-doing it.

I had to latter bend these over against the walls and I did it in a manner that didn't compact any buds which could have been a risk for mold. They didn't seem to mind so much. It was a hassle, but it was my mistake. This may look out of control and messy (and it is, lol), but the bottom line is I still think it is easier at doing what SCROG can ultimately can accomplish and even better while being easier. Aesthetically, a SCROG may look better and to each his own.

 

[GrowBox420]

Wow gotta love this 150w thread good shit thanks catman

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Yep, great post catman. I just finished a scrog. Now my sog is supercrop city, out of control, trying to hump the ceiling and lamp, lol. I always get em an inch or two too tall.

I've got 15 half-gallon soda bottles under one lamp. 7.5 gallons of mix might be overkill, ya think?

I may have to go with party cups (next time) to keep these girls from growing through the roof.

 

[HobbyGrower]

congrats

Thanks!

 

[KolorBlind]

I disagree that it couldn't be down and that 8 plants for a 150w is extreme. I do agree height is his biggest limitation while using the hood which he should not do. 28inches vertical is more than enough to flower normal strains under a horizontal bulb.

Well, I never said 8 plants was extreme for a 150, just for his height limitation. Sure you could do 8 small plants in small containers and do 12/12 from clone or seed, but if you veg 4 plants for longer and use LST or scrog you will get much more, and much more dense bud imo. Maybe not, and 8 plants is surely possible, I just hate to see people getting less than a quarter per plant unless they are running 100+

I definitely have full respect for the power and possibility a 150w bulb provides. Right now I am using one in my closet for the first month of flower on 9 Bubbleicious! Talk about stretching the limit! I have a veg cab with two 42w CFLs for rooting & 1 week veg, then all 9 go under a 150w HPS for one month before finishing their last month under a 250w HPS. Its a perfect perpetual with a harvest every 30 days. So far I have been able to pull 30+ grams off each BL plant using 1gal grow bags. I have since switched to 1.5gal hempy buckets so well see if I can near 1.5gpw on my 250

Oh and by the way, damn good to see ya Catman, been a while!
KB

 

[MagicChef]

Chefy, is that a giant chunk o hash yer hiding behind?
__________________
DB,
Not hash, 2lb's compressed WW

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

well done!

 

[basspirate]

I like the sound of your setup kolorblind!! I was just inquiring about bubblicious in another thread- I take it you are pleased? Got any flower pics?

Cheers!

 

[GrowBox420]

Cheezy...

Cheezy...

 

[big twinn]

Can anyone send me links to where to purchase the best 150w HPS cool tubed...my box is 31in tall 22 inches wide and 20in deep...i will have a 55w Pll on each of the four wall sides...
i need recommendations and links where to buy:
best 150watt HPS for my dimensions
cooltube/aircooled system and fan recommendations and links...what ever will push through a carbon filter move a good bit of air and is Quiet!
thanks my cab looks like this as of right now=)

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Can anyone send me links to where to purchase the best 150w HPS cool tubed...my box is 31in tall 22 inches wide and 20in deep...i will have a 55w Pll on each of the four wall sides...
i need recommendations and links where to buy:
best 150watt HPS for my dimensions
cooltube/aircooled system and fan recommendations and links...what ever will push through a carbon filter move a good bit of air and is Quiet!
thanks my cab looks like this as of right now=)

That's a nice cabinet, big twinn.

Before you get started, lets take a look at everything you'd have:

Firstly, a 150HPS bulb doesn't generate heat like larger bulbs. Larger bulbs have honkin' fans that move much more air (and probably run cooler with a tube.)

You'll have a much smaller fan. Your grow area won't operate any cooler with a tube. You'll get burn protection if nothing else. A PC fan blowing directly on a bare bulb might run cooler than a tube setup!

Indoor growing (general rule of thumb) suggests 50 watts HID per square foot of growing space. Your cab footprint is 3.05 square feet. A 150w HPS lamp would fit the bill by itself. You would need no more than 100cfm exhaust fan.

I've yet to see a manufactured 150 lamp with tube. Most around here are homemade. You could check htgsupply.com, they've got a remote-ballast 150. Ask how long their tube is before you buy it. If it's 2 feet long, it won't fit your cab.

150w HPS + 4 x 55w PL-L = 120+ watts of HID per square foot.
You'd have considerable heat in this setup. You might need a 250 CFM fan to cool all that heat. IMO, stealth would be out of the question. Even if the cab was out of sight, the noise would give you away.

Do you mind if I make a suggestion?

You have close to a "square" footprint. A vertical 150 has several advantages. You can grow 360 degrees around the bulb as opposed to half that. You don't have to buy a hood or tube. Even large setups are going vertical as growers recognize the advantages.

Catman has a great vertical setup and might tip you on what to expect.

Supplemental lighting is only as good as the air-system it operates within. A 150HPS has to be within inches of the canopy to be efficient. If your air system handles the supplemental heat from PL-Ls, you're fine. Not necessarily quiet. If supplementals force you to back away from the light, you're working against efficiency of the 150.

BC Chronic has a great setup with supplemental lighting. Check him out and see what he thinks.

You mentioned pushing air through a scrubber. Sounds like you want to mount your fan and scrubber outside the cab. You'll need a beefy fan to push. Pushing through a scrubber might gain air-flow "muffler" qualities. But the fan itself will be louder than if it's mounted inside the cab.

Kolorblind has a great mini-fridge with external fan/scrubber. He might lend what to expect with this type setup. (He's got the S&P fan, it's pretty quiet.)

 

[big twinn]

awesome post...thanks for your help...im going to try and mount the fan and scrubber inside the cab if room permits..here is something also to consider that im not sure how much factors in..31in x 22in x 20in = 2.58ft x 1.83ft x 1.67ft...which equals 7.89cubic feet...volumetrically. if i have 1 PLL on each wall vertically that means 1 55w bulb is shining on the wall opposite to it (2.58ft x 1.67ft) so its not like 220watts are all shining on one 3 square foot canopy...the light is distributed due to the 360 degree vertical arrangement. the top however will need some lighting...would a 150watt hps really be overkill given all this????

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

big twinn, I understand your sound logic. It wouldn't be a single, direct hot-spot like a single bulb setup would.

Part of the air-system's job is to maximize efficiency, allowing you to minimize the distance between bulb and canopy. If additional bulbs cause efficiency to wane, you're paying for that efficiency in additional $$. Sorry to sound anal. Supp lighting is great but only if it can operate within the same, efficient envelope.

Check the inverse square law of lighting to see what I'm hinting at.

PL-Ls are bad ass. ahsupply.com has kits available. These kits include reflectors that will increase lux. These reflectors will also increase lumen efficiency. You could mount them in the corners (better light distribution.) They're narrow enough to not interfere with the door through-way! AH Supply even has kits short enough to consider as ceiling lamp(s).

Did I mention ScrubNinja? He's the PL-L guru, might lend an opinion on HPS vs PL-L as ceiling light.

I think you're gonna have a fine setup when you get it all planned and carried out.

BTW, if you're not sold on PL-L, a vertical 150 in that box would be bad ass too.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

big twinn, 4 55 watt pl-ls in that space is pushing your heat efficiency if audible stealth is needed. ahsupply has 30 or 35 watt kits that would allow you to reduce the wall light and afford more ceiling light capacity (from your stealthy air-system's perspective.)

If you haven't already, check out ahsupply.com. ScrubNinja might recommend a particular combination if you're interested. He's a PL-L scholar and gentleman.

Fan and scrubber - you'll sacrifice headroom or grow space if you mount inside. You might consider an S & P inline-fan and scrubber mounted on the back wall (outside) the cab. S&Ps are pretty quiet. Again, KolorBlind is the man with direct knowledge here. Best wishes.

 

[big twinn]

thanks for the input..i have the PLLs already from my last cab, so its as simple as switching them from the last cab to this one...how large should my intake holes be and how large should my exhaust be to properly cool. any links to fan(s) recommended?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Generally, intake should be 2x the exhaust size. Example, if you have a 4" fan you'd need two 4" holes for intake. If you're going to cut a single intake (hole, square or rectangle) you'll need 12.56 x 2 or ~25 square inches of intake. A 6" x 4" rectangle would be close enough.

If you want to add a scrubber, I'd expect you need ~100cfm at this point. Adding a ceiling light will depend on how big it is, in addition to your ambient temps. If you still want to put a fan and scrubber inside the cab, you'll have to consider how big they are and how much room they'll take from your grow space.

Panasonic Whisper "fart" fans are the quietest. They're pretty big though. S&P is also relatively quiet. Either one of these will cost ~$100.

You'll get better stealth if you incorporate a rotary speed controller. Reducing the fan speed won't move as much air so don't under size the fan.

My best guess (with a ceiling lamp, scrubber and speed controller) you'll need ~150cfm. Feel free to get second opinions. I'm basing my guess on the fact I cool one 150HPS and three 26-watt CFLs in veg with 95cfm, scrubber and speed controller on low. My cab usually operates within 6 degrees f above ambient and is pretty darn quiet.


One route might be a server console fan. These are 6" to 8" diameter 120vac axial fans, much beefier than a 12v pc fan. They're not that thick and you could mount a short can on it to save space. These fans are available on ebay for ~$20, maybe less. Ebay used to have a dealer selling these server-fan/scrubber combos but I couldn't find a link. You can still get a fan in the computer section and make a scrubber. Check my album for the short scrubber I made out of gutter guards, lol. I call it my gutter trash filter, it's a gas. It's an upgrade from an old, mesh pencil-can scrubber and makes a big difference. The old pencil can is shown in the pics, the upgrade has much more carbon and surface area.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=12723

The text is in the general grow thread aka "biscuit box".

 

[StupidBoy]

Panasonic Whisper "fart" fans are the quietest. They're pretty big though. S&P is also relatively quiet. You'll get better stealth if you incorporate a rotary speed controller. Reducing the fan speed won't move as much air so don't under size the fan. Either one of these will cost ~$100

I need some advice on speed controllers. What to get and how to install please.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Hey, SB. For the record, light dimmers and speed controllers are two different animals. Make sure you get a compatible motor speed-controller based on your motor type.

Here's a router (motor) speed controller for $20. I assume it's plug n play:

It says: Works with any universal AC/DC brush-type motor, 15 amps and under - Won't work on slow-start motors
http://www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html

You're not likely to use a slow-start motor. Still check that motor and controller are compatible, even if you have to call the mfg tech.

Here's the one I use. It says it works for "all motors". (I know it's compatible with my Hydrofarm blower, lol.) It's plug n play for $18.80
http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5SA-4008

Hope this helps.



Maybe Pipedream will tell us if we can or can't use a variable autotransformer like a Variac ~$50. Some growers say a Variac won't cause motor hum like the rheostat examples above. Other growers say not to use Variac, it's for special voltage applications, not fan-motor speed control.

 

[big twinn]

hmmm so which kit would be best/easiest/most cost efficient to convert to DIY cool-tube found in the link in my OP??