150w HPS Club and Resource Guide......

[ReeferDan]

Time To Join The CLUB!!!

Time To Join The CLUB!!!

So as I near the end of my first "red greenery style" rubbermaid tub grow, i realize the mistakes made, corners cut, and improvements needed. Since i pretty much slapped the tubs together really quick to just get it done, and the consequences of doing suck, i realize the importance of really putting my time and thought into my next grow, so that i can do it once, do it right, and make it so it lasts me a good while.

So, its time for me to join the 150w hps club. I thought i was going to make a bigger rubbermaid grow, and remembered all the PIA's with dealing with those tubs, and then moved on to wanting to make a NGB box with a sincle 150w hps. Which leads to two nights ago, when i was driving down the street and i saw two identical cupbards with a "free" sign on them. SCORE! now i wont have to buy much wood!!

The cupboards measure 11" deep 29" wide and 28" tall. If i remove the back from both of them i can easially attach them together and have doors to access both sides of the grow. Combined dimensions would be 22" deep 29" wide and 28" tall. This would give me 4.4 sq/ft of growing space. I planned to do dual cool tube 150w hps lights in there to give me 68w sq/ft.
The cool tube design was going to be copied from Lemons design using the pyrex "bake around" tubes. Seen Here http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=62161

I have plans on how to do the intake, and somewhat of how to to the exhaust, but i have some questions to ask the seasoned vets.

Which way should i face my lights if doing a cool tube. SHould i have one in each cupboard? (going horizontally across the 29" width) or should i put them parallel going through both cupboards across the 22" depth?

Im not great at figureing out how much exhaust i need? I was thinking of a 4" fan or maybe converting a stanley blower, but how many cfm will i need to keep both lights cool along with the cab?
I planned to have both cool tubes pull the air in, over the lights, and have a 90* bend going up and out of the cab. Then they would meet a "T" connector and into the fan/blower/squirrel cage. From there the air would go out a carbon filter.
Im just confused as to what size/cfm fan/blower i would need? And what coorisponding filter i would need?


Does this sound like a good plan so far? My intake plans were going to be 4-5 2" holes on the bottom of each cupboard with 2 90* pvc bends in each hole for light proofing.


Seeing as this is my first cabined construction, and i have a lot of questions, please feel free to throw any helpful hints or suggestions my way. Any and all help is very much appreciated.
I'm going to try my best to get some pictures of the cupboards so that you guys can better understand what im trying to do here.

 

[ReeferDan]

There are a couple more questions i forgot to ask that i remembered on the way home.

Ok so i was figuring out my growing space, and how much i'll be able to grow in the cab. Id like to yield at least 4oz every grow, hopefully get up to 6oz.
With the space that i have, i measured some 1gal containers that i have in my yard, i can fit 3of them across the 22" and 4 across the 29", should i pack 12 clones in there and flower them right away? The pots are 7" tall and have a 7" diameter, i could SOG 12 indica plants in there and prune to achieve 12 donkey dick colas, or i could SCrog less plants in larger containers. Which would be better?
Figuring the 1 gal containers are 7" tall, and the cool tube will be 4" from the top of the cab, that leaves me 18" of vertical growth. Which would be more benificial, SOG or SCROG? If i were to SCROG, i'd probably need to transplant the plants into larger containers (~2gal) and those are about 10" tall, leaving me only 15" of vertical growth with less # of plants.


Sorry for all the questions, im trying to figure out my options. Like i said above, id like to have a gameplan for growing and build my box around my gameplan so all will come together well and the yields will represent my thoughts and planning. Id like to design this box once, buy quality parts, and not have to mess with it again. I'd also like to go a little overkill with the exhaust fan, so consider that with my above questions.

Thanks again for any help!!!
ReeferDan

 

[green_grow]

i'll just tackle the fan question ...

you have approx. 10 cu. ft. of cabinet to ventilate. if i remember correctly, the rule is to exchange the air in the grow space once every minute, thus, a 10cf cabinet requires a 10cfm fan ... however, cfm's are not the only issue . you are going though a 90 degree bend, then a tee, then a filter, so you are going to need a fan with some power . those little computer fans move way more than 10 cfm but dont have the power to pull it through bends and filters . i just messed around with whatever fans i could get my hands on cheaply until i found a setup that works in my cab. i am a tightwad though, you may want to spend some money and get a nice inline fan . nobody ever regretted buying quality.

 

[abirdintheair]

this is fan over kill

this is fan over kill

im using a nutone vent fan in a 6-0cu ft area, its rated at 50cfm and only cost 12 bucks, its way over kill for my use but ill have no heat issues in my small space.

 

[ReeferDan]

Like i said, i'd like to do it right and do it once, so that my cab will last more than 1 harvest without many changes needing to be made.

So your standard 4" squirrel cage fan or inline 200+cfm should work fine? Is overkill bad? WOuld it hurt anything? I dont mind spending the $120-$170 on the fan if i'll never have to touch it again. And like said above... it has to pull air through a bunch of 90*'s and a T fitting and then push that out a carbon filter...

IF i do get a nice big fan, what CFM filter should i get? Or does it just matter what size it is (inlet and length)?


Im also still torn between which way i should run the lights. Someone please chime in with some thoughts on this...
Should i run the lights along the 22" depth, or should i run them along the 29" width? Which would give me better light coverage? Does it not matter and my reflector is the key here? I was planning to run cool tubes and no reflectors, just a white roof... maybe some aluminum tape along the top 80* of the circle of the bake around tube.


Thanks for your help thus far.

 

[floppy]

im going to join the 150W club, but after reading all the info, about some ballasts using more power & amps than other ballasts, im struggling to find a "venture" ballast kit in the uk?

can anyone point me in the right direction?

i have my cooltube on the way, so wanting to get the rest ordered & on the way, ASAP.

thanks in advanced..

 

[sugabear_II]

reeferdan

lights should be oriented perpindicular to the long side of the cabinet. In other words run them down the 22" depth. see the picture below of my cabinet which is 15" deep and 29" wide inside and how the bulb is oriented.


if you get a nice inline for the amount you're willing to spend. Check out fantechs at a plumbing or HV/AC supply place.

I put a 94 cfm Can 2600 filter on my cabinet and it has controled odors for almost 2 years solid now. It was around $50.

I used the next size up can 9000 which is 118cfm on my 400 watt wardrobe cabinet with a 265cfm dayton blower.

-suga

 

[sugabear_II]

im going to join the 150W club, but after reading all the info, about some ballasts using more power & amps than other ballasts, im struggling to find a "venture" ballast kit in the uk?

can anyone point me in the right direction?

i have my cooltube on the way, so wanting to get the rest ordered & on the way, ASAP.

thanks in advanced..

hey floppy - welcome to the club - I think you're the first one from the UK in a while to stop by. There is a link to a place on the first page of this thread for the ventures - not sure if they'll ship to the uk. You may want to find a hardware store and check for security lamps - I got my 150 as a flood lamp at lowes - not sure if you have those in the uk.

-suga

 

[ReeferDan]

thanks suga! just the advice i was looking for.

A couple more questions...
Are venture ballasts that much more worth it in the energy saving department? How much more money would it cost me to run a normal e-conolight 150w hps as opposed to the businesslights.com venture ballast? ON average, how much does 1 150w hps cost to use per month? how about 2 150watters?

Pricing at e-conolight for 2 150W hps flood lamps + 1 extra bulb "just incase" is $83.55 before tax and shipping
At businesslights.com 2 150w ballast kits, 2 med base sockets, and 3 150w hps bulbs are $100.30
So if these ballasts will save me $20 on electricity then they will be worth it, but if they wont, then obviously i should go with e-conolights like most everyone here. Is there anything else needed besides the ballast kit, sockets and bulbs before i jump to conclusions?

Check out this inline fan i found at businesslights.com http://www.businesslights.com/vortex-inch-inline-fan-172-cfm-p-1443.html
ITs in my price range and seems like it would be overkill! Or just right?
THey also have carbon filters...Seen Here: http://www.businesslights.com/carbonaire-inch-carbon-filter-p-1624.html
Is that on par with a can filter you were talking about sugabear?

Thanks for the help!!

 

[tiny_rabid_bird]

reeferdan, i just made that exact same purchase at businesslights.com, except i only bought 2 bulbs. mine was $104 shipped i wish i had seen that they sold vortexes there, i might've picked one up to save on shipping.

as it stands now though, i'm gonna pick up a stanley blower from home depot and see if i can muffle it enough to be used for my stealth grow.

sugabear, why do lights need to be oriented perpendicular to the long side of the cabinet? I've been thinking that in order to fit my fan/blower in my cab without taking up too much space, i'm probably going to do cooltubes (rather than red_greenery's coolbox design i had previously planned on doing), but my plan was to run the two cooltubed lights in a line running the length of the cabinet because i'm not sure that it'd be deep enough to orient the cool-tubes perpendicular.

 

[sugabear_II]

reeferdan - First I want to make clear that there is no difference in cost of electricity whether you run capacitated or non-capacitated lamps. That is to say there is no cost savings by running the ventures as opposed to others. The reason to choose the venture over the econolight is if you are in danger of overloading the circuit because the lamps are drawing (not using) more electricity at startup than you planned for - and instead of your two 150s drawing 300 or so watts they draw 600 or more watts (again drawing - not using) and everytime the timmer clicks on you blow a breaker because it can't handle that plus whatever else is on the circuit. Again I have to say that you pay for what the lamp is using which is the same with either ballast - you just draw more electricity through the circuit. Think of it this way - the lamp is a resisiter and it takes 150 watts of electricity out of the flow through the circuit and turns it into light and some heat - now if there's no capacitor the flow through the circuit might be as high as 400watts because that's what's being drawn - if there's a capacitor it is much closer to 150 watts.

Anyways if I remember the econolights do have a pretty good power factor - it's the regent minifloods that are really bad. Check the spec sheet - the power factor should be on there - or email econolight - they'll probably be able to tell you.

If cost is your concern I would go with the $20 complete lamps that people have been posting in the last few pages - it includes a bulb and socket - all you need is a heavy duty extension cord and a female plug plus the DIY linked in my signature (converting a security lamp) and you'll be good to go.

Tiny_rabit_bird - the majority of the light comes out of the sides of the bulb - if you've ever looked at a HPS bulbs you'll see inside the outer jacket of glass is a cylinderical arc tube of quartz where the light comes out. Most of the light is generated from the sides of the tube and very little comes out the ends. That's why the vertical setups work so well as the tube is in the center of a tunnel of green and all the light goes directly to the green. All horizontal growing setups must reflect at least 1/2 of the lumens that are coming out of the top half of the arc tube - since reflection is never perfect there is a loss in efficiency as compared to the vertical setup.

So yeah more light out of the sides of the bulb so that's why you want the bulb oriented perpindicular to the long side of the cabinet as the bulb will tend to produce a rectangular footprint anyways.

But anyways with your dual cab setup it's pretty square in shape so you can probably just see what works for you.

On the SCROG vs SOG setup - I think with your height you will need to do some form of training unless growing a very low stretch strain.

I like SCROG myself as I grew hydro and lots of sativa dom strains and would never have been able to keep them under control otherwise.

An option for you to think about if you want to go SOG would be the stadium type setup with your lamps hanging vertically down the middle (like pendant lamps) and a row or two of plants on either side. Do a search on HP Stadium by NortherFarmer and you'll see a large version. see if you could do something like this. I bet with eight 1 gallon plants in two rows of 4 down the 29" side and then your 2 lamps down the middle would yield very well. Here's a diagram of what I mean. You'd have plenty of room down the middle for your ducting if you decided to stay cool tubed or you can just put a strong fan on the lamps and probably be alright




Just check out NorthernFarmers setup and see how the lights hang in the middle - same level as plants so all the lumens go directly to the buds - he rotatates the plants weekly or something and gets very close to 1 gram/watt with soilless mix and hand watering. Just think that could be close to 10 oz per harvest off of your 300 watts every two months.

just my .02 as that is what I'd do.



-suga

 

[Siddartha]

Man this forum is great, you all are so helpful! I think I may be running something very similar only in a c22 (which ever one's 48x20ish) side-by-side scroggin. I'm gonna pick some nirvana strains to try first, to make sure I have light leaks, scheduling, etc, worked out. If I'm scrogging for sure, d'ya think the ww and nl special combo pack is worth it? Some guy here wants like 30-45 bux for clones, I thought about picking up one of his clones instead, but I think I want the Nirv. Seeds. Next I wanna try SourD or c99, I hear these are good in a cab, any other suggestions?

 

[VapingBuddha]

My intake plans were going to be 4-5 2" holes on the bottom of each cupboard with 2 90* pvc bends in each hole for light proofing.

I think Green_Grow addressed this, but I just wanted to second that the more convoluted you make the airflow, the more fan and openings you'll need. For a 4" diameter exhaust, 4 x 2" diameter holes would be the equivalent, but there's a lot more edges there as well. I'd go 6-8 of those 2" holes myself, i.e. 50%-100% larger.

In my cabinet I ended up having to go back in and cut some bigger holes. I have a fairly large cabinet (2' x 3' x 6') with space for mom and drying as well as flowering and even some space to try to kill the noise from the fan as well. And the airflow thru all that stuff is pretty convoluted, certainly more than your situation. I upped my fan to 265 cfm which may have been overkill, but I only get a 3 degree increase in temps from intake to exhaust. When the doors are open, you can feel the air pretty strong 10' from the exhaust, but when I close it up, it really falls off. There is definitely a lot of load to turn all the corners.


My first 150w grow (Blue Heaven):

 

[ReeferDan]

Wow thanks for all the information!!!

Suga, so the difference between the ballasts is initial draw upon startup. I get it now. It might be a good idea for me since the house im using is OLD! I dont even have a 3-prong outlet in the room im planning to use!!! I had to use a 3-2prong adaptor. Everything in here is old so it might be a good idea... but then again, i might just go with the $20 ones so i can better afford the good fan and filter.

Also, i have followed that HP Stadium thread very closely, it seems like a great idea. So does the mini version for my cab! thanks for that idea i might have to use that!!! It frees up a couple more inches of vertical growth too! I could mix up a bunch of the MoonshineManMix and have a really easy grow...just add water and rotate 1/4 turn every watering!

If i were to use this, how could i be able to adequately cool the room? Maybe i could run vertical cool tubes? ... that would be kind of crazy and a hassle though... I think if i spaced them how you have them in the picture, then put the 4" exhaust dead in the middle of them coming up and out of the cab, it should cool them right? In all honesty, ambient temp isnt my problem here, i want good airflow so i can have the proper humidity. I didnt have any cooling problems with my rubbermaid, just somewhat lack of airflow causing high humidity.

VapingBuddha, thanks for the advice, I was thinking about all the small holes and decided to scrap the idea, I would have to have them all placed perfectly so that the pots would not cover them or anything. I'm thinking about just cutting a big hole somewhere where the plants wont block airflow and just lightproofing that.

 

[kmanislanders3]

Electrical help??

Electrical help??

I grew with a light the size of watermelon once and my electric bill went berzerk?? How much could I expect my energy bill to go up if I use a 150hps? Is it $20 here and there or $100+ a month? I want to scrog a small space in my house in a cab with a bubbler, but I don't want any big spikes in my bill? Is 150 too much or would the change be minimal...My house is 3000 sq ft if that helps? Thanks for the insight..

 

[Lemon]

I grew with a light the size of watermelon once

??? lol

Anyhow, no need to guess how much it will cost you.

1. Go find an old electric bill and find the price you're paing for electricity in $__ per kWh

2. Take the number of hours you plan to use the light per month and multiply it by 0.15

3. Take the result of step 2 and multiply it by the result of step 1. That is exactly how much it will cost.

 

[greenhead]

I grew with a light the size of watermelon once and my electric bill went berzerk?? How much could I expect my energy bill to go up if I use a 150hps? Is it $20 here and there or $100+ a month? I want to scrog a small space in my house in a cab with a bubbler, but I don't want any big spikes in my bill? Is 150 too much or would the change be minimal...My house is 3000 sq ft if that helps? Thanks for the insight..

It depends where you live, some places have double as high KWH costs than other places. A 150 HPS won't bring your bill that much up though. I live in an area where the KWH price is pretty high compared to most places, and I'd estimate that it's $15-$20 more per month. I don't mind spending $15-$20 more a month, to end up with ounces of weed, lol. It sure beats buying ounce bags, like I used to do before.

 

[kmanislanders3]

I came up with $4?? Is there a certain light that will only use 0.15/ hr. I see thats the watts the bulb says, but is that efficient. If I use an ave of 15hrs ( 1/2 time at 18hrsveg and 12 hrs flower) this is 450 hrs/mo x .15 is only 67.5 kw/ month?? It's like there's gotta be a catch? That watermelon added hundreds to my bill? Thanks again...Does $4 sound right??

 

[Lemon]

$4 is possible. Running a 150w on 12/12 would cost me $3.24 per month (but power is cheap in the land of the mounties and polar bears :smile.

is only 67.5 kw/ month??

Your math is correct, but this number isn't kW per month, its kWh (kilowatt hours) per month. If you multiplied this number by the cost of electricity on your bill (measured in $/kWh), then your answer is correct.

I myself pay about $0.05/kwh


Perhaps you could elaborate on this "watermellon".

 

[cjk]

i got my vortex 4" and elf filter in today with a speed controller this thing is pretty damn quiet and still moves good air flow. i was scared away from the vortex because of people claiming how loud it was. it's definately loud without the controller but turned down to medium or low it works like a charm. i'll get pics up soon