120/240V, T104, 40amp with 8/3??

[20kw dreams]

Ay buddy, didn't see ya there. I'm out for the night is a second. I just put in a new veg area and it was a PITA for sure, and I did it while drinkin, so I', beat.

Here's those pics of my subs though

 

[20kw dreams]

Oh shit! I just now noticed the EQPT Ground! ****!

That juction box is grounded to neutral, now that I think about it. Unfortunately, I think that's all non-metallic connectors, and the sub or the gangs aren't grounded. The outlets would be to neutral, but I don't think the sub itself is at all. Can you guys tell by looking if those are non-metallic or not?

 

[TGT]

Thanks for the inside look! Unfortunately I can't help you out with this - I wish I could.

TGT

 

[cocktail frank]

i've explained why it is important to not use the neutral as a ground in many-a-thread here in this forum.
to avoid retyping it, click the link down here.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1176828&postcount=20

there is also my electrical safety link in my thread.
plenty of useful info there, please feel free to add something to it that you feel i missed.
we all need to help each other here

 

[In Vino Veritas]

So I need to put the 30A in my main panel. Run the wire (10/3 -4wirestotal) from there to the room (biggest problem right now, got to cut walls). Up in the room, power the new 70A panel (Cutler-Hammer: BR24L70SP). In this panel I will have 1 breaker - it's a 30/15/15 triplex. I will be running 2000W at 240v and 300W 120v off of it.

Yay's or Nay's??

 

[cocktail frank]

wtf is a triplex breaker?

 

[In Vino Veritas]

It looks like 4 single breakers stuck together. The outside left and right breakers are single 15A and the middle two are 30A with a dual throw.. You get 240 in the middle and 120 on the sides..http://www.sea.siemens.com/SpeedFax06/Speedfax06files/06Speedfaxpdfs/06Speedfax_01/01_25.pdf

Only one of those fits in my little 70A sub panel..

 

[packn2puff]

Cocktail Frank..Duplex breakers fit 2 breakers per slot, Triplex is 2 duplexes stacked with a 2 pole in the middle and a single pole on each side and only uses two slots..
so you get 1-120v on L1, 240V in the middle L1-L2 and 1-120v on L2..
Quadplex..same as the triplex except they tie the outside breakers together too, so you get 2-240V 2 pole but only use two slots..
20k is using Duplex breakers in that pic..6 breakers in 3 slots

20K..yeah you got that panel a bit off..electrically it will work..but right now slightly unsafe..but if you want to do it right I'll lay it out..
From the main you needed 3 wire (contains actually 4 conductors but green or bare..EQPT ground is not counted)..
Black L1 from the main panel 2 pole breaker to L1 or A in the sub..Red L2 from the main panel 2 pole breaker to L2 or B in the sub..
White N from the main Neutral bus to N in the sub..(no bonding required at the sub..N stays isolated)..
Green or Bare Ground from the main Equipment Ground bus to the subs Equipment bus
(Which you don't have installed..goes on the left like you saw..looks just like the Neutral bus but attaches to the panel looks like they even gave you the screw holes to bolt it down)..
From the sub to the receptacles generally most would just use Black, White, and Green..
Black hot from the breaker to the golden screw on the outlet (also it is the small slot on the plug)(you could just use your red wire)..
White from the N bus to the silver screw(also it is the longer slot on the plug)..
Green from the EQPT bus to the green screw(also is the doghouse pin on plug)( note if you look at a plug side view..the ground is always the longest so it's first to make contact)..
In your case if the panel was wired right and grounded..and using spec outlets(little spring wire hold the mount screws)..
even if not you are using industrial covers on your outlets..and you have a complete metal path back to the sub..you don't have to run a ground wire from the sub to the outlet..that's OK even by code..
metal raceways count as a ground path..So you don"t need an EQPT ground bus bar..
just the green wire from main panel EQPT bus to the sub panel case
Right now your ground conductor from sub to main is acting as the neutral..which electrically works but is big no no as far as code and overall safety..
It's no momentary charge but continuous alternating current..also connecting your neutral and ground at the outlet is called a "false ground" also a big no no..

Hope that helps..let me post this..then I will get to you IVV..

 

[packn2puff]

IVV..it sounds like you're pretty much set..when I said "continuous load" ..if a load is on for longer than 3 hours it is continuous..
you take the maximum current rating times 125% and call that number your load..look on the ballast for the current rating at which voltage level..
ohms law is close but not as good as using the current rating..voltage on a ballast effects current through the wire..
At 240VAC on a 1000W ballast..is about 4 something Amps..call it 5A for a little derating..at 120V it would be around 10A..
I'm estimating high..but close enough..
So if you are running 2 - 1000W ballasts at 240V and a fan on the 120V ..you are doing fine..
As Voltage goes up current goes down by the same proportion (inversely proportional..part of ohms law)..
most grow light magnetic ballasts have different taps on the transformer or a slide switch 125v:250v..
if no switch then you have to disconnect and cap the 120V connection and connect the hot(say L1..1 breaker) to the 240V connection ..(you may see a 208V & 277V wire..these are commercial connections)..
COM goes to the other hot of the 240V..(L2..other breaker)..ground to ground..no neutral..if the ballast has a plug and you cut it off and put a 240V plug on ..
the L1 & L2 backwards doesn't matter..
since you chose 30A breakers and for the 240V you need to use 250V/30A receptacles and plugs and use #10 AWG (10/2) to wire receptacles..receptacles and wire need to be 30A rated if a 30A breaker is used
what ever cord came with the ballast is suitable for the plug side..standard type receptacle NEMA # is 6-30R..looks like this (-.-) ..twist-lock type is L6-30R..

That's it I'm wiped out..hope that helps..

 

[In Vino Veritas]

hey packnpuff, thanks for the all the advice.

I was actually planning on using regular 120V 15A receptacles.. All of my ballasts have 120v extension cords for their connection. So the ballasts are wired for 240V - but we use 120V male 12/2 extension cords to plug em in. If that makes sense...I've always run them like this. I always had someone who did my electrical though..

 

[Guest]

I also use 120V receptacles and keep original 120V cord caps.It deletes a splice which is always the weakest part of any system and I can go back to 120V easily.You may want to reconsider using cheap 15A resi receptacles though and use commercial or industrial grade 20A 120V receptacles.

 

[In Vino Veritas]

I also use 120V receptacles and keep original 120V cord caps.It deletes a splice which is always the weakest part of any system and I can go back to 120V easily.You may want to reconsider using cheap 15A resi receptacles though and use commercial or industrial grade 20A 120V receptacles.

That makes good sense, and perfectly cool by me. I'll get some industrial 20amp receptacles..

Running this wire is SUCH a bitch! I took apart my main, no ****in' conduit! Everything is just running around the walls, and it's not all romex. Since it's a two story I'm having problems getting from the main, up to the attic then back down into the closet. I've cut quite a few holes and have decided to go from the attic down.. I'm hoping with all the holes I've made my view from up there will be different. Not really sure what else I could do?

Should I try with the 10/3, or should I use 14g wire to do the initial run, then pull the romex through?

 

[Guest]

If you can push the 10/3 through from the attic,thats best.You may have to drop a weight on a string.Do you have access to a knockout hole to bring your wire in?Some times dropping a string with a weight(non-metallic or taped!) is the way to go,other times you can fish a single 12 or 14 gauge wire first.

 

[Lucky U]

Man this is alot of info that I do not have any idea about, but would like to more about. Is there a way that anyone could piont me in the direction of more info and step-by-step instructions for assembly. Thanks

 

[In Vino Veritas]

I'm going to build my load center soon, I'm going to take pictures and post it in here. For the most part it will provide a reference when wiring, but really almost everyones setups are different and a little preference plays role in placement.

I feel you though.. Read it over once more, give me some time..

 

[Lucky U]

Please dont let this thread die guys, I am sure there are a bunch of us out here that need the info.

 

[In Vino Veritas]

Camera is working, and I got about 7-10 days before I can crank up the HIDs, for a person like me that means the electrical needs to be setup in the next 10-15 days.. Stay put, I haven't forgot..

 

[Lucky U]

Thanks!!!

 

[In Vino Veritas]

It's about ****ing time!

It's about ****ing time!

Why?


Load center, unwired - I tried to keep it as open as possible so it's easy to work with and easier to document/read for you guys..


Left side is the 70A sub (2 space, 4 circuit). Right side is the T104 timer, wired for 240V. Orange cable from main is 10/3 (3 conductor, 1 ground). Yellow cable from sub to timer is 12/2 (2 conductor, 1 ground - 20A rating).


The sub is powered from the main by a 30A double pole breaker. Black to the left leg, Red to the right leg, White to the neutral bar, and the bare wires to the Ground bar (still need to get that in there).

The timer is wired for 240v and I used the instructions it came with..to keep it neat I used the left leg for line 1 and the right leg for line 2, ground is to the green screw.

Alright that's where I'm at i'm working on it as we post, and I want to make a couple of points here..

I'll only be running 2000W through the timer on 240v - that is why I went with 12/2. It's rated for 20amp it'll be hard to pull 12 on start up then it should drop down to 9-10. Also note the ground bar is not installed in the sub! I still have to do that also. Later today on the next update I should have pictures of the main, and also the 240 outlets ready. After that it will be on to the 120V. What kind of breaker is that in my sub? A triplex breaker, 3 circuits on one breaker takes two slots. The middle is my 240, 30A and the right and left are my 120V 15A.

 

[Lucky U]

Keepem coming, I am still learning but this is helping!!! My problem is my ballist are on 120v not 240v and I need to have everything wired for 120v.