12/1 lighting--Any truth or banana in the tail pipe?

[badmf]

Came across Joe's articles in a few places as of late and wanted to get some opinions of what others think, specially if anyone has actually tried it. Seen Joe mention this method in Skunk mag, Treating yourself, and somewhere else. This is a copy and paste from TY, thoughts please?



Grow Bigger and Better,Saving 30-50% on your energy cost!

By Joe Pietri

The biggest innovator in the history of cannabis in my generation is Reinhard Delp. Not only did he invent and holder of the patent for ice water extraction, he has been building flower forcers since 1992. His new solar powered Sun-gate is the leader of the industry. He was the first to feminize seeds and sell them in Europe in the late 90’s. His process was done naturally, without the use of any chemicals.

No one is more copied but seldom matched than Mr. Delp, who to me is the top grower of our generation.

The first time he impressed me he showed me 2 plants, planted next to one another, 1 completely covered in powdery mildew, the other completely clean and beautiful.
He was developing mildew and mold resistant genetics.

In the late 90’s Reinhard brought back the gas lantern routine that you find in any college grade horticulture book, and applied it to cannabis. Cannabis needs only 13 hours to stay in growth state. The 18-6 lighting in growth pattern, actually stress your plants, that never get that much light in one-day outdoors. Cannabis is an outdoor plant. Growing indoors you should copy how it grows outdoors.

No Cannabis growing in Afghanistan gets 18 hours of light in growth pattern. Most strains today have some part Indica in their genetic pool. Even equatorial strains don’t get 18 hours of sun a day.

12-1 lighting is as follows: 12 hours lights on, 5.5 lights off, 1-hour lights on, 5.5 lights off, and repeat schedule. The 1 hour on in between off period fools the plants that stay in growth state!

Your immediate savings is 5 hours in energy costs daily, as well as your bulbs and equipment lasting longer. But how do the plants react to this lighting schedule?

You see immediate growth response from your plants, they are happy from the added rest time. By day 14 the plants tripled in size. The plants are bushy with twice as many bud sites without topping or bending, In fact, when you top and stretch your plants out, you get many more bud sites than you would have had under 18-6 using same procedure of topping and stretching plant, your growing bigger and better and faster.

So you're saving 5 hours daily in energy costs, as well as your accelerated growth pattern which also saves you time and energy and equipment use.

In the growth cycle, never use 12-12, start your flowering period at 11 hours on 13 hours off. When your are growing outdoors each day you get less and less sun light, you should copy the way the sun acts naturally in your indoor grow. So first 2 weeks of flower you go 11 on 13 off, the next 2 weeks you go down to 10.5 on 13.5 off, next 2 weeks 10 on 14 off, next two weeks 9.5 on 14.5 off and the last weeks of flower you should be at 9 hours on and 15 hours off. You’ll get bigger and better buds by copying the way the sun light works on cannabis outdoors.

Cannabis is an outdoor plant and you should copy the way it grows outdoors indoors. The only thing that 18-6, and then 12-12 do is make the energy companies rich as well as the people who sell lights and equipment, the more you use the more you spend. 12-1 is a more natural way to grow indoors and you well have the best results you have ever had and save as much as 50% in energy costs.

Something to think about for sure but would only work if you are doing your flowering plants in batches. Many growers do, so anyone want to try this and get back to us?

Might be good for folks who have smart meters hooked up. Not so likely to flag suspicious energy usage patterns and if it saves a buck so much the better.

I did "Time Shifting " way back and its been copied denied etc but just to set it straight, I did it to 36 on 12 off and then went back to 4on 12 off to equal out the days. The advantage is more light hours during peak budset times and less near the end which doesn't give much to yeild but more to maturity anyways. Itwas diffficult the first time as there weren't diigtal timers! This was on OG long ago. I've seen folks discover it lol, over and over. Peace Badmf

 

[wildgrow]

Thanks for adding to the thread Badmf. cheers

 

[Granger2]

Just a report...
I'm entering week 4 of 12/12 with a crop that I vegged with 12/1, using a 600w HPS for the 12, and 2 13w cfl's for the 1 hour in a 3x3. I did get a less pronounced stretch with Sensi NL5xHaze, Big Buddha Cheese, Barney's Tangerine Dream, Barney's Vanilla Kush, and Delicious Critical Jack Herer [free seed, and guessing about the stretch since I haven't grown it before, but it is a sativa].

The free Delicious Critical Yumbolt plant had to be cut back and is still quite a bit taller than the others, and only stopped bolting about 5 days ago. Since I haven't grown it before I can't compare the stretch factor.

As far as quicker onset of bloom, I can't say if 12/1 made a difference, maybe a little. Otherwise this crop is doing beautifully. -granger

 

[DGSIX]

I'll tell you what. MY first set of genetics didn't like this one bit, but, the past few months my veg room has been on 12/1 and all my plants are bushy as all get out. Entering the second week of flower with some that grew their life cycle on 12/1 and I have noticed zero stretch. Got a buddy on 12/1 with limited space now too and he's loving it, especially the number of tops your plants produce with a little training and this light cycle.

Overall assessment, just try it yourself! Plants can handle just about anything you throw at em, worst case scenario you save some money for a bit and see if your plants veg well in 12/1.

 

[Lammy]

I noted that it took at about 5 weeks of veg at 12+1 before the stretch in flower was affected.

I moved a couple plants into flower about 3-4 weeks after starting the 12+1 veg cycle. The flowering lights were left high and the plants stretched like mad to reach them.

Two weeks later I moved the same clones into flower under the same high lights. This time no stretch. None. The plants maybe finished 2" taller than they started. They just fattened up.

I kinda miss the stretch. Just a little. I like the light schedule. The plants grow quick enough and my veg lights run opposite the flower room, for the most part anyway.

I use all 1000w HPS lamps.

PS I don't think flower time was effected at al.

 

[avant gardener]

it seems like there's a lot of cats with not very much reputation and even fewer pictures who are stammering on about how this is The Next Big Thing. how many of you are seeing smashing results using the tried and true method and are just looking to improve on it? probably not most of the folks posting here.

can we get some credible, substantiated evidence that this thing works or just move on already?

 

[supermanlives]

ya that^^^^^^^^^. and theres no way in hell i believe turning on and off several times daily is better for my bulbs and ballasts .

 

[MrGreenWeed]

If 12/1 worked everybody would be doing it by now.

Before I began growing again I got a lot of technical data on different things, and a techhead that works at a large equipment sales company I talked with said that the life of both a bulb and ballast are all about length of use and the amount of times it has been turned on and off. If you wish to go through bulbs and ballasts at a good clip use this silly 12/1 schedule.
It would be nice to save on the electric bill but there is zero science that this type of light cycle works.
18/6 to 12/12. There is no reason for anything else.

 

[Granger2]

Avant Gardener,
I haven't done a side by side, and don't intend to. I made a report on my limited experience, claiming little. Never said it was the "Next Big Thing." What would satisfy you as "credible and substantiated" evidence? Move on? You mean end the thread? And yes. I'm always looking for ways to improve. That's why I frequent ICMag forums, and why I tried 12/1.

Supermanlives,
My ballasts/lamps were turned on and off once a day. I used 2 13w cfl's for the 1 hour on.

Mr. GreenWeed,
Silly, eh? And it's laughable to say that if it worked, everyone would be using by now. Probably only those with an open mind would use it. So, not everyone. What do you mean "works?" It does work in that the plants are held in veg, while using 1/3 less electricity, 1/3 less lamp generated heat to cool w/AC, and 1/3 fewer hours on the bulb and ballast, lengthening their lives.

For that, if nothing else, I'm happy with the 12/1 method. In my set up, I don't need more veg growth, and I intend to take this crop all the way using 12/12, rather than what some are doing with an ever shorter bloom day length, since it affects yield.

The way I see it is I saved more than 1/3 on electricity [+26w for 1 hour], more easily controlled height during veg, had less stretch on the strains I've grown before, and probably also on the ones I haven't. I consider that very worthwhile. Enough benefit to warrant using this method again. Good luck. -granger

 

[wildgrow]

I dont think anyone here has claimed 'smashing results'. But whats wrong w/ experimenting? If we all just hold the line, how do we progress? Everyone on IC had very little rep when they 1st got on. Yes, most of us who have tried this are newbs. Am I to suppose that others where born w/ the knowledge to grow weed? I cant, doesnt happen. Who ever can critisize all they want, but lets try to keep it constructive. There is a learning curve to all this and we ALL had to go through it (continue to go through it). Ive abanded this 12/1 (14/1) lighting schedule. I was looking for a way to use less power. Now I run 100 w cfl for 3 hours, 400 w mh for 12, and then back to the cfl for 3 more. Im saving on power and retaining the tried n true 18 hr veg time. cheers

 

[Granger2]

wildgrow,
Your variation is another imaginative way to save energy. Keep experimenting. I've noticed for years that growers, in general, are an innovative bunch. -granger

 

[MrGreenWeed]

My extent of experimenting was using T5 lights from seedling to mid veg instead of MH. It works well by creating tighter nodes and saved some money.
12/1 not only weakens a plant in veg when compared to 18/6, but it cuts the life of bulbs and ballasts.
I don't see much sense in experimenting too long with this idea.
I'm all for advancement and new tech in horticulture, but 12/1 seems silly.
I'll quit being a pessimist and add something. I always thought mimicking nature is best. like most. So wouldn't one maybe find some stats, say of northern Cali, and find the best years for crops. Then see how many days of sun and clouds those seasons had and average those out and invent a system that creates cloudiness and occasional rain not including actual feedings.
Is it possible yet to create an actual environment like that?
I once watched a professor recreate a mini "perfect storm" in a giant tank and it was pretty awesome. I just think we are not thinking. At least not enough, when it comes to indoor growing advancements.
Yes I am very high. I mixed some LSD with some Strawberry Blue and scissors hash from the last harvest and I feel inventy.

Marijuana doesn't lead to other drugs, it leads to carpentry! -Dennis Leary.

 

[Granger2]

MrGreenWeed,
The way I did 12/1, it lengthened the life of my ballast/bulb. Is it "silly" to do that? -granger

 

[avant gardener]

i feel compelled to respond.

whats wrong w/ experimenting? If we all just hold the line, how do we progress?

first of all, it's absurd to suggest that i'm railing people for experimenting. read through my posts if you doubt that. huzzah for innovation. i don't think any reasonable person could have a problem with folks devising newer and better ways of doing things. i'm really grateful that there are cats out there who can afford to fuck around with newfangled lighting schemes, techniques, supplements, etc. that goes double since i don't happen to be in that position myself, most of the time. let's just try to be objective and empirical about it.

Yes, most of us who have tried this are newbs.

right on. again, i'm glad you have the flexibiltiy to try this. it's really helpful to the cats who are sort of set in their ways to see other people trying stuff and having it work. if you're trying something new and it works, consider attaching some sort of documentation. it doesn't matter if yours is an established, trusted opinion around here (although that might afford you some leeway) or if it's your first post.

What would satisfy you as "credible and substantiated" evidence?

dude, what part of my last post did you not understand? there is one person in here who has posted pictures. the results are nothing special. he's the only one. there are also a handful of folks who have said how great 12/1 is, but provide not a shred of evidence to back up the claim. it's telling that most of them are new.

most of the more reasonable claims here are that 12/1 results in plants that are throwing hairs in veg (which in my experience often means they'll throw nanners in flower), that don't finish any sooner, that YIELD LESS FLOWERS, and that, depending on the techinique, may thrash your bulbs and ballasts (I'm won't be using 13 watt flouros on anything but my desk lamp, thanks).

virtually every heavy hitter who has weighed in here— anti, stighno, superman, bobby stainless, etc.— has either asked for more documentation or has called bullshit, straight up. you will notice there's not a single person running a 10, 25, or 50 light grow who is suggesting that 12/1 is a good idea. i'd be more inclined to believe someone who stands to turn a $3000 electrical bill into a $2000 one than someone who is saving $3.28 in a closet grow. you do the math sir:

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

Move on? You mean end the thread?

yeah, move on to trying something new since it's pretty well established at this point that 12/1 isn't viable. or you can stay here posting stuff that's going to mislead beginners and other folks who might not know any better. your call. i'm done with it though. un-subscribed.


peace out fellas!

 

[Granger2]

> yeah, move on to trying something new since it's pretty well established at this point that 12/1 isn't viable

AvantGardener,
Pretty well extablished? The burden of proof is on you now.

> i'm done with it though. un-subscribed.

Your call. Probably better since you have a closed mind. Nobody's trying to get you to go to 12/1.

I can post pics, and will, but what do pics prove? I can't think of a way to "prove" that I didn't use 18/6 or some other lighting scheme. Day starts at 10 pm CDT, so I'll take a few pics then. -granger

 

[Granger2]

>PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

Actually, green light and a flash works better than I thought. Color match is way better than HPS, pretty close.

3X3, 600w air cooled HPS, 9 plants in 3 gal Aerobags Canna Coco w/20% perlite, Sealed room, CO2, AC, dehumidifier starts tomrrow.

Big Buddha Cheese end of 4 weeks, after veg in 12/1

 

[MrGreenWeed]

I love to see those pics but every time I click on them it goes to my pics, strange.

Pics are good and all but anyone can put up a picture of a plant and make up stuff about how old it is or what lighting they used. Not saying you are lying, I don't think you are. What works for you works. I guess until I try 12/1 lighting myself I can't talk shit so I will not anymore.
So this next round, if I go with 12/1 and it turns out shit, will you compensate me for lost time? I'm kidding but you get my point. I guess growing can be a lot like investing and other things in life, sometimes risk pays off, and sometimes it doesn't.
I think just to satisfy my curiosity I will have to do a separate room with this lighting and see what happens.

 

[wildgrow]

right on. again, i'm glad you have the flexibiltiy to try this. it's really helpful to the cats who are sort of set in their ways to see other people trying stuff and having it work. if you're trying something new and it works, consider attaching some sort of documentation. it doesn't matter if yours is an established, trusted opinion around here (although that might afford you some leeway) or if it's your first post.

dude, what part of my last post did you not understand? there is one person in here who has posted pictures. the results are nothing special. he's the only one. there are also a handful of folks who have said how great 12/1 is, but provide not a shred of evidence to back up the claim. it's telling that most of them are new.

most of the more reasonable claims here are that 12/1 results in plants that are throwing hairs in veg (which in my experience often means they'll throw nanners in flower), that don't finish any sooner, that YIELD LESS FLOWERS, and that, depending on the techinique, may thrash your bulbs and ballasts (I'm won't be using 13 watt flouros on anything but my desk lamp, thanks).

virtually every heavy hitter who has weighed in here— anti, stighno, superman, bobby stainless, etc.— has either asked for more documentation or has called bullshit, straight up. you will notice there's not a single person running a 10, 25, or 50 light grow who is suggesting that 12/1 is a good idea. i'd be more inclined to believe someone who stands to turn a $3000 electrical bill into a $2000 one than someone who is saving $3.28 in a closet grow. you do the math sir:

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

+1 This ^^^ is all good stuff. Esp. the 1st paragraph. If someone would have said in the beginning of the thread that nanners would most likely come of this, I think this thread would have fizzled long ago.
Personally, for me, when I started growing I was on unemployment w/ a strict $100/ month electricity budget. Saving every penny possible was and still is a neccessity.

The only part of this that I dont agree w/ is 'pics or it didnt happen'. I didnt even have a camera until a short time ago (budget issues). A cam is not a needed part of growing. There are plenty of growers out there (the world in general) who wouldnt even 'step foot' into a growers forum, never mind posting pics of their shit. Having said that, I too would have trouble believing someone claiming to have a enormous warehouse grow if there werent any pics.

Im outta here too. Good luck to any and all who continue using 12/1 or any other experimental lighting varients. I welcome a pm from anyone who has 'great success' (words defined by the individual growers goals). cheers

Edit: Same here Mr greenweed, strange. Looks good Granger - any nanners?

 

[Guest 142956]

Lets see, tighter node intervals, less stretch, quicker start in flower, less cost, sounds like I will try it myself. The big point for me is the lower heat in the summer for veg when I am getting ready for the cooler temps. I will split the dark period with a 80 watts of T12 therefore easing the life of my 400 watt HPS.

 

[Granger2]

MrGreenWeed,
Kudos for having an open mind. I posted pics, saying ahead of time that they prove little. I'm sure the problem with them is my fault. Just got this camera, and I'm sure the screw up in putting them up was mine from inexperience. Instruction would be appreciated.

I totally understand anyone's reluctance to try things like this. It's not just academic, it can hit people where it hurts, in the pocket book. I would compensate you if I could, Mr, if it turns out bad.

No nanners yet. The nanner thing is pure speculation as far as I can see. This was only a report on progress so far. When the crop is in I'll report even if it's bad.

BTW, I would like to say for the record that some of the very best bud on the planet is grown by small growers. -granger

These work...
Big Buddha Cheese end of 4 weeks

Cheese in soil for side by side cntr


Barney's Tangerine Dream fem end of 4 weeks [11 weeks to maturity]